Disasembly of some CrapFire cells for your perusal

[Robert B]

The wonderful UltraFire 9900mAh 18650

Another UltraFire but only 6000mAh this time. Sold as new, but obviously picked from an old battery pack and re-used.

And something with a wrap over a wrap over some CrapFire wrap


Moral of the story, STOP BUYING THESE FUCKING THINGS. Shit like this is the reason the FAA is clamping down on Lithium ion batteries. There would be no problem, if all there was were high quality batteries from companies like Samsung, LG, & Panasonic. Ok Sony too, if I have to.

 

[Jim_MDP]

9900 mAh ? That's not a typo?

What could that possibly leave for capability, 2A CDR?

Ah... a link to the test results... more like 0.2A CDR.
And are those ICR chem?

What the hell exactly would those be for?
I'm shopping a modest 18650 torch (or two) and I wouldn't even consider something remotely as weak as those.

I expect the other two examples are no better.

 

[Jon@LiionWholesale]

What the hell exactly would those be for?

Misinformed customers who think they're the best for every application. These things sell like hotcakes unfortunately. The number of times we've gotten customers asking for them is unreal. When they tell me they're using it in some 200W mod or something I'm really happy they called us instead of just ordering from Amazon.

 

[Robert B]

9900 mAh ? That's not a typo?

No, it is not a typo, it's a flat out lie

 

[Robert B]

I'm shopping a modest 18650 torch (or two) and I wouldn't even consider something remotely as weak as those.

Most of your 18650 un-modded flashlights are usually no more than 3amp at the tail cap. The LG MJ1 is a fantastic 10amp 3400mAh battery. Jon sells them in flat top, button top, and button top protected.

If you get into the triple LED's with a FET driver, some of those single 18650's tube lights can be as much as 10 or 11amp, but these are usually modded or special ordered, and get damn hot really fast.

 

[dr_rox]

What the hell exactly would those be for?

There's a lot of Li batteries out there, even up to 32xxx size, that look like they could be kick ass vaping cells @6 aH or more. But, the max output current is in the .5 A range. They are for memory or some low current alarm backup when mains power has been turned off. Your puter may have a similar button type cell that does the same thing on a small scale.

 

[Robert B]

What the hell exactly would those be for?

The point of my post is, these cells are good for nothing, since they are dangerous, used junk pulled from power packs, and repackaged as new.

 

[dr_rox]

Yes, I agree, BUT some are not pulls and being sold mislabeled, or consumer/vendor has a misunderstanding of intended use.
I have opened up a few cells in the past myself and was surprised what was inside.

There is no purpose-built vaping battery.

There are pupose-built batteries out there that the vaping industry has identified as 'useful', even though one of the manufacturers publicly insist they do not recommend their use as such.
Some of those Li batteries used for memory backup in medical, telcom, alarms et al have higher capacity but at a purpose-built low discharge rate, so a person not familiar with the intended use may think they have discovered the holy grail of batteries. These forums are enlightening to those that do not have hands on experience like some of the other members that do.

What really bugs me besides the retreading of old cells, is that they represent as 'protected' cells with the button tops, i.e. consumer grade.
Button tops that are protected should have visible evidence of a conductive strip that runs the length of the battery even if it is shrink wrapped. You may also see evidence that circuit boards are present on the ends, and the battery cylinder itself is slightly oversize.

 

[Robert B]

There is no purpose-built vaping battery.

There are pupose-built batteries out there that the vaping industry has identified as 'useful', even though one of the manufacturers publicly insist they do not recommend their use as such.
Some of those Li batteries used for memory backup in medical, telcom, alarms et al have higher capacity but at a purpose-built low discharge rate, so a person not familiar with the intended use may think they have discovered the holy grail of batteries. These forums are enlightening to those that do not have hands on experience like some of the other members that do.

Yup, I agree. No purpose built 18xxx's made for vaping, or flashlights for that matter. Especially Sony whom I believe you're referring to. However, the cheap re-treaded chinese cells in the post above are marketed to vaper's and flashlight enthusiasts, and are sold by the thousands on places like Amazon. You aren't going to see cells for sale on Amazon where the title says "Made for medical, telcom and alarms". They are specifically marketed to us. Which is why I posted it.

 

[dr_rox]

YES!
A big problem is the poor saps that use those button tops in flashlights.
The better made flashlights (olite, nitecore, etc) will only work with consumer grade button tops.
They have recessed + contacts and utilze different strategies to prevent flat tops from being used.
This is SUPPOSED to prevent unprotected batteries from being used in flashlights that can charge batteries without removing them. A protected battery will disconnect itself from a charging source once it is full (if light does not have the proper circuit). Otherwise.....

The strangest batteries I opened up had baggie cells like in the egos, thin - probably 24 g wire - soldered to case and top. Some baggies filled the entire case, others had smaller ones with padding!!!!
What a waste - but when 'they' have cheap labor, earnings potential, and are insulated from liability... dumb shit happens.

 

[Robert B]

YES!
A big problem is the poor saps that use those button tops in flashlights.
The better made flashlights (olite, nitecore, etc) will only work with consumer grade button tops.
They have recessed + contacts and utilze different strategies to prevent flat tops from being used.
This is SUPPOSED to prevent unprotected batteries from being used in flashlights that can charge batteries without removing them. A protected battery will disconnect itself from a charging source once it is full (if light does not have the proper circuit). Otherwise.....

The strangest batteries I opened up had baggie cells like in the egos, thin - probably 24 g wire - soldered to case and top. Some baggies filled the entire case, others had smaller ones with padding!!!!
What a waste - but when 'they' have cheap labor, earnings potential, and are insulated from liability... dumb shit happens.

I have quite a flashlight collection including 3 nitecores, a couple Olights, and about 25 others. You're right, the nitecore can only be used with button tops, and the two Olights as well. My S1 Olight, you actually put the cell in backwards (positive to tail cap). Many lights that use both flat tops and button tops have low voltage cut-offs built into the driver, others use thermal step-down, and timed step-down.

But yeah, I suggest protected cells for newbs if the light doesn't have any low voltage protection. Here's a few of mine. There's 12 or 13 more that aren't in this picture, and a few more in the mail.. The two just to the left of the tiny copper Olight S1 are both Nitecores.

 

[dr_rox]

Nice collection.
I have a Streamlight Scorpion that will blow if you didn't use LiFe's.
Then I started vaping and collected 18650's.
Picked up a few of the 5 or 6 buck Ultrafire 18650 lights on ebay - they aren't bad.
Then I got 3 Smilodon's when Illumn had them on sale.
Nice light.
Bro just got an Olite sr52ut. That's where I ran into the weird + terminal. It is flush but must be compressed for light to work.

I use the headlights more than anything - esp. @ work. Boruit dual 18650 with white + UV . Have an assortment of others, but that one is my fav.

No light? I have a cell from an AN/PVS7 with eyepiece and mount to hold nikon camera lenses q;-P
One of these days I'll find a reasonable optical system for sale.

 

[raymo2u]

I love me a trustfire....nothing better to have on you in a survival situation...theres so many uses. Core for a pipebomb for zombies, starting a campire, removing pests and the annoying cat next door from property, with a few of them you have a way of moving heavy things by gliding it on top of them, a few in a sock makes a great self defense weapon, with a gum wrapper they make a decent lighter.

 

[dr_rox]

I have quite a flashlight collection

OK. Couple questions.
Which is the best pocketable one?
And which one can't you do without??

 

[Jim_MDP]

Most of your 18650 un-modded flashlights are usually no more than 3amp at the tail cap. The LG MJ1 is a fantastic 10amp 3400mAh battery. Jon sells them in flat top, button top, and button top protected.

If you get into the triple LED's with a FET driver, some of those single 18650's tube lights can be as much as 10 or 11amp, but these are usually modded or special ordered, and get damn hot really fast.

Thanks for the batt recommendation.

As I said in the other thread, I'll probably get a Convoy S (2?) with only four emitters, even six might be overkill for my need.
What kind of draw am I looking at?

 

[nightshard]

I save you the long read.
Don't buy Ultrafire (or any other battery with the word fire in it), just don't.

 

[Model_A_Ford]

HohmTech claims to have the first made for vape batteries, but I don't know if there's much difference from the LG batteries they're based on.

 

[vap3r]

Which is the best pocketable one?

Muyshondt Aeon Mk. III. Some may argue in favor of products from McGizmo. High-end all the way.

And which one can't you do without??

Polarion PH50 w/ Sylvania D1S HID. One of the nastiest handheld lights ever produced. For lights easily accessible from a purchase standpoint, I strongly prefer INFORCE. All of my firearms feature their products exclusively. I also have few handheld lights from Mac's Customs and other CPF modders. If I were to get back into flashlights, there is no doubt that I would be looking in the direction of either the XeRay XV-LX70, or the SureFire ARC2-8C. Fortunately for my wallet, I have no immediate desire to do so. Once you have experienced HID illumination, it is hard to go back to anything else

 

[Robert B]

Thanks for the batt recommendation.

As I said in the other thread, I'll probably get a Convoy S (2?) with only four emitters, even six might be overkill for my need.
What kind of draw am I looking at?

Jim, the emitters are the LED's. What you're thinking is the 7135 resistors. If you are looking for a Convoy S2+, 7135*3 is about 350 lumen on turbo mode, 7135*8 is about 1100 lumen. So with *6 you're looking at probably around 850 lumen or so.

 

[Robert B]

OK. Couple questions.
Which is the best pocketable one?
And which one can't you do without??

The most pocketable is probably the Olight S1 (500 lumen CR123 batt). The most practical EDC that is pocketable (that I own) is the Convoy S2+ with the 18350 tube. Can't do without? Good question.. lol

Here's the Convoy S2+ 18650 compared to the S2+ 18350

 

[dr_rox]

Thanks man.
En-light-ening.

 

[pulsevape]

No, it is not a typo, it's a flat out lie

ya think.

 

[vap3r]

Polarion PH50 w/ Pyrex diffuser filter + SureFire M4 Devastator custom bored for 18650 w/ Cree XP-G2 385 lm @ 6V LED tower + Muyshondt Aeon + INFORCE 9vx + Kennedy Roundhouse w/ Velocity V2. I also have a number of additional SureFire lights custom bored for 3 x 17670 or 1 x 18650. A Mac’s Customs Welch Allyn Solaforce HID. Products from FiveMega. The list can go on. The Aeon Mk. III is at work. I’ll shoot it when I get the chance. Nichia 219B 200 max lm on a single CR2. I cannot recommended it enough as one of the the most pocketeable torches on the market. Alternatives in the under $200 USD category includes the 10250-powered HF and/or HF-R from MatchBox Instruments (MBI) and the SureFire Sidekick.