Interesting morning find - IPV4 battery discharge

[Kaged_Gryphon]

So, something interesting happened this morning as I was leaving for work. I went to use my IPV4 as I went out the door and nothing happened. Thinking it was off I tried to turn it on: no dice. Swapped the batteries out and it turned on instantly. Finally got home and the 2 that were dead this morning read 2.2v and 2.6v... These are 25R's from Genuine Cells on ebay. They are charging fine on the .5a setting on my LUC v4. Should I be concerned?

 

[Teresa P]

@UncleRJ

 

[Zamazam]

wow, that meant the mod discharged the batteries to their built in shutoff point. I'd pay close attention to how low it takes your batteries. The batts are ok, but don't go that low again with them, it will kill the lifespan of the batteries.

 

[Kaged_Gryphon]

The weird part? My IPV4 said 1/3-1/2 battery life left when I went to sleep yesterday. Woke up this morning and they were dead. Or well, atleast I think thats what the IPV4 said. Having to take meds to sleep due to shoulder issues screws with my memory. I have noticed that when the IPV4 says about 1/3 battery life left that the batteries are at 3.3v roughly. And one battery usually is .1v lower. Should I be worried that the IPV4 is not using batteries right?

 

[JXN]

I've seen one other complaint about the IPV4 and batterries not draining accurately. It's something I'm going to monitor with my multimeter when mine comes in next week.

 

[UncleRJ]

This just does not sound right to me.

The Samsung 25Rs are well known and have a great rep.

While I do not have an IPV4, if it is similar in design and function to my other higher wattage mods, the device should shut down when the voltage goes below 3.2v MAX or even more likely at 3.4v.

Certainly not 2.2 and 2.6v!

There is only two ways IMHO that can happen.

The first scenario is that you use the device until it shows the battery charge is down to 1/3rd of a charge. Then you take more of the meds that you need to sleep (BTW I can sympathise with you). Many more actually. You go to sleep and wake up 6 months later smelling like an old goat and your IPV4 is not functioning because the batteries show under 2.6v.

The second scenario is that your IPV4 is not functioning properly and you send it in for replacement or warranty repair.

Sure, I guess the batteries could be at fault but I rather doubt it unless someone is selling fake Samsung 25Rs. But then, why counterfeit a $7 battery?

One other thing, you may wish to consider purchasing a 2 bay Xtar charger. As those suckers can normally "fix" an over discharged battery.

 

[dre]

Check if the charge light is on while the batterys are in. The ipv4 charge board sometimes shorts out since it's so crammed in.

 

[Slurp812]

Something is draining them. Most list 2.5v as the lowest to go, ever. The 2.2 one may be damaged and lack the capacity it once had. My Xtar changer claims to be able to nurse overly discharged cells back to life, but they wont be 100% of course...

 

[Mike H.]

I personally wouldnt use a cell thats been over discharged or over charged...I would get 2 new batteries and charge at 1/3 power level or around 3.0 to 3.2v

I suppose charging and letting the device sit to see if it did in fact discharge them while not in use is a priority for your safety and possible warranty work needed...If you have different batteries try those as well to eliminate the samsungs as the issue..I still wouldnt buy them from ebay however...You can buy them from a reputable source for less than 6 dollars a piece.

Hopefully you have some sort of back up to use in the meantime.

 

[Jon@LiionWholesale]

Since both were discharged it seems very unlikely that the batteries are to blame, so your mod is probably to blame. The batteries should be safe to use, 2.2V is fine although going down there will decrease the battery lifespan so don't do it by choice. I would also recommend somehow verifying that your mod isn't discharging batteries on its own...maybe put some batteries in it and let it sit while you're awake?

Sure, I guess the batteries could be at fault but I rather doubt it unless someone is selling fake Samsung 25Rs. But then, why counterfeit a $7 battery?

Man, you don't know China. There are definitely lots of counterfeit 25R's out there. There was just a story recently about someone being arrested for importing big quantities of counterfeit 25R's.

In the electronics world they're known to counterfeit capacitors that cost 10 cents. If they can make 1 cent extra per component by counterfeiting there are companies there that absolutely will do it. Making a couple bucks per by doing the same with a $7 battery seems like a gold mine relatively.

 

[Kaged_Gryphon]

Sorry about late reply, long day at work. The charge light does not come on when batteries are in. And so far, my other pair of 25R's is fine. Have 2/3 battery left. And I've used it to build 2 separate builds in my Turbo v2. A dual parallel build and a dual tri-parallel build. As soon as I wick and test the tri-parallel build I will pull the batteries and check their voltages.

 

[Kaged_Gryphon]

So, looks like the IPV4 needs to have the battery indicator recalibrated.

 

[Saddletramp1200]

Since both were discharged it seems very unlikely that the batteries are to blame, so your mod is probably to blame. The batteries should be safe to use, 2.2V is fine although going down there will decrease the battery lifespan so don't do it by choice. I would also recommend somehow verifying that your mod isn't discharging batteries on its own...maybe put some batteries in it and let it sit while you're awake?



Man, you don't know China. There are definitely lots of counterfeit 25R's out there. There was just a story recently about someone being arrested for importing big quantities of counterfeit 25R's.

In the electronics world they're known to counterfeit capacitors that cost 10 cents. If they can make 1 cent extra per component by counterfeiting there are companies there that absolutely will do it. Making a couple bucks per by doing the same with a $7 battery seems like a gold mine relatively.

Bear with me on this. Electronic circuits can grow "tin whiskers" between components on a board. Takes a powerful microscope to see them. Had a new Ham radio that would go dead in 2 days even turned off. Short circuit so small it can't be noticed.

 

[dre]

3.7 is halfway 3.2 is low to dead 4.2 full

 

[Kaged_Gryphon]

3.7 is halfway 3.2 is low to dead 4.2 full

Wonder if its the ipv4? Doesn't seem like anyone else is noticing this. But I wonder how many people pay attention to what their battery voltage is when they remove them. I know on my ipv4 it seems half battery life left has the batteries at roughly 3.4

 

[Joeharly17]

I had similar issue a while back. A month ago or so my IPV4 displayed "low battery". I thought it was strange but maybe Sony VTC4's may have just tapped out. I put them on the charger and one registered 3.9 and the other one 2.1. I chocked it up as an expired set and chunked them in the trash. Today, I Got home from work today and tried to use my IPV4 and SAME EXACT THING. Screen displayed "low battery". Mod was over 3/4 full this morning. Threw my batteries on the charger and one is at 4.1 while the other shows 1.89!!! These are Samsung 25r's. In my opinion it is NOT the batteries. I believe it's the mod. For some reason my mod is eating batteries. Sucks because I actually love this thing...

 

[Kaged_Gryphon]

I had similar issue a while back. A month ago or so my IPV4 displayed "low battery". I thought it was strange but maybe Sony VTC4's may have just tapped out. I put them on the charger and one registered 3.9 and the other one 2.1. I chocked it up as an expired set and chunked them in the trash. Today, I Got home from work today and tried to use my IPV4 and SAME EXACT THING. Screen displayed "low battery". Mod was over 3/4 full this morning. Threw my batteries on the charger and one is at 4.1 while the other shows 1.89!!! These are Samsung 25r's. In my opinion it is NOT the batteries. I believe it's the mod. For some reason my mod is eating batteries. Sucks because I actually love this thing...

If you are okay with voiding your warranty, take it apart and see if the charge board is contacting the metal post or the 510 pin. I wrapped mine with electrical tape and haven't had issues since.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

 

[Joeharly17]

I'll look into that, thank you.

 

[Kjc99]

Hey guys just got my ipv4s and noticed something weird and hopefully it's normal... If I press the up/down button the display will only stay on for like 5-10 seconds... But if I press the fire button it will stay on much longer maybe a minute least... So I've been taking a pull and then immediately pressing the wattage up for my display to turn off... Maybe this is causing some battery drain... So I was wondering if anyone had this issue or if it's normal.... Take a pull set down your mod and see how long it takes for display to turn off.... After the screen is off press up/ or down button and see that it only stays on for a few seconds... Very annoying to me... Let me know if it's just my device

 

[Mike H.]

So, looks like the IPV4 needs to have the battery indicator recalibrated.View attachment 21608View attachment 21609

I could be wrong here but it seems based on something that was explained to me previously.

The battery voltage you are seeing on the mod is NOT the batteries actual voltage...The numbers you see are what is being sent to the 510 connector to fire whatever you have on the mod...A way to prove this is by changing your wattage and seeing how that voltage number changes...i have no doubt at 3.2v the mod wont even fire anymore and it will show empty on the battery level display or, the mod may display a "low battery" message on the screen and not fire.

Lower your watts and watch that voltage number drop...raise wattage (if you have more) and it will rise...I dont think you have an issue with battery voltage calibration..just sayin.

 

[JColt]

Just pulled a completely flat mxjo out of briefcase mod. I had it shut off. Battery dead as dead can be.

 

[Kaged_Gryphon]

I could be wrong here but it seems based on something that was explained to me previously.

The battery voltage you are seeing on the mod is NOT the batteries actual voltage...The numbers you see are what is being sent to the 510 connector to fire whatever you have on the mod...A way to prove this is by changing your wattage and seeing how that voltage number changes...i have no doubt at 3.2v the mod wont even fire anymore and it will show empty on the battery level display or, the mod may display a "low battery" message on the screen and not fire.

Lower your watts and watch that voltage number drop...raise wattage (if you have more) and it will rise...I dont think you have an issue with battery voltage calibration..just sayin.

When I posted that I was pointing out that the IPV4 showed half battery left yet both read at roughly 3.6v, which is recharge time for most people.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

 

[NemesisVaper]

When I posted that I was pointing out that the IPV4 showed half battery left yet both read at roughly 3.6v, which is recharge time for most people.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

The cutoff voltage in the IPV4 is 3.2V. The gauge will be calibrated to reflect that.

3.6V in a mech seams reasonable. Most cells I put on charge out of my Nemesis are between 3.4V and 3.6V. In a regulated device going down to 3.2V is fine. Of course, your batteries will last longer if you charge them at 3.6V instead but there's no danger from vaping all the way down till the low voltage warning, as long as the cells you use have a high enough amp limit. The lower the voltage the more Amps I'll be drawn in a regulated device to supply the same wattage.

I've not read all the posts in this thread, so was wondering, did you have an issue with some cells being completely discharged but themselves? A reviewer I watch had issues like that. They exchanged the mod and the new one was fine.

 

[WyattErbb]

Ive been using the ipv4 approximately 3 months.

Have always used sony vtc5 & imren batteries.

I ususally leave the ipv on throughout the night.

Woke today, grabbed the ipv4 and dropped it immediatly due to fire hot the ipv felt. I mean HOT. I have had 18650 mods heat up, but nothing like this. The ipv wouldnt work until it cooled down. Wouldnt fire, wouldnt turn on, only worked to drain the battery.

After cool, I replaced the battery with two fresh charged batteries. The ipv turns on, fires, but continues to drain the batteries into the mod itself. After a minute or two it is back to fire hot again.

Additionally, I now notice that a small red light is continuously lit up when the batteties are in the unit, which from my understanding only lights up if you are charging your batteries inside the ipv, as this light should only shine if I am charging it, which I havr never done. Ive always charged my batteries seperatly.

If you ask me, I think Ive figure out why the company that makes the IPV (Pioneer 4 You) is rumored to have stopped production of all vaping products. Although helpful, there is a lot of unforseen danger associated with them.

 

[Dead_Chivalry]

Gave my wife my ipv4 and she hardly uses it goes almost a week or two weeks before changing the batteries. It had to 25 R in it. One of the batteries was discharged all the way down to .7 .... battery is definitely junk. How can this be possible

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[freemind]

Just out of curiosity, are you all talking about the IPV4 Or the IPV4S?

I have been thinking about buying the 4S, but not if there are these problems with THIS model.

 

[Dead_Chivalry]

Ipv4

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[Dead_Chivalry]

The battery's were married and put in the same slot each time.

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[Dead_Chivalry]

If I were to go back in time I'd get the snow wolf 200w.

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[freemind]

The battery's were married and put in the same slot each time.

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You are not supposed to put them in the same slot each time. You are supposed to swap the slot back and forth each time.

 

[Dead_Chivalry]

You are not supposed to put them in the same slot each time. You are supposed to swap the slot back and forth each time.

Never heard that before. My understanding was that because one side discharged more to keep the same battery in that side.

What you're suggesting would be hard to keep track of.

Most people label that batteries one and two and always put them in the same slot.

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[smacksy]

Ive been using the ipv4 approximately 3 months.

Have always used sony vtc5 & imren batteries.

I ususally leave the ipv on throughout the night.

Woke today, grabbed the ipv4 and dropped it immediatly due to fire hot the ipv felt. I mean HOT. I have had 18650 mods heat up, but nothing like this. The ipv wouldnt work until it cooled down. Wouldnt fire, wouldnt turn on, only worked to drain the battery.

After cool, I replaced the battery with two fresh charged batteries. The ipv turns on, fires, but continues to drain the batteries into the mod itself. After a minute or two it is back to fire hot again.

Additionally, I now notice that a small red light is continuously lit up when the batteties are in the unit, which from my understanding only lights up if you are charging your batteries inside the ipv, as this light should only shine if I am charging it, which I havr never done. Ive always charged my batteries seperatly.

If you ask me, I think Ive figure out why the company that makes the IPV (Pioneer 4 You) is rumored to have stopped production of all vaping products. Although helpful, there is a lot of unforseen danger associated with them.

Out if curiosity do you have the charging board still in it? Because of fears of it shorting and causing a fire I pulled mine in both of my IPV4's
Had them for about 4 mos or so..no batt problems at all..been vaping the fabulous Crown subtanks on both of them at 65-70w, and batts are still lasting about two days..maybe the charging board in yours is close to completely shorting out giving you a warning to remove it...just a thought


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[freemind]

Never heard that before. My understanding was that because one side discharged more to keep the same battery in that side.

What you're suggesting would be hard to keep track of.

Most people label that batteries one and two and always put them in the same slot.

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Well, every since the idea of marrying batteries have been discussed, I've never heard of putting battery one in the same side slot every time. It's always been discussed to swap sides with each battery change to stop from building a memory in the batteries and shortening battery life.

It has been noted to use the same (married) batteries in the same mod however.

 

[Dead_Chivalry]

This is exactly what happened to mine.


https://m.reddit.com/r/electronic_cigarette/comments/395rni/ipv4_battery_issue_question/

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[NemesisVaper]

Never heard that before. My understanding was that because one side discharged more to keep the same battery in that side.

What you're suggesting would be hard to keep track of.

Most people label that batteries one and two and always put them in the same slot.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

Because a series config tends to out strain on one cell more than the other, as you say, the idea of labeling cells is to alternate their position rather than keep it the same. This way, on one charge cell A takes a heavier beating and on the next, cell B takes more punishment. This evens out wear on cells. The unevenness can potentially cause one cell to (in worst case) go south. If a cell goes nuts in a series config, it's likely to take the other cell with it as they're directly connected to each other and the runaway cell will dump into the more healthy one. Labeling cells is exactly what this is intended to help prevent.

If you have a lot of mods, this can be hard to keep track of. As with everything, use best practice. If you can't recall where they should go it's not the end of the world. As long as they're alternated more often than not you're OK. Also a good idea every now and again to check cell voltage with a meter when you take them out before charging. Any significant variation between the two cells voltage may indicate an issue.

To make it easier to remember, I don't bother with labels. I use a set in my Sigelei until the battery meter reads 60%. I'll then open it up and switch the battery's positions. I'll charge them at 20%. It's not as precise as alternating each charge, but it's almost the same.

 

[Dead_Chivalry]

I'll try to do that from now on. I'm just nervous even using my ipv4 anymore. .75 is insane for it to dicharge too. I think it's fried

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[Dead_Chivalry]

Weird thing is the other cell is fine. If you watch the video in the thread I posted same thing happened to that guy. It looks like the device can even catch on fire. Too bad it's been 90 days and my warranty is void.

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[Slurp812]

Assuming no shorts or other electrical weirdness, both batteries will have the same current through them in use. But no 2 batteries are exactly the same. So one will always run a little lower than the other.

 

[-=Rob=-]

The way I rotate my batteries is when I take them out to charge them the right one goes in the left charger slot, the left one goes in the right slot. Then after charging I store them in the case in that order and put them in the mod in that order next time. This makes it easy to rotate left to right and right to left each time I use them.


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[NemesisVaper]

I've seen cases if a few mods Iver discharging cells when bit used. The Snow wolf has been known to do this as well. We're lucky to have such a robust IMR/INR chemistry type, I'd hate to see what could happen to an ICR discharged to such a level.

Definitely recycle the ultra low voltage cell. You can re use the good cell in a mech or single cell device if it is acting normally. Definitely wouldn't pair it up with another cell, but I don't think you were going g to any way just mentioning it to be on the safe side.

It could possibly be the charging boardboard. I know a little about balance charging lipos. In that case the balance charger is actually able to draw from higher charged cells to the point they're all at the same voltage before charging all cells to 4.2V. Perhaps this is how the balance charging in the IPV4 works too. Don't really know.

 

[Dead_Chivalry]

Out if curiosity do you have the charging board still in it? Because of fears of it shorting and causing a fire I pulled mine in both of my IPV4's
Had them for about 4 mos or so..no batt problems at all..been vaping the fabulous Crown subtanks on both of them at 65-70w, and batts are still lasting about two days..maybe the charging board in yours is close to completely shorting out giving you a warning to remove it...just a thought


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I just took out the charging board after I had another cell discharge all the way down to .8
2 battery's this thing has destroyed now. Unacceptable!

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