Doctors Are Giving Mixed Messages About Vaping

[5150sick]

https://motherboard.vice.com/en_uk/read/doctors-are-giving-mixed-messages-about-vaping

I filed this under good because at least they are attempting to educate doctors with online class.
What they will tell the doctors? Who knows? - 5150

https://med.stanford.edu/cme/courses/online/e-cig.html

 

[Martin_tu]

Interestingly perhaps, I see no 'mixed messages' from the Parliamentary Office of Science and Technology (POST) in the UK. I do however see that the National Health System is permitting GP's (Family Doctors) to actually prescribe Vaporisers to smokers -at the governments expense.

"Advocates emphasise evidence pointing to lower health risks than from smoking tobacco and for their value as a tool to help people stop smoking.”

The update crushes any supposed suggestion that vaping causes a gateway effect by pointing out that smoking prevalence has declined across all age groups since surveys began in 1974, and is thought to reflect fewer people taking up smoking rather than increased quit rates. It emphasises the pressing need for a pro-active approach, not just in combatting premature deaths from smoking, but also by highlighting that smoking costs the NHS in England around £2bn per year. Of course, this is tempered by the knowledge that tobacco revenue currently runs at £9.5bn during the 2015-16 financial year.

<https://www.planetofthevapes.co.uk/...e=nl&utm_medium=news&utm_campaign=parliament>

 

[KDodds]

Prescription vaping? No thanks. That gum tastes bad enough, I don't dare imagine the flavors available from pharmaceutical vapor, or worse, government vapor.

 

[SirRichardRear]

Lets be honest here. Doctors are not going to (and shouldn't recommend) vaping to anyone. But in the same sense, that also applies to fast food, smoking, nicotine gum, soda, ice cream, potato chips, etc etc.

Doctors recommendations should pretty much be lean meat, vegetables, and water and nothing else. Obviously that's not realistic as most people aren't going to follow such strict guidelines. I haven't seen a doctor say vaping is worse then or equal to smoking and I doubt we will ever see that.

 

[AndriaD]

Prescription vaping? No thanks. That gum tastes bad enough, I don't dare imagine the flavors available from pharmaceutical vapor, or worse, government vapor.

That's a valid point, and also, "medicine" has very much a "one size fits all" approach, and we know very damn well that it just doesn't work that way with vaping. One reason I disliked patches (aside from their total ineffectiveness) is that even the lowest level of nic gives me heart palpitations, arrhythmia. Plus, the cost of needing to visit the doc to GET the prescription. That may be a non-issue in the UK, but that's definitely not the case in the US.

Andria

 

[AndriaD]

Lets be honest here. Doctors are not going to (and shouldn't recommend) vaping to anyone. But in the same sense, that also applies to fast food, smoking, nicotine gum, soda, ice cream, potato chips, etc etc.

Doctors recommendations should pretty much be lean meat, vegetables, and water and nothing else. Obviously that's not realistic as most people aren't going to follow such strict guidelines. I haven't seen a doctor say vaping is worse then or equal to smoking and I doubt we will ever see that.

Hmm... not necessarily true. I visited my doc for a checkup just before I started trying vaping in earnest, and I mentioned to him that I was considering it. He gave me a rather disconnected "hmm, that's nice" when I mentioned it, but on his way out the door, he looked up and said "I hope you try vaping, and that it helps to finally get you off cigarettes -- give it a shot!" So he wasn't *strictly* recommending it, I guess, but validating what I had already expressed as my own thoughts on the subject. Nothing the AMA could censure him for, but encouragement to me to try something new that interested me.

Andria

 

[KDodds]

You can't buy NicoDerm over the counter any longer?

 

[SirRichardRear]

Hmm... not necessarily true. I visited my doc for a checkup just before I started trying vaping in earnest, and I mentioned to him that I was considering it. He gave me a rather disconnected "hmm, that's nice" when I mentioned it, but on his way out the door, he looked up and said "I hope you try vaping, and that it helps to finally get you off cigarettes -- give it a shot!" So he wasn't *strictly* recommending it, I guess, but validating what I had already expressed as my own thoughts on the subject. Nothing the AMA could censure him for, but encouragement to me to try something new that interested me.

Andria

It's different when the doctor is talking directly to a patient compared to speaking out in public and putting his name on a statement that will be used in a court battle. Gotta cover your own ass these days.

 

[AndriaD]

It's different when the doctor is talking directly to a patient compared to speaking out in public and putting his name on a statement that will be used in a court battle. Gotta cover your own ass these days.

True. But there are a few docs on Twitter, who use their own real names, who do speak up for it. Granted, they're somewhat of a minority, but it does help counter all the ignoramuses on there, spouting nonsense. Then there's the Royal College of Physicians.

Andria

 

[JuicyLucy]

My doctor recognizes vaping as harm reduction and has been impressed with the reduction of the progress of my rheumatoid arthritis, which I've had for over 20 years.

Three years ago (still a 2.5 PAD smoker) it would take me close to an hour before I could actually stand up straight after sleeping. The joints in my fingers were beginning to eat into my bone tissue causing deformities in my fingers, particularly on my right hand. Been on steroids for close to 15 years. It was also beginning to negatively effect my vision.

I'm lucky, in that my GP is my age and is a former smoker. He'd been trying to get me to quit for ages, but also recognized that I probably would not, lol.
However, I did mention I was vaping (back when I was dual using) and he just said something along the lines that it had the potential to be harm reducing compared to smoking.

That was over two years ago. In the eight months I've been vaping exclusively, I have stopped taking all steroids, the "liver spots" on my hands have disappeared and along with the smokers hack. The joint distortion in my hands has almost completely halted and there is less pain in my hips and my vision has stabilized.

My joints are more flexible than when I was on the steroids and the pain is about 90% less than I was experiencing five years ago.

Vaping is a miracle to me and my doctor is on board with it, thankfully.

 

[AndriaD]

My doctor recognizes vaping as harm reduction and has been impressed with the reduction of the progress of my rheumatoid arthritis, which I've had for over 20 years.

Three years ago (still a 2.5 PAD smoker) it would take me close to an hour before I could actually stand up straight after sleeping. The joints in my fingers were beginning to eat into my bone tissue causing deformities in my fingers, particularly on my right hand. Been on steroids for close to 15 years. It was also beginning to negatively effect my vision.

I'm lucky, in that my GP is my age and is a former smoker. He'd been trying to get me to quit for ages, but also recognized that I probably would not, lol.
However, I did mention I was vaping (back when I was dual using) and he just said something along the lines that it had the potential to be harm reducing compared to smoking.

That was over two years ago. In the eight months I've been vaping exclusively, I have stopped taking all steroids, the "liver spots" on my hands have disappeared and along with the smokers hack. The joint distortion in my hands has almost completely halted and there is less pain in my hips and my vision has stabilized.

My joints are more flexible than when I was on the steroids and the pain is about 90% less than I was experiencing five years ago.

Vaping is a miracle to me and my doctor is on board with it, thankfully.

Are you still using WTA? One of the alkaloids in that is being tested on a number of different ailments characterized by inflammation, such as RA. I think that was what my body craved after the appendectomy, with the massive inflammation in my colon from sepsis and surgery.

Andria

 

[JuicyLucy]

Yes, but trying to eliminate it. Just too hard to get.

 

[Huckleberried]

My doctor recognizes vaping as harm reduction and has been impressed with the reduction of the progress of my rheumatoid arthritis, which I've had for over 20 years.

Three years ago (still a 2.5 PAD smoker) it would take me close to an hour before I could actually stand up straight after sleeping. The joints in my fingers were beginning to eat into my bone tissue causing deformities in my fingers, particularly on my right hand. Been on steroids for close to 15 years. It was also beginning to negatively effect my vision.

I'm lucky, in that my GP is my age and is a former smoker. He'd been trying to get me to quit for ages, but also recognized that I probably would not, lol.
However, I did mention I was vaping (back when I was dual using) and he just said something along the lines that it had the potential to be harm reducing compared to smoking.

That was over two years ago. In the eight months I've been vaping exclusively, I have stopped taking all steroids, the "liver spots" on my hands have disappeared and along with the smokers hack. The joint distortion in my hands has almost completely halted and there is less pain in my hips and my vision has stabilized.

My joints are more flexible than when I was on the steroids and the pain is about 90% less than I was experiencing five years ago.

Vaping is a miracle to me and my doctor is on board with it, thankfully.

That is so awesome!!! Good for you, Lucy, that's seriously powerful stuff.

 

[AndriaD]

Yes, but trying to eliminate it. Just too hard to get.

Yes, it may soon be impossible to get, which is why I made sure to wean off it as quickly as i could, still took 15 damn months. but it occurs to me that with RA, if something such as WTA should become a prescription medication, it would definitely be indicated for you to receive. I've suspected since I realized how deep BP is in all this, that they'd love to ban that shit, since it competes with both SSRIs and antiinflammatories... but maybe they'll release it as a prescription med, after it's banned at the consumer/OTC level.

Andria

 

[skt239]

I have a kinda serious illness that is the result of an overactive immune system. It affects my entire body but mainly the digestive system. I have to see a doctor every thirty days and take a butt load of meds along with infusions. I have a great doctor who practically begged me for years to quit smoking. I had tried to quit smoking many times but it was just so hard because the cigarettes actual helped with my abdominal pain. When I finally did quit my doctor was thrilled but I did not tell her that I had started vaping. About a month ago I was in for an appointment and emptied out my pockets before I laided down to have an exam.

When I pulled my mod out and set it down, she immediately asked me what the heck it was. She was fascinated by it (Vaporshark DNA200) because she had only seen cig-a-likes and had no idea how far the tech had come. I explained to her that I was reluctant to tell her because I was sure she would discourage me with the common mis/disinfo you would expect to hear from a doctor regarding vaping. I was surprised to hear she was actually a proponent of vaping and thought it was something that doctors should recommend. However, because of the "limited research" and the policy of her practice, she could not.

She is a professor at Hopkins (a friend of my fathers who recently retired from Hopkins) and had actually spoke out against a proposed ban on campus vaping. She also informed me that nicotine is actually beneficial to people who suffered from GI issues. So, there are some good doctors out there, they just need to be able to inform their patients.

 

[dcarpentier]

My doctor recognizes vaping as harm reduction and has been impressed with the reduction of the progress of my rheumatoid arthritis, which I've had for over 20 years.

Cool news, Lucy.
My mom had very severe RA, hands all twisted up and very limited mobility.
My wife's mom has fairly bad RA too, hands twisted up, but still not bad mobility.
If there's any inheritance factor, kinda makes me worry about both of us.. plus our own kids.
Gives me some hope to see that you have some sort of positive effect from vaping .

 

[Rossum]

maybe they'll release it as a prescription med, after it's banned at the consumer/OTC level.

There's very little profit in a drug that can't be patented.

 

[JuicyLucy]

Cool news, Lucy.
My mom had very severe RA, hands all twisted up and very limited mobility.
My wife's mom has fairly bad RA too, hands twisted up, but still not bad mobility.
If there's any inheritance factor, kinda makes me worry about both of us.. plus our own kids.
Gives me some hope to see that you have some sort of positive effect from vaping .

It's something to definitely be aware of and keep an eye open for symptoms, even in young people. I was diagnosed in my mid-thirties.

Mine is in my genes unfortunately. My younger brother has it so bad he's been on disability for a few years now, and he's never smoked. It crippled our grandma back in the day.

Oh, my liver spots on my hands all but disappeared too.

I think it will take a lot of experiences like ours, for doctors to see with their own eyes, to be able to compare medical test results from before and after smoking/vaping, before REAL science and real experiments will occur.

 

[AndriaD]

I have a kinda serious illness that is the result of an overactive immune system. It affects my entire body but mainly the digestive system. I have to see a doctor every thirty days and take a butt load of meds along with infusions. I have a great doctor who practically begged me for years to quit smoking. I had tried to quit smoking many times but it was just so hard because the cigarettes actual helped with my abdominal pain. When I finally did quit my doctor was thrilled but I did not tell her that I had started vaping. About a month ago I was in for an appointment and emptied out my pockets before I laided down to have an exam.

When I pulled my mod out and set it down, she immediately asked me what the heck it was. She was fascinated by it (Vaporshark DNA200) because she had only seen cig-a-likes and had no idea how far the tech had come. I explained to her that I was reluctant to tell her because I was sure she would discourage me with the common mis/disinfo you would expect to hear from a doctor regarding vaping. I was surprised to hear she was actually a proponent of vaping and thought it was something that doctors should recommend. However, because of the "limited research" and the policy of her practice, she could not.

She is a professor at Hopkins (a friend of my fathers who recently retired from Hopkins) and had actually spoke out against a proposed ban on campus vaping. She also informed me that nicotine is actually beneficial to people who suffered from GI issues. So, there are some good doctors out there, they just need to be able to inform their patients.

I've suffered IBS for quite a few years, and I'm pretty sure that nicotine helps with it a great deal! IBS is generally considered a stress-induced ailment, and lord knows nicotine helps with that, but I think it does have a direct affect on the colon, on nice stable peristalsis. But after my appendectomy, nic alone just wasn't getting it done -- but just as soon as I started using WTA, 1) cravings completely disappeared, and 2) the diarrhea and general digestive malaise I suffered in my recuperation vanished really fast too.

Andria

 

[AndriaD]

There's very little profit in a drug that can't be patented.

Well, if they can work out some *special* method of either extracting the particular alkaloid from nicotine, or better (and more expensively!) yet, synthesizing that particular alkaloid, they could probably patent it.

Andria

 

[Martin_tu]

Prescription vaping? No thanks. That gum tastes bad enough, I don't dare imagine the flavors available from pharmaceutical vapor, or worse, government vapor.

No, no juices, just mods and tanks, juices are you're own choice, (and cost) or you do DIY. I figure it may be an answer to sourcing decent nic at least, there's so much crap around these days.

Below is a National Health Service link to show how E-cigs are now included in recommended therapies, a little dated now (NHS have approved at least one device now) but AFAIK they have nothing like this in the states, as yet.

http://www.nhs.uk/conditions/smoking-(quitting)/Pages/Treatment.aspx

and: https://www.nhs.uk/smokefree/help-and-advice/e-cigarettes

and: http://www.nhs.uk/news/2013/06June/Pages/e-cigarettes-and-vaping.aspx

and: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/hea...-opening-way-for-prescription-by-the-NHS.html

 

[MaryDanforth]

Thanks for the advice.