How will FDA regulations affect Forums?

[KingLouie]

Hello everybody,

I just had some questions or points of interest i hope to find out. I think they are important to us especially with this great forum we use. Im sure you are all aware of the incoming FDA regulations. But some things remain unclear to me:

-If the regulations make it that modifying devices is not allowed, what will happen to progressive online forums dedicated to modifying their devices to perform optimally/ to their needs?

-Will buying/selling/giving away hardware on forums become illigal? Since we are not/VU is not registered through the FDA like they intend

Thanks for your time, feel free to add to my questions if you have similar ones

 

[JuicyLucy]

Hello everybody,

I just had some questions or points of interest i hope to find out. I think they are important to us especially with this great forum we use. Im sure you are all aware of the incoming FDA regulations. But some things remain unclear to me:

-If the regulations make it that modifying devices is not allowed, what will happen to progressive online forums dedicated to modifying their devices to perform optimally/ to their needs?

-Will buying/selling/giving away hardware on forums become illigal? Since we are not/VU is not registered through the FDA like they intend

Thanks for your time, feel free to add to my questions if you have similar ones

I have been acting on the assumption it will be illegal to sell anything without the FDA "stamp of approval" and tobacco license for the state in which you live in if the FDA is actually going to treat stuff like an atty the same as a cigarette basically.

However, I figure forums like this and social networking in general will be invaluable for trading. May or may not be allowed to occur in the open.

Curious to see what others - especially mods and VaperJoe say about this site specifically.

 

[Ms. Trixy]

My father who just started vaping says the vape shop says they are allowed to continue selling their current inventory for another 3 months.
What about current vapers? Are we still permitted to vape in designated 'smoking' areas?
And, all nicotine, vg, pg, flash etc will be banned?
Basically, how will it effect us as vapers. Sorry, but due to new meds my memory and coordination is bad. It's hard for me to remember how to type!

 

[BigNasty]

Fuck em.
Fuck the FDA.

 

[SMOKIE]

Hello everybody,

I just had some questions or points of interest i hope to find out. I think they are important to us especially with this great forum we use. Im sure you are all aware of the incoming FDA regulations. But some things remain unclear to me:

-If the regulations make it that modifying devices is not allowed, what will happen to progressive online forums dedicated to modifying their devices to perform optimally/ to their needs?

-Will buying/selling/giving away hardware on forums become illigal? Since we are not/VU is not registered through the FDA like they intend

Thanks for your time, feel free to add to my questions if you have similar ones

They can not shut us down, we took some major steps when opening this forum to prevent that from happening if ever. Now for sales, giveaways, etc that might be a somewhat of a issue but I can assure you there will be ways around it.

 

[KingLouie]

They can not shut us down, we took some major steps when opening this forum to prevent that from happening if ever. Now for sales, giveaways, etc that might be a somewhat of a issue but I can assure you there will be ways around it.

Thanks for the info smokie. I figured it would be hard for them to shut down an entire forum

That being said though, if selling second hand hardware or something becomes illigal, the trading post would have to be shut down

The internet might basically become the black market of vaping if the FDA laws are bad enough, but i would not want to be caught on the wrong side of things. The government has a history of making big, scary examples out of people to scare the rest of the population.

Additionally.. i heard that vape shops building coils are considered tobacco manufacturers. Does that in turn make us rebuilders Tobacco manufacturers in our own homes? thats the part that scares me the most, if i post pictures or information about how i build an atty a certain way, or drilled out an airhole, i dont want the FDA to have blackmail on me, or on this site. Because to them, changing it in ANY way makes you a tobacco manufacturer. Makes a whole lot of sense, right?

 

[JuicyLucy]

Maybe we'll see ridiculous "rehome" fees or extraordinary shipping fees for vape stuff on private sales.

Sample classie example: FREE: REO squonker, still in package from when I purchased it before 8/8. Mod is free. Shipping is $200.

 

[JuicyLucy]

Thanks for the info smokie. I figured it would be hard for them to shut down an entire forum

That being said though, if selling second hand hardware or something becomes illigal, the trading post would have to be shut down

The internet might basically become the black market of vaping if the FDA laws are bad enough, but i would not want to be caught on the wrong side of things. The government has a history of making big, scary examples out of people to scare the rest of the population.

Additionally.. i heard that vape shops building coils are considered tobacco manufacturers. Does that in turn make us rebuilders Tobacco manufacturers in our own homes? thats the part that scares me the most, if i post pictures or information about how i build an atty a certain way, or drilled out an airhole, i dont want the FDA to have blackmail on me, or on this site. Because to them, changing it in ANY way makes you a tobacco manufacturer. Makes a whole lot of sense, right?

I had not thought of "roll your own coils" for private use turning someone into a manufacturer

Bears looking into

 

[KingLouie]

Maybe we'll see ridiculous "rehome" fees or extraordinary shipping fees for vape stuff on private sales.

Sample classie example: FREE: REO squonker, still in package from when I purchased it before 8/8. Mod is free. Shipping is $200.

Lol, the internet cannot be stopped. With all of the vaping forums, and facebook groups, i have no doubt that vape gear will be traded/sold, even if it is shady or illigal. Im just trying to find out if it will actually be illegal.

As in, after the ban hits, could i sell you a used product? or would that make me a tobacco distributer or some shit. Or could i give my mom an atomizer? or would that be illegal. These are things that are not clear in the FDA notes, its mainly directed to distributors and stores.

 

[KingLouie]

And yeah, crazy right, but literally drilling an airhole is enough for your vape store to be considered a tobacco manufacturer. That i am sure of. I just dont know about how it works with the regular consumer, not a store or company.

 

[JuicyLucy]

Lol, the internet cannot be stopped. With all of the vaping forums, and facebook groups, i have no doubt that vape gear will be traded/sold, even if it is shady or illigal. Im just trying to find out if it will actually be illegal.

As in, after the ban hits, could i sell you a used product? or would that make me a tobacco distributer or some shit. Or could i give my mom an atomizer? or would that be illegal. These are things that are not clear in the FDA notes, its mainly directed to distributors and stores.

I would like to see this clarified, as I have no intention of actually breaking the law but I do have every intention of vaping in the style I'm accustomed to, or even better.

 

[Ms. Trixy]

I posted a video regarding an addendum that passed the Senate 31-19 that would change the 2007 date to 8/8. Lemme see......Ah, here it is.

 

[JuicyLucy]

I posted a video regarding an addendum that passed the Senate 31-19 that would change the 2007 date to 8/8. Lemme see......Ah, here it is.

There are plenty of great possibilities out there like this legislation and lawsuits that have been filed.

But it is highly unlikely that 100% of the deeming regs will go away.

That means we will all have to adjust our behavior one way or another and it is very likely going to impact how we use forums.

 

[KingLouie]

I would like to see this clarified, as I have no intention of actually breaking the law but I do have every intention of vaping in the style I'm accustomed to, or even better.

I agree 100%.. nothing should change. Im only looking up as well, lol. Good video too. Im sure someone with more knowledge will have the answers.

Basically- is product already on the market subject to regulation, or just new products? the video seems to suggest only new products are targeted.
This not to be confused with the whole 2007 bit, or buying it at a store. Can i buy/sell/trade second-hand products that have been purchased legally (before or after this hits) once the regulation has started

 

[JuicyLucy]

I agree 100%.. nothing should change. Im only looking up as well, lol. Good video too. Im sure someone with more knowledge will have the answers.

Basically- is product already on the market subject to regulation, or just new products? the video seems to suggest only new products are targeted.
This not to be confused with the whole 2007 bit, or buying it at a store. Can i buy/sell/trade second-hand products that have been purchased legally (before or after this hits) once the regulation has started

My best GUESS is that because vapes will be deemed tobacco, it will vary from state to state as to what is allowed or not allowed, like it is for cigarettes or other tobacco products.

 

[Lefty]

I agree 100%.. nothing should change. Im only looking up as well, lol. Good video too. Im sure someone with more knowledge will have the answers.

Basically- is product already on the market subject to regulation, or just new products? the video seems to suggest only new products are targeted.
This not to be confused with the whole 2007 bit, or buying it at a store. Can i buy/sell/trade second-hand products that have been purchased legally (before or after this hits) once the regulation has started

No one can have all the answers at this point until it all shakes out. Remember this is at the federal level. Individual states have their own laws as well that can seriously impact legal status. The new Pennsylvania law is an example (shudder) of that. For now I assume the worst while shouting loudly for saner alternatives.

 

[Mattp169]

I seriously have my doubts about any law truly effecting this forum. First off we are all just exchanging information and in the USA that is covered by free speech...provided we are not discussing illegal activities
We will continue to exchange information,opinions etc.
Now if we as a community are forced to engage in less then boy scout behavior. forums will allow people to connect to each other. However I am sure the gov't is well aware of that and will be trying to monitor as well.

Retailers will still be able to .inform us here of sales etc.
However Since the Deeming regs prevent free items...i am sure the contests and giveaways will definitely be effected.

I havent looked at the deeming regs in a while...but I do not recall there being a differentiation between new and used products. So selling used items may be effected it may not. Think used cars. a dealership has certain legal responsibilities that are not imposed on private sales. I am not even sure the FDA considered this since who ever heard of selling a used pack of cigarettes. And that has been their main focus for years in this area

When we mix our own juice and make our own coils we are not manufacturers....since we are not selling the items. You are doing it for our own private use. Think of the difference between possession and intent to distribute. Intent is important in the eyes of the law regardless of what it is.
If you are making coils and juice for personal use..which the use of these products is not being regulated only the products themselves and marketing and sales by the deeming regs, then you are not under the deeming regs unless your intent is to market or sell them

 

[nightshard]

Did anyone get .onion for the forum? Maybe it's about time

 

[Mattp169]

Did anyone get .onion for the forum? Maybe it's about time

im sure there is a joke in there...but can you explain what you are talking about for those of us still caffine deprived

 

[nightshard]

.onion is a TOR extension.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tor_(anonymity_network)?wprov=sfla1

 

[Mattp169]

got ya now ty

 

[ej1024]

Free speech
FDA can't shut us down...



VAPE ON

 

[Johnny Hotsauce]

As e-cig and vaping vaping forums will be used in conjunction with the act of vaping, the forums will be deemed Tobacco Products after 8/8/16 and will need to submit a PMTA to the FDA, unless the said forum was in existence prior to 2/2007 then it will need to submit an SE application.

As much as the above is complete and total sarcasm, I can see these FDA genius's trying to pull that off too...

 

[nightshard]

Why do torrent sites keep getting closed even though they don't do anything illegal themselves only keep reference to illegal info?
A forum keeping reference to illegal gear is just the same.
If your government wants to make something illegal, they will find a way.

 

[Mattp169]

forums are vaping accessories and therefor not subject to the fda deeming regs
silly people

 

[ej1024]

Vaping underground is a
TOBACCO PRODUCT
LOL
FUCK THE GOVERNMENT


VAPE ON

 

[Time]

Thanks for the info smokie. I figured it would be hard for them to shut down an entire forum

That being said though, if selling second hand hardware or something becomes illigal, the trading post would have to be shut down

The internet might basically become the black market of vaping if the FDA laws are bad enough, but i would not want to be caught on the wrong side of things. The government has a history of making big, scary examples out of people to scare the rest of the population.

Additionally.. i heard that vape shops building coils are considered tobacco manufacturers. Does that in turn make us rebuilders Tobacco manufacturers in our own homes? thats the part that scares me the most, if i post pictures or information about how i build an atty a certain way, or drilled out an airhole, i dont want the FDA to have blackmail on me, or on this site. Because to them, changing it in ANY way makes you a tobacco manufacturer. Makes a whole lot of sense, right?

I'm not an attorney and it's unclear what the FDA will or will not approve, but,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Anything you do yourself, like roll a coil, would not make you a manufacturer,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,IF you don't sell it.

Anybody that sells or makes and sells would be a manufacturer/vendor.

Making coils and selling them on a forum would make one a manufacturer. I'm not sure the buyer would be charged with anything. The maker could be.

Keep in mind that selling DIY juice is illegal if you don't claim taxes, have a business license. Same with coils and what not, with or without FDA regulations. But it is done anyway.

You can answer most of your own questions by keeping in mind that making and selling anything, consistently, makes a person a manufacturer. It's rare for people that do so on a small scale will have any legal problems, unless the liability is high.

The regs won't have much, if any, impact on individual business done by individuals on the forum unless the business is somewhat large scale like a person that makes allot of coils to sell on the forum. I doubt that selling a persons old stuff here and there will be an issue. Think scale. Some of what is traded/sold is already technically illegal unless the seller has a tax ID/business license but the government does not actively scour the internet to find small fish.

 

[nightshard]

If there is no new gear, no new technology, nothing to buy and nothing to sell, then what is there to talk about in the forum?

 

[ej1024]

If there is no new gear, no new technology, nothing to buy and nothing to sell, then what is there to talk about in the forum?

Trust me dude
There's always something To talk about


VAPE ON

 

[Huckleberried]

If there is no new gear, no new technology, nothing to buy and nothing to sell, then what is there to talk about in the forum?

Same as what there is today. I vape mostly the same stuff for a while, it's still the gear I discuss in certain areas. Any issues that anyone experiences, are possibly issues someone else resolved. In the DIY, there's ALWAYS stuff to discuss. What did people discuss before all this was SO readily available? Forums were around then.

Like ej says, what's not to discuss?

 

[f1r3b1rd]

If there is no new gear, no new technology, nothing to buy and nothing to sell, then what is there to talk about in the forum?

I'm sure we can all find something to discuss. if its not the best way to polish a tube mod, we can always discuss cooking tips, how tp crochet a blanky, or bikini car washes

 

[AndriaD]

Or coconut water!

Andria

 

[ej1024]

For example

Damn, I always get excited when grow this big...
Lol


VAPE ON

 

[skt239]

Free speech
FDA can't shut us down...



VAPE ON

The federal government does not give two fucks about the 1st amendment and actually sees it has a road block to their many agendas. They can't shut down protest so they create "free speech zones". They can't shut down newspapers so they control the stories through propaganda. If this forum got in the way of regulations, they will find a way to shut us down or limit our speech. Put nothing past this administration or any administration to come. I think our one saving grace when it comes to the regs are is the feds woeful incompetence and lack of planning / foresight.

 

[ej1024]

The federal government does not give two fucks about the 1st amendment and actually sees it has a road block to their many agendas. They can't shut down protest so they create "free speech zones". They can't shut down newspapers so they control the stories through propaganda. If this forum got in the way of regulations, they will find a way to shut us down or limit our speech. Put nothing past this administration or any administration to come. I think our one saving grace when it comes to the regs are is the feds woeful incompetence and lack of planning / foresight.

Agreed!


VAPE ON

 

[f1r3b1rd]

For example

Damn, I always get excited when grow this big...
Lol


VAPE ON

you got tiny tomatoes

 

[KingLouie]

I know there will always be something to talk about. I also wasnt saying that the FDA might consider VU or similar sites as 'tobacco product' or something stupid and shut it down.

I just realized that all these regulations pertain to new product. As in, stuff you buy in a vape shop or online. But theres no references to used product. Because, either to the FDA's ignorance or unknowing, vape gear is re-usable, and can last a long time. So it could be sold second-hand, like seen in the classifieds. I guess they mightve overlooked that part because who ever heard of selling a pack half-full of cigarettes, they dont understand.

But i wouldnt be surprised if they try and make peer-to-peer selling illegal or at least really hard to do(legally)

 

[AndriaD]

Andria

 

[Whiskey]

you got tiny tomatoes

 

[skt239]

I know there will always be something to talk about. I also wasnt saying that the FDA might consider VU or similar sites as 'tobacco product' or something stupid and shut it down.

I just realized that all these regulations pertain to new product. As in, stuff you buy in a vape shop or online. But theres no references to used product. Because, either to the FDA's ignorance or unknowing, vape gear is re-usable, and can last a long time. So it could be sold second-hand, like seen in the classifieds. I guess they mightve overlooked that part because who ever heard of selling a pack half-full of cigarettes, they dont understand.

But i wouldnt be surprised if they try and make peer-to-peer selling illegal or at least really hard to do(legally)

From what I've read, even firmware updates are considered to be "tobacco products" so like I said, put nothing past the scumbags

 

[Huckleberried]

Regardless of whether, or not, selling and trading would be affected, I can't imagine the forum being affected. Is it possible? Don't know. But, the new laws, as I understand them, at least, affect NEW products and existing products being sold from that date forward, without the PMwhatever it is. Are we not allowed to keep what we have?? We'll talk about what we have.

 

[MrScaryZ]

Hello everybody,

I just had some questions or points of interest i hope to find out. I think they are important to us especially with this great forum we use. Im sure you are all aware of the incoming FDA regulations. But some things remain unclear to me:

-If the regulations make it that modifying devices is not allowed, what will happen to progressive online forums dedicated to modifying their devices to perform optimally/ to their needs?

-Will buying/selling/giving away hardware on forums become illigal? Since we are not/VU is not registered through the FDA like they intend

Thanks for your time, feel free to add to my questions if you have similar ones

This is not a freedom of speech change. I doubt if the resources will be put in place to scan online forums for people making deals behind closed doors and there are a million ways to get around this. if one is very paranoid you could go to the extreme of creating a new identity on here and using a VPN to connect to the site so that it would be very difficult for the FDA or whoever to track you . Or as the name of the site says "UNDERGROUND" maybe we will all have to move to the haha "dark" web and create a new identity the VU silk road comes to mind

 

[ej1024]

you got tiny tomatoes

That's how big they get... Lol
Grape tomatoes


VAPE ON

 

[nightshard]

They don't need to classify VU as a tobacco product, just classify it as a site that endorses the illegal usage/sale of a tobacco product.

 

[Huckleberried]

ej's tomatoes are really small, aren't they?

 

[Rabbit Slayer]

I could read every book on bomb making on the planet, as long as I don't actually make a bomb I'm not breaking any laws...

 

[Huckleberried]

They don't need to classify VU as a tobacco product, just classify it as a site that endorses the illegal usage/sale of a tobacco product.

What about the forums for the other stuff that can't be discussed here? Those exist. Not legal in all states.

 

[f1r3b1rd]

This is not a freedom of speech change. I doubt if the resources will be put in place to scan online forums for people making deals behind closed doors and there are a million ways to get around this. if one is very paranoid you could go to the extreme of creating a new identity on here and using a VPN to connect to the site so that it would be very difficult for the FDA or whoever to track you . Or as the name of the site says "UNDERGROUND" maybe we will all have to move to the haha "dark" web and create a new identity the VU silk road comes to mind

agreed to an extent..

lets not forget, this whole thing is about the bottom dollar. in a matter of years, when the agreements with big tobacco have expired and they have milked that cow for every drop they can get from its utters, the vape game will suddenly be healthy in exchange for a large tax percentage.

proof this is about money can clearly be seen. with certain things that our parents never thought they would see legal, becoming endorsed, legalized and taxed. Yet a smoking cessation product is cast as the devils right hand? uncle same just wants its "fair share" because "you didn't build that"

 

[ej1024]

Yup
Even software support ETCCC is considered tobacco!!!
DNA owners be ready for it


VAPE ON

 

[Whiskey]

What about the forums for the other stuff that can't be discussed here? Those exist. Not legal in all states.

Yea I was going to post the same, I think many are worrying for nothing