Quick battery safety question.

[hemispheres]

I work at a vape shop and in my done time I build on our store rda.

I remember a customer telling me there is some type of equation you can do really quickly to see if you battery is able to handle a low ohm coil build without discharging too quickly and grenading.

I was wondering if anyone can explain this to me in laymens terms. (I'm new to electricity)

I usually build a .25 to .3ohm and run it on an MNKE 18650 battery. Don't know if it matters but it's a colonial mech mod with a darkhorse rda clone.

We sold out of batteries so to be honest I was bored as shit for a week. Today we got in VTC-4s, LG high drain and mnke 18650 batteries.

Both the LG and MNKE are 2500mah batteries. I was told by a customer the LG can handle low ohm builds so I grabbed the kanthal and made a dual coil build that reads .17 ohms.

It rips like a beast however I can't handle liquids like cereal killa anymore due to the nic level, it has to be a 0 nic or I choke on the vapor.

 

[hemispheres]

And before you ask, No we have had absolutely no safety type classes. Basically learn on the fly.

 

[Number3124]

You want to use the VTC-4s for that rather than the LGs. I don't know the MNKE amp rating, but the I'm pretty sure those are 20amp LG cells. I wouldn't use them for that build. It's drawing around 25amps. If the MNKE is a 30amp battery then you're safe to vape with those on that build as well. For now stick with the VTC-4 for that build, or put it on a regulated mod and vape without worrying about the math.

It's a rather simple calculation though. It's just volts divided by ohms. For the purposes of the calculation current (amps) are expressed the variable, "I," power (watts) as the variable, "P," and resistance (ohms) with the variable, "R." So, I=V/R and P=V^2/R. There, are of course other permutations of the complex calculation to figure out the other two variables, but those two variables are the ones that we have control over and should never need to be calculated from the other two variables.

So, for your build, assuming 4.2 on a full battery, V=4.2 and R=0.17. So:

I=V/R
I=4.2/0.17
I=24.7058824
I=~25amps.

 

[Midniteoyl]

Here.. http://www.rapidtables.com/calc/electric/watt-volt-amp-calculator.htm

Put in your batteries max continuous amps and 3.9v for the battery voltage and it'll kick out he ohms you can build down too. IE, for a 20amp continuous batt, @ 3.9v, you can build down to .195ohm coil and be ok.

 

[Number3124]

Here.. http://www.rapidtables.com/calc/electric/watt-volt-amp-calculator.htm

Put in your batteries max continuous amps and 3.9v for the battery voltage and it'll kick out he ohms you can build down too. IE, for a 20amp continuous batt, @ 3.9v, you can build down to .195ohm coil and be ok.

3.9v? Batteries charge to 4.2v.

 

[Pancho_Brown]

The MNKE's are actually only rated to 20 amps continuous and only hold 1500 mah. Own a pair of those batteries.

 

[montijo505]

For anything below .25 I would stick with VTC4 and VTC5. Both are rated to 30A continuous so you're safe drawing 25A from it. The equation I use is battery voltage divided by your coils resistance V/R=A. So on a full charge your Sony should be at 4.2/.17= 24.70 so 25A.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Number3124]

Ah. There are better 20a batteries out there then.

 

[hemispheres]

Here.. http://www.rapidtables.com/calc/electric/watt-volt-amp-calculator.htm

Put in your batteries max continuous amps and 3.9v for the battery voltage and it'll kick out he ohms you can build down too. IE, for a 20amp continuous batt, @ 3.9v, you can build down to .195ohm coil and be ok.

It's telling me I can build down to .195 at 20amps or .156 at 25 amps. I'll have to find out exactly which battery it is.

 

[Midniteoyl]

3.9v? Batteries charge to 4.2v.

But its only there for a very short time, or at all depending on how your batt sags and the losses. Most mechs show ~4v on a fresh batt while firing and then drop after 10-15 hits or so. 3.9v is where you would actually spend most of your time on the high end.

 

[Number3124]

But its only there for a very short time, or at all depending on how your batt sags and the losses. Most mechs show ~4v on a fresh batt while firing and then drop after 10-15 hits or so. 3.9v is where you would actually spend most of your time on the high end.

True, but it's still a risk that the damn thing will blow up before you get out of those 10-15 hits.

 

[Midniteoyl]

True, but it's still a risk that the damn thing will blow up before you get out of those 10-15 hits.

Thats what the pulse rating is for .. LOL

 

[Number3124]

Thats what the pulse rating is for .. LOL

I know cloud chasing wouldn't exist without a pulse rating, but I've never been comfortable exceeding the continuous rating.

 

[Midniteoyl]

I know cloud chasing wouldn't exist without a pulse rating, but I've never been comfortable exceeding the continuous rating.

Me neither ..

 

[hemispheres]

Got my tax return and picked up a mod today. It's an all copper 18650 clone, Direct connect setup. Picked up a littleboy clone, all copper with a black chuff cap so it looks pretty sick. I found out our red LG high drains are better than the VTC4's. These batteries are 2500mah and rated at 35amps. I can build down to a .12 safely. They're also quite a bit less expensive than the sonys as well.

 

[Number3124]

Got my tax return and picked up a mod today. It's an all copper 18650 clone, Direct connect setup. Picked up a littleboy clone, all copper with a black chuff cap so it looks pretty sick. I found out our red LG high drains are better than the VTC4's. These batteries are 2500mah and rated at 35amps. I can build down to a .12 safely. They're also quite a bit less expensive than the sonys as well.

The two LG 18650 I know of are the HE2 and HE4. They're both 20A. The HE4s are rated for higher temperature use in large battery packs.

EDIT: I wouldn't go below 0.23 ohms.

 

[hemispheres]

http://www.ebay.com/sch/sis.html?_nkw=LG+18650+35amp+High+Drain+Vape+Battery

 

[Number3124]

http://www.ebay.com/sch/sis.html?_nkw=LG 18650 35amp High Drain Vape Battery

They may be advertised by sellers as 35 amp, but all of those listings are for HE2s and HE4s. Both of those are 20 amp maximum continuous discharge rated batteries. They may have a pulse rating of 35 amps, but that doesn't mean you can safely treat them as 35 amp continuous discharge batteries. If you do that you're gambling that you won't hold the fire button down even a second too long.

For the record, Efest has been doing this shit as company policy for a long time. If you ever ask me why I won't buy Efest batteries it's because of that shit. After they ran out of reject VTC4 cells (legit 30 amp CDR) they started taking 20 amp CDR reject cells, checking their pulse rating (30 or 35 amps), and advertising that as their CDR. You have to have people treating less stable cells (because Efest's cells are ones rejected by their manufacturer) like they able to supply more amperage than they safely can. They'll be subjected to harsher discharges than they can handle in a hotter environment than they can handle. It's a disaster waiting to happen.

 

[Midniteoyl]

Has anyone ever proved they are using reject cells? I havent seen that yet..

 

[Robert B]

Has anyone ever proved they are using reject cells? I havent seen that yet..

Nobody would be able to prove they use rejects except factory employees. However, you can prove that they lie about the amperage. And if they are dishonest about that, who would doubt they use rejects?

 

[Number3124]

Nobody would be able to prove they use rejects except factory employees. However, you can prove that they lie about the amperage. And if they are dishonest about that, who would doubt they use rejects?

Not to mention that, since we've proven they lie about their amperage, we can't trust any of their specs.

 

[Midniteoyl]

Not to mention that, since we've proven they lie about their amperage, we can't trust any of their specs.

Thats up to you guys, but, dont say they use rejects if you dont actually know that, please..

 

[hemispheres]

I've seen the rejects. There's some slick jersey bastard up the road from our shop selling purple efest 18650. You can tell because the positive terminal on the battery is a small nipple compared to larger surface area of good 18650 batteries. I've been running a my coils at .17-.20 with this red LG high drain. Battery doesn't become hot, button doesn't become hot, battery doesn't drain extremely fast. I'll check back in a few months to let you all know my face and hands are still intact.

 

[hemispheres]

Nvm. Built a new coil at .35. Had a customer come in today trying to figure out why his RDA cap wouldn't seal properly. Turns out a co-worker has been building low ohm coils for customers (I refuse to build anything lower than a .25 for customers). His mephisto RDA was overheating and warped the gasket, then after talking a bit longer he told me my co-worker built him another hot coil with his darkhorse rda. His cotton caught fire and he tossed the battery, says it exploded as soon as it hit the snow. I'll stick with .3s from here on out.

 

[battery bro]

Not sure if you know, but steam-engine is a great tool for calculating these things.

 

[Jon@LiionWholesale]

I've seen the rejects. There's some slick jersey bastard up the road from our shop selling purple efest 18650. You can tell because the positive terminal on the battery is a small nipple compared to larger surface area of good 18650 batteries. I've been running a my coils at .17-.20 with this red LG high drain. Battery doesn't become hot, button doesn't become hot, battery doesn't drain extremely fast. I'll check back in a few months to let you all know my face and hands are still intact.

Just FYI it sounds like you're saying that he carries button tops. Efest sells it in both varieties, the normal flat top you're used to seeing and the button tops which it not being a flat top and being a button top doesn't say anything bad about it. Button tops can handle just as much load as flat tops. There's more surface area on a flat top but that much area isn't necessary.

If you're saying the LG is better than the Sony, it's quite possible the Sony's you're using are counterfeits. There are tons of counterfeit sony's on the market and tough to find a legit supplier. While the LG would last longer at a lower amp application, for sure if you're doing what you say and running 25A the Sony should be the better of the two.

And the MNKE's are far inferior to both.

 

[hemispheres]

Just FYI it sounds like you're saying that he carries button tops. Efest sells it in both varieties, the normal flat top you're used to seeing and the button tops which it not being a flat top and being a button top doesn't say anything bad about it. Button tops can handle just as much load as flat tops. There's more surface area on a flat top but that much area isn't necessary.

If you're saying the LG is better than the Sony, it's quite possible the Sony's you're using are counterfeits. There are tons of counterfeit sony's on the market and tough to find a legit supplier. While the LG would last longer at a lower amp application, for sure if you're doing what you say and running 25A the Sony should be the better of the two.

And the MNKE's are far inferior to both.

Yep, I'm trying my best not to take any info from work home with me... If I do I'll end up blowing someone's face off.

 

[timmyu]

Just an FYI on previous posts for HE2s, the 35amp listing is false, they are a 20amp continuous. Anything you see higher than 25amp (vtc) is either a continuous rating or a false rating. I believe vamped batteries are truly a 35amp continuous but they drain extremely quick. Know your products for safety!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[battery bro]

I believe vamped batteries are truly a 35amp continuous

Unfortunately this is impossible because of limitations in battery science. Vamped rewraps cells, they don't invent cells better than Sony, LG, Panasonic, etc. No 35A continuous.... they are almost certainly 20A and are an efest clone operation like most others.

 

[BoomStick]

I work at a vape shop and in my done time I build on our store rda.

I remember a customer telling me there is some type of equation you can do really quickly to see if you battery is able to handle a low ohm coil build without discharging too quickly and grenading.

I was wondering if anyone can explain this to me in laymens terms. (I'm new to electricity)

I usually build a .25 to .3ohm and run it on an MNKE 18650 battery. Don't know if it matters but it's a colonial mech mod with a darkhorse rda clone.

We sold out of batteries so to be honest I was bored as shit for a week. Today we got in VTC-4s, LG high drain and mnke 18650 batteries.

Both the LG and MNKE are 2500mah batteries. I was told by a customer the LG can handle low ohm builds so I grabbed the kanthal and made a dual coil build that reads .17 ohms.

It rips like a beast however I can't handle liquids like cereal killa anymore due to the nic level, it has to be a 0 nic or I choke on the vapor.

Ummm..........yeah. Have a nice day.

 

[Faceless Vapes]

Ohm's Law calculator is a good tool to use

 

[Haadkoe]

Are the mnke's IMR or ICR?

If they're ICR, I wouldn't use them at all after seeing a video of one exploding.

 

[Number3124]

Are the mnke's IMR or ICR?

If they're ICR, I wouldn't use them at all after seeing a video of one exploding.

IMR hybrid like a lot of the other high-drains out there.

 

[hemispheres]

Orange Battery with a white sticker listing MAH and voltage. Didn't know there were two types. We also have them in 26650.

 

[unknownvapes]

I'm glad you're asking questions and trying to get proper info considering where you work. I can't tell you how many times I've heard some asshat employee at alt smoke tell a new vapor that the battery would be just fine at low ohms.

 

[kingworm]

Just an FYI on previous posts for HE2s, the 35amp listing is false, they are a 20amp continuous. Anything you see higher than 25amp (vtc) is either a continuous rating or a false rating. I believe vamped batteries are truly a 35amp continuous but they drain extremely quick. Know your products for safety!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

the fact that the vamped "drain extremely quickly" should throw up a warning flag. in my experience if a battery drains really quickly its being pushed to or past its limit which could be dangerous. batteries are designed to hold a charge and dish it out slowly if its draining quickly its creating heat.

 

[BoomStick]

I don't trust any rewraps. I want a battery labeled and spec'ed by the manufacturer. Fuck vamped and efest.

 

[hemispheres]

The battery tends to be holding charge better now, was most likely because I was being impatient and not letting it fully charge before I'd pop it back in.

As for blowing peoples faces off... I wouldn't mind it at this point. Had some asshat come in during a rush and swipe my Eleaf Istick.... I am thoroughly pissed.

 

[hemispheres]

I have decided to stick around this shop for a bit longer, then I'm moving on. We also sell glass pipes and kratom in our store, and as of late I've noticed our vape crowd going to more respectable places while more and more spice/k2 junkies are popping up.

I literally went on a facebook group for local vapers and asked what they thought of our stores, and what we could do to bring in more customers. Every last one had nothing good to say. We aren't educated enough, we aren't knowledgeable enough, too many junkies and pill heads visit our stores etc etc. Hell one guy lives across the street from our store and never knew we were there.

It's time to move on, I'm tired of people begging me to hook them up with a spice connect, tired of slack ass people being dumbasses and breaking their mods and acting like it's our fault, I'm tired of working for a management team that straight up only cares about profit. I'm done.