In my mind controlling it means not too high or too low. The temp control chips only restrict the max temp it can reach. That's not controlling it, that's limiting it. Controlling it would mean it hits the target temp when you hit the button. That doesn't happen. Just how I see it.if you limit the temp you are controlling it, so both work there.
agreed but limiting is still controlling to a degree. just means there is farther to go in the temp control idea, not that what we are calling it is inaccurateIn my mind controlling it means not too high or too low. The temp control chips only restrict the max temp it can reach. That's not controlling it, that's limiting it. Controlling it would mean it hits the target temp when you hit the button. That doesn't happen. Just how I see it.
yea lol but what hes saying is that if your watts wont get your coil up to temp, there is no boost to get it there so it just says at however hot it can get at the wattage setting. so thats where i would agree that we have farther to go, at that point it wouldnt be about wattage at all only temperature. also id like to see some tests at how accurate these temperature gauges are with the various temp controlled chips that are out now using different builds, conditions, etc.If temperature limiting isn't the same as temperature controlled I would like to hear an example of what is controlled. Oven- nope. HVAC- nope. Thermostat in the car - nope. Refrigerator - nope.
the theory behind it is that these algorithms are already well documented, very precise, and accepted and thats where the idea to use it in ecigs came from. so the precision is already built into the algorithm, its just that i want to know how accurate it is in application with airflow cooling the coil at varying degrees, different amounts of wick and juice, etc. there is just an ass load of testing to prove the accuracy in application that im not so sure evolv did anymore. testing that requires real equipment too so its not like i could do this stuff at homeWell the whole thing is kind of a crapshoot anyway considering that the chip measures the temp by judging the resistance change in the wire as it heats up. This really requires extreme precision. That's why you must use Ni200 wire. It's only calibrated for that specific wire. I imagine that Kanthal's resistance change vs temp is too tiny for these chips to measure.
That being said, there is potential boost. Up to 40 watts, which exceeds what a mech could provide at nominal voltages and at middling resistances that the DNA40 requires. If you want to "temp control" a .15 build you are SOL. 1.3 is easily doable, but the accuracy just isn't there IMHO which is why so many are having problems. True temp control will come when we have some way to directly measure the coil surface temp.
FWIW...
"Introducing the latest evolution of the Vapor Shark
rDNA; now with the Evolv 40D board under the hood!
The First board to measure and limit temperature."
Nice try, but if it doesn't have a dedicated temperature sensor in the atty it can't measure anything. It can only attempt to extrapolate the coil temp by sensing the resistance change in the wire as it heats up. Limit it can though, LOL.
Sorry, I wasn't trying to sound confrontational.
Just irritated with Evolve's claims about this tech. I think it's a great first step, but IMHO they released it into the wild before the device they sell could actually do what they say it can.
i hear you, i misunderstood. thought you meant the formula has to be precise. yea i would agree with you, to be as accurate and efficient as possible it should be reading 3 decimal places dead on. and the attys we use need to have the most solid connections possible which is already the case.The algorithms can be spot on, but the device has to have the precision to measure what is going on. Garbage in, garbage out. My $200 Fluke multimeter cannot differentiate between a 1.2 ohm and a 1.25 ohm coil. Do you really think a $60-70 chip can measure it? I'm not saying it isn't a good idea, I'm just saying that it's not going to work well until the accuracy of the device itself can be improved. I figure you need to be accurate to at least 3 decimal places with a very high sample rate to accurately control a coils temp and still be able to use whatever wire you like.
Nice try, but if it doesn't have a dedicated temperature sensor in the atty it can't measure anything. It can only attempt to extrapolate the coil temp by sensing the resistance change in the wire as it heats up. Limit it can though, LOL.
Ive always found adjusting wattage is my favorite temperature control...if its too hot i turn it down..not enough i turn it up.
I dont see why the technology is such a craze....
Ive never tried alot of things i have opinions on but fair enough.VW is your favorite temperature control because it's the only one you know: you don't see why the technology is such a craze because *you haven't tried it* - like the majority of people who have an opinion on the subject on this here board, sadly.
Ive never tried alot of things i have opinions on but fair enough.
So as you've tried one...explain how its better than just finding a wattage that works for ones particular set up?
Is it that you want to set your device to 50 watts of power(whatever temp that gives off) but it regulates back down to less watts or voltage (the temp that works)so you dont burn up your coil or get dry hits?
Im just trying to understand what makes it so much better and justifies the added cost.
Okay, here's the best analogy I can come up with: a VW device is lke a car without cruise control, while a temp control device is like a car with cruise control. Sure you can drive 100 miles on the freeway and maintain your speed manually, but once you've tried CC, you realize it's much more relaxing, and better at maintaining your set speed than you are. Only people who've never tried cruise control think maintaining your speed by hand is equivalent.
Regarding temperature control: if you don't have it, if your overheat your juice, you think you'll notice because of the unmistakable taste of acrolein in the vapor. Only there are two problems with this:
- When you taste acrolein, it's already too late: the atomizer has cooked your juice and you've inhaled the stuff - which is toxic.
- Even if you can't taste acrolein, it doesn't mean your atomizer hasn't produced any. It just means you can't taste it. Your atomizer may be producing just a little of it (because you're not overheating the juice very much), but the flavoring in the juice masks the taste, or you mistake the sting for throat hit. Me, I *know* this happens. If you want all the details of how I know this, read this post.
With temperature control, it's easy: the mod itself stops the juice from overheating. And let me tell you, the first thing you notice when you get your first temp control mod is how early it hits TP - well before you yourself can detect anything wrong in the vapor.
I'm a big fan of temperature control because it's a fantastic *health* tool, not just a convenience. Sure it's nice to never get dry hits, and it's nice to never have to wonder if you have to recharge your atty before vaping, but the real added value is that it produces vapor that's guaranteed to be acrolein-free.
With mention of "burning the juice",..what temperature is considered hot enough to cause this?
Mind you this board is revision 4 or 5 now. I can't keep upSorry, I wasn't trying to sound confrontational.
Just irritated with Evolve's claims about this tech. I think it's a great first step, but IMHO they released it into the wild before the device they sell could actually do what they say it can.
Why did evolv choose to use nickel? Ponder this everyone....
Pbusardo in the video states kanthal has such little change in resistance as it heats. So why not just make it an easier calculation with roughly %5 fluxuation? I'll admit some of this stuff is over my head but it doesn't make sense the more I look into it. It just seems gimmicky as hell the way it's being presented when there are others ways to accomplish such things. I think YiHi are on point with using joules as a measurement for heat calculations and am anticipating it's release. It could very well be programed for kanthal too I believeI don't know for sure, but I suspect the temperature coefficient (ie the change in resistance vs temperature) of kanthal would be too small to be measured accurately by the chip.
thats what i want to see, temp limiting or controlling using kathal, id use it everyday at that pointA few things...
http://www.epa.gov/airtoxics/hlthef/acrolein.html Read the exposure limits and duration for even accute effects...
Temp Limitation/Control/Protection can be done with kanthal as stated VIA pbusardo in his recent video
Why did evolv choose to use nickel? Ponder this everyone....
[...]Temp Limitation/Control/Protection can be done with kanthal as stated VIA pbusardo in his recent video
Why did evolv choose to use nickel? Ponder this everyone....
I did watch it but it's a lot to digest in one sitting and it was very late at night and I was falling asleep at the time. I'll watch it again to pick up what I missed.Credit where credit's due: that's a really well researched, intelligent and informative Busardo video. He's a little confused over the watt setting in temperature control mode (which shouldn't really exist at all), but otherwise he's got all his facts right. Impressive!
Because the temperature coefficient of kanthal is too low. Busardo even demonstrates it in his video - did you watch it?
The lower the temperature coefficient (and the lower the cold resistance of a nickel coil, incidentally, which is why I always build mine kind of high), the more the static resistance of the atomizer's connectors, the 510 connector and the mod's wiring come into play and skew the temperature measurement.
PBusardo did a very good job with this review. Long winded - check. Thorough - check.
I just fast forward to the graphs and then to the final assessment.