Noisy Cricket with Twisted Messes flavor build,

[Rhett1977]

I know NC's are the rage to a lot of ppl and at $18 why the hell not. I use the Twisted Messes pretty much exclusively. I have several of the original and several RDA2 (squared). I love them. I just need some help with coils for it. I have used steam engine and I'm just not sure. So I figured I'd ask a couple questions here. I don't care about big clouds, I'm a flavor chaser. I know Twisted Messes isn't the best atty for flavor but they're easy to build on and have deep juice wells. My questions are:

Am I ok with this atty? The pin does protrude on all of them. I just haven't heard anyone talk about using this atty on a NC.

I want to get around 100 watts or so. Where do I need to start to get this average? I don't know how to compute that.

All of my builds are lower ohms so I'm completely lost trying to build what I'm thinking is about .75 ohms. Not sure if I did it right on steam engine. I do have a reputable ohm meter. I don't build without it. I usually run dual fused claptons, or some other form of Clapton. That's all I've ever had. The guy that got me started built my first set and I burned through them in 10 minutes so he built me 10 wrap dual fused claptons. (I don't know what the ohms was on that coil but it wasn't hot enough.) That's all I've used since is claptons. Willi be ok with fused claptons? If so, what should I shoot for as to how many wraps, etc. I mostly do 2.8mm coils.

I apologize ahead of time for running this dead horse into the ground. I do sincerely appreciate all the help I've gotten on here. Hopefully one day I will be able to return all of the help. Thanks bunches!!!!

 

[vap3r]

I might do this on a NC:

 

[JERUS]

I know NC's are the rage to a lot of ppl and at $18 why the hell not. I use the Twisted Messes pretty much exclusively. I have several of the original and several RDA2 (squared). I love them. I just need some help with coils for it. I have used steam engine and I'm just not sure. So I figured I'd ask a couple questions here. I don't care about big clouds, I'm a flavor chaser. I know Twisted Messes isn't the best atty for flavor but they're easy to build on and have deep juice wells. My questions are:

Am I ok with this atty? The pin does protrude on all of them. I just haven't heard anyone talk about using this atty on a NC.

I want to get around 100 watts or so. Where do I need to start to get this average? I don't know how to compute that.

All of my builds are lower ohms so I'm completely lost trying to build what I'm thinking is about .75 ohms. Not sure if I did it right on steam engine. I do have a reputable ohm meter. I don't build without it. I usually run dual fused claptons, or some other form of Clapton. That's all I've ever had. The guy that got me started built my first set and I burned through them in 10 minutes so he built me 10 wrap dual fused claptons. (I don't know what the ohms was on that coil but it wasn't hot enough.) That's all I've used since is claptons. Willi be ok with fused claptons? If so, what should I shoot for as to how many wraps, etc. I mostly do 2.8mm coils.

I apologize ahead of time for running this dead horse into the ground. I do sincerely appreciate all the help I've gotten on here. Hopefully one day I will be able to return all of the help. Thanks bunches!!!!

Lets start with the 100w goal. 100w/7.4v (more realistic expectation than the full 8.4v) will get you 13.5amps. 7.4v/13.5amps = .54Ω... if you use 8.4v you'd be going for a .7Ω build but trust me, that's not going to give you 100w, I went up to just .62Ω on a build and it was a much cooler vape than I was used to on the NC I'd be very surprised if it was getting over 100w of power.

Now of course remember smaller wire and higher resistance your wattage is going to go a lot further than it does on your beefier builds. 100w on a .12Ω 24g fused clapton is quite cool, 100w on a 28g FC(around .5Ω) will be much warmer and heat up much quicker.

Anyways, yes you can do FCs but you'll probably want to use 28g or higher. I have 28g 3.5mm ID 8 wrap FCs in my Avocado right now and it's wonderful, coming in at .48Ω, great flavor and out of all the vapes I got I think it's my favorite, that includes a Griffin with some .12ΩAliens on a regulated device and various lower ohm FC builds. I know some others like the Alien builds with 3x30g cores and what not, but that's too fancy for me to make

 

[Rhett1977]

Thanks everybody. I really do appreciate it. I just needed a place to start. Or a direction. Whatever you want to call it. I'm very computer challenged. I tried the steam engine website but wasn't sure how it worked. Thank y'all again!!!

 

[JERUS]

Thanks everybody. I really do appreciate it. I just needed a place to start. Or a direction. Whatever you want to call it. I'm very computer challenged. I tried the steam engine website but wasn't sure how it worked. Thank y'all again!!!

For resistance (which determines a LOT with mechs). you don't need to mess with the wire wizard, the claptoning doesn't really affect the resistance much. You will have to apply some thought and know that it will add to ramp up time though and thicker that outer wire the longer it will take for the heat to transfer through it from the cores.

For the coil wrapping section it's pretty simple. First though, it's not 100% accurate but gives you a great approximation which is all you should need, tweak from there.


Quick little paint job.

First, you choose the wire you're using, default is Kanthal A1 which I think is most common. Next is type of wire, typically it's just round, but in approximating fused claptons we switch to the twisted/parallel option. Then we leave the pitch at 0 as they're parallel and since infinity isn't an option they default that calculation to 0 for parallel. Number of strands is of course 2 but if you go with 3 strands you can change that. Diameter of wire, that's your gauge, 28g here because I'm modeling what I have in my NC right now. So I have 28g FCs which means the cores are in parallel and 28g so far. Then I set the coil type, I have dual coils so I set it to dual coil. This essentially just has me double the wraps for each coil to obtain the target resistance as dual coils cut the resistance in half as the current has twice the path options.

So next choice is Target resistance, again modeling mine I chose .5Ω. Now we move on to Inner diameter of the coil, this is what I wrap around, I used the 3.5mm rod on my Coilmaster v3 for this, so I went with 3.5. Now this is huge, when you install you have to make sure to pull the slack out or that will be inaccurate. I can typically pull a good 5-10mm of slack out of a coil. Wire is springy, so when you wrap you notice that you have the leads lining up then let go and suddenly they aren't, that's it springing out and causing slack, that's what you need to get out in the install.

On my latest build I think I had 10mm+ of slack to pull out, that means all that was in the coil and after wrapping it was probably a 3.8mm or some such ID rather than the 3.5mm I wanted, which would mean it would have given a higher resistance than I wanted.

Anyways last choice is leg length, honestly I generally just leave that at 5mm, yes it's going to give me bad readings, but I'm not going to measure that precisely and it's more of a concern on power loss than resistance. Considering I typically have my coils as close to the posts as possible I think 5mm is a good approximation.

Now we just have to read the wraps and see if we can do that. As you see it says 8 wraps and change. Which is pretty close to what I got going here.

Pretty easy to use tool as long as you understand what each option is you just go down the list and adjust what you need to the parameters you want.

Hope that helps some, if not, ehh I tried

 

[Rhett1977]

Jerus you are fucking awesome!!!!!! Now I can go use that website. I didn't have a clue what to put in it. Last question. Do you like the flavor out of the fused claptons or should I try something else? I know it's pretty subjective but I have a great friend that does builds for a shop for a living and he keeps telling me to try staggered fused claptons. Do you think they're better or do you just use FC all the time? Thank you again for your time and patience to write that explanation out like you did. I'm gonna copy and paste it so I'll have it when I need to use steam engine. THANK YOU!!!!!!!

 

[JERUS]

Jerus you are fucking awesome!!!!!! Now I can go use that website. I didn't have a clue what to put in it. Last question. Do you like the flavor out of the fused claptons or should I try something else? I know it's pretty subjective but I have a great friend that does builds for a shop for a living and he keeps telling me to try staggered fused claptons. Do you think they're better or do you just use FC all the time? Thank you again for your time and patience to write that explanation out like you did. I'm gonna copy and paste it so I'll have it when I need to use steam engine. THANK YOU!!!!!!!

The only thing more advanced than Fused Claptons that I've tried are Aliens from Purecoils.com, they're awesome, but not to the point that I want to learn them myself for their effectiveness (when I get the tinkering itch I'll try them for the sake of saying I have but that's it).

So personally I just use Fused Claptons for most everything(everything except the builds I've purchased from others), they're just solid. I'm sure there are better options, it's just kind of, well I found my happy place and I'm content. If your buddy is willing to slap some together I'd say go for it and give it a try. From what I've been told those more advanced builds are better, but not like the jump to fused claptons (which IMO is a huge and worthwhile gain).

And, glad it was of use, only took a couple mins, and that's what this website is for! I learned most of what I know from here so always happy to try and pass it along.

 

[Rhett1977]

I wanted you to know I appreciate the hell out of it. I'm not used to someone that will take the time to teach me and explain things like that. I'm still new to the forum and sometimes newbies get blasted because they have a serious lack of knowledge.

I was just worried about the ramp up time. That's the big thing I wasn't sure about with the more advanced claptons. I already take a 5-6 second pull on the fused claptons and don't want to take an even longer pull than I'm used to. I have enough throat hit and everything. It's just habit from smoking. I always took really long draws. Thank you again. I really appreciate your time.

 

[JERUS]

I wanted you to know I appreciate the hell out of it. I'm not used to someone that will take the time to teach me and explain things like that. I'm still new to the forum and sometimes newbies get blasted because they have a serious lack of knowledge.

I was just worried about the ramp up time. That's the big thing I wasn't sure about with the more advanced claptons. I already take a 5-6 second pull on the fused claptons and don't want to take an even longer pull than I'm used to. I have enough throat hit and everything. It's just habit from smoking. I always took really long draws. Thank you again. I really appreciate your time.

The only blasting for lack of knowledge you get here is when you try to do dumb shit with mechs, but it's that tough love, trying to keep people out of the news and all.

Ramp up is something to be concerned with, but a solution is blowing out initially till you start to see vapor from the airflow then inhaling (eventually you'll just have the rhythm so won't need to wait for vapor, and it can get messy with condensation). For minimal ramp up on claptons you want to use something like 36g or higher, I use 40g exclusively, I find it to hardly be a difference between a perfectly claptoned and just strait parallel cores, so the ramp up isn't really there any more than it would be without the claptons. The 32g that you often see with the factory made wire and such, that stuff takes forever to heat up and the reason I didn't get why people liked claptons for a long time (claptoned 32g myself and just found it to be worse than my twisted builds).

 

[Rhett1977]

I didn't mean blasting newbies on here. I meant on other forums I've visited. I should have said that. My bad.

Ok. Good deal. He goes all the way up to 50 gauge so no problems there. He's a manager of a vape shop and does all of their builds. He does all kind of crazy shit. I am very thankful of your time again. You have been a lot of help. I've been going wrong by having him use lower gauge wire. 26/32 or 28/32 because I have burnt up so many coils. I'm talking to him right now telling him what you're telling me and he said yep listen to him because you won't listen to me. What can I say. I don't like trying new things. I get used to something and just don't wanna change. I guess it's time to take the plunge. But I can't swim lol. Thanks again.

 

[PaulS]

I just use the standard UD clapton wire in my series mod and wrap 5-6 times single coil and get on my 13th Heavens about .48 or so. I find i like the single coil options on both my Twisted and 13th. I tend not to complicate builds too much for a series mod. I know i will be swapping coils monthly.

 

[Rhett1977]

Thank you Paul. I've got a 13 heavens also that I recently bought and haven't had time to play with it yet. I was just looking at it not 20 mins ago and thinking wjoxh should I use on my cricket. I guess I'll put a different build in each and try that.

On a side note, my buddy, Dillon, asked me about staging the coil. He said it will ramp up faster. How fast does this thing ramp up? Thank y'all again!!!

 

[JERUS]

Thank you Paul. I've got a 13 heavens also that I recently bought and haven't had time to play with it yet. I was just looking at it not 20 mins ago and thinking wjoxh should I use on my cricket. I guess I'll put a different build in each and try that.

On a side note, my buddy, Dillon, asked me about staging the coil. He said it will ramp up faster. How fast does this thing ramp up? Thank y'all again!!!

Staging is just extra wire that takes makes it so instead of just heating the clapton wrap from the inside you're now heating it from the sides as well. The staging will begin vaporizing juice and as the clapton ramps up it'll join the party, and it'll ramp up quicker having the heat of the staging right next to it.

 

[Rhett1977]

Oh ok. He's gonna make me both just so I can try them and see what I like best. He's my best friend. Us that know him call him Dillhole (Dillon+asshole) because he's the nicest guy you'll ever meet. He's very cool headed and rarely gets angry. Even when he does you'll rarely notice. Thanks again. I can't wait now. Dammit. I'm impatient. Thank you again for your time. Oh and I used your tutorial on steam engine. Damn it's easy to use when you understand what to put in for the values!!!!