Teach me about the V's and the W's...

[bystander]

Can the Underground teach me about VV's and VW's? What does each one do and how does it affect vaping? If I understand correctly, VV lets you adjust voltage... I noticed increased vapor production by stepping it up. Is it supposed to enhance the flavor as well? Better TH?

What about VW? What does that do? Looking for more info so I can be more knowledgeable once I "move up" to the MVP2...

 

[Savage_46]

VV adjusts voltage only. If you want 3.6, you get 3.6. You want more or less, you get it.

VW (from my understanding) takes into account battery charge & coil resistance to get to your desired watts, or as close as it can.

I've read that a lot of people, myself included, prefer VW. It's a lot more accurate and consistent.

 

[bystander]

I get that - but what does it all mean? What does a higher voltage contribute to the whole experience? What about Higher wattage?

Why do you personally prefer VW? A lot more accurate and consistent...what?

 

[Dhim]

Ok so here goes the quick and easy of it.

It's all math and Ohm's Law (if you have a smartphone download an app).
Essentially your output voltage and your resistance equals your wattage (and amp draw).

Here's an example:
4.2V on a 1ohm coil is 17.65W.

Now with variable voltage you are directly adjusting the voltage to the battery. So if your device is VV or you are in VV mode, if you switch that atomizer and put on a 2ohm coil and leave it at 4.2 here's what you will get:
4.2v on 2ohm coil is 8.88W

Now this will be a much less powerful vape without changing anything. You can adjust the voltage to match the 17W feel you enjoyed from the first example but...

If your device has variable wattage or VW mode it will go like this:
Set the device to 17.5W (most devices can only be adjusted to .5 increments).
If you use that 1ohm coil, it will detect the resistance and fire the coil at 4.2v

Now you put on the 2ohm coil in VW mode and the device is at 17.5W it will automatically adjust the voltage to 5.9v. Therefore giving you a very similar performance as the previous atomizer without having you need to calculate the proper voltage.

In short VV is a direct input of voltage regardless of resistance. VW is more a direct input of feel and the device will do the voltage calculation for you. I almost always use VW mode as it takes a step out for you. Of course its all subjective and some prefer the fine tuning of voltage, but I feel VW keeps you in a nice baseline.

Hope that helps. Let me know if your head is spinning from that or if I did good.

 

[Savage_46]

Yeah, what dhim said. Much better than I could do.

My head kinda spinning from that too. All I know is I like the consistency of VW.

 

[Donald Bickers]

im mostly into mechanicals anymore,but when i use a regulated device i prefer VW,,,,much easier for my simple mind.

 

[robtest]

I like using the VW to keep safe... In DHIM's example (Now you put on the 2ohm coil in VW mode and the device is at 17.5W it will automatically adjust the voltage to 5.9v.) ... If you had a VV mod, and forgot and left it set on 5.9v and screwed in your tank with the 1ohm coil and cranked it up, now you are firing it at close to 30watts ... depending on the materials in the coil, you might fry it...

With VW, you set it in a preferred wattage zone, and the mod adjusts the voltage accordingly...

source url (grimmgreen's site): http://www.grimmgreen.com/post/30254919697/vaping-power-chart-found-via

 

[Chowder]

All the posters are giving some pretty sound advice. In more simplistic/basic terms, I addressed this issue in the following post (Hope it helps!):

http://www.vapingunderground.com/threads/basic-understanding-of-the-components-of-vaping-power.3010/

 

[UncleRJ]

Basicily with VW, you find the right temperature or your "Sweet Spot" for a particular juice and the device maintains that temp for you no matter what topper and coil you are using.

With use, the resistance of your coil may vary but the VW will still maintain that temp for you without having to mess with it like you would have to with VV.

 

[bystander]

@Dhim - thanks for the crash course! You did very well, and while I do understand Ohm's Law (after brushing up), I'm still curious what the real-world implications are. If I'm understanding correctly, more power = more vapor, and that VV's are mostly require manual tuning as opposed to VW's and its automatic calculations.

Taking it a step further - how does this translate to mech/mods? Is it just all power there then - since you can't regulate the wattage directly?

@robtest - Got it. What do you fry - the coil, the battery, or both?

@Chowder - Thanks for pointing that out! That's the info I was looking for.

@UncleRJ - Makes complete sense. I suppose they each have their place, but now I wish I would've jumped to VV/VW in the first place instead of simply taking it to VV. Oh well, more lessons learned along the way, I suppose - things that we can hand down to other folks as we go.

 

[Dhim]

@Dhim - thanks for the crash course! You did very well, and while I do understand Ohm's Law (after brushing up), I'm still curious what the real-world implications are. If I'm understanding correctly, more power = more vapor, and that VV's are mostly require manual tuning as opposed to VW's and its automatic calculations.

Taking it a step further - how does this translate to mech/mods? Is it just all power there then - since you can't regulate the wattage directly?

So with mech mods your voltage and wattage is completely dependent on your battery (and of course voltage drop between the device and atty). So if you put a freshly charged battery in, you're looking at a voltage of 4.2. As you use it, like a gas tank in a car will get lower and lower to 3.5 (or lower).

In general more voltage / wattage is more heat and power getting passed through. This in theory will give you a stronger vape with the extra heat. You will also be vaporizing more liquid faster so bigger "clouds".

You pretty much have the VV and VW thing down perfectly. VV is direct increase of voltage to atomizer with no regard for device resistance. VW is an increase to voltage based on resistance of the atomizer to a desired output wattage.

 

[bystander]

Awesome - thanks for taking the time out to explain the basics.

Thanks to everyone for their input - it is greatly appreciated!

 

[ej1024]

Can the Underground teach me about VV's and VW's? What does each one do and how does it affect vaping? If I understand correctly, VV lets you adjust voltage... I noticed increased vapor production by stepping it up. Is it supposed to enhance the flavor as well? Better TH?

What about VW? What does that do? Looking for more info so I can be more knowledgeable once I "move up" to the MVP2...

Wattage Defined



Wattage, or watts, is a flow rate measurement. It measures the amount of power moving through a wire over a specific period of time. Moving electrical energy along a wire at 1 Joule per second (1 Joule/sec) is equivalent to 1 watt. Comparing it to the plumbing, for example; when someone turns on a faucet, the water is being released in the same way electricity is being released when a light or appliance is turned on. The flow rate of the water is equivalent of the wattage flowing through the wires to the appliance or device.


Voltage Defined



Voltage, or volts, refers to the amount of electrical energy available for use, a form of potential or kinetic energy. Voltage is the amount of electrical pressure waiting to push the electricity along the electrical lines. It compares to the water pressure, or the amount of water waiting to push along the plumbing lines. It's there, waiting for someone to turn on the lights so it can be used.

 

[ej1024]

Watts is the current that flow to ur coil..
Voltage is the power that supply the current or watts to ur coil..
To simplify this in vaping term
When u use VV u are adjusting the power that supply the power to ur coils,the chip will then adjust the wattage in ur device...in unregulated mods/devices u don't get this adjustments automatically,u pretty have to know what ur doing...
If ur using VW u are adjusting the current that goes to ur coils, the chip will then adjust the VOLTS so CURRENT WILL flow to ur desired WATTAGE!! Correct me if I'm wrong with this...ITS ALL BOUT being safe..so good luck, I hope this helps..VAPE ON
Sent from my
LUMIA 1520

 

[Thunderball]

One thing to keep in mind= Battery usage.

I guess I am the sole person on this thread that does not like VW (although its a great for beginers). VW mode is constantly adjusting itself so it uses up your battery quicker.

 

[bystander]

One thing to keep in mind= Battery usage.

I guess I am the sole person on this thread that does not like VW (although its a great for beginers). VW mode is constantly adjusting itself so it uses up your battery quicker.

Good to know - thanks for the input!

 

[Im The Doctor]

VW mode is constantly adjusting itself so it uses up your battery quicker.

Out of curiosity, how much faster will VW kill your battery vs. VV? For example if you had a 1000 mah battery how long would it take to be discharged using each mode?

I've never really paid attention and don't use regulated stuff very much anymore so just wondering if the difference in battery life was significant

 

[Chowder]

If voltage or power are set for the same vape experience, and on the same coil, they should be putting approximately the same amount of energy to the coil/head. Therefore, they would be draining the battery at approximately the same rate. There should be no noticable difference in battery life between adjusting Voltage or Wattage modes. Wattage and Voltage are just two different ways of looking at the same energy output of the batteries.

 

[lordmage]

If voltage or power are set for the same vape experience, and on the same coil, they should be putting approximately the same amount of energy to the coil/head. Therefore, they would be draining the battery at approximately the same rate. There should be no noticable difference in battery life between adjusting Voltage or Wattage modes. Wattage and Voltage are just two different ways of looking at the same energy output of the batteries.

yes but to get the same experience on VV or VW requires a slightly different approach.

when in wattage mode it adapts the voltage to get you the wattage you set within the devices amp limit regardless of the resistance within its operating range.

Volts will get you a certain watts within the devices amp limit but you may need to adjust the resistance of your coil to get to the place.

30 watts is 30 watts for a wattage device, but 30 watts for a voltage device can only acquired if the ohms are correct and the device can support the amp limit need to get the voltage required.

Volts/Ohm=current

To work out power using the quantities of Ohm’s Law, you can use these equations:



P = V^2 / R P = I^2R P = VI


Power is P in these equations. So if you want to work out how many watts you’re vaping at, you simply work out the voltage squared (at 3.4 V: 3.4^2 = 3.4 × 3.4 = 11.56) and then divide the result by the resistance (at 1.8 Ω, 11.56 / 1.8 = 6.4222… so around 6.4 W). Additionally, you can use the value of the current you’ve worked out previously with either of the remaining two equations (remembering that P = VI means power equals voltage multiplied by current).

 

[Chowder]

yes but to get the same experience on VV or VW requires a slightly different approach.

when in wattage mode it adapts the voltage to get you the wattage you set within the devices amp limit regardless of the resistance within its operating range.

Volts will get you a certain watts within the devices amp limit but you may need to adjust the resistance of your coil to get to the place.

30 watts is 30 watts for a wattage device, but 30 watts for a voltage device can only acquired if the ohms are correct and the device can support the amp limit need to get the voltage required.

Volts/Ohm=current

To work out power using the quantities of Ohm’s Law, you can use these equations:



P = V^2 / R P = I^2R P = VI


Power is P in these equations. So if you want to work out how many watts you’re vaping at, you simply work out the voltage squared (at 3.4 V: 3.4^2 = 3.4 × 3.4 = 11.56) and then divide the result by the resistance (at 1.8 Ω, 11.56 / 1.8 = 6.4222… so around 6.4 W). Additionally, you can use the value of the current you’ve worked out previously with either of the remaining two equations (remembering that P = VI means power equals voltage multiplied by current).

Agreed, and very informative. However, the question @Im The Doctor asked is if they (adjusting by Power vs. Voltage) would drain the battery at a different rate. For approximately the same vape experience on the same set up, the wattage setting (when adjusting by Power) would have to provide approximately the same voltage output as the initial voltage setting (when adjusting by Voltage) for comparison. Therefore, the battery drain rate would be approximately the same. Since the device is using a minute amount of power to sample the wattage ratio calculation, there might be a measurable amount of higher battery drain rate when adjusting by power than with voltage. However, I don't believe the measurable difference would equate to a noticeable difference in the amount of vaping time experienced (battery life between charges).

 

[Thunderball]

Agreed, and very informative. However, the question @Im The Doctor asked is if they (adjusting by Power vs. Voltage) would drain the battery at a different rate. For approximately the same vape experience on the same set up, the wattage setting (when adjusting by Power) would have to provide approximately the same voltage output as the initial voltage setting (when adjusting by Voltage) for comparison. Therefore, the battery drain rate would be approximately the same. Since the device is using a minute amount of power to sample the wattage ratio calculation, there might be a measurable amount of higher battery drain rate when adjusting by power than with voltage. However, I don't believe the measurable difference would equate to a noticeable difference in the amount of vaping time experienced (battery life between charges).

That sounds reasonable when you put thoughts to paper, but its another thing when you experience it first hand....on the same device. I can only speak from experience using an SVD and Vamo an about a year and a half ago, and then on a high end device (Semovar-Nivel chip). I simply use more batteries in a day in VW as oposed to VV and so have many others in some long threads on this same subject on "the other" forum.

Maybe thats not true with a newer device thats come out in the past 6 months........but I seriously doubt it.

 

[robtest]

Seems the VW sets the voltage based on the coil ohms, so it should be the equilvalent of setting the VV to the same voltage and leaving it there...

 

[Dhim]

I still can't see it being that much more of a drain. You have to think with the mah rating our batteries have, think of how long we can keep our devices on for. Firing is a different story and amp drain skyrockets. However a brief query for wattage calculation, taking milliseconds I simply can't see it draining. Even if it does that query every time you fire.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Chowder]

I also have a Vamo V3 AND MVP (had others also) and do not see a major difference when adjusting to the approximate same vape experience. @Thunderball, are you talking about hours, minutes, or number of vapes in difference? Anything less than an hour I would tend to think is inconsequential. But, I would still argue that I have not noticed an appreciative difference in my experience. If you or somebody else has, great. I can only state the theory and my experience that has tended to support it.

 

[Chowder]

I still can't see it being that much more of a drain. You have to think with the mah rating our batteries have, think of how long we can keep our devices on for. Firing is a different story and amp drain skyrockets. However a brief query for wattage calculation, taking milliseconds I simply can't see it draining. Even if it does that query every time you fire.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Agreed! It might be able to be measured, but not equate to experience of battery life. Making it inconsequential to battery drain comparisons of the two

 

[Im The Doctor]

That sounds reasonable when you put thoughts to paper, but its another thing when you experience it first hand....on the same device. I can only speak from experience using an SVD and Vamo an about a year and a half ago, and then on a high end device (Semovar-Nivel chip). I simply use more batteries in a day in VW as oposed to VV and so have many others in some long threads on this same subject on "the other" forum.

Maybe thats not true with a newer device thats come out in the past 6 months........but I seriously doubt it.

So quick follow up question - how many more batteries were you using? Was it twice as much, or did you just have to change it sooner? If you normally swap batteries at 5 pm, were you having to change it at lunch, or was it only an hour or two sooner? Or if you normally use 1 battery, were you using 2 or 3? Certainly can't argue with real world results, just trying to quantify them

 

[Dhim]

@lordmage I'm reading your post and literally laughing out loud. It's an amazing Wattage vs Voltage explanation but poor @bystander was confused by the basics of "VV vs VW". I was going out of my way to try and simplify it and here you come with

P = V^2 / R P = I^2R P = VI

Well played sir!

 

[lordmage]

@lordmage I'm reading your post and literally laughing out loud. It's an amazing Wattage vs Voltage explanation but poor @bystander was confused by the basics of "VV vs VW". I was going out of my way to try and simplify it and here you come with



Well played sir!

if a simple math Equation can not clear confusion then even google can not help.

 

[Thunderball]

So quick follow up question - how many more batteries were you using? Was it twice as much, or did you just have to change it sooner? If you normally swap batteries at 5 pm, were you having to change it at lunch, or was it only an hour or two sooner? Or if you normally use 1 battery, were you using 2 or 3? Certainly can't argue with real world results, just trying to quantify them

Thats a good question and Ive been thinking about that for the last 20 minutes or so really trying to remember if it was that big of
a deal. I guess since a slightly better vape is well worth one to two hundred dollars extra to many of us, the better battery life was part of my journey to a better vape experience.

I never did document and log my findings so I could pull it out a year and a half later and go...... "heres the scientific percentage of how much battery life I lost", But I do remember going from 3 18650 AW's in VW to 4 in VW on the Vamo...... a bit worse on the SVD as it ate power more than the Vamo (though I liiked the SVD build better)....I would say maybe an extra one and a half on the SVD. Now you have to factor in that I vape about 7 mls a day (No dripper) but on a Kayfun original back then. Thats alot of vaping for many...... not so much for a cloud chasing.
At that point (oh, owned other mods and mechs as well..original MVP's (both still working)....I went with a Semovar for the simple fact that it would go into hybrid mode on the Kayfun 3.0, 3.1,3.1 ES.....Heard that may be a better vape than the Provari so gave that a shot. I tried it in both modes with about the same results.....two extra 18350's (5 total ? ) ........ an extra 18500 a day ( 3 to 4 total) It was so long in 18650, I just didnt use them.

Now, I only tried it in VW maybe two different days then never went back. Didnt see the need.
Is that a significant difference ? No to some, maybe yes to some. Whats an extra battery to carry around ?

Its all in what you find important I guess. I change toppers out with diff juices, but I always build the same ohm coil because I know what I like now. I normally vape at the same Volts/watts unless Im trying something new so I know where my sweet spot is. If i put your topper on my mod, I could find the sweet spot is seconds in VV. I could also find it in seconds in VW.

I still think VW was a great step forward for vaping. I wish it were available when I started vaping. Hell, I wish there was more than Egos and 510 drippers and cartos when I started. The last 4 mods I have bought have VW, but dont use it. Im waiting on the new Provari with great expectation, maybe because Im bored and even though I will probably get one, I doubt I will use the VW mode that it presumably will have.

Again, I dont remeber exactly how much of a difference it was, but it was noticable at the end of the day and it was noticable to alot of other people on the forums, but never drastic difference.