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Starting a lawsuit against the FDA

Drone

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Member For 4 Years
Seems a bit premature @j1969n . I think you will need to wait until there is passed regulation before you can challenge it in the courts. Right now there is proposed legislation, but not passed legislation. Nothing to sue yet.

Regarding states though, that is another story. If you wanted to challenge state laws that have passed already you certainly could. That might be a better target until the FDA regs are passed and we see what the final regs are.
 

Saddletramp1200

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In Texas, What you got in those bottles? Moonshine? No, Vegetable Glycerin, What you use it for. Making Do Nuts. Oh, carry on. :cool:
 

j1969n

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Seems a bit premature @j1969n . I think you will need to wait until there is passed regulation before you can challenge it in the courts. Right now there is proposed legislation, but not passed legislation. Nothing to sue yet.

Regarding states though, that is another story. If you wanted to challenge state laws that have passed already you certainly could. That might be a better target until the FDA regs are passed and we see what the final regs are.
Thank you for the enlightenment. I needed to hear that as you could probably deduct from my OP that I have absolutely no fucking clue, thanks again.
 

Giraut

Gold Contributor
Member For 4 Years
Outlaw vaping? Why not, I mean prohibition worked out so well for the U.S.
Let's face it, our government knows what's best for us!
I'm sure if they back off they will still find a way to tax us into submission!

Prohibition-style "vape-easies" and "juice-running" are exactly what's gonna happen when our corrupt powers-that-be enact tough anti-vaping laws (notice that I say "when", not "if"). And I for one look forward to profiting immensely from the situation. My stash of nic is large and getting larger by the day :)

You can't fight a corrupt government legally. Just route around it.
 

Steamin Demon

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Prohibition-style "vape-easies" and "juice-running" are exactly what's gonna happen when our corrupt powers-that-be enact tough anti-vaping laws (notice that I say "when", not "if"). And I for one look forward to profiting immensely from the situation. My stash of nic is large and getting larger by the day :)

You can't fight a corrupt government legally. Just route around it.
I was thinking the same exact thing, but you had the balls to say it! I'm afraid they will leave us no choice. We are hard core DIY vapers and were gonna get our vape on no matter what. The MIB will never force me to smoke cigarettes...never I tell you. The new age of bootleggers?
 

Steamin Demon

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I've never given this a thought before but... what was the market for bulk liquid nicotine prior to vaping? Was there any?

I guess the patch and gum mfgs needed it, but consumer purchasing? Hmmm, random thoughts.
Good question. But what would the consumer demand be for nicotine before vaping? I never really thought of it like that.
 

delabs

Member For 4 Years
I wonder if there are any lawyers out there who vape that would be willing to step up to the plate? Even some pro bono just to support a cause. Wonder if any NIC companies would jump in to help out? Just a thought.


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j1969n

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I wonder if there are any lawyers out there who vape that would be willing to step up to the plate? Even some pro bono just to support a cause. Wonder if any NIC companies would jump in to help out? Just a thought.


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I have no problem with helping foot the bill as long as our community would chip in as a whole. It would probably only be a few dollars each from the massive pool of vapers that we are at this point. We will be on the hook for the additional cost that could be mitagated if we don't just have one or two voices trying to get the FDA to listen to reason, have a solid legal team to point out that they are actually going to hand the biggest nrt industry to the parties we are trying to get away from in the first place. We will be subject to the heafty increase of the prices of the gear and things that need to be had to keep doing what we enjoy. Once the FDA grabs our hips, and when they start pushing what they want to push in our backsides I don't think that we are going to like it one little bit.
 

Giraut

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[...]Wonder if any NIC companies would jump in to help out? Just a thought.[...]

Not likely. They're probably waiting for the nic prohibition era to kick in to make out like a bandit, like I am :)
 

SpaceOctopus

The Octopus of Space
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Now if only we could find some ridiculously rich backers with bottomless pockets..... because they are a rogue governmental organization running on funds from our own pockets & while they originally were established to protect consumers, now they only exist to rake in money from lobbyists, tobacco companies & other big businesses while crushing the little guys & creating an even more dangerous environment of false security & where they approve only products they've been paid to approve & spread propaganda and lies easily on the countries dime. I think it's disgusting they are getting away with this shit & honestly, I think they need to be shut down. They have too much power & ability & control & they haven't deserved it in over half a century, quite literally. There's even a Monsanto lawyer on the board of the FDA....if that's not enough to make people not trust them, I'm not sure what is. Of course, besides what they are doing to us vapers. They're fighting a war against people who don't want to kill themselves anymore & are doing something about it, which they enjoy & make them feel better. How is it possible they can get away with such a crime against humanity? I honestly & sincerely hope that they all die in a horrific fire & are peed upon by rabid dogs. Very slowly. Harsh? Maybe. Maybe they deserve it, too...... yeah I'd do it if I was rich. In a heartbeat. They need to be sued, desperately.
 

j1969n

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Not likely. They're probably waiting for the nic prohibition era to kick in to make out like a bandit, like I am :)
Well I am sure that I don't want to go to prison for having bulk nicotine. I just don't think that when asked "What are you
There's even a Monsanto lawyer on the board of the FDA....
Funny you said that, I lived in the town that took Monsanto to court and about half of the population of Anniston got from several thousand dollars to some getting a quarter million or more depending on if it was land contamination or health issues (mostly cancers and birth defects), the ones who made bank was a lawyer named Mr.Stewart. Most people that were in that suit are still pissed off because he controls the funds and will not open the books. Back to the point, what would gained by the FDA to have someone on the board that has been found guilty of poisoning a town now called the most polluted city in America?
 

PickNic Basket

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A lawsuit against the FDA wold be premature at this point. There have been no regulations set, and as such, no grounds for a suit. Once the regulations are announced, depending on what they are, you will see a number of suits filed.

The better focus right now would be on state regulations being passed quickly. The states also know that the FDA regulations are coming, and are doing all they can as fast as they can to cash in before the federal regulations limit them. Indiana and Arkansas has already passed draconian regulations, and Washington has proposed some. North Carolina and other states have started levying taxes and requiring licensing for even out-of-state vendors shipping online sales into the state. It will likely continue to be a free-for-all until the FDA regs come down..
 

SpaceOctopus

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Well I am sure that I don't want to go to prison for having bulk nicotine. I just don't think that when asked "What are you

Funny you said that, I lived in the town that took Monsanto to court and about half of the population of Anniston got from several thousand dollars to some getting a quarter million or more depending on if it was land contamination or health issues (mostly cancers and birth defects), the ones who made bank was a lawyer named Mr.Stewart. Most people that were in that suit are still pissed off because he controls the funds and will not open the books. Back to the point, what would gained by the FDA to have someone on the board that has been found guilty of poisoning a town now called the most polluted city in America?


It's not exactly what the FDA would gain by doing this that would make it happen. It's what Monsanto gets from the deal. I'd imagine that it helps them in many different ways. I'm sure whomever hired him likely gets paid a lot of dough under the table. I know the entire FDA is corrupt, so I wouldn't put it past them. Regardless of whether or not the suit was won against them does not make it easy to do so. I find that entire point rather irrelevant personally just because it has nothing to do with the FDA or whether or not a Monsanto lawyer being on the FDA is bad. Monsanto gets away with so much it is rather ridiculous & scary. There are many reasons that would benefit both parties to have a lawyer that works for Monsanto on board there. I am not in on it, so I can't exactly tell you what they are specifically.
 

Saddletramp1200

Diamond Contributor
Member For 4 Years
A lawsuit against the FDA wold be premature at this point. There have been no regulations set, and as such, no grounds for a suit. Once the regulations are announced, depending on what they are, you will see a number of suits filed.

The better focus right now would be on state regulations being passed quickly. The states also know that the FDA regulations are coming, and are doing all they can as fast as they can to cash in before the federal regulations limit them. Indiana and Arkansas has already passed draconian regulations, and Washington has proposed some. North Carolina and other states have started levying taxes and requiring licensing for even out-of-state vendors shipping online sales into the state. It will likely continue to be a free-for-all until the FDA regs come down..
I respectfully dis agree. A Motion for Unsubstanted Bias of a state entity is Not a Law, Rule, but an Idea. A Blatant attempt to secure revenue. (I don't practice law, so I shut my mouth). :cool:
 

j1969n

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I respectfully dis agree. A Motion for Unsubstanted Bias of a state entity is Not a Law, Rule, but an Idea. A Blatant attempt to secure revenue. (I don't practice law, so I shut my mouth). :cool:
I can't imagine that within the vaping populous that not one would not be aware of what is or is not possible on this very site would not chime in on the matter.
 

MySaladDays

Member For 4 Years
A lawsuit against the FDA wold be premature at this point. There have been no regulations set, and as such, no grounds for a suit. Once the regulations are announced, depending on what they are, you will see a number of suits filed.

The better focus right now would be on state regulations being passed quickly. The states also know that the FDA regulations are coming, and are doing all they can as fast as they can to cash in before the federal regulations limit them. Indiana and Arkansas has already passed draconian regulations, and Washington has proposed some. North Carolina and other states have started levying taxes and requiring licensing for even out-of-state vendors shipping online sales into the state. It will likely continue to be a free-for-all until the FDA regs come down..

You are correct.

To my mind, by the time the FDA starts regulating, there won't be much for them left to do, as it will have already occurred at the local levels. I suspect the FDA's purport will just be packaging, labelling, and warning labels etc.

The real damage will already have been done at the local levels by then,, as they are being done right NOW. As you said, the states need that MSA money, and it never really occurred to me that there wouldn't be taxes. I mean, I would like to think otherwise, but I live in reality.

The local bans (age requirements, banning vaping in certain locations, etc.) are what have been the most damaging and will continue.

Politicians can talk all they want out of both sides of their mouth. Truth is, they are not going to turn down the tax $$$.
What some people don't realize is that they take it from one place and put it in another. Those of you who live in states who lower income tax will see a direct mirror image of other taxes going up, like sales taxes, taxes on gasoline, etc.
This is how they lie to you and make you think your tax burden is being lightened.

Sales taxes are the most regressive, too, and hurt working and poor people the most, while lower income taxes only really help the wealthy and Big business.

I pay taxes on food !!! at the grocery store. This really hurts poorer and working people who have 3 kids, for instance.

Some people seem to believe in the talking points of some of these poltiicians and never bother to "look behind the curtain" at how they are being affected otherwise. The states that are having the worst vaping laws right now (ARKANSAS, INDIANA, North Carolina) are all seriously Red states.

Just telling ya'll not to fall for the talking points which they grab onto and mouth and which they latch onto just to ding the other party. Whether it be Dems or Repub. (no difference to me though anyway) LOL

I really hate being "used" by politicians anyway. As a matter of fact, when they use me to repeat their (lying ) talking points, I detest them even more.
 

MySaladDays

Member For 4 Years
Indiana and Arkansas has already passed draconian regulations, and Washington has proposed some. North Carolina and other states have started levying taxes and requiring licensing for even out-of-state vendors shipping online sales into the state. It will likely continue to be a free-for-all until the FDA regs come down..

With the exception of Washington in your example, all the worst ones so far are RED states.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_states_and_blue_states

It's really bad when you have the wrong target in your cross hairs. (from a purely survival aspect!)

In this case, everyone has for some reason been focussed on the FDA........wrong target. By time they come around, everything will be "done". IMHO. Everything will be tied up into neat little bows by your locals and states.
 

j1969n

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I don't think one of us is so ignorant of the fact that the tax monies that the government is dipping because of the fact that vaping HAS helped so many people drop cigarettes. So in order for the money that has and continues to drop they (government) have to figure out how to get that money back. They did, let the FDA control the industry. FDA decided that it would be best to revert back to the 2007 era of only cig-a-likes. A two fold stick, the 6 figure application fee (not truly known) that the agency is going to receive regardless if they allow the product to be sold. Then the fact that once they wipe out the free for all of mods available, it is more than likely that many vapers will return to cigarette's as the vaping products that are currently owned by BT and sold by ther subsidiaries that puts the small businesses out. Another point, with BT operating a subsidiary that has no responsibility for making payments to the MSA is what BT needs, now that they have our cash on vaping they will be pushing the vaping industry to save the money for their investors instead of giving it to the MSA.
 

Whiskey

Diamond Contributor
Member For 4 Years
Prohibition-style "vape-easies" and "juice-running" are exactly what's gonna happen when our corrupt powers-that-be enact tough anti-vaping laws (notice that I say "when", not "if"). And I for one look forward to profiting immensely from the situation. My stash of nic is large and getting larger by the day :)

You can't fight a corrupt government legally. Just route around it.
psssssssssst, got some nic I can buy?? Can you front me about 500ml?????
tumblr_mp6hxk2ADo1qj5t08o1_250_zps6224e08d.gif
 

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