My wife's new 12lb bowling ball AKA ultrasonic cleaner

[BumbaCLot]

So I bought an ultrasonic cleaner and I can't remember what for.
I don't plan on buying into the steep for 3 months in a dark cave where the ring lives, or taking lids off my juice so my nicotine degrades, so can someone explain to me what they use their ultrasonic cleaners for?

 

[freemind]

Cleaning vape gear and some use them for speed steeping juice.

Some use a crock pot too.

 

[BumbaCLot]

So I've been using rotgut vodka and/or isopropyl alcohol to soak, and rinsing syringes 5x in hot water, 5x in vodka, then 5x again in hot water.

 

[freemind]

I just rinse mine in water. Not worried about alcohol. Syringes are cheap. I toss them when I think they need it.

 

[BumbaCLot]

I just reuse the vodka between flavors since I do the 5x hot water before and after.
I'm sharing my vapes with friends and also prefer the illusion of cleanliness.

 

[mike-c]

I also use vodka, just not for cleaning. I use vinegar for that. Seems to work pretty well for those stubborn flavors. For example, the wife's atomic fireball. I hate that crap!

 

[BumbaCLot]

Yeah cinammon is awful, coffee, and anise. The rubber in Nautilus bottoms sucks but luckily I sold 2 of 3 of mine this week.

 

[BumbaCLot]

She put 4 rings and a necklace in it for now. I keep all my atomizers in vodka in a tiny ball jar now.

 

[BumbaCLot]

So does it shake the juice? Like I said I don't care to heat my liquids. Just looking to mix them, and then create a state change, liquid to gas or aerated vapor or whatever. Don't understand the voodoo yet but I do believe in motion.

 

[Huckleberried]

Heating (at controlled temps) won't degrade your nic. I've tested that with samples at 170 degrees. No change. That was only crock pot, though, at 4 hours. Ultrasonic, I don't have, but it gets warm, too, from what I understand.

 

[BumbaCLot]

Heating (at controlled temps) won't degrade your nic. I've tested that with samples at 170 degrees. No change. That was only crock pot, though, at 4 hours. Ultrasonic, I don't have, but it gets warm, too, from what I understand.

So what effect do you feel occurs with heating? Increased mixing or a chemical reaction? All of our ingredients I realize are GRaS as they come, and I am telling my wife what I feel is true about the safety of vaping (I don't subohm at high voltages, keep upgrading to different gear (wicks etc..) so I am just trying to wrap my head around all of this.

The comments by user antagonizerr in the video

have me questioning a lot of the hoopla and religion of steeping.

I understand from the vaperstek nic guy that nic has the lowest weight and therefore floats. If we are just vaping vapor (chemical state change) and not combusting, then I don't see how anything beyond shaking does anything to juice once it has reached PEAK MIX.

If people don't want to get the work out promised by SHAKE WEIGHT! or buy a paint mixer, what is the point of using heat?

 

[mike-c]

Think of ultrasonic as a not so very efficient microwave. It excites the molecules and causes them to vibrate. That causes them to rub together creating friction. Therefore, some heat is created. While it's not a great deal of heat, it is there. Exciting those molecules does, in theory, allow for more thorough mixing on the flavoring, vg, pg, and nic.

 

[Lefty]

"I don't plan on buying into the steep for 3 months in a dark cave where the ring lives" - "voodoo" - "the hoopla and religion of steeping"

Sounds like you've made up your mind already. It's your juice and your taste buds. If they can't tell a difference with some juices after steeping then don't. Heat and vibration or a combination of the two are merely tools that some have found to speed a process you don't believe in. Do (or don't) whatever works for you.

 

[BumbaCLot]

Here's what I see. Companies make premix of flavor. Premix of PG, VG, NIC. Often with crappy flavorings. Order comes in. Pour in the premix PG/VG/nic, top with flavor, mail out and customer with low expectations opens ripe rank unmixed crap and starts voodoo. I tend to agree with the troll on Rip's video. If you are seriously having a chemical reaction occur inside your inert food safe flavorings, something is wrong and they MAY not be food safe afterwards. If you leave a cap off you are releasing the lighter notes as well as oxidizing the nic, and potentially evaporating alcohols and waters. There really shouldn't be any chemistry happening here. Other than the only chemist I've heard speak on it that the nicotine is going to break down over time anyway.
Rip's videos are nauseating to begin with but I do see shake and vape with a good recipe as all that is needed. Reading 99% of HICs recipes (which after my $300 fa order I stayed up all night creating) they are good ingredients, in good proportions, shaken and vaped. Can't wait to go from my 5th to my 100th.

 

[BumbaCLot]

Sounds like you've made up your mind already. It's your juice and your taste buds. If they can't tell a difference with some juices after steeping then don't. Heat and vibration or a combination of the two are merely tools that some have found to speed a process you don't believe in. Do (or don't) whatever works for you.

I don't disagree that heat and vibration do the exact same thing as shaking. Proper distribution. Uncapping and heating and hiding in a cave 4 times a month I do find ridiculous and only needed to fix a bad product.

 

[Hey! it's just Ray...]

Every time I read a tread talking about making juice I remember...I still need to get into that. Then I remember...I need to learn what I'm doing so I don't die first. Then I remember...I need to go buy more juice because I haven't made that move yet. Then I remember...I better check my wallet first.

 

[BumbaCLot]

If you can invest it will pay off unless you vape a nickel a ml stuff

 

[Surgikill]

Steep in a microwave

 

[BumbaCLot]

Steep in a microwave

Why steep at all? And why boil juice? I had an entire 15ml cinnamon flavor disintegrate luckily in a bag of stuff I don't vape but purchased on a whim.
All the DIY recipes I've tried taste delicious, no off notes, and I just shake and vape.
I really don't understand the steeping / aging phenomenon with good juice. And I've got 50 bottles I'd sell for 2 bucks or keep feeding to my homeless friend but I think he prefers my DIY stuff better. He can cook like nobody's business so this is cake.

 

[Surgikill]

Why steep at all? And why boil juice? I had an entire 15ml cinnamon flavor disintegrate luckily in a bag of stuff I don't vape but purchased on a whim.
All the DIY recipes I've tried taste delicious, no off notes, and I just shake and vape.
I really don't understand the steeping / aging phenomenon with good juice. And I've got 50 bottles I'd sell for 2 bucks or keep feeding to my homeless friend but I think he prefers my DIY stuff better. He can cook like nobody's business so this is cake.

Quality juice is always steeped before it is sold. I like nutty, chocolatey, and custardy flavors. Any of that needs to be steeped if you diy it. To me it makes a HUGE difference in flavor, especially for non fruity flavors. How did the cinnamon disintegrate?

 

[BumbaCLot]

I didn't make it. Same as others who have had syringes disentegrate. Hopefully with their knowledge and not leaking 15ml of 24mg all over.

 

[BumbaCLot]

I've made chocolate nutty custards myself and they are extremely vapeable after shaking them. But why would you subject your juice to temps hot enough to boil water just to evenly disperse the molecules ?

 

[mike-c]

I don't use heat to steep my juices, but the people that do rarely ever go above 150 degrees. All I have at the moment are Lorann's flavorings. To me most of these flavorings have a chemical taste until they are steeped for atleast a week. After that week they are usually good as anything on the shelf at the local b&m.

 

[Surgikill]

I've made chocolate nutty custards myself and they are extremely vapeable after shaking them. But why would you subject your juice to temps hot enough to boil water just to evenly disperse the molecules ?

It just makes it taste better. I shake then steep. Make up a small batch and try it before and after steeping. Only make 10 or 15ml. You'll notice a difference.

 

[Surgikill]

I don't use heat to steep my juices, but the people that do rarely ever go above 150 degrees. All I have at the moment are Lorann's flavorings. To me most of these flavorings have a chemical taste until they are steeped for atleast a week. After that week they are usually good as anything on the shelf at the local b&m.

Microwave steeping gets wayyyyyy above 150. I don't know if it's good or bad but works for me.

 

[BumbaCLot]

I'm making my own so that I know what is in them but after cooking them I wouldn't be so sure.

 

[Surgikill]

I'm making my own so that I know what is in them but after cooking them I wouldn't be so sure.

How does "cooking" something add ingredients? Do you know absolutely everything that is in your flavoring?

 

[BumbaCLot]

I know the flavorings from certain vendors have done lab tests and are forthcoming about their use of dike tones. And some didn't answer, and some lied. This is currently why I am trying to only use FA diketone free ingredients. When you cook something you are changing the molecules and chemicals into different compounds. When you brown toast, or brown a steak, new chemicals and compounds are created.
If you see the studies that came out last week they stated at low voltage on a cheap 3 year old clearo less or no formaldehyde was generated vs a cigarette. At high voltage on a silica wick MORE was created, leading to a national scare and bad press about vaping. My personal preference is to mix inert and non-volatile food grade ingredients and change their state. I.e. liquid to a gas. PG/VG/nic do this at a lower temp than they combust at and theoretically that us why vaping is safe. The study put high voltage through a crappy old silica wick clearo, and Vapers said it would taste like shit. I immediately felt bad as I had just sold an iclear16 and a spinner 2 to a girl I know. She should have a better clearo and not use the final "click" but hopefully her taste buds will tell her first.

 

[mike-c]

For the record I don't think it's ever been made clear if vaping is safe or not. Clearly it a safer alternative to cigarettes. A lesser evil if you will.

 

[BumbaCLot]

For the record I don't think it's ever been made clear if vaping is safe or not. Clearly it a safer alternative to cigarettes. A lesser evil if you will.

That is the unspoken word everywhere.
I'm working on being as safe as I can. Mixing and shaking, not cooking, using best ingredients.
Little personal note. My daughter died April 9, 2014 during birth.
She had what is called a velamentous cord insertion followed by a vasa previa.
This year (last 12 months or since April) have sucked. My wife blames herself and won't disbelieve that smoking a couple cigarettes during her first trimester caused it. She quit again October 30th, my 40th birthday, and we conceived again.
I started vaping mark tens years back, get boxes of gum and patches I won't use, and bought a few gas station Vapin Plus kits. After my 3rd kit I started researching and bought a v2 pro series 3. It has an awful airflow and draw. I've spent $1300 this month on vaping and a big chunk on DIY. I've probably spent 2-300 hours researching over the past 2 months.
I tell my wife every safety thing I can and anyone that listens. For now its about harm reduction.
Tomorrow will be 6 or 7 weeks smoke free or is it 8? I don't know or care anymore what my quit date is. I just know I won't relapse.

 

[BumbaCLot]

Sorry I did say safe two posts above. I should have said safer.

 

[Surgikill]

I know the flavorings from certain vendors have done lab tests and are forthcoming about their use of dike tones. And some didn't answer, and some lied. This is currently why I am trying to only use FA diketone free ingredients. When you cook something you are changing the molecules and chemicals into different compounds. When you brown toast, or brown a steak, new chemicals and compounds are created.
If you see the studies that came out last week they stated at low voltage on a cheap 3 year old clearo less or no formaldehyde was generated vs a cigarette. At high voltage on a silica wick MORE was created, leading to a national scare and bad press about vaping. My personal preference is to mix inert and non-volatile food grade ingredients and change their state. I.e. liquid to a gas. PG/VG/nic do this at a lower temp than they combust at and theoretically that us why vaping is safe. The study put high voltage through a crappy old silica wick clearo, and Vapers said it would taste like shit. I immediately felt bad as I had just sold an iclear16 and a spinner 2 to a girl I know. She should have a better clearo and not use the final "click" but hopefully her taste buds will tell her first.

Agreed some molecules may change with heat, but what happens when you vape it? It heats up. Really really hot. Hotter than in a microwave. Or crock pot.

 

[BumbaCLot]

Agreed some molecules may change with heat, but what happens when you vape it? It heats up. Really really hot. Hotter than in a microwave. Or crock pot.

People that use crock pots go no hotter than 150 or 170. Microwaves can boil water in 60 seconds. You can't measure that like I can with my silicone oven probe. The v2 pro series 3 has 3 temperature controls built into it and controls the temp based on liquid, dry, or wax (which they still didn't have to market when I bought mine). Probably for concerns of interstate commerce of paraphernalia.
The new Evolv DNA 40 has temperature controls in it too I think I read.
Subohm drippers with mech mods probably couldn't tell you what temp they vape at. But for safety purposes you probably should be vaping at the minimum temperature needed to get the job done.

 

[BumbaCLot]

See the indiegogo.com crowd funding work of Dr. Konstantinos Farsalinos

 

[Surgikill]

People that use crock pots go no hotter than 150 or 170. Microwaves can boil water in 60 seconds. You can't measure that like I can with my silicone oven probe. The v2 pro series 3 has 3 temperature controls built into it and controls the temp based on liquid, dry, or wax (which they still didn't have to market when I bought mine). Probably for concerns of interstate commerce of paraphernalia.
The new Evolv DNA 40 has temperature controls in it too I think I read.
Subohm drippers with mech mods probably couldn't tell you what temp they vape at. But for safety purposes you probably should be vaping at the minimum temperature needed to get the job done.

A microwave isn't getting as hot as my coil. It's not vaporizing the liquid like my coil.

 

[BumbaCLot]

My microwave is 1200 watts. My vape gear is 30. Toss an atomizer in there and see what happens

 

[freemind]

My microwave is 1200 watts. My vape gear is 30. Toss an atomizer in there and see what happens

Your microwave heats with microwaves, not a coil. So the wattage is only relative to the way it heats.

It would take a much more significant time to burn a ball of cotton in a microwave, but just a second to burn a cotton ball on a coil.

 

[Surgikill]

My microwave is 1200 watts. My vape gear is 30. Toss an atomizer in there and see what happens

Lol okay this proves you have no clue what you're talking about.

 

[mike-c]

Why argue about something that is subjective anyway. Here's an idea... If you like the way your juice tastes after steeping, then steep. If not, that's even easier. Don't. Taste is subjective, and perceived differently from person to person. Some people love the smell of cow patties in the morning. I'm more partial to the smell of a sour mash. Most people want to puke at that smell though.

Some people are affraid of everything, while some don't even wear a seatbelt unless a cop is around. It's not worth arguing all day to try to convince someone of something that doesn't amount to a hill of beans either way. Can't we just all get along?

 

[MD_Boater]

I just reuse the vodka between flavors since I do the 5x hot water before and after.
I'm sharing my vapes with friends and also prefer the illusion of cleanliness.

One of my friends stopped by and needed some juice. He like my TFA Pear, and asked me to make a little for him while he was here. I said, "Okay, follow me.", and took him to my basement wood shop. I cleared an area on the workbench, brushed the sawdust away, and whipped him up a 10ml bottle. As I handed it to him I said, "If it vapes a little gritty, that would be oak. And some cherry... and some maple. No charge for the wood products". He vaped it all, and is asking for more. I'm wondering if it tastes the same without tannin.

 

[BumbaCLot]

I'm not anti vaping, I just have a feeling that people either hate the juice they get and prefer it oxidized, microwaved or whatever they want to do to it, or they could just make better juice with notes they like. I do believe in proper dispersion. I just can imagine the bulk shoestring operations not taking the time to shake their juice or using the cheapest ingredients. When retail juice is between .05 cents and 1.05 a ml there are bound to be some variables.

 

[BumbaCLot]

Lol okay this proves you have no clue what you're talking about.

Sorry that was pure sarcasm with regards to something you may have said to make me believe the same.
I'll be nice. And shake my juice.

 

[mike-c]

Just putting this out there. I have found that while most juices are good as a shake and vape, some are absolutely phenomenal with a weeks worth of steeping. Vermilion Rivers is one of those. While it's ok as a shake and vape, after the recommended 28 day steep it is good enough to be an all day vape. Steeping is not essential for the majority of juices. However, it should be considered as a tool to get that perfect effect from a juice. Sometimes in a complex recipe, the flavors need time to meld with each other.

 

[freemind]

Who is HONESTLY buying juice for 5 CENTS a mil? You just don't get it that cheap.

Locally it is high, on the net, cheaper. But I have NOT found it that cheap. The lesser priced stuff I have tried, was a waste of money.

Back on point, aging does have a purpose, and it does matter. Not everyone can taste it. Not everyone cares. But I think @BumbaCLot has spent all his time trying to convince everyone that the idea of aging is bunk. It just isn't. Aging is useful. It does work.

I think the OP was just a bait to bring on an argument or a way to state his opinion. I don't really think he cares about IF he should or not. He's already made up his mind.

However, slinging around "facts" like the comparison of wattage of his microwave and his DNA type device, is absurd. 2+2 does not equal pear.

 

[BumbaCLot]

No I sincerely couldn't remember why I bought this cleaner. It is nice for drip tips and syringes but I can shake my juice by hand better. Only runs about 3 seconds.

 

[mike-c]

Yeah some of the jewelry cleaners do have a time limit. Don't know if it works, but I remember reading about a guy that put tape on the activation button to get the thing go longer. It may work for your cleaner but I couldn't guarantee it. It might be worth a shot though.

 

[BumbaCLot]

May burn the motor out. I've got an automatic litter box that lasted a week. Thanks everyone for your thoughts.

 

[mike-c]

I can't blame ya in the least. My coffee pot has an automatic shutoff timer but I still freak out about it actually turning off. I trust nothing which is why I only steep old school if I have to.

Edit: sorry I have ocd as far as spelling goes.

 

[BumbaCLot]

Was gonna work on perfecting coffee but made a 7DTD server instead. Die zombies!

 

[Huckleberried]

Moved to DIY General Discussion