DW & Saline Max

[Huckleberried]

Hey hi! I'll try and be brief, but will put as much info as I can to help.

I've been vaping only for almost one year now (5 more days!), DIY for maybe 5 or 6 months (?). I get my nic from WL only, VG & PG from WL, RTS and ECX - varies at time of purchase. My ratio is 75pg/25vg with 3% Saline included as VG.

Follow? Good.

I tried to increase the VG because my throat started to get irritated a bit from, I assume, the PG, and only since starting DIY. 60/40 and even 70/30 made my chest hurt and feel really heavy. I started adding the 3% Saline to see if it'd make a difference at 75/25. It did some, but I still feel the heaviness.

So.... my question is will adding DW to my current mix help with the heaviness and throat irritation? If so, how much? Do you add that as VG?

Yes, I've heard of Vaperstek nic, lol. Need to deplete what I have on hand due to lack of space and funds atm.

Thanks for your help, y'all.

 

[UncleRJ]

From what I understand, adding a wee bit of distilled water to VG will indeed thin it out a bit.

As far as the heaviness, everyone reacts differently so I can't tell you for sure what will work best.

Hopefully someone here that has had a similar issue can jump in and tell you what they did to elevate their own problem.

But this is the first time I have ever heard of using a saline solution in any percentage. Distilled water sure but not Saline.

 

[Smoky Blue]

have you tried to lower that saline??
if I am wanting moisture or a saltiness, then i will add saline, but only in drops.. not %..


I really do not see the sense in adding dw (distilled water)..
some do it for "bubbles" others to lower the thickness in vg..
but try narrowing it down before adding the dw..
then see what happens..

You may not be able to handle vg..

 

[flowerpots]

@Huckleberried, I've heard adding DW will help with throat irritation and also dry mouth/dry throat. I haven't tested this, but I've read it several times.

 

[Smoky Blue]

@Huckleberried, I've heard adding DW will help with throat irritation and also dry mouth/dry throat. I haven't tested this, but I've read it several times.

I have played with dw.. doesn't do a thing for me, but then again.. I am max vg..
I can not handle pg due to coughing, throat hurting and sounding like i have been to a concert..

 

[Huckleberried]

I just don't want to read a post that says, "Girl, you're screwed!".

Yeah, we2rcool posted a lot of stuff about using Saline 0.9% when I was spending time at ECF previously. Actually, I'd read a lot about it. One of those multi-use things. Amanda has said the same about high vg intolerance, but damn, I don't consider 25 all that high? Well... till I realize it's one 4th, lol. Crap.

 

[Smoky Blue]

i'd pick out what you are working with now.. before adding anything else into your mixture..

try killing the vg, if you know for a fact.. it is not the saline..
then kill the saline and add vg..
then go with a pg only..
or a vg only..

test it out.. find your spot

 

[UncleRJ]

Just to bring it up, no one has mentioned proper hydration.

I think it makes a HUGE difference and I make it a point to drink a lot of water during the day.

Fortunately I don't seem to have an adverse reaction to either PG or VG.

But I do have to go to the bathroom quite a bit.

 

[Huckleberried]

Just to bring it up, no one has mentioned proper hydration.

I think it makes a HUGE difference and I make it a point to drink a lot of water during the day.

Fortunately I don't seem to have an adverse reaction to either PG or VG.

But I do have to go to the bathroom quite a bit.

LOL, yep, same here. I definitely stay hydrated. But, thanks for mentioning that. If anyone new were to read this, especially. It's ALWAYS a good reminder, whether or not you vape.

Smoky, you're right. I'll have to do the process of elimination. You mean I have to mix more and vape more? Damn research.

 

[UncleRJ]

LOL, yep, same here. I definitely stay hydrated. But, thanks for mentioning that. If anyone new were to read this, especially. It's ALWAYS a good reminder, whether or not you vape.

And sadly, beer does not count toward said hydration

 

[wllmc]

the exact amount of saline and DW one should use is exactly zero lol....... just kidding you know I am not a fan of that stuff 90/95 VG 10/5 PG and good to go. ......... in the winter Ill go higher on the PG but I work outside in the colorado winter. that high of VG gets super thick in the cold weather

 

[Huckleberried]

the exact amount of saline and DW one should use is exactly zero lol....... just kidding you know I am not a fan of that stuff 90/95 VG 10/5 PG and good to go. ......... in the winter Ill go higher on the PG but I work outside in the colorado winter. that high of VG gets super thick in the cold weather

So in the winter you suck harder?
I'm sorry, dude. I had to. We're in a new playground; no holds barred.

 

[RocketPuppy]

Hey Huck, I actually had the same thing and increased my vg, only for it to get worse. Turned out I have an intolerance to vg and need to keep it under 30%. I usually end up making 85/15 which probably seems odd to most. I've tried both dw and saline and different percentages of everything, but until I lowered my vg, nothing helped.

Whatever is up, I hope you start feeling better. My suggestion would be to vape 100% pg for a day and then 90% vg/10% DW a day and see if one or the other causes the heavy feeling. If you have insurance, you can also get a skin allergy test.

 

[Huckleberried]

Thanks Rocket. That heaviness is irritating! Yeah, I was at 80/20, currently at 75/25, so I'll go back up and see what happens. Thanks everyone. Process of elimination begins.

 

[RocketPuppy]

Thanks Rocket. That heaviness is irritating! Yeah, I was at 80/20, currently at 75/25, so I'll go back up and see what happens. Thanks everyone. Process of elimination begins.

Have you tried vaping vg with dw and no pg? lol - abbreviations

 

[Huckleberried]

Have you tried vaping vg with dw and no pg? lol - abbreviations

When you can read and understand all that, you know you're a vaper

No, I haven't tried that. What % would you suggest?

 

[RocketPuppy]

My recommendation would be to avoid pg for an entire day to see if that's the problem, meaning you'd also have to avoid flavors unless you have some without pg. Try 90%vg/10%dw. If the heavy feeling worsens after a few hours, then try vaping just pg. I would do this before adding saline or any flavors. This way you can first eliminate the problem before adding in additional variants.

 

[Huckleberried]

Good info. Thanks Rocket!

 

[kelli]

on a similar note.....when i get too dehydrated from vaping, i feel a tingly feverish feeling in my face, and pretty soon my neck, arms and chest start itching like i am covered in chiggers. anybody else ever get that or am i just weird? well i knew that already, but does anybody else get that?

 

[Huckleberried]

I can't say I have. When I first started out I'd just get major cotton mouth and a bit of vapor's tongue, I guess. Kinda just icky feeling in general. I do my best to just stay hydrated, but can still get cotton mouth, especially after testing out samples. Hopefully, staying hydrated will help you out with that, as well. Sounds uncomfortable, Kelli.

 

[kelli]

I can't say I have. When I first started out I'd just get major cotton mouth and a bit of vapor's tongue, I guess. Kinda just icky feeling in general. I do my best to just stay hydrated, but can still get cotton mouth, especially after testing out samples. Hopefully, staying hydrated will help you out with that, as well. Sounds uncomfortable, Kelli.

yeah it is for sure. it's almost like breaking out in itchy hives, but there isn't any hives....just itching so bad it drives me to distraction!

 

[Huckleberried]

That's exactly how I get when I spend an extended period of time in the sun. And that pisses me off lol. Face, neck, chest and arms. Man, I used to tan really well, too.

 

[kelli]

That's exactly how I get when I spend an extended period of time in the sun. And that pisses me off lol. Face, neck, chest and arms. Man, I used to tan really well, too.

what happened, did you turn into a ginger? we don't tan....we roast.

 

[Huckleberried]

Lol, no... Dermatologist informed me years ago I have rosacea and Discoid Lupus. I don't really have to deal with either very often at all, but when I do, it's misery. Systemic Lupus is the kind that affects people painfully and horribly, so I suppose if I have to have it, I have the kind to have? God that's an awful way to put it.

 

[kelli]

lesser of two evils, i spose. but i am sorry you have it and hope it occurs very, very rarely.

 

[flowerpots]

I've developed pretty bad allergies the last few years, after never having any my whole life. It started with wasp/bee stings, then progressed to laundry soap and shampoos, then to medications, usually pain meds. Anyway, the reason I say this is when I am having a reaction to certain things, for example the NRT patches, I don't get actual hives, but I itch like a mofo. Mostly on my face, neck, upper body, but sometimes other places too. You may be allergic to 1 or more of the ingredients in juice you are vaping. I don't get itchy when deydrated, but I feel very lethargic and this is when I know to start guzzling water.

 

[kelli]

I've developed pretty bad allergies the last few years, after never having any my whole life. It started with wasp/bee stings, then progressed to laundry soap and shampoos, then to medications, usually pain meds. Anyway, the reason I say this is when I am having a reaction to certain things, for example the NRT patches, I don't get actual hives, but I itch like a mofo. Mostly on my face, neck, upper body, but sometimes other places too. You may be allergic to 1 or more of the ingredients in juice you are vaping. I don't get itchy when deydrated, but I feel very lethargic and this is when I know to start guzzling water.

hmmm, sounds very much like what i get, hon. maybe i should start charting what juice i am vaping when the itching attacks come. and then eliminate that sucker. just hope it's not my beloved peanut butter.

 

[flowerpots]

hmmm, sounds very much like what i get, hon. maybe i should start charting what juice i am vaping when the itching attacks come. and then eliminate that sucker. just hope it's not my beloved peanut butter.

Honestly, I would. It's a PITA to do, the whole process of elimination thing, but I would just start to pay attention. It may be easier than it seems. I just said all of that mainly to let you know I experience the same thing with allergies - not having hives but still being itchy.

 

[skagit]

I do max VG. To get away from the throat hit. It has been hit with 32 years of stinkies. Except the small amount of pg in flavoring. In 10ml I will add 4 drops from a old FA flavor bottle of bottled water. It thins it a bit. after a round in rice and 2 mins on paint shaker it looks like milk. Let it clear and load it up.
So a 5 ml I will add 2 drops.

 

[RocketPuppy]

on a similar note.....when i get too dehydrated from vaping, i feel a tingly feverish feeling in my face, and pretty soon my neck, arms and chest start itching like i am covered in chiggers. anybody else ever get that or am i just weird? well i knew that already, but does anybody else get that?

That definitely sounds like an allergic reaction to something. Have you tried vaping thing individually?

 

[kelli]

That definitely sounds like an allergic reaction to something. Have you tried vaping thing individually?

i think you are right.

 

[Huckleberried]

Kelli, thank you, and yes, rarely.

Flowerpots, wow. I think you've nailed this down for her. Nice job. We shall now address you as Dr. Flowerpots. I'm really, really glad you both shared your experiences! Kelli, good luck and I hope it all helps you.

 

[kelli]

aww thanks!

 

[Huckleberried]

Update thus far:

Max VG with 10% DW. Felt like pneumonia. I'll be decreasing my normal VG% next. Somewhere between 80/20vg & 85/15vg. I'll be vaporless. Not flavorless, though. That was boring!

 

[AmandaD]

Max VG? If I go even at 50/50 I cough really badly, and I did try that for a while with 5% .09 saline and 10%DW. I'm at 70PG/30VG now, but I still cough if the juice is in an RDA (not so much in a little clearo). I guess I'm going for 80/20 next. I will tell you that when I tried that with WL earlier I just didn't care for it - something was missing. But I'll try it with the VT nic and see if that makes a difference. In any event, this cough really needs to stop - I sound like I smoke sometimes when I'm chain vaping LOL And, no, I didn't find the DW/saline made any difference to how the VG felt on my chest.

 

[Huckleberried]

I tried Max VG with DW, recommended by Rocket for my process of elimination. It was no nic, since my nic is PG, the Max VG was the easiest beginning for elimination. I have suspected VG being the culprit, since each time I've tried to go above 80/20vg there's the chest issue, but the 80pg/20 is causing my throat to hurt a bit, too, lately. Now, if it comes down to it being the nic itself, then I'll have to consider switching, but I hate to waste the nic I have on hand, ya know? Then again, I do mix for boyfriend, it would take longer to use up for just him... LONGER.

I'll keep experimenting with what's on hand, whittling down the VG for now. Frustrating, but not enough to go back to smoking!

 

[Huckleberried]

Just a sideways thought....... has anyone had bad experiences with RTS Vg? I don't have much of that left and only ordered at that time to pad my order. VG is cheap enough I'd get rid of it.

 

[AmandaD]

My nic comes from Essential Depot. But quite frankly if it's making your chest heavy, no brand of VG is going to be different! Anytime I ever try purchased juice I can tell that it's 50/50 of higher because I can't stop coughing.

 

[HeadInClouds]

The range of possible reactions to the various ingredients really interests me.

PG makes my tinnitus unbearable, so I have to minimize it. Even using >5% flavoring is enough to set it off. So I switched to max VG. Then I sometimes broke out in unbearable itching - neck, chest, sides, inside of my elbows. It came and went, but I tracked it to VG.

I thought I might have to quit vaping. What if you can't tolerate either PG or VG? There's nothing else I know of (are there alternatives?)
I switched to a different supplier for VG, and no more itching.. for a while.. then it returned. Switched again...solved for now. Next time, I'll switch again. I have a collection of VG in my freezer, lol!

VG can be made from soy, coconut, or palm oil. It might include corn or beet products. It has been made from jatropha (which can contain toxins and was briefly a scandal). It can be produced synthetically with petroleum products. The list is long. Any or all of those sources would be simply labeled, 'vegetable glycerin.' Glycerin can also be derived from animal fats - though we assume 'vegetable glycerin' would contain none of that. Different vendors get VG from different sources that use different ingredients, and a VG producer may switch to different products as prices/availability/seasons change.

If you're allergic to soy, vaping soy-derived VG can cause a reaction, but palm-oil VG may be fine. How do you know what was used to produce your VG? What combination is in there? It's hard to find out. However it is easy to get some from a few different sources like I have.

I've never had shortness of breath or a heavy feeling from vaping, but I hear about that a lot. It does seem to usually resolve when people use less VG. Is it because they are sensitive to 'VG' or to the particular plant source? Would it resolve with VG from a different source? I don't know, but if you can't tolerated PG, it's worth investigating. If you do fine with PG, then no need to worry about it. imo.

 

[Huckleberried]

What a post! Wow, good stuff. So far, I do know too much VG causes the heavy chest feeling. I'll have to try full on PG at some point. I will at least reduce the Vg. It'll be such a tiny amount. I would hate to think I can't use either.

Can I make candies with all my flavorings and add nic? I'm kidding.

 

[AmandaD]

HIC, the reason I'm pretty sure my VG intolerance is widespread is because I've tried so many different vendor juices - they can't all have the same VG! I put my problem down to 40 years of smoking - I suspect my lungs aren't what they were LOL Did I miss that Huck can't tolerate PG? I thought it was just VG, but that PG caused dry throat, etc (which it does).

 

[RocketPuppy]

Huck - have you tried vaping pg without anything else yet? When I vape it alone, I have no problems.

 

[HeadInClouds]

Can I make candies with all my flavorings and add nic? I'm kidding.

Hey, when I thought maybe I couldn't use either PG or VG, I looked into alternative nic delivery systems.

Since it is absorbed rapidly through skin, I considered making a lotion. Seriously! Then I found there's a company (in England I think) that already does that. They use miniscule amounts though.

I use bath soap with caffeine. It was a gift; everyone knows I'm addicted to coffee. I considered making soap with nicotine. Or adding it to sunscreen, which I apply often. If I become intolerant to VG, I'll come up with something.

(I always wanted to mention this on that other forum, but I knew it would get me kicked off. I like it here! )

 

[Huckleberried]

Yep, I'm sure it would have. I like our new home, too.

Caffeinated soap? Wow, that's awesome. I'm sipping coffee right now. I love my coffee, too.

You are one with many talents, HIC. I think you could do anything, really. I'd buy what you sell.

 

[RocketPuppy]

There are actually many people allergic to vg and have to eliminate it from household products, which is difficult to do. I imagine once more and more people begin vaping, allergic reactions will increase and the research will become addressed more than it is now.

Huck, You can also get a skin test to see if it's an allergic reaction, an intolerance, or if it causes asthma like symptoms.

What if you can't tolerate either PG or VG? There's nothing else I know of (are there alternatives?)
I switched to a different supplier for VG, and no more itching.. for a while.. then it returned. Switched again...solved for now. Next time, I'll switch again. I have a collection of VG in my freezer, lol!

I've tried many different types of vg with the same results, but luckily, I don't have a negative reaction to pg.

In terms of alternatives for people who can't tolerate either, there is PEG400 - Polyethylene Glycol and Triacetin, (which is what some companies use in place of pg for pg-free flavor concentrates), which both come with their own problems. When I first noticed the problems, I found some other dilutants too, but can seem to find my initial research (though I'll continue to look).

 

[RocketPuppy]

To find the problem without going to a doc, vaping pg and then vg alone is the only way to eliminate which is problem...or if both are the culprits.

 

[Huckleberried]

I remember reading about PEG400. Thanks for the info. I'll keep testing.

 

[RocketPuppy]

=)

I like that I don't need to post 10 characters, though I am now since I'm adding all these needless words.

 

[Smoky Blue]

I wish you both good luck..
I can't do pg.. and what pg I do use, I have to use in small amounts too..
it makes me cough, throat hurt and i sound like i have been to a concert for a week..

 

[HeadInClouds]

In terms of alternatives for people who can't tolerate either, there is PEG400 - Polyethylene Glycol and Triacetin, (which is what some companies use in place of pg for pg-free flavor concentrates), which both come with their own problems. When I first noticed the problems, I found some other dilutants too, but can seem to find my initial research (though I'll continue to look).

Hey - I never heard of it. That deserves a separate thread, if you find info or links to post!