the whole surface area theory

[martnargh]

so for the past 2 or 3 years it has been generally accepted that the more wraps, the more surface area, the more flavor/vapor. i myself have even agreed with this but lately ive been thinking it basically comes down to heat generated rather than lthe dimensions of your coils.
few months ago i purchased this.

mad rabbit, 21g nichrome 90.
never been much into gimmicky wires, but was interested in this just because i wanted to try nichrome 90 and see what that was all about..
been trying a few things with it but resistance is so low really all i could do were some normal, oldskool, microcoils (or nano or whatever theyre called).
tonight i did this.

dont mind the sugary hues of brown already building up on this, pretty basic 6 wrap dual coil on a 3mm bit, sitting in the goon, on the rogue.

now, this isnt an invitation for the resistance nazis to tell me its too low for my hb4s, nevermind all that, but i should mention this build is really low. really really low.
anyway, since i cant sleep and im here vaping away, i came to the realization the shit tastes the same if not better than the 2x24ss/38kd i had in here previously, which only had a couple of hundredths higher of a resistance but had a much wider surface area.
any thoughts? could it just be the massive amount of heat generated by these tiny coils that produce amazing flavor and vapor, disreguarding that its such a tiny surface area? i think so.

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[inspects]

My experience is the same, an exotic coil isn't any better than a regular coil. I've tried just about every exotic coil available from some of the best builders....they may look purdy, that's where it ends for me anyway....no more exotic's for this vaper.

 

[HondaDavidson]

Well there's surface area and there's surface area.. Imo, you have to balance the surface area of the coil itself vs the surface area of wicking covered. Too big a coil is slow, too much wick keeps the coil too cool, slowing it even more. It is possible for a high surface area coil to have less juice available for vaping than a lower surface area coil, just by going to a spaced vs a contact coil. A spaced coil covers bring more wicking surface area into play. Same could be said for small vs large ID coils.

It's you face and your mod. You want to push the limits of safety, I really don't care. Survival of the fittest and all that. You, at least, acknowledge the risk and are considering it.

I just think all you people how "need" to vape at higher watts or lower than around .5ohms are crazy anyway. I will admit, my sanity is in question.... As, I just got my first regulated mod and am running a SS28 twisted coil at .3ohm. (running at less than 15watts in TC). My mech running same juice and attie, I would build at around .8-.9 (if not higher) in kanthal or nichrome to get a like vape. Yeah a really low build is fun once in awhile. Kinda in the way chugging beers and clouding up cars was, in the day. these days I'm more into sipping or puffing and savoring the flavors and feel of my vices.

 

[martnargh]

Well there's surface area and there's surface area.. Imo, you have to balance the surface area of the coil itself vs the surface area of wicking covered. Too big a coil is slow, too much wick keeps the coil too cool, slowing it even more. It is possible for a high surface area coil to have less juice available for vaping than a lower surface area coil, just by going to a spaced vs a contact coil. A spaced coil covers bring more wicking surface area into play. Same could be said for small vs large ID coils.

It's you face and your mod. You want to push the limits of safety, I really don't care. Survival of the fittest and all that. You, at least, acknowledge the risk and are considering it.

I just think all you people how "need" to vape at higher watts or lower than around .5ohms are crazy anyway. I will admit, my sanity is in question.... As, I just got my first regulated mod and am running a SS28 twisted coil at .3ohm. (running at less than 15watts in TC). My mech running same juice and attie, I would build at around .8-.9 (if not higher) in kanthal or nichrome to get a like vape. Yeah a really low build is fun once in awhile. Kinda in the way chugging beers and clouding up cars was, in the day. these days I'm more into sipping or puffing and savoring the flavors and feel of my vices.

i havent vaped over .5 in over 2 years... maybe more... my face is fine. even when i was doing these kinds of builds using shitty batteries, mostly due to lack of knowledge, since i wasnt using forums or internet for vape related things when i started, most of my experience was based on my own trial and error and what little shitty info i got from the vape shop guys from those days. never heard of a cell just spontaneously combusting. it needs to reach its peak temp for thermal runway to occur, if im wrong im all ears.
anyway, didnt want to turn this into the resistance battle thats been ongoing since mods started popping out, no need for any of that.
you like vaping higher resistances because you feel you get enough satisfaction? thats great. i dont. i build low.

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[HondaDavidson]

When I build for my regulated mod I build to a surface area target. I only consider ohm rate for mod safety function reasons. 75 tc mod with 25 amp . I will use about the same surface area on the coil for clouds vs flavor. But i will increase the wicking surface area via spacing when chasing flavor. And the more concentrated heating of contact coil for clouds.

Granted I also vape at much lower wattage than most and I prefer a draw with some resistence. I only mention my resistence levels to give perspective. I know from experience that some things that work at high power levels don't work the same at low levels and vice versa. Not as pissing match or safety policing. I am one of those that think we on these forums over do the safety warnings.. sometimes.. I only mentioned ohm rate because you brought battery safety into the conversation with your first post.





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[anen]

Surface area theory works well for regulated mods since the power can be adjusted up or down. On mech mod unless we build "hot" coils there will be no hot vape or Vape at all. What's the point of large surface area coils on the tube if it takes em 45sec just to heat up? "Draw" or the air intake is a deciding factor when it comes to how hot is that coil going to get as well. Coils that are in my Kennedy 24 are only 2mm ID but are running at 0.07 Ohm. Pounding hot dense flavorful vapor in large quantities.
If the coils are hot and wicking is good that "surface area" will be vaporized more then once on every hit since the wick keep bringing the liquid to the coils.
No, my batteries don't get even hot. HG2 are the only way to go.

 

[martnargh]

Surface area theory works well for regulated mods since the power can be adjusted up or down. On mech mod unless we build "hot" coils there will be no hot vape or Vape at all. What's the point of large surface area coils on the tube if it takes em 45sec just to heat up? "Draw" or the air intake is a deciding factor when it comes to how hot is that coil going to get as well. Coils that are in my Kennedy 24 are only 2mm ID but are running at 0.07 Ohm. Pounding hot dense flavorful vapor in large quantities.
If the coils are hot and wicking is good that "surface area" will be vaporized more then once on every hit since the wick keep bringing the liquid to the coils.
No, my batteries don't get even hot. HG2 are the only way to go.

good point, didnt really consider ramp up into the mix. but that definitely nails it.

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[ej1024]

Very interesting... I don't really buy to the surface area thang... whatever works for me, I'm good with that... I only used fused claptons in my tanks.. in my RDAS I use 22-24g ss 10 Wraps 316 3.0 ID ohming @.22 .24...
Smooth cloudy ,clean vape..
this works for me, and whatever works for you then VAPE ON!

 

[The Cromwell]

Another thing to consider with super low coils on mechs is battery sag. with a .2 with a single battery mech you will not be getting 88 watts due to battery sag. It will be more like 68 watts once battery voltage sag is figured in. And this is considering a GOOD battery not an efest or the like.

 

[gbalkam]

There is a trick to it. You want a nice large id coil so the wick can draw lots of juice into the coil. The trick is, building a coil wide enough and fast enough to not only heat up but burn that juice in under 3 seconds. I don't have any 22ga Nichrome to compare, but.. I can use 5 wraps of dual strand parallel nichrome 80, 24ga, dual coil. It comes in about 0.1 to 0.09 ohms. Advantage is 2 strands heat faster than 1 strand of 10 wrap, so both 5 wrap coils heat at the same time, dual coils mean I am getting 20 wraps, roughly (estimated) 33% more surface area on the wick, heating faster and burning juice like mad. You have to use higher resistance wire, to keep to a relatively safe resistance. Worth trying it out though I think, just to compare.

 

[gbalkam]

Another thing to consider with super low coils on mechs is battery sag. with a .2 with a single battery mech you will not be getting 88 watts due to battery sag. It will be more like 68 watts once battery voltage sag is figured in. And this is considering a GOOD battery not an efest or the like.

Ya know, I won't even give any suggestions or advice on cloud building if the person isn't using sony,samsung or lg. I know what those batteries are, I don't know what efest is. And considering they already failed QC tests from the factory, I wouldn't chance using them.