What is this going to mean for the small guys?

[GhrayFahx]

I just saw on Reddit that Evolve E-Liquid is being shut down due to lawsuits from Nicopure Labs, AKA Evo E-liquid and HaloCigs. Apparently, the latter has applied for and was awarded trademarks for "Evo" and "Vapor". It also sounds like there's several other companies who are being sued as well. No cease and desist, just straight to court. What's everyone's opinion on what things like this mean for the industry, especially the small guys who can't afford the lawsuits?

http://www.reddit.com/r/electronic_...e_eliquid_shuts_doors_due_to_federal_lawsuit/

 

[BigNasty]

BOHICA!!
Hana lawsuits part fuck em.

 

[Jaaxx]

This is the part where the e-cig business begins to cannibalize itself in preparation for big tobacco and the FDA to swoop in and finish the job

 

[vaperature]

Reminds me of when Hop Notch was threatened by another micro brewery because they had rights to the name "Notch". That's why Hop Notch is now called Hop Nosh. Evolve doesn't have to shut down, they just need to change their name a little.

 

[GhrayFahx]

At Least Hop Notch was given notice. Sounds like this was an out of nowhere lawsuit. No C&D or any other warning, just papers.

 

[travanx]

"(iii) ® VAPOR®, U.S. Registration No. 4,483,273, as used since at least as early as July 2010 in connection with Electronic cigarettes in Class 34. Reg. Date: February 18, 2014; First Use in Commerce: July 2010."
https://ia802701.us.archive.org/7/items/gov.uscourts.flmd.306614/gov.uscourts.flmd.306614.1.0.pdf

Someone can hold the trademark for the word "vapor"? I wonder when this main website gets taken to court since they aren't using cease and desist letters. Oh yeah and the double whammy, http://www.evolvapor.com/.

 

[vaperature]

"(iii) ® VAPOR®, U.S. Registration No. 4,483,273, as used since at least as early as July 2010 in connection with Electronic cigarettes in Class 34. Reg. Date: February 18, 2014; First Use in Commerce: July 2010."
https://ia802701.us.archive.org/7/items/gov.uscourts.flmd.306614/gov.uscourts.flmd.306614.1.0.pdf

Someone can hold the trademark for the word "vapor"? I wonder when this main website gets taken to court since they aren't using cease and desist letters. Oh yeah and the double whammy, http://www.evolvapor.com/.

Yeah that is the screwed up part. That's like trademarking the word "beer" or "cookies". Vapor is a generic term used by the entire industry. I bet if someone had the means to take them to court and challenge that trademark they would lose the right to it.

 

[Prsurf2k]

@vaperature Maybe, but also they may be backed by Big Tobacco.

 

[Vaperjim]

This is the part where the e-cig business begins to cannibalize itself in preparation for big tobacco and the FDA to swoop in and finish the job

You probably speak the truth!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Atomized_Labs]

We will re-launch under another brand name for now we have shut down all production and sales. Atomized Labs (Evolve)

 

[GhrayFahx]

I'm glad other you're not going to give up! Hopefully, this case is thrown out for the sham it is and the copyrights are cancelled. Either way, I'm glad to hear you guys are going to be sticking around.

 

[Whiskey]

@vaperature Maybe, but also they may be backed by Big Tobacco.

A very good possibility

 

[BoomStick]

We will re-launch under another brand name for now we have shut down all production and sales. Atomized Labs (Evolve)

Good for you and fuck them. Playing lawyer ball with the competition. Pathetic.

 

[MD_Boater]

I've never bought anything from Nicopure or Halo, but you can bet your bippie that I will tell as many people I can how bad their products are. I can help them lose some money.

 

[Zamazam]

Let's show our support for Nicopure Labs and not give those litigious fucks another dollar from us. The eliquid business is really high margin, Nicopure Labs wants to squash competition because of the enormous profits involved.

 

[MD_Boater]

Let's show our support for Nicopure Labs and not give those litigious fucks another dollar from us. The eliquid business is really high margin, Nicopure Labs wants to squash competition because of the enormous profits involved.

Support??? Don't you mean lack of support? Anti-support? Un-support? Supportless?

 

[Zamazam]

Support??? Don't you mean lack of support? Anti-support? Un-support? Supportless?

Nope, being positive, let's support them by not buying their products since they believe that they can alienate a good portion of vapers because they just don't need our business anymore because they are doing so very well in the juice business.

 

[Atomized_Labs]

Thanks for all your support on this matter!

 

[Browncoat]

This is only the beginning of bullying the little guys. Just wait until some of these trade associations have grown their ranks.

 

[BoomStick]

Put these assholes on blast Mr. Vape Media.

 

[KKen]

This is the part where the e-cig business begins to cannibalize itself in preparation for big tobacco and the FDA to swoop in and finish the job

How true, seems to be the natural progression of things.

 

[jack]

I just don't get it , in business it never cost a penny to give time and, or respect , people notice that . As people we all carry stuff , we all suffer from something . You can never gain anything by being a prick . It's like some want to make as many people as they can miserable . Some just love drama.. If it's not there , they have to create it . Where are they gonna get with trouble over the word vapor . Really ?

 

[CaFF]

Reminds me of the Dragonite dramas a few years ago. Bunch of copywrite troll...bah!

 

[KKen]

Some people are, and will always be a prick regardless of how much or how little money they make.
Now give a prick an attorney, well, that's basically a Viagra pill for a limp dick.

 

[Pauly Walnuts]

The destruction of our beautiful free market has commenced. Introducing big govt rules makes it possible for the dog eat dog business model they promote, the big win and the small lose.
I fear in a couple years, things will be vastly different, never to be repaired.

Just wait until vape shops start getting raided, seized, and shut down en masse. Copyright infringement suits are only the tip of the tip of the iceberg, the shit has only begun to hit the fan.

 

[Browncoat]

Put these assholes on blast Mr. Vape Media.

Working on it.

 

[Robert B]

Just because you've registered a TM, doesn't mean you own it. You have to prove you've used it in commerce, and not just local commerce. And you have to actually use it. You can say anything on a USPTO registration, but proving it is entirely different. These are not lawsuits, they are challenges which take place in a Federal court that hears trademark disputes. More times than not, a judge will award both parties equal rights to a name unless there is overwhelming evidence that someone has purposely squatted on your name for monetary gain.

As far as the word "Vapor", I'm not sure a company could legally hold that as a TM, since it's a description of an action or item, no more than a big tobacco company can keep you from calling a cigarette a cigarette. Can some big bottled water company monopolized the name "water"? I doubt it.

Cybersquatting is the same. Here is a good example of someone using Suicide Bunny's name to draw the same type of business to their own site. Type in "suicidebunny.net" and see what comes up. A good, easy to read article by Harvard Law. http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/property00/domain/legislation.html

Most of the time, it's the small dishonest vendor trying to coattail on the back of someone who has worked hard to become successful, not the other way around.

 

[BoomStick]

Most of the time, it's the small dishonest vendor trying to coattail on the back of someone who has worked hard to become successful, not the other way around.

That is certainly a valid point. Is that what's happening in this case?

 

[Browncoat]

Update:

I have been in contact with both Nicopure and Atomized Labs. However, I am not at liberty to share information at this point. Atomized Labs will be issuing a public statement in the coming days.

Yes, @Robert B is 100% correct. Trademark infringement must be proven in court. From the documents I've seen, it's not just about the name, it's also about wording and letter coloring on the label. They're basically claiming brand infringement, which is equally ridiculous, because the product labels look nothing alike. This is the 4th such lawsuit filed by Nicopure since January 1, and their parent company has another suit from September 2014.

And yes, on the surface, this looks like a bully tactic. It's often more financially feasible for these smaller companies to simply change their brand than to sink money into litigation.

 

[vaperature]

Opinions are like assholes. Everyone has one. All Evolve has to do is change their name a little, maybe to Avolve? Everyone is getting upset because it's the big company that can afford the lawyers that is protecting their trademark, but how many would blame Alien Vision if it had the resources and desire to sue Alien Vapor over the Boba's Bounty name? I know nothing about Evolve and have nothing against them and feel bad for them that now they have to change their labeling, but come on, Evolve and Evo E-Liquid Evolved does sound very similar.

 

[MD_Boater]

Evolve and Evo E-Liquid Evolved does sound very similar.

I guess it depends on who you are. I think the 3 letter name is not close enough to the 6 letter name to cause the confusion. If I were the judge, I'd toss this in the circular file post haste.

 

[Robert B]

A good friend of mine in California owned a company that produced memory modules for computers. For years his company name was "Sunland Micro".
Sun Microsystems made him change his name. He renamed it Southland Micro.

 

[MD_Boater]

But those two ARE similar. 7 out of 12 letters are the same, and in the same approximate position.

 

[vaperature]

Put these assholes on blast Mr. Vape Media.

I've posted a little story about this at Vaporacle.com. If anyone has more information feel free to send it to me and I'll update the report.

 

[Robert B]

But those two ARE similar. 7 out of 12 letters are the same, and in the same approximate position.

The ironic thing was, Sun Microsystems was one of Southland/Sunland's biggest customers. They made many of the custom memory modules that went into Sun's computer systems. He said changing the name was no big deal, and the order's kept rolling in uninterrupted.

 

[Browncoat]

Update. Nicopure has issued a statement:

http://www.v4p3r.com/nicopure-labs-files-trademark-infringement-suits/

 

[MD_Boater]

The ironic thing was, Sun Microsystems was one of Southland/Sunland's biggest customers. They made many of the custom memory modules that went into Sun's computer systems. He said changing the name was no big deal, and the order's kept rolling in uninterrupted.

Smart move on his part.

 

[Browncoat]

Update from Reddit:

Vendors seem to be eager to distance themselves from Nicopure Labs.

 

[BoomStick]

So filing a lawsuit is attempting to resolve the issue amicably?

 

[MD_Boater]

To paraphrase a coworker, Nicopure's got bawls. I fail to see why they are the ones acting like they have been wronged. Their modus operendi is clear for anyone with 2 eyes and half a brain to read.

Who holds the the first trademark for a company name with "nic" as the first 3 letters? Nicoputz, er nicopure can get sued by that company for infringement. Nicoticket? Nicvape? one of those companies has a shot. I was trying to buy some Nicoticket juice, and I kept finding Nicopure instead. Are they the same company? Maybe I should email Nicoticket and ask them?

Sorry Nicoputzes... I will be advising everyone that I know that your company is not one they should be doing business with. "Unfortunately, if we choose to look the other way and not enforce our intellectual property rights, then we are diluting the value of our own brand". There is no better way to dilute the value of your brand that pulling stupid BS like this on companies much smaller than yours. Their name is very different. Their packaging looks completely different. Their color scheme is not similar enough to yours to cause confusion for anyone other than the most diehard Obama voter, and they couldn't tell the difference between a bowling ball and a golf ball. You are doing a fine job of diluting... make that soiling your name like a dirty diaper.

We understand that you would have preferred that Atomized curled up in the corner in the fetal position and cried, but telling their customers what happened is the right thing for them to do. Some of their customers may want to re-order, and if they didn't know what happened, they wouldn't know where to go. These folks need to put food on their tables, and roofs over their families' heads. Its bad enough that you had to pull a stunt like this, but it is twice as bad when you try to prevent them from informing their customers. If you didn't want the public to hear how you operate, you wouldn't have done it. You can't be assholes, and expect your victims to be happy to help you by playing along with it.

 

[freemind]

I'm interested in hearing the other side's statement. On some level, I agree with Nicopure's stance. I have not seen either companies goods, but everyone here says there are no real similarities.

So long as they are not copying marketing (copy), not copying logo's, or copying names of the juices, then there really is NO infringement.

I have seen, in my own type of business, BLATENT copying of marketing (copy), word for word, picture for picture.

On the surface, at this point, it realty does look douche-esk, that these guy are suing the little guy to basically crush any competition, and that it isn't about someone coming along and screwing with their brand and intellectual rights.

 

[Browncoat]

So long as they are not copying marketing (copy), not copying logo's, or copying names of the juices, then there really is NO infringement.

Aside from the black bottle, there are literally no similarities. I don't think anyone of a sane mind would actually confuse these two products.

As for Evolve's statement, they are working on hashing out a few things, and have said they will issue a statement in a day or two.

 

[freemind]

Aside from the black bottle, there are literally no similarities. I don't think anyone of a sane mind would actually confuse these two products.

As for Evolve's statement, they are working on hashing out a few things, and have said they will issue a statement in a day or two.

I'm not seeing ANY similarities. None. Logos are totally different. Names are different. Labeling is different.

Is there marketing copy as different as the bottles? I'm just not seeing ANY connection that would make me think they infringed in ANY way on intellectual properties.

At this point, this looks like a frivolous lawsuit, and I would counter sue for legal expenses and loss of sales, if this is the best they have. I would also seek damages for defamation as the lawsuit has no merit and seeks only to damage a competitor.

 

[M5amhan]

the worst part is this kind of stuff will be swept under the rug by the community, whether purposefully or not, and it will continue until power through the use of force is consolidated in a way similar to other industries. then the lobbying begins to get in bed with the feds and put up huge barriers to entry so no one can touch the top dogs. crony capitalism and big government at work

 

[Jaaxx]

Anything that get the legal system looking at the e-liquid business has to be good for everyone right? Freakin' log touching bastards.

 

[Zamazam]

Update:

I have been in contact with both Nicopure and Atomized Labs. However, I am not at liberty to share information at this point. Atomized Labs will be issuing a public statement in the coming days.

Yes, @Robert B is 100% correct. Trademark infringement must be proven in court. From the documents I've seen, it's not just about the name, it's also about wording and letter coloring on the label. They're basically claiming brand infringement, which is equally ridiculous, because the product labels look nothing alike. This is the 4th such lawsuit filed by Nicopure since January 1, and their parent company has another suit from September 2014.

And yes, on the surface, this looks like a bully tactic. It's often more financially feasible for these smaller companies to simply change their brand than to sink money into litigation.

No kidding, there is a Greek restaurant that used to be called the Olympic Cafe and Bistro where I live that has been in business since 1922. They had to change their name to the Olympia Cafe and Bistro after the assholes with the Olympic committee began sicc'ing lawyers on them for a trademark violation, they changed their name rather than face years of costly litigation. The owner (the great grandson of the original owner) had the last laugh, he refused service to some IOC members who were in town for an IOC symposium. It made the local news and quadrupled his business overnight.

 

[vaperature]

After researching around for my Vaporacle.com article, it's clear to me that there is no trademark infringement. I take back what I said earlier. Evolve shouldn't change its name. Instead they should sue eVo for damages and for slandering Evolve's reputation.

 

[freemind]

 

[BoomStick]

Maybe the makers of the Halo video games should go after nicopure. Or maybe Mitsubishi. Or any company with nic or pure in the name. Or the makers of the dna chips. The community sees your true colors and your business will suffer.

 

[Browncoat]

Update:

First and foremost the Atomized Labs Team would like to say “Thank You” to V4P3R, ECR Reddit, Vaping Underground, E-Cigarette Forum and the entire E-Cig community for supporting us. We are overwhelmed with the amount of support that the communities have given us and rest assure that we will give back more than we were given. We are currently in the process of re-branding and reformulating and expect to release new branded product with in the next few weeks.

We had planned to release a public statement in regards to the pending lawsuit today; however we were advised by our legal counsel not do so at this time. More information on the pending case should be made available to you within the next several weeks.


Thanks again,

K. Edwards
Atomized Labs, LLC