Question on making flavor bases...

[RZAwora]

I want to make some "flavor bases" of some recipes, several that I have found on here. I have done this before successfully with a couple recipes, but not with ones that involve the ingredients I am asking about here. I want to know if it is okay to use ingredients such as Koolada, Ethol Maltyl, Acetyl Pyrazine, Citric Acid, etc in a flavor base at their proper ratio? I guess my question is more or less will it still yield the same result/flavor?

For example...
HIC Coffee Break (one I like):
2% FA Cuban Supreme (33.30%)
2% FA Coffee Expresso (33.40%)
2% FA Caramel (33.30%)

I make this into a 30ml flavor base that consist of:
33.3% FA Cuban Supreme
33.3% FA Coffee Expresso
33.4% FA Caramel

Then for my wife and friends, when they say, "Oh, I really like that, can you make me some?" I can easily whip up a bottle with their PG/VG/NIC preference. I simply start with 6% of the flavor base and adjust the amount of flavor based on their flavor preference.

How about something like this...
HIC Swiss Bliss (haven't tried yet, but I will be soon):
3% FA Cocoa
2% FA Chocolate
1.5-2% Acetyl Pyrazine

Which in a base, if I went with 1.75% of AP, would be:
44.5% FA Cocoa
29.6% FA Chocolate
25.9% Acetyl Pyrazine

Ultimately my question is, if I have a flavor base that consists of 5%, or even 25%-30%, of AP or Koolada, or something along those lines, that is the correct ratio as per the recipe, will it yield the same results/flavor as other flavoring ingredients used in a base? I hope I made that clear enough, especially including the example, if not please let me know so I can word it differently. Thanks in advance for any and all input...

 

[HeadInClouds]

I can tell you those recipes and others with ap work just fine for me like that!

I don't use most of the other additives you mentioned.

 

[RZAwora]

Thanks HIC... and not just for this answer... but everything you share with all of us. From the recipes, to the detail analysis and comparisons on flavors, and everything in between.

Anyone have any input on if using Koolada the same way is okay? I'd like to assume so based on logic, but I just want to be sure the Koolada doesn't become over-powering, or diminish, and that the integrity of the flavor is maintained. I could do my own experiment, but wanted to see if anyone has an experienced answer first.

 

[Smoky Blue]

koolada will fade after 3 days

if you mix like that and you have flavors that need steeping and not a shake and vape deal.. it will not begin until the nic base is added to the flavoring..
and id be careful using ap at 5%, unless you like burnt corn chips..

 

[HeadInClouds]

koolada will fade after 3 days

if you mix like that and you have flavors that need steeping and not a shake and vape deal.. it will not begin until the nic base is added to the flavoring..
and id be careful using ap at 5%, unless you like burnt corn chips..

He's making a flavoring-only bottle, and he's doing it just right!

 

[Smoky Blue]

have at it and good luck!

btw.. sub .5% menthol for that koolada.. will give the same effect without fading.

 

[HeadInClouds]

have at it and good luck!

No "luck" required, Smoky - just basic math skills, which RZ obviously has.

 

[RZAwora]

Thanks for your input too Smoky, it's much appreciated. I've learned quite a bit reading from you as well.

I have seen you write the same thing many of times before about Koolada fading after 3 days. However from my experience it doesn't seem to fade like that for me. I have juices I've made weeks ago that have Koolada and you can still feel it vaping them today. Not sure why that is. I purchased my Koolada in a 120ml jug from ecigexpress awhile back. Is it possible there are different versions floating around?

I know the steeping process won't begin until I mix the individual bottles, and that is okay. Thanks for pointing that out as well though for others who may come across this thread.

I don't have any recipes that require 5% AP in the finished recipe, but I have some that would call for 25%+ in a flavor base though. I personally have yet to use AP at all...but it is on its way to me now.

I'm aware of using menthol solution for coolness in the vape, but menthol just doesn't sit well with all recipes.

Thanks again for your inputs...

 

[AmandaD]

I make flavor bases for all my favorite mixes, generally in little 6ml bottles - but for mixes I use all the time I make 15ml bottles! It saves so much time that way, as you say, and keeping the same ratios is simple. Flavors don't fade at all until they're put into a nic base.

 

[Smoky Blue]

Thanks for your input too Smoky, it's much appreciated. I've learned quite a bit reading from you as well.

I have seen you write the same thing many of times before about Koolada fading after 3 days. However from my experience it doesn't seem to fade like that for me. I have juices I've made weeks ago that have Koolada and you can still feel it vaping them today. Not sure why that is. I purchased my Koolada in a 120ml jug from ecigexpress awhile back. Is it possible there are different versions floating around?

I know the steeping process won't begin until I mix the individual bottles, and that is okay. Thanks for pointing that out as well though for others who may come across this thread.

I don't have any recipes that require 5% AP in the finished recipe, but I have some that would call for 25%+ in a flavor base though. I personally have yet to use AP at all...but it is on its way to me now.

I'm aware of using menthol solution for coolness in the vape, but menthol just doesn't sit well with all recipes.

Thanks again for your inputs...

i picked up my first bottle of koolada from wizardslab.. then from tfa, direct.. both fade on me..
however, i do have a new product from a new company and well i am very impressed..
depending on the level, you can have a chilly tounge or go full max and have a cold rush down your throat..
it's good
it's in prototype stages right now.. but if i hear anything on when it is coming out, will pop something up..


i just dont do bases either, i used to long time ago..
now i just line things up and make juice in larger batches of 4 ounces and more..

 

[RZAwora]

That is strange Smoky...flavor is subjective is all I can say. Hope the new product is holding up well for you. Please do share if and when that product goes to market, although I'm happy with Koolada and I don't have any reason to change at this point.

While I already have this thread going, while I'm at it, and along the same topic, does anyone know of a Ejuice calculator that also has a function of giving you flavor base %'s of a given recipe?

 

[AmandaD]

That is strange Smoky...flavor is subjective is all I can say. Hope the new product is holding up well for you. Please do share if and when that product goes to market, although I'm happy with Koolada and I don't have any reason to change at this point.

While I already have this thread going, while I'm at it, and along the same topic, does anyone know of a Ejuice calculator that also has a function of giving you flavor base %'s of a given recipe?

I just put in my flavor base as a total percentage - e.g., flavoring 6%!

 

[daath]

Ah was this what you were asking me? If you could plot in flavor parts and get a "recipe" of how much of each flavor goes into a base?

 

[RZAwora]

Ah was this what you were asking me? If you could plot in flavor parts and get a "recipe" of how much of each flavor goes into a base?

@daath Exactly what I was referring to. I don't know of any calculator that offers this option, though there may be one out there. It's not something that is hard to do on the fly, but it would be a nice feature/option to offer IMO. Especially since the recipes are already loaded in there.

 

[Smoky Blue]

That is strange Smoky...flavor is subjective is all I can say. Hope the new product is holding up well for you. Please do share if and when that product goes to market, although I'm happy with Koolada and I don't have any reason to change at this point.

While I already have this thread going, while I'm at it, and along the same topic, does anyone know of a Ejuice calculator that also has a function of giving you flavor base %'s of a given recipe?

yeps taste is subjective it would be a dull and boring thing to be vaping the same thing..
i dont know bout you, but i like different.. makes me happy! still.. hope you have some fun!!

 

[daath]

@daath Exactly what I was referring to. I don't know of any calculator that offers this option, though there may be one out there. It's not something that is hard to do on the fly, but it would be a nice feature/option to offer IMO. Especially since the recipes are already loaded in there.

I get it. I've actually thought about it before (et3rn1ty's milkstone etc). It's also not that hard to do. I imagine a button or something, on a recipe, to "create a premix flavor base", that would ask you how many ml you want, and show you a "recipe". I've already put it on my todo list (but as I've said everywhere, it's long)... I hope I'll get time to implement it some day ;D

 

[TomV]

Can someone please give me the math for how these percentages were figured? Thank you!

 

[JXN]

I use JuiceCalculator to make my flavor bases but the original example is simple. Based on 100% flavoring, you have three ingrediants of equal amount. Each is 1/3 or expressed as a percentage 33.0 percent of the whole.

 

[Zortec2112]

Can someone please give me the math for how these percentages were figured? Thank you!

HIC had a great post regarding the math for making bottles of pre-mix flavorings:

Total flavoring percent in the recipe: 15 and Total ml you want: 120
120 divided by 15 is 8
Multiply all the numbers by 8

Flavor A 4 * 8 = 32ml
Flavor B 2 * 8 = 16ml
Flavor C 6 * 8 = 48ml
Flavor D 3 * 8 = 24ml

That gives you 120ml of just the flavoring. You'd use it at 15% (the total % in the original recipe)

Here's the link to the entire thread - http://vapingunderground.com/threads/how-to-mix-small-batches-of-complex-recipes.1980/
Lots of good info in this thread - helped me out tremendously!

 

[TomV]

Where did you get the 4,2, 6 and 3 for the flavors? I'm confused, sorry about that!

 

[JXN]

They are the hypothetical percentages of flavor called for in a recipe. From the original post...
2% FA Cuban Supreme
2% FA Coffee Expresso
2% FA Caramel
To make a 6mL bottle containing only the flavoring
6mL divided 6 (total percentage of flavor) =1
1x2 (percentage of each flavor) = 2 mL of each flavor
Later you add 6% from your "flavor bottle" into your PG VG and NIC base.

 

[TomV]

Gotcha, thank you!

 

[AmandaD]

They are the hypothetical percentages of flavor called for in a recipe. From the original post...
2% FA Cuban Supreme
2% FA Coffee Expresso
2% FA Caramel
To make a 6mL bottle containing only the flavoring
6mL divided 6 (total percentage of flavor) =1
1x2 (percentage of each flavor) = 2 mL of each flavor
Later you add 6% from your "flavor bottle" into your PG VG and NIC base.

It can be simpler than that with this particular recipe, since it's equal proportions of each flavor - just add the same amount of each flavor to add up to the amount you want to make. I often just use the percentages as mls, so I end up with somewhere between 6-10 mls of a flavor base, depending on the original percentages (if that makes sense). Super fast because there's no math required

 

[Schmucko]

HIC had a great post regarding the math for making bottles of pre-mix flavorings:

Total flavoring percent in the recipe: 15 and Total ml you want: 120
120 divided by 15 is 8
Multiply all the numbers by 8

Flavor A 4 * 8 = 32ml
Flavor B 2 * 8 = 16ml
Flavor C 6 * 8 = 48ml
Flavor D 3 * 8 = 24ml

That gives you 120ml of just the flavoring. You'd use it at 15% (the total % in the original recipe)

Here's the link to the entire thread - http://vapingunderground.com/threads/how-to-mix-small-batches-of-complex-recipes.1980/
Lots of good info in this thread - helped me out tremendously!

For all those who said "I'm never gonna use this in real life" in algebra, here ya go...

x = (a/b)c

Where:
x = volume of flavoring needed for base mix
a = total volume of base mix
b = desired overall flavor/nic base ratio
c = percentage of flavoring called for in recipe

For anyone using excel to compile recipes I'm sure this would turn out a decent diy calculator.
I, myself, have just started mixing my own juice (literally 2 days ago) and I'm learning so much just browsing threads. I must give thanks to the pioneers and sages on this forum for all the advice and support to those of us still figuring things out.