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An Open Letter to the Person that dislikes My Indoor Vaping

Roger Schaeffer

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82% percent of adults do not smoke. The Social Norm is not to Smoke Indoors. Fact -Vapor does look Like Smoke.. If we as Vapers want the support[votes] of non smokers[who know little of E-Cigs but the propaganda in the Media] IMO Good Manners will go a long way. Your way
Local Governments will continue to add Electronic Cigarette to Indoor Smoking Bans with the support of the 82% of non smokers. But Hey its not about winning them over ,its about being Right-at least your version of being Right!
 

MoocH 1

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We've got to stop allowing people to sway the argument so far as to give up our freedoms. These ideas are designed to make us go "well, at least we can keep it." Pretty soon they'll come after that too. If politics and concession has taught us anything it's that; once you're on the ropes, they aren't letting you leave gracefully.
 

Superjeep

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How is vaping indoors in a public area usually owned by a private company or by the government your right? Do you riot because a place has a "No shirt, No shoes No service" sign? Lots of people think vaping stinks. What right do you or anyone have going around indoors blowing thick vapor clouds. Vapor IS thick, thicker than smoke frankly. It hangs in the air an can be very unpleasant to me a vapor depending on the flavor so I can only imagine what a none smoker or non vapor might think. Taste and smell are very subjective. People have allergies to pg/vg and nicotine and I have seen first hand people that literally break out around vapor. If I had a child and did not know much if anything about vaping why would I want my kid around that? Its a fucking crazy argument.

None of your freedoms are being taken away. Your free to not visit or shop at those places. This is the same argument airline passengers tried to make in the 70's when they could not smoke on a plane any more. "Your taking away my freedoms!" Your free to vape outdoors, in your car or at home or free to find a establishment that allows it but vaping is not a god, government or constitutional given right just because its "suspected" to be safer than smoking.

This idea that if your not allowed to vape everywhere you wont be allowed anywhere is silly imo. This specific matter comes down to common courtesy and basic human decency and if the very small minority of the "protest vapors" would follow those concepts we wouldnt have half the issues we do now as far as where we vape.
 

Jonathan Tittle

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Given that I enjoy sub-ohm'ing, prefer 40/60 or 30/70 PG/VG ratios and dislike taking short puffs, I feel it's a bit rude to vape indoors and unleash a plume of vapor unless it's in a vape shop, my own home/yard, a friends home (if they're okay with it) or an area that allows you to vape (i.e. you've asked if it's okay in the place of business).

Just because you're not burning a plant doesn't mean you can vape anywhere, anytime. Some people do indeed feel that some of the flavors we, as vapers, vape, stink (even I think that with some - vape licorice, anise or cherry around me and I'll tell you the same because those flavors make me nauseous - I can't eat them, whether real flavor or artificial, much less vape them).

Common courtesy and manors go a long long way. In a small shop, 2-3 vapers can easily fog it up quick. It happened at a Starbucks I was visiting while out on business. A few people felt it was their right to do whatever they want, so they quickly began pushing massive clouds (think cloud competition clouds) and had the entire shop in a haze. It's not your business, it's not your property. If they ask you to stop, you can stop and stay or leave.
 

MoocH 1

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If you read the original article it is clearly biased to the vaper purely based on the authors preference. We aren't talking rules, we're talking one respected customer having the right to control another customer. Why have we come to this place where we are guilty of bothering people just as soon as we walk in? When did having rights ever mean I have to systematically walk table to table ensuring that not one person will have an issue with something I am doing? I guarantee you no matter what the task; being on your laptop, a cell phone, wearing cologne; if you ask 100 people, someone will have a problem with what you are doing. Is that where my freedom ends? The author I wrote this in retort to wasn't talking about respecting businesses, she was talking about her personal preferences. She didn't even mention the majority...just herself. My freedom ends when she says so.

And what is this assumption that a person like the author would even know I'm vaping? Are we all the same style of vaper now? You're telling me there's no difference between the cig-a-like and a box mod? Why are we so ready to give into the opposing sides view's? You don't really think that's playing in the middle do you? The best way to win a fight is to get small concessions repeatedly until your opponent is just happy to win any round at all. That's what is happening here. My post NEVER said I would refuse to go outside. In fact, it clearly stated that I agree to do just that if I'm asked by an employee to do so. Claire , on the other hand, doesn't make the local bar's decisions. She doesn't know if I'm friends with the bar owner and doesn't give a fuck. She can't be bothered with any vapor or any vaper. At what point does this apply to the smell of your cologne?

You've taken upon yourself to lump my ideology with the "vape activist" ideas of performing sit ins. I'm clearly talking to one person and one type of people. Under her ideas, I can ask a person to leave if I dislike the smell of their food. That sounds crazy right? What's the difference? If Claire is in the minority (people who can't stand the one guy vaping in the corner) then she has just as many people pissed off at her attitude as I do. She has the problem... why should I be the one to go away? I don't even know that the problem exists until she refuses to remedy it for herself. I'm the last guy that wants vapor in my food and the truth is that Claire probably developed this attitude when a group of assholes disregarded her feelings whilst fogging up an applebees... but I don't speak for them or they for me. I'm not their parent. Articles like hers get the community treated in a second class citizen position just by our being there. I don't want to vape all over her... likewise I don't want her at my table telling me what kind of customer I'm allowed to be.

Man...I remember two years ago when we were arguing about the safety of vaping versus traditional cigarettes...now we're arguing about staying out of the cold. They got just what they wanted. We're entering the political landscape as the defenseless lucky bastards who should just be happy that we get to vape at all.

Let the establishment decide. Don't condemn me or purport to have me leave just because the site of a box mod makes you upset. I didn't vape all over you. Most people I know wouldn't. Yes, it's easier to have a one size fits all rule. It would also be easier for your government to control your internet access and block whatever info they wanted...easier to them. It would be easier if we were all Baptist. Lots of things are easier if technology would just stop. Well, boohoo. Advancements happen and people have to learn to adapt as they continue to become clearer. That's a byproduct of innovation. It has nothing to do with courtesy.

In my opinion every trendy, hip, shifty eye'd , wanna be- would never be allowed anywhere near my coffee shop. But I understand that their offensive inability to dress themselves for public appearance doesn't mean I should tell them to leave. Just because some of them can't behave themselves in public doesn't give me the right to ask ALL of them if they would "please take their free will down a notch."

Again- The author was not a manger. She didn't approach the cloud chasers and she wasn't talking to our more selfish of the tribe. She was aiming at all of us.
We're all gonna be in public. Your kid is gonna be around peanuts. If your kid is allergic to peanuts, keep your kid the fuck away from peanuts. Don't go to a public place where peanuts might be and tell the peanut eater that he's an asshole. Why can't we police ourselves to the point where we understand that not everyone will think the same way? If the establishment says don't vape...I don't cry foul... I just don't vape. If the establish says they don't mind I'm going to vape. Anyone that thinks I'm out of line for doing so is playing politics backwards or being bullied. We're not guilty yet guys...let's stop admittin to crimes before they hatch.
Thanks for reading.
 

Superjeep

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Your really equating vapor with the smell of food and a kid being allergic to peanuts being around peanuts? Are you trolling right now? Vapor does not go where you want it. It is not controlled. I do not really care about the article or frankly if a place allows vaping or not. What I am pointing out is vaping in a public indoor place is not the same as having to smell someones food. A parent can make sure their kid does not eat a peanut if its in the room but if your vaping in the corner they have no choice but to smell it and literally be in it because it hangs in the air for a very long time and spreads.

You do vape all over other people. You might not mean to and I certainly am not saying I think you do it on purpose but if your in a indoor area and vaping then yes you are vaping all over people. Vape in your living room or closed garage and then step out side for a second and take a couple deep breaths and then go back in and you will smell, see and damn near feel the haze in the room. A person that does not vape 9 times out of 10 most likely does not want to sit in a vape cloud and thats why several of your arguments do not work because we are talking about something that forces people around you to breath, smell and essentially be covered by your byproduct.

Let me make something clear if I could. If a place allows vaping then Im fine with it. I am not arguing that. I personally will not vape anywhere but a bar that allows it and has a steady percentage of people doing it because after I quit smoking I realized in the 6 months after that just how clueless I was to how my smoke and smell effected others and I try really hard to not do that with my vaping. My main bone of contention is with this idea that vaping is a right and because its not smoking and safer(in theory) it should be allowed everywhere.

I agree with some of what you said but unfortunately for every 1000 responsible vapors who goes in a place with a cig-a-like or small mod to stealth vape you get 1 douche bag with his mech or god box who in less than 60 seconds fogs the place up because he thinks the world revolves around him and that its his "right" to vape because the internet told him its safer than smoking and ruins it for the rest of us. If I lumped you in with that one person I do apologize because I do not know you and shouldnt make that assumption.
 

MoocH 1

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On the other hand; I keep discrete and I'm not unaware that other's don't. It's not that I can't see the advantages of avoiding the entire thing. I think we have the right to question it though...
Let me make something clear if I could. If a place allows vaping then Im fine with it. I am not arguing that. I personally will not vape anywhere but a bar that allows it and has a steady percentage of people doing it because after I quit smoking I realized in the 6 months after that just how clueless I was to how my smoke and smell effected others and I try really hard to not do that with my vaping. My main bone of contention is with this idea that vaping is a right and because its not smoking and safer(in theory) it should be allowed everywhere.

I agree with some of what you said but unfortunately for every 1000 responsible vapors who goes in a place with a cig-a-like or small mod to stealth vape you get 1 douche bag with his mech or god box who in less than 60 seconds fogs the place up because he thinks the world revolves around him and that its his "right" to vape because the internet told him its safer than smoking and ruins it for the rest of us. If I lumped you in with that one person I do apologize because I do not know you and shouldnt make that assumption.
I think we found some common consensus here; my point with writing a snarky rebuttal to Claire's "one size fits all" diatribe, was that it pained every situation the same. It was bitchy on purpose. Claire was even insulted that we vapers commit fashion faux pas. Even in situations with managerial clearance I'm being rude to Claire because I don't know Claire's guide to acceptable behavior. Her beef wasn't with health or concern to other's. She plainly wanted us to stop because she says so. Claire is not Stone Cold.

I have no interest in bothering other people, but I would like the ability to demonstrate that. If people like her get their way- we won't be vaping in any public environment. She's not tallying "manners" points...she just wants it stopped because a chorus of uneducated people will sing her praises as she slam dunks the non controversial angle on a blog. I took a harder road, man.

Businesses should have the right to obtain my patronage by catering to my consumer base. And other businesses have the right to tell me to go fuck myself. It should at least be a choice... People like Claire want to go ANYWHERE and be the one reason I have to stop what I'm already doing.
That onto itself, no matter how trivial, is a trampling of rights. It's my right until it isn't. I'm not even a cause junky dude, I just understand the basic principals of rights. I want to make the choice to put down a mod because there are too many people. I want to decide when it's best to go outside. Give me the chance to be courteous.

People use their cell phones in starbucks all the time. I do not. I go outside...but I have no right to ask them to leave. I get it. I came to a public place.

Anyways, I'll have you know that I'm equally as dismissive to the folks that gave Claire her bad attitude as I am to her for having one. Chances are she was bullied by some table of vapers that over stepped their decency. If it were my establishment I would ask them to leave and realize that some e cig users make the conscience choice to not offend anyone. It's the right of a business to do that.
 

cherrycakes

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So we can't vape indoors what's next not being able to vape outside in our own homes???
 

lordmage

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some states want to ban vaping in what they call an enclosed space ie your car , your appt and your home if it is to close to people under 18. if i read them correctly anyway.

most state are simply amending the clean indoor air act aka anti smoking policies, some state are taking it further and want to classify are vape as smoke and if that came to pass. if you're not allowed to smoke there, vape is banned as well including outside public venues like state parks.
 

st_andrew

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Smoking wasn't made illegal in restaurants because it smelled bad. It was made illegal because it was harmful for the staff and other patrons. If I want to vape indoors it should be up to the owner of the business to make that decision. Because other people can smell it is ludicrous. What about Cologne and perfume, they give me headaches, but I can't go saying how dare they wear it. I have to deal with it and if I don't like it I can leave. Also to your the whole "vaping is safer theory" comment, the world is round is just a theory too.
Nobody wants to walk in and see a guy cloud chasing in a restaurant. That's being disrespectful to everyone there. But to the lone guy stealth vaping in the corner, it's up to the establishment. Also I bet that lady would of rather smell the vapor than if he farted and hey that's legal.
 
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fq06

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I dont impose my vaping on others, I vape in the smoking section if that is enforced in the area I'm at and never indoors (in public).

I know that when I vape while watching tv I just about have to have ventilation or the room becomes a fog bank very quickly to the point of obstructing my view. A non smoker/vaper will not be impressed.

Most non smokers see vapeing the same as smoking, to them I may as well light up an analog indoors.

Why push it to test the limits and end up having a pissed off soccer mom who is sleeping with the mayor get vapeing banned everywhere in the city?
 

st_andrew

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Stealth vaping is taking a discreet drag every now and then, not puffing away for 10 min. We need to educate people about vaping. People need to learn that vaping isn't smoking. This is just how I view it. I'm worried they will ban smoking indoors. I know some don't care, but I like vaping in my vape shop and at a bar every now and then. This should be up to the owners. Let them make their own rules for their own business.
 

Superjeep

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I have never advocated for banning vaping in public indoor places. What I do try to advocate for is that vapors in a sense ban themselves from vaping in certain places unless they know it is a vape friendly establishment. I am playing devils advocate on a pro vaping forum with the hopes people will realize that vaping does effect others. The more people that realize that going into a random cafe or shop and fogging it up like its your living room is bad for us as a whole because that will lead to eventual bans when enough people complain.

If everyone was considerate and stealth vaped this would not even be a issue but unfortunately thats not the case. My point was that vaping in public indoor places is not a right. Its not a law that was given to us and every time one of those people from that very small minority of protest vapors or just an inconsiderate person goes in and makes a spectacle of him or herself vaping with reckless abandon we are one step closer to the privilege of vaping in places like that being taken away.

Think of it this way. The less we vape in family friendly places the longer we will be able to legally vape in vape shops and bars that allow it.
 

st_andrew

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I agree with a lot of your points. Vapers shouldn't act like asses. The corner coffee shop isn't your living room, don't act like it. But I don't think it's the law makers design to ban in indoor areas. It should be the owners decision. It comes down to common courtesy and common sense. We just need to use it
 

Nancy_Bout

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Honestly ... Nobody said nothing to me in in NJ I stealth Vape and nobody even noticed lol even in a waiting room at the dentist. No big clouds just small and they do NOT notice! However people do have a right to want to avoid it my husband alone... I blow it the other way so it don't go in his face some flavors he despises others he don't.
 

Drone

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I could care less either way at this point. Rude people are going to be rude and think they have more and better rights than others. This applies to both uncivilized vapers that think they have the right to blow clouds anywhere and whiny little bitches that just want to complain and spoil everyone's day with regulation and restrictions that makes the world conform to their narrow vision. There is no cure for either. This is exacerbated by the views of news reporting agencies that have a massive amount of influence over the general population and choose to make news rather than report it. And of course the government that has a fiscal agenda that is best served by handing the vaping industry in a very large part to BT so they can extract the maximum amount of revenue to fill the national coffers. The reality is that our time vaping in public is drawing to a close and there is really nothing we can do about it, the vaping community is just not organized enough to make a difference. We are too small a group that enjoys infighting more than activism, so we will be ostracized just like smokers. Not a matter of if, just when. We might stave off the vaping in public ban hammer for the short term, but it's a battle that is doomed to failure in the long run.

I'm not a pessimist, just a realist. I wish it was otherwise but reality is what it is. This isn't to say I'm one of the sheeple that will blindly and willing participate. I just have to be prepared to be self sufficient in my vaping as our vaping rights are infringed upon inch by inch.
 

Mommay

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I read the article in it's entirety. First off, it was classified as "Opinion" & Etiquette" The opinion is strictly hers. She admits that she will eventually move away from you or vice versa. Granted, her reference to dog vs cat poop was an attention-getter & evidently an irritant to you & most likely others. It got our attentIon, the purpose of a good leading point- iT keeps us interested- some may be pissed, but they're still reading. IMO, she is asking that we put our devices away in close quarters. Specifically stated were planes, cafes & restaurants. I agree, it's rude to vape in those areas. It's often tight quarters & vapor (& it's aroma - or odor, depending on your stance) travels to surrounding patrons.

When I was a smoker, I would NEVER sit in the smoking section, because the odor bothered me & interfered with the enjoyment of my meal. Likewise, if I'm seated next to children, I usually ask to be moved, unless they are extremely well behaved. I do not want to spend my hard to come by funds for an unpleasant dining experience. I'm very sensitive to smells & sounds, so I try to adjust my environment - just like the author, who doesn't frequent bars that allow indoor vaping. That is her perogative & way of avoiding the situation.

Any trained chef will tell you that presentation, aroma & taste are all very important components of a successful dining experience. As a vapor, and considerate human being, I have no overt desire to have an effect (good or bad) on anothers dining experience.

I don't believe that she has any business mentioning the names of eliquids or stating mod holsters as "ridiculous". However, the statement allowed her to grab the reader's attention again, by causing an emotional reaction. Again, basic journalism, & it worked. Then came what she wanted to have your attention to say (paraphrase) it's annoying, some people are sensitive to scents to the point of getting a headache (think of those awful cologne reps who used to spritz you as you were coming off the escalator in a dept store) and allergies can occur. Face it, most of the time, we don't even known the contents of what we are vaping. I don't vape in tight quarters with my grandchildren, for their protection, until we understand more about the chemicals in our liquids. My sister & I travel a lot together. I always ask her how it smells to her. Depending on her interpretation, I either continue, crack my window or switch flavors. And, yes, I am one of those people that are so sensitive to smell that some colognes actually make me nauseous. I have asked another department head to please not apply her cologne prior to our morning staff meetings & honestly told her why. She had the "right" to apply whatever/whenever she wanted. However, she had enough respect for my feelings/wellbeing to wait an hour to exercise that "right". I appreciated that small delay & we worked together, in harmony, for 10 years.

The author's last paragraph is actually worded to compliment & favor vaping. She just doesn't want to have to smell it on planes, in cafes & restaurants. Is that so unreasonable?

First & foremost, this article was about her opinion, etiquette and the consideration of others. We lose nothing by considering others. But, we could lose it all, if we don't.
 

Mommay

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TTT. I think this is interesting enough to get other opinions. What about it VUnpeeps?
 

Warhawk-AVG

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We've got to stop allowing people to sway the argument so far as to give up our freedoms. These ideas are designed to make us go "well, at least we can keep it." Pretty soon they'll come after that too. If politics and concession has taught us anything it's that; once you're on the ropes, they aren't letting you leave gracefully.

“Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.”

Getting really tired of nannystatist jackbooted douchnozzles...

It offends me so you can't do it...stupid fuckers
 

Warhawk-AVG

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Stealth vaping is taking a discreet drag every now and then, not puffing away for 10 min. We need to educate people about vaping. People need to learn that vaping isn't smoking. This is just how I view it. I'm worried they will ban smoking indoors. I know some don't care, but I like vaping in my vape shop and at a bar every now and then. This should be up to the owners. Let them make their own rules for their own business.
I thought stealth vaping was taking a hit...holding it in for a count of 10 then exhaling and having virtually NO vapor leave your mouth/nose and if it did, it instantly dissipates

My city banned smoking everywhere, even at bars...yet the asshats DON'T enforce it...and they even applied the rule to vaping...and this is in Texas
They are the same douchenozzles that put in red light cameras...then WE defeated them...but they still sold out our vote (they actually nullified the vote which means later on they can re-introduce them and our vote more or less never happened)
http://abc13.com/archive/8380529/

With that said, "common courtesy" is about as common as sense it seems

But that's ok...we will just let the goverment TELL us what we can or can't do...not like it will become a problem...right?
 

Damwow

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Has anyone tried the vapor less Vape? I just saw it it, but c ant remeber where! Maybe Madvapes, I am not sure. Been thinking of trying it though!
 

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