What is really, truly, seriously the SONY KILLER?

[VapedCrusader]

I've read about numerous different batteries that are supposedly the infamous 'Sony Killer'..

most of the posts I see never have any proof to back up these claims..it's usually 'I heard these were better' or 'the random guy i met outside the vape shop exclusively uses these ones for all his mods and they last WAY longer' ..

It seems like this is a way for places to charge much more for these batteries claiming they are just as good or better than the Sony's.. I have heard of vape shops selling some of these individually for 25-30$. I'm all for spending money on a decent battery, but only if it lives up to the hype and performs like it should.. especially with so many people sub-ohming.. safety should be a key factor.

So lets put all of this hoop-lah to rest shall we?

Name the battery you think stands up to the Sony's, and back up your claims the best way you can.

Ready.. Set.. Debate!

 

[M5amhan]

samsung 25r - 20amp continuous 100 amp under 1 second pulse spec sheet on bevapehappy website
IMREN 38a - word is they have rights to sony cell tech and are using it in their batteries

 

[Sully]

samsung 25r - 20amp continuous 100 amp under 1 second pulse spec sheet on bevapehappy website
IMREN 38a - word is they have rights to sony cell tech and are using it in their batteries

Sony is 30A contiunous and 150A pulse to 3 seconds.

There is no Sony killer. It's all nonsense. Sony blows EVERY other batteries specs out of the water.

 

[VapedCrusader]

Sony is 30A contiunous and 150A pulse to 3 seconds.

There is no Sony killer. It's all nonsense. Sony blows EVERY other batteries specs out of the water.

View attachment 6538

So what's the next best in your opinion?

 

[M5amhan]

i was just naming batteries that stand up to them. i know sonys are the best, im trying to find the link that says IMREN is using sony cells though

 

[VapedCrusader]

I think I need to add a list to the thread of all the current 18650 'alternatives' that are available and we can rate them from best to worst..

 

[Sully]

The EFEST 30A 2100mah is a Sony VTC4 with above specs. So there is that...If I had to pick which I like best after that, I guess I would go with the LGs (or Purple 35A EFEST) but the Samsungs are prob just as good.

 

[VapedCrusader]

I heard of a shop selling the VAMPED batteries and selling each one for 25$ .. saying they are better than the Sony's ..

 

[VapedCrusader]

The we have the new LG line of 18650's I keep hearing about..

 

[Sully]

I heard of a shop selling the VAPED batteries and selling each one for 25$ .. saying they are better than the Sony's ..

HA! Every review I've read on them pretty much says they suck and die extremely fast...

 

[VapedCrusader]

HA! Every review I've read on them pretty much says they suck and die extremely fast...

Yup.. same here.. I heard they are good for a couple charges and then it holds about half the life..

This is the problem.. people need to be more educated so shops can't try and take advantage like this..

Meanwhile they are probably getting the batteries for like 3$ in bulk and then selling them for 25$.. its outrageous.

 

[Sully]

Misleading specs too. Like people see a 35A EFEST and they call it 35A continuous discharge (they are actually 20A Continuous 35A pulse) By these measures I have 150A Sony's!!!

 

[VapedCrusader]

Misleading specs too. Like people see a 35A EFEST and they call it 35A continuous discharge (they are actually 20A Continuous 35A pulse) By these measures I have 150A Sony's!!!

LOL - exactly why I'm going to put something together for reference.. Manufacturer / Amps (continuous) / MAH / average price

I hear good things about the MNKE's .. but they are only 1500 mah from what i remember reading so that wouldn't really stack up compared to some others.. but i guess its worth keeping them in mind depending on the price of them

 

[Jhay64]

Imren 38a 2600mah I just got 2 using them currently they stand side by side to the vtc5s I own. I don't own testing equipment so no proper test,but longevity is imo comparable to the Sonys. I've used them as low as .15 and they seem fine. Don't heat up, no swelling. Seem legit. I asked for a spec sheet from the seller but didn't get a manufacturer spec sheet just a write up from the seller.

 

[VapedCrusader]

Imren 38a 2600mah I just got 2 using them currently they stand side by side to the vtc5s I own. I don't own testing equipment so no proper test,but longevity is imo comparable to the Sonys. I've used them as low as .15 and they seem fine. Don't heat up, no swelling. Seem legit. I asked for a spec sheet from the seller but didn't get a manufacturer spec sheet just a write up from the seller.

Interesting - have not heard too much about these yet.. since the sony's are the only true 30a batteries.. I assume these are not really 38amp?

 

[Sully]

Interesting - have not heard too much about these yet.. since the sony's are the only true 30a batteries.. I assume these are not really 38amp?

Yeah, still waiting to hear more on these. Mostly positive reviews though!

 

[VapedCrusader]

Need to find out more about the Samsung 25R's.. I had some pink samsungs awhile ago that came with my evics but not sure if they are the same thing or not

 

[dre]

25r are way better then my vtc4 more vape time and the same feel in my mech never tried the 5's


*I always have to edit my post auto correct always messes up

 

[VapinChevy]

Just Be Cautious!!! ALL Battery Companies Lie about Amperage!!! SONY / MNKE's are the BEST!!! But Like My Purple Efest 35A Batteries (Even though they are re-wraps) is NOT 35A, it's actually @30A... Just saying BE SAFE, NOT Sorry

 

[VapedCrusader]

Just Be Cautious!!! ALL Battery Companies Lie about Amperage!!! SONY / MNKE's are the BEST!!! But Like My Purple Efest 35A Batteries (Even though they are re-wraps) is NOT 35A, it's actually @30A... Just saying BE SAFE, NOT Sorry

Yup - exactly why I made this thread

and why I'm going to get a list together with the actual amperage and mah ratings for all the popular 18650's so that people can be educated..

I think newer vapers are being misled in several aspects about batteries which is only going to lead to more accidents.. especially now with the Sony's going away and all of these newer untested batteries coming out.

 

[VapinChevy]

Yup - exactly why I made this thread

and why I'm going to get a list together with the actual amperage and mah ratings for all the popular 18650's so that people can be educated..

I think newer vapers are being misled in several aspects about batteries which is only going to lead to more accidents.. especially now with the Sony's going away and all of these newer untested batteries coming out.

Excellent @VapedCrusader . I can't wait to see the Actual Amperage's & mAh Ratings... Thank You

 

[Liu]

Efest 35A purples are LG/Samsung re-wraps. 20A Cont, 35A "pulse" but that pulse duration is unknown. Could be 30 seconds, could be .5 seconds....

Efest have a RED 30A battery, 1600 ma/h. Specs match the VTC3 exactly, and though I've not cut the wrapper to be sure, I'd put money on them being Sony re-wraps too.

MNKE are 20A Cont, 1500 ma/h. Decent batteries, I rotate through a few on my "not stupidly built" RDAs. I wouldn't push them past 40A on a pulse build though. (And I don't recommend people build to pulse rating anyway)

Literally everything I've heard about the IMREN is user hype. "I bought a 600$ battery tester and the internal resistance makes Sony cry" kind of shit but at no time was this person willing to provide hard numbers on anything. Seems to be the case everywhere online too, nobody can come up with a spec sheet. Same with the EFAN (which I believe are the same cell as IMREN, wrapped differently, they advertise similar, if not identical specs).

I know much of what I've said doesn't constitute good science, either, or really help line up an alternative battery. That's kind of why I did it though, I see and hear too much about people just switching over to LG, or Purple, or whatever, and treating them exactly as they did the VTC, without having a single bit of solid data on their limitations.

Right now, what it comes down to, if you don't have a stash of VTC hiding somewhere, you have a 20A battery, or worse. Everything is being re-wrapped and advertised by an ill-defined "pulse" rating.

 

[Lefty]

The only Sony killer is Sony itself for being in short supply for whatever reason. Hopefully the rumors of a new plant turn out true. I have 4 VTC5's 2 VTC4's and a stray 1500 MNKE that I got for free. I'm hoping that will do me until this situation resolves.

 

[Liu]

The new plant on Singapore is happening, that's not an issue. And I believe the recovery and rebuild of the plant on Japan is still underway. The question is whether Sony is going to resume selling them in a manner that makes them available to us.

 

[Lefty]

AFAIK Sony never made any kind of effort to make them available to us. Intermediaries saw the market and sourced them through OEM sales channels is the story I've heard. If the stock is being made then you would think that those who have done this in the past would continue to do so. Time will tell.

 

[Jackson]

Sony is 30A contiunous and 150A pulse to 3 seconds.

There is no Sony killer. It's all nonsense. Sony blows EVERY other batteries specs out of the water.

View attachment 6538

That chicken scratch you posted is supposed to prove something? LOL, that's funny. First off Sony is a very minor player in worldwide sales with a rather insignificant 8% share. They are a has-been company that is long past it's prime. It's almost impossible to find any Sony products being sold in Japan these days. And where does this 30A bullcrap come from?

The latest VTC5 datasheet I've seen has dropped any mention of 30A and never was a 'continuous' rating ever listed, even in the previous one. Trouble in paradise?

http://www.intaste.de/community/dtf/technical_information.pdf

Also note the 'will acquire UL1642', which is a very comprehensive set of tests regarding battery safety.

Sony also has the most dismal safety record of any manufacturer out there, bar none, having had to recall 10 + million 18650s (fire and heat issues) and disposing of another 43 million tainted, unsafe 18650s. And just this year Sony has had to recall 3000 laptops, again due to unsafe battery problems. They should be called SonyFire.

There are many reasons why Samsung SDI for the last 5 years has been #1 in worldwide sales (LG is #2). Proven reliability over the long haul for one. They are also the first choice in the HD pro-line cordless tool market, Milwaukee and DeWalt have been using Samsung for years. A proven safe, top performer. A reputation earned, not alluded to by the 'new breed' of vapers impressed by unverifiable, made up specs.

 

[Sully]

That chicken scratch you posted is supposed to prove something? LOL, that's funny. First off Sony is a very minor player in worldwide sales with a rather insignificant 8% share. They are a has-been company that is long past it's prime. It's almost impossible to find any Sony products being sold in Japan these days. And where does this 30A bullcrap come from?

The latest VTC5 datasheet I've seen has dropped any mention of 30A and never was a 'continuous' rating ever listed, even in the previous one. Trouble in paradise?

http://www.intaste.de/community/dtf/technical_information.pdf

Also note the 'will acquire UL1642', which is a very comprehensive set of tests regarding battery safety.

Sony also has the most dismal safety record of any manufacturer out there, bar none, having had to recall 10 + million 18650s (fire and heat issues) and disposing of another 43 million tainted, unsafe 18650s. And just this year Sony has had to recall 3000 laptops, again due to unsafe battery problems. They should be called SonyFire.

There are many reasons why Samsung SDI for the last 5 years has been #1 in worldwide sales (LG is #2). Proven reliability over the long haul for one. They are also the first choice in the HD pro-line cordless tool market, Milwaukee and DeWalt have been using Samsung for years. A proven safe, top performer. A reputation earned, not alluded to by the 'new breed' of vapers impressed by unverifiable, made up specs.

I didn't see anywhere in that link where it's discredits the specs I posted above. It just doesn't have the continuous or pulse specs included.

I have seen that image on vendor sites and all over forums and the web, but your right, it doesn't look very official, but that's all we've got to go on.

I can understand if you don't like Sony's. As with all high drain batteries caution should always be used, defective units can come from any manufacturer.

EDIT: EFEST Re-wraps the VTC4 batteries and they spec those at 30A Continuous and 60A Pulse (up to 75 seconds). So we have that...

 

[Cloudy Peak Vapes]

I'm digging my LG's, but I've made that clear. I build at 1.2 usually, and at that resistance they perform with no perceivable difference to my VTC5's. I'm not remotely pushing them, though. Since I don't build low typically, I will and can wait patiently for more Sony's, if they ever do re appear. Hopefully the Sony's will resurface in time, or a comparable battery will be released. I'd guess one if not both of those things will occur.

I'm all for having the best batts possible, with plenty of headroom, hence my 3.5 amp build and 30 and 20 amp continuous batteries. I think for most people the LG's and Samsungs are viable and solid options, but if you build super low, those extra amps and pulse rate are needed.

 

[VapedCrusader]

added the main 18650's that everyone seems to be raving about.. there were a few that I could not find verified amperage.. or just didn't spend enough time researching (apparently my boss does want me to work sometimes) - so that should give a better idea for right now.. I'll update whenever I can find more info or someone hits me with some additional knowledge

 

[dre]

Samsung 25r. 22amp continuous 2500mah

buy my ipv2 $65 in nj

 

[VapedCrusader]

Samsung 25r. 22amp continuous 2500mah

buy my ipv2 $65 in nj

I will have to find the links, but i keep seeing 20.. got a link to where it shows 22?

and I'm probably buying the Sig 100 watt for an extra 40$ before I get a used ipv2

 

[dre]

Steam-engine.org its a 8.8c so its 22 under the presets

buy my ipv2 $65 in nj

 

[dre]

I've seen a spec sheet from Samsung I'm trying to find it again but either way the pulse is 35 so 20 or 22

buy my ipv2 $65 in nj

 

[Rayboy55]

What about Subohmcell 18650 batteries
Subohmcell 18650 35amp 2800 mAh Battery this is from kidney puncher review!!!
Sony VTC5 killer

Posted by Rick B. on 24th Sep 2014

I got tierd of not being able to find any vtc5 's in stock at my trusted online vape shops and after seeing how these rated in kidney puncher's battery comparison I gave them a try and I'am so glad I did These blow my vtc5 's out of the water they hit harder and can handle a lower ohm coil then my sony's coils.
With that being said please be safe people and use your ohms law when sub-ohming.

 

[BornInBlood]

Hey folks,
i just discovered these IMREN batts are sister brand of MNKE:
"These are innovated battery design by E-one Moli Energy, Canada. Combining with Japan advance technology for the highest capacity in its class."
I often heard about MNKE having specially licensed patents, who wants to no more should contact that named company.

 

[VapedCrusader]

What about Subohmcell 18650 batteries
Subohmcell 18650 35amp 2800 mAh Battery this is from kidney puncher review!!!
Sony VTC5 killer

Posted by Rick B. on 24th Sep 2014

I got tierd of not being able to find any vtc5 's in stock at my trusted online vape shops and after seeing how these rated in kidney puncher's battery comparison I gave them a try and I'am so glad I did These blow my vtc5 's out of the water they hit harder and can handle a lower ohm coil then my sony's coils.
With that being said please be safe people and use your ohms law when sub-ohming.

Interesting - will have to check these out!

 

[Sully]

Interesting - will have to check these out!

Expensive and largely unavailable. If the stats are for real, these could possibly be a Sony Killer! I have a feeling that they could be re-wrapped Sony's, LG's or Samsung's but that's just speculation...Kidney Punchers tests show it noticeably out performing a VTC5.

 

[VapedCrusader]

Expensive and largely unavailable. If the stats are for real, these could possibly be a Sony Killer! I have a feeling that they could be re-wrapped Sony's, LG's or Samsung's but that's just speculation...Kidney Punchers tests show it noticeably out performing a VTC5.

lol yea a quick search netted none available for purchase at a couple places..

 

[Lefty]

http://www.vaporvortex.com/subohmcell-2800mah-18650-battery
http://vaporice.com/product/subohmcell-18650-inr-35a-2800mah/

 

[Liu]

Hey folks,
i just discovered these IMREN batts are sister brand of MNKE:

"These are innovated battery design by E-one Moli Energy, Canada. Combining with Japan advance technology for the highest capacity in its class."
I often heard about MNKE having specially licensed patents, who wants to no more should contact that named company.

I don't think that's right. MNKE are made by Jiangsu Eastdye in mainland China, while E-Moli (If they're the ones used by IMREN) are a joint Singapore/Canada company, manufacturing both in Canada and Singapore. Imren itself are a Shinzen based E-cig distributer. They don't make anything themselves, they brand or re-brand and ship it on.

Imren might be E-moli cells, but it's not a sister company any more than Efest is a sister company to LG or Sony.

 

[Sigmardin]

I have 1 IMREN 37A 2600mah green battery and the first few times I used it were great. It seems to have a great continuous output and I do notice a slight difference from the 35A purple EFEST.
On the other hand, I've noticed since I started using it, I get less of a charge now than I did the first week or so. I'd say the batteries capacity has decreased by maybe 20-25% of its original.
Final thought on that: I can't find EFEST 35A or Sony VTC5 anywhere around here, but I know a guy who's got a nice supply of IMREN @ $9 each so at least I'll be powered if my current supply dies any time soon lol.

I'm comparing only to my other 4 batteries which are all 35A purple EFEST

 

[MKPM]

This will truly kill any and all Sonys

 

[Sigmardin]

This will truly kill any and all Sonys

This might do it, but I think a tsunami or hurricane would do quite fine.

 

[StrappedKaos]

Another aspect of this discussion-
I dont always consider the max output useful for me as I vape .4-.6 builds but this is something to consider. When I get in front of a computer tomm. I can post the info in detail, the thing to remember is that the 18650's have a range between 4.2-3.5 and that is very important for vapers like myself. I.E. I have seen the candle power match ups of a good portion of the top batts. We use and the vtc4/lg/fest all have wonderful ratings in the 4.2-3.9 range but thats where it ends. The longest life of the battery is 3.8-3.6 and holds longer at 3.7 then any other voltage. Taking that into consideration the 25r/20r are the strongest performers in that range and for me it is the most important range. The first .3 volts on the battery is the fastest thru out the cycle and for cloud chaser/low ohm guys its worth noting the vtc/lg/fest put out more usable power and lower resistance in that small time, but then they drop off rather fast and are noticeable. The 25r/20r come on weaker at the first .3 volts but carry the density much better and longer down till 3.4 amd their is not a noticeable drop off like in the other cells.
Its worth considering because it is said the 20r has a very high pulse rating and paired with the consistency of the delivery it can make a difference, especially to those that vape above .2ohms. I do have the info to back this up just cant while on phone as easy, will have to search for it when on desktop.
Also worth noting, the inr technology is still in its infancy as of now. Since it is being pushed by avionics/hybrid car manufacturers I see big gains coming in the future, its drawback has always been density compared to imr but that is changing. Even the nanotube technology is becoming more prevalent and will offer up newer materials and cathode selection in the future. Good times for battery junkies we are living in.

 

[MKPM]

I never really paid close attention to battery characteristics until I vaped at 100w/.5ohm and noticed on my Siggy 100w that when the battery is at 57%, it will not fire the atty due to there not being sufficient amperage. Note that I am using two Sony vtc5 in that device.

 

[Kemosabe]

my votes go for the Samsung 25r and the LG HE2. they are fantastic for my applications, which are 0.4Ω and up. ive done loads of research; the charts are out there. i prefer to stick with a proven name brand with a track record for success.

 

[VapedCrusader]

my votes go for the Samsung 25r and the LG HE2. they are fantastic for my applications, which are 0.4Ω and up. ive done loads of research; the charts are out there. i prefer to stick with a proven name brand with a track record for success.

Agree here - I think I'm going to pick up some Samsungs and see how they stack up.. My last couple vtc's are on there way out I'm afraid.

 

[SteveZ]

Anyone know anything about MXJO? My local B&M got some in. 18650 2500 mah 35 amp. I'm sure the 35 amp is wildly optimistic but I haven't used it below 1ohm so I'm not that worried.

 

[Kemosabe]

Anyone know anything about MXJO? My local B&M got some in. 18650 2500 mah 35 amp. I'm sure the 35 amp is wildly optimistic but I haven't used it below 1ohm so I'm not that worried.

I think they're re wrapped LGs. The candlepower folks seem to agree.

 

[smacksy]

I've read about numerous different batteries that are supposedly the infamous 'Sony Killer'..

most of the posts I see never have any proof to back up these claims..it's usually 'I heard these were better' or 'the random guy i met outside the vape shop exclusively uses these ones for all his mods and they last WAY longer' ..

It seems like this is a way for places to charge much more for these batteries claiming they are just as good or better than the Sony's.. I have heard of vape shops selling some of these individually for 25-30$. I'm all for spending money on a decent battery, but only if it lives up to the hype and performs like it should.. especially with so many people sub-ohming.. safety should be a key factor.

So lets put all of this hoop-lah to rest shall we?

Name the battery you think stands up to the Sony's, and back up your claims the best way you can.

Ready.. Set.. Debate!

View attachment 6626

I've only seen these so called "Sony killers" on the AtoZ website as in posted pics..never tried them myself but they advertise is like getting the power of two Sony batts in one batt called the "Keep power" AKA the Sony killer..lol

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