What am I not understanding...

[ralph029]

Alrighty folks... Can someone explain why I'm getting some major differences. Let me lay it out for you.

26 ga 316L 7.5 wrap 3.0 mm coils
LG HB6 18650
Goon 24

If I apply ohms law on an unregulated mod, the law says I should be pushing 60.8 watts of power (assuming 4.2 v) to the coil. This all "tastes" about right. Warm, not too hot vapor. I can pull several hits in a row without any real heat build up. Coils and wicking last about a 5 - 7 days before I have to rewick and clean my coils (or just replace).

If I put these in a regulate mod (with a DNA 166 or 200) I cannot run these any higher than 45 watts. Even at 45, the "taste" is shitty and the coils and wicking burn out in about two days time. The DNA board confirms the resistance but the voltage drops to 4.0 (not that big of a deal as the wattage reduces just 5 watts to 55.2).

What am I not understanding here? Why? I am not running the regulated mod in TC, only in wattage mode.

Devices used:
Kennedy Roundhouse 2
Vaporshark 166
Lost Vape Drone.

 

[Train]

Did you measure the resistance?
Looks to me like about 0.55 ohms for that build.
Which would make the mech version only about 32 watts.

Also, you really can't use 4.2 for planning, as batteries drop pretty quickly from 4.2 to the 3.9-4.0 range, which is where most of the run-time is.

I plan my builds for that, and for the first few minutes, "ooh - it's got a little extra kick!".

So - if you're really vaping 0.55 at 3.9 volts, that's under 30 watts.
(It's also not far from where I vape, all the time - about a wrap-and-a-half less, for 0.45 ohms)

 

[Train]

Oh, wait. Derp. Duals, huh?
That makes your question valid - you'd be around 55 watts I guess...
And so I'm stumped!

I'll go with, "because mechs are better".

 

[ralph029]

Did you measure the resistance?
Looks to me like about 0.55 ohms for that build.
Which would make the mech version only about 32 watts.

Also, you really can't use 4.2 for planning, as batteries drop pretty quickly from 4.2 to the 3.9-4.0 range, which is where most of the run-time is.

I plan my builds for that, and for the first few minutes, "ooh - it's got a little extra kick!".

So - if you're really vaping 0.55 at 3.9 volts, that's under 30 watts.
(It's also not far from where I vape, all the time - about a wrap-and-a-half less, for 0.45 ohms)

I did measure the resistance, Three different ways: Fluke, 521 Mini, and the DNA board itself.
I understand about the difference between the 4.2 and 3.9 - 4.0 voltage but in an attempt to keep it consistent, I just used the 4.2 number. That shouldn't affect the drastic difference in watts through the regulated mod or the horrible wicking and coil life.

 

[midknight420]

How right are you packing your cotton? If the cotton is too tight then it will choke and burn.

Sent from my LGMS550 using Tapatalk

 

[The Cromwell]

Alrighty folks... Can someone explain why I'm getting some major differences. Let me lay it out for you.

26 ga 316L 7.5 wrap 3.0 mm coils
LG HB6 18650
Goon 24

If I apply ohms law on an unregulated mod, the law says I should be pushing 60.8 watts of power (assuming 4.2 v) to the coil. This all "tastes" about right. Warm, not too hot vapor. I can pull several hits in a row without any real heat build up. Coils and wicking last about a 5 - 7 days before I have to rewick and clean my coils (or just replace).

If I put these in a regulate mod (with a DNA 166 or 200) I cannot run these any higher than 45 watts. Even at 45, the "taste" is shitty and the coils and wicking burn out in about two days time. The DNA board confirms the resistance but the voltage drops to 4.0 (not that big of a deal as the wattage reduces just 5 watts to 55.2).

What am I not understanding here? Why? I am not running the regulated mod in TC, only in wattage mode.

Devices used:
Kennedy Roundhouse 2
Vaporshark 166
Lost Vape Drone.

You are only getting about 3.8 at the most volts out of the battery under load.
Depending on the resistance of your coil and how many amps you are drawing.
And that is with a FULLY charged battery it will go down as you use the battery.

 

[ralph029]

I'll go with, "because mechs are better".

Amen! brother. Unfortunately I travel all the time and need the regulated mod until my Boxer BF and my Signature Mod BF arrive. At that point I can simply ditch all my regulated mods and and just go with mechanical squankers!

 

[ralph029]

How right are you packing your cotton? If the cotton is too tight then it will choke and burn.

Sent from my LGMS550 using Tapatalk

I think I'm good with the cotton. I pack pretty consistent and well. I really struggled with cotton in the beginning of this whole vape adventure. Once I switched to VCC cotton, I haven't had any trouble with wicking in anything I've played around with.

 

[ralph029]

You are only getting about 3.8 at the most volts out of the battery under load.
Depending on the resistance of your coil and how many amps you are drawing.
And that is with a FULLY charged battery it will go down as you use the battery.

Yep, I understand that but I put in fresh batteries in the Kennedy every day and in the others when needed. So it's not like the batteries are way down and the there's not enough wattage flowing through the coils over the course of the week that the coils and wicking lasts.

 

[The Cromwell]

Check out Mooch's charts here for the voltage drop under load for the HB6.
https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/f...-the-best-performer-hb2-vs-hb4-vs-hb6.734220/

 

[The Cromwell]

Yep, I understand that but I put in fresh batteries in the Kennedy every day and in the others when needed. So it's not like the batteries are way down and the there's not enough wattage flowing through the coils over the course of the week that the coils and wicking lasts.

According to Mooch's chart the HB6 will drop to 3.4 volts with a 30 amp load.
I know you are not pushing that but I suspect it will be around 3.7 for a 15-20 amp load.
the output of an 18650 li batt drops under load. How much depends on the internal resistance of the battery and how much load is applied.

 

[ralph029]

According to Mooch's chart the HB6 will drop to 3.4 volts with a 30 amp load.
I know you are not pushing that but I suspect it will be around 3.7 for a 15-20 amp load.
the output of an 18650 li batt drops under load. How much depends on the internal resistance of the battery and how much load is applied.

So, maybe this is the answer... If I use 3.7 volts that brings the wattage much closer to 47.2. But I still cannot vape at 45 watts for any length of time as the vapor just develops a burned flavor.

I don't think there is anything wrong, I'm just trying to understand the intricacies of how all this works.

 

[The Cromwell]

So, maybe this is the answer... If I use 3.7 volts that brings the wattage much closer to 47.2. But I still cannot vape at 45 watts for any length of time as the vapor just develops a burned flavor.

I don't think there is anything wrong, I'm just trying to understand the intricacies of how all this works.

If you have a volt meter. Pop the top of the atty and have someone measure voltage from pos post to neg post while firing the atty to see how much voltage is getting to the coil.
You will then be able to accurately calculate the wattage it is running at.
and it will be more accurate than the regulated mod is showing as the wattage. Very few of them are spot on and some are way off on some ranges of resistance.

Hold the mod still and do not short it out while measuring

It is a common misconception for people running mechs to think they are running higher watts than they actually are. In addition to battery voltage sag there will be some voltage loss in the mod which will increase the lower resistance your atty is.

 

[ralph029]

If you have a volt meter. Pop the top of the atty and have someone measure voltage from pos post to neg post while firing the atty to see how much voltage is getting to the coil.
You will then be able to accurately calculate the wattage it is running at.
and it will be more accurate than the regulated mod is showing as the wattage. Very few of them are spot on and some are way off on some ranges of resistance.

Hold the mod still and do not short it out while measuring

It is a common misconception for people running mechs to think they are running higher watts than they actually are. In addition to battery voltage sag there will be some voltage loss in the mod which will increase the lower resistance your atty is.

I have another thread where I was asking about this point in particular and didn't get a lot of help. I think that this is a super idea and will do it. I have a fair amount of experience handling a Fluke so I shouldn't be in too much danger but you never know. If you never hear from me again...

IYO, is it worth doing this to build coils to maximize what the battery can perform at routinely?

 

[The Cromwell]

IYO, is it worth doing this to build coils to maximize what the battery can perform at routinely?

Naah unless you drop your resistance on your coils quite a bit. Then you might want to check the actual voltage applied to the coil.
I look at things from a technical standpoint since I am an electronics tech.
About 45 yrs worth so far

good luck, wear your welding goggles
JK on the goggles but eye protection would be a good idea in case of sparks or spitting juice.

 

[ralph029]

Naah unless you drop your resistance on your coils quite a bit. Then you might want to check the actual voltage applied to the coil.
I look at things from a technical standpoint since I am an electronics tech.
About 45 yrs worth so far

good luck, wear your welding goggles
JK on the goggles but eye protection would be a good idea in case of sparks or spitting juice.

I actually have about 10 years of Aviation Electronics experience plus another decade of working on motorcycle electronics. I really should be fine. But welding goggles sure would make me look cool right up until I arc across the posts since I wouldn't really be able to see

 

[Train]

I've got a Signature SQ pre-ordered, too!!!

Wasn't really planning to buy anything, but saw the pre-order open, and it's got a lot I like!

Amen! brother. Unfortunately I travel all the time and need the regulated mod until my Boxer BF and my Signature Mod BF arrive. At that point I can simply ditch all my regulated mods and and just go with mechanical squankers!

 

[ralph029]

I've got a Signature SQ pre-ordered, too!!!
Wasn't really planning to buy anything, but saw the pre-order open, and it's got a lot I like!

Awww... how cute is that? "Wasn't planning on buying anything". I'm pretty sure that most of our purchases fall under that label. It feels like it's been 4 years since I put that Boxer BF on preorder. I did order that Skywalker BF RDA from Fasttech and I have to say, for $15 it is close to all my Goons for performance. I got it in like a week too.

 

[~Don~]

I'm curious why you would use HB6's with your build? 1500mAh compared to almost any other 20a capable battery with more run time...

This is my thinking...316L fluctuates in ohms... and for instance... .15 cold is .17 heated... your build guessing .27-.28 cold is more like .30 heated...

59w before sag...and more in lines like 45w in actual vaping.

Edit: I am wanting the Boxer BF also...but I am going to wait for it to be in stock...cause if I PO now, it arrives approx the same time if I wait til mid July and order

 

[ralph029]

I'm curious why you would use HB6's with your build? 1500mAh compared to almost any other 20a capable battery with more run time...

This is my thinking...316L fluctuates in ohms... and for instance... .15 cold is .17 heated... your build guessing .27-.28 cold is more like .30 heated...

59w before sag...and more in lines like 45w in actual vaping.

Here is my thinking, however flawed it might be and I"m all for getting some schooling at any time.

Better safe than sorry if I decide to start building more exotic coils but in all honestly, the coils I mentioned above are really my standard go to coils. In listening to Mooch's vids, he talks a lot about the batteries running very cool. I live in Satan's winter home, Phoenix. I thought the if I could do anything to help with heat, I should. So far I haven't had any issues with the limits of the 1500 mAh.

 

[HondaDavidson]

Your feeling the difference between constant power sullied to the atty regulated vs decending power supplied to the atty....

A mech mod supplies power on a decending scale... it's always going lower voltage..hit start at a wattage and finishes at a lower wattage... regulated maintains power to maintain a fixed output. Wattage is always the set value.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk

 

[ralph029]

Your feeling the difference between constant power sullied to the atty regulated vs decending power supplied to the atty....

A mech mod supplies power on a decending scale... it's always going lower voltage..hit start at a wattage and finishes at a lower wattage... regulated maintains power to maintain a fixed output. Wattage is always the set value.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk

I figured that played into the problem but did not realize it would be that drastic. Thanks for the input.