Have you seen the claims of a manufacturer called 'Efan"?

[conanthewarrior]

Hi people. I have been speaking to an actually nice chinese bloke, called Ethan, who has batteries and was asking ME for some reason, what would help to increase his sales of batteries.

He told me his target audience is the UK and USA, so I explained to him get proof of his claims of 40AMP constant and 60 AMP pulse, or change it to the REAL output. We had a long chat, and I explained to him we would much prefer a manufacturer that is truthful and can trust, than one that makes outlandish claims.

I explained to him the reason they are not selling well, is because of the claims. I told him to re wrap them, with the real information.

He then went on to inform me his boss told him they are really 40 AMP batteries, which is obviously impossible.

I try to be nice to people, so said you need to get some real test results proving they can produce that, or no respected shop or vaper will touch them. If he was truthful, and put say 20 AMPS on the battery, or what they really are, they would actually sell as we know they are trustworthy, telling the truth.

I do not believe the guy I was speaking to actually run the business, but I did tell him to try get his bosses to change to the genuine output. He said the reason for such claims is because of competition, over rating their batteries, so I guess this must be the same, they think 'well efest sells OK at 35Amp and are not, why do we not claim 40Amps and sell more'.

I explained how dangerous it could be, and his boss really needs to change it to what It really is, then they actually stand a chance in the battery world.

They also do a smart charger, that I can not actually recommend, but it is an inteli charger with LCD display.

This is their first battery. I think if they made genuine claims, and made the chargers well, they could actually do well.

I just wanted to get feedback from other vapers, would you buy from a Chinese manufacturer who actually told the truth?

I think getting feedback is essential, as I actually want to help the guy as he is so polite. Just making claims of 40Amp constant and 60 amp pulse is ludicrous, and dangerous.

 

[conanthewarrior]

I forgot to add, he thought just a video review was enough to sell the products. I explained no, people want real proof or the real rating on the battery, or your company will fail.

 

[NemesisVaper]

I forgot to add, he thought just a video review was enough to sell the products. I explained no, people want real proof or the real rating on the battery, or your company will fail.

It's all over YouTube mate. They have two batteries. One with 40A rating and one with 25A.

The 40A has been proven to be a Samsung 30Q. The 30Q is a 15A! Where did the extra 25A come from?

Nobody is going to buy from them unless they're stupid.

 

[conanthewarrior]

It's all over YouTube mate. They have two batteries. One with 40A rating and one with 25A.

The 40A has been proven to be a Samsung 30Q. The 30Q is a 15A! Where did the extra 25A come from?

Nobody is going to buy from them unless they're stupid.

Thank you. I was not aware of that. That is dangerously stupid. I also now know that the chinese appear friendly in conversation, but are downright liars. I spent a good while trying to help the man with his business telling him to give the real rating on the wrapper, he told me they was made by themselves at a factory and are not re wraps.

I thought It was odd when he would not sell me 2 or 3 to test, only 20 batteries minimum.

 

[Haadkoe]

Thank you. I was not aware of that. That is dangerously stupid. I also now know that the chinese appear friendly in conversation, but are downright liars. I spent a good while trying to help the man with his business telling him to give the real rating on the wrapper, he told me they was made by themselves at a factory and are not re wraps.

I thought It was odd when he would not sell me 2 or 3 to test, only 20 batteries minimum.

Let's not disparage an entire nation of people due to the unethical business practices of a few. UK and US based businesses would happily lie to your face to get their hands on your money if there weren't any criminal or civil reprocussions.

But yeah, you're catching on, Chinese sourced batteries simply cannot be trusted at this point.

 

[NemesisVaper]

Due to the Chinese not needing to adhere to many concepts of the West like trademark infringement, copyright etc some companies can and will rip off western ideas and also other Chinese based suppliers.

There are good Chinese companies. I really like Innokin and Sigelei. They've been nothing but straight down the line and ethical all the way. Brilliant.

Plenty if stories of people going to Chinese manufacturers with an idea only to find they've stolen the plans and are making it for themselves. Take the Mutation X. The only genuine is the V1.after that, the designer was pushed out of the deal and the manufacturing company made the subsequent revisions. Basically stealing.

Haadoke said it well. There are naturally good people and there are people who would chance their luck. The threat of punishment of some sort keeps people on the straight and narrow. Some would never stray, others would stray often without it.

 

[conanthewarrior]

I should make myself more clear. I am not trying to say that every Chinese person is a barefaced liar, as that would be extremely wrong of me. It does seem they make inflated claims on batteries though, and it now makes me want to see the graph results of the Efe's I am using even more. (These do not get pushed above 15 amps so I feel safe).

They seemed so honest, and polite, I knew 40 amps was impossible and told them so, put the real rating on the battery and much more will sell.

I am actually speaking to Ethan from Efan now, at first he said how dare you and when I showed him the evidence he acted like he did not know. Thing is, I realised his name is Ethan, the company is called Efan-sounds the same. Coincidence? I hope it is and he is not a bare faced liar, and has been lied to by his boss, and is genuinely shocked they are not what they claim to be.

I asked him how he will feel when a vaper uses the battery at 40 amps and ends up with severe burns or dead. There has been no reply to that one.

But, like people have said, there are good chinese companies. All my mods are sigelei. I have one coming tommorow for my fiancee, as the 30 watt broke. I was very unlucky, as I know most people with the mini have no problems. I decided to buy the 50 as it had a bit more power as she was interested in RDA's and such, but will be starting using it at 11-15 watts to quit smoking with a nautilus mini.

I have not tried innokin, but I do hear good things.

I never knew that about the mutation X. I have the V4, owning a clone makes me feel less bad now knowing that they essentially all are lol.

 

[conanthewarrior]

Well, I can not believe it. He has removed the 40 amp rated battery from his facebook. Maybe he was innocent.

 

[Jon@LiionWholesale]

Ratings are open to interpretation, there's no standard for batteries as to what to rate them at. One company might run a battery at 40A once and decide the battery didn't blow up, so they're a 40A battery. One company might run a hundred of the same battery at 20A for 500 full cycles and decide that the battery life goes down a bit after 400 cycles and they really want 500 cycles so they change it to 15A. That's what we're dealing with here.

The big manufacturers are pretty consistent, and conservative, in how they rate batteries. Chinese companies are all over the map and usually on the risky side.

I don't think of them as lying, just different levels of risk in their ratings.

 

[conanthewarrior]

Ratings are open to interpretation, there's no standard for batteries as to what to rate them at. One company might run a battery at 40A once and decide the battery didn't blow up, so they're a 40A battery. One company might run a hundred of the same battery at 20A for 500 full cycles and decide that the battery life goes down a bit after 400 cycles and they really want 500 cycles so they change it to 15A. That's what we're dealing with here.

The big manufacturers are pretty consistent, and conservative, in how they rate batteries. Chinese companies are all over the map and usually on the risky side.

I don't think of them as lying, just different levels of risk in their ratings.

Ahhh. This opens up something much different. I will still rather deal with the bigger companies in future. I only own the Efests as I was tempted, I do use them but not in high power situations, regulated mod about 10 amps max or so.

I did test them at first up to 30 amps for a fair time, they still work fine, although I do really want to see some real test results on them, as I am expecting about 20 amps, but if you said their standards are different 35A, does it make them 35A batteries? How can we test what they really are?

 

[NemesisVaper]

I should make myself more clear. I am not trying to say that every Chinese person is a barefaced liar, as that would be extremely wrong of me. It does seem they make inflated claims on batteries though, and it now makes me want to see the graph results of the Efe's I am using even more. (These do not get pushed above 15 amps so I feel safe).

They seemed so honest, and polite, I knew 40 amps was impossible and told them so, put the real rating on the battery and much more will sell.

I am actually speaking to Ethan from Efan now, at first he said how dare you and when I showed him the evidence he acted like he did not know. Thing is, I realised his name is Ethan, the company is called Efan-sounds the same. Coincidence? I hope it is and he is not a bare faced liar, and has been lied to by his boss, and is genuinely shocked they are not what they claim to be.

I asked him how he will feel when a vaper uses the battery at 40 amps and ends up with severe burns or dead. There has been no reply to that one.

But, like people have said, there are good chinese companies. All my mods are sigelei. I have one coming tommorow for my fiancee, as the 30 watt broke. I was very unlucky, as I know most people with the mini have no problems. I decided to buy the 50 as it had a bit more power as she was interested in RDA's and such, but will be starting using it at 11-15 watts to quit smoking with a nautilus mini.

I have not tried innokin, but I do hear good things.

I never knew that about the mutation X. I have the V4, owning a clone makes me feel less bad now knowing that they essentially all are lol.

I understand. Never thought you were being racist mate, I know you better than that pal.

 

[NemesisVaper]

Ratings are open to interpretation, there's no standard for batteries as to what to rate them at. One company might run a battery at 40A once and decide the battery didn't blow up, so they're a 40A battery. One company might run a hundred of the same battery at 20A for 500 full cycles and decide that the battery life goes down a bit after 400 cycles and they really want 500 cycles so they change it to 15A. That's what we're dealing with here.

The big manufacturers are pretty consistent, and conservative, in how they rate batteries. Chinese companies are all over the map and usually on the risky side.

I don't think of them as lying, just different levels of risk in their ratings.

I know what you mean and you're right.

I'd like to see a 40A discharge on a 30Q from 4.2 to 2.5V as I'm very sceptical that the cell wouldn't be permanently damaged by it. I've seen HG2 that were discharged at 30A and permanently lost a chunk of their capacity just from one cycle.

I guess it comes down to ethics. Sometimes there are products that have a certain rating or spec and it can be relatively safe to run them higher, with certain risks. My Diesel car is remapped from 140bhp to 185bhp. It's the same engine that's sold as 165bhp (identical with no mods) in higher spec cars like mine, so there's room to push it a bit, plus some extra for good measure. CPUs are the same. You can have a 2ghz and a 2.4ghz cpu that were cut from the same silicone right next to each other and if there's a slight issue with one, or demand is greater for the slower chip, they'll assign it a clock speed to suit.

It just shocks me that they'd remove all and any safety margin from a product and then pish it so much harder. Approximately 267% if it's original amp limit is like... Wow!

I'll stick to buying OEM cells I think, from trusted vendors like you and SR Vapes in the UK.

Are you going to be doing more content for your blog Jon? That single article about efest is looking pretty lonely on its own. I'd like to see your take on the new 3000mAh high drain from LG and Samsung. The efest article was very well done.

 

[Jon@LiionWholesale]

I know what you mean and you're right.

I'd like to see a 40A discharge on a 30Q from 4.2 to 2.5V as I'm very sceptical that the cell wouldn't be permanently damaged by it. I've seen HG2 that were discharged at 30A and permanently lost a chunk of their capacity just from one cycle.

I guess it comes down to ethics. Sometimes there are products that have a certain rating or spec and it can be relatively safe to run them higher, with certain risks. My Diesel car is remapped from 140bhp to 185bhp. It's the same engine that's sold as 165bhp (identical with no mods) in higher spec cars like mine, so there's room to push it a bit, plus some extra for good measure. CPUs are the same. You can have a 2ghz and a 2.4ghz cpu that were cut from the same silicone right next to each other and if there's a slight issue with one, or demand is greater for the slower chip, they'll assign it a clock speed to suit.

It just shocks me that they'd remove all and any safety margin from a product and then pish it so much harder. Approximately 267% if it's original amp limit is like... Wow!

I'll stick to buying OEM cells I think, from trusted vendors like you and SR Vapes in the UK.

Are you going to be doing more content for your blog Jon? That single article about efest is looking pretty lonely on its own. I'd like to see your take on the new 3000mAh high drain from LG and Samsung. The efest article was very well done.

Thanks, yes I completely agree. There's no way a 30Q can handle 40A without damage to the cell, but at the same time I'm not surprised that it made it through without immediate danger.

Yes we have a whole bunch of really good articles/tests that are probably 80% done, it's frustrating for me too that performing the tests and writing up a report with clear graphs takes so long but soon will be releasing some. Part of the issue is we struggled with the site showing the graphs well so trying to set up a separate blog that will work better but of course that takes setup time. I may just go ahead and publish some of what we have soon so they don't become out of date.

 

[Haadkoe]

Efests... although I do really want to see some real test results on them, as I am expecting about 20 amps, but if you said their standards are different 35A, does it make them 35A batteries? How can we test what they really are?

http://vapingunderground.com/threads/got-efests-new-2900mah-35a-actually-good.114854/

 

[NemesisVaper]

Thanks, yes I completely agree. There's no way a 30Q can handle 40A without damage to the cell, but at the same time I'm not surprised that it made it through without immediate danger.

Yes we have a whole bunch of really good articles/tests that are probably 80% done, it's frustrating for me too that performing the tests and writing up a report with clear graphs takes so long but soon will be releasing some. Part of the issue is we struggled with the site showing the graphs well so trying to set up a separate blog that will work better but of course that takes setup time. I may just go ahead and publish some of what we have soon so they don't become out of date.

Don't feel like you have to rush content. I'm sure it's hard writing articles and running a business at the same time. I sometimes forget that. Put them out when you feel they're ready.

 

[conanthewarrior]

http://vapingunderground.com/threads/got-efests-new-2900mah-35a-actually-good.114854/

Yes, It was me who made that thread lol

 

[Haadkoe]

Yes, and you should read my last response.

 

[conanthewarrior]

I know what you mean and you're right.

I'd like to see a 40A discharge on a 30Q from 4.2 to 2.5V as I'm very sceptical that the cell wouldn't be permanently damaged by it. I've seen HG2 that were discharged at 30A and permanently lost a chunk of their capacity just from one cycle.

I guess it comes down to ethics. Sometimes there are products that have a certain rating or spec and it can be relatively safe to run them higher, with certain risks. My Diesel car is remapped from 140bhp to 185bhp. It's the same engine that's sold as 165bhp (identical with no mods) in higher spec cars like mine, so there's room to push it a bit, plus some extra for good measure. CPUs are the same. You can have a 2ghz and a 2.4ghz cpu that were cut from the same silicone right next to each other and if there's a slight issue with one, or demand is greater for the slower chip, they'll assign it a clock speed to suit.

It just shocks me that they'd remove all and any safety margin from a product and then pish it so much harder. Approximately 267% if it's original amp limit is like... Wow!

I'll stick to buying OEM cells I think, from trusted vendors like you and SR Vapes in the UK.

Are you going to be doing more content for your blog Jon? That single article about efest is looking pretty lonely on its own. I'd like to see your take on the new 3000mAh high drain from LG and Samsung. The efest article was very well done.

Thank you for introducing me to SR vapes BTW, the only thing is they do not carry many cells do they?

 

[conanthewarrior]

Sorry, I am a bit confused with the brain damage. I see your message, then jon saying there was a defective batch, and I am a bit confused. Were your readings from the 'good' ones, or the defective? If its the good ones, it shows the power of the mind when It really wants to believe. Back to OEM cells for me.

 

[Jon@LiionWholesale]

the results in those tests he linked were very different than the ones I got. My test results looked near identical to the HG2. I tested 3 different cells from 3 different cartons

 

[conanthewarrior]

the results in those tests he linked were very different than the ones I got. My test results looked near identical to the HG2. I tested 3 different cells from 3 different cartons

Ahh. I think they may be lying then, and it IS a rewrapped HG2. I do not mind using them if they are HG2 batteries that couldnt hold 3000MAH, only 2900, but I won't be buying any more. Learnt my lesson now, I was just dreaming I guess like all vapers do, and where I am newer with a few problems fell for it a bit more. OEM all the way now. I even have an orignal LG HG2 to compare it too.

I just wanted to check, the HG2 is actually 20 amp isnt it? as I am using it up to 20, not often but it has been pushed to that.

 

[Jon@LiionWholesale]

Yeah HG2 is 20A. Remember though those test results and the ones I've tested are both the 2800mAh, not the 2900mAh. Will be getting 2900mAh's in probably a week from today.

 

[conanthewarrior]

Yeah HG2 is 20A. Remember though those test results and the ones I've tested are both the 2800mAh, not the 2900mAh. Will be getting 2900mAh's in probably a week from today.

Ahh, It is the 2900MAH that I own I really want to see. Fingers crossed for a 25 amp battery! if it turns out true I willl jump for joy lol. They haven't shown any reduction from that 30 amp test I did, so hope they are nearer to what they claim, even though I know it is near impossible, a boy can dream .

 

[conanthewarrior]

WIll you be testing the 2900MAH when you get them in? As I am very interested what they really are, I understand I was probably lied to, but they promised an increase of performance over the older 2800, but they still are actually 2800, they just put 2900 to distinguish them from the old batteries.

 

[conanthewarrior]

Yes, and you should read my last response.

thanks man, I just did. Thing is the batteriesI really want to know about are the brand new 2900MAH they have released, not the 2800MAH. The results were for the 2800MAH, jon will be getting the new ones I have in stock in about a week. Until then they are being used gently in a regulated mod, although I did test them to 30 amps to see if the could handle it, they did with no excess heat or sign of venting and I was testing for a good ten minutes on/off for 7 seconds.

 

[Jon@LiionWholesale]

Yes I'll run some testing on them.

Not sure what you mean about they're still 2800....they're telling me they're 2900mAh.

 

[conanthewarrior]

Yes I'll run some testing on them.

Not sure what you mean about they're still 2800....they're telling me they're 2900mAh.

Ahh, they told me they are still 2800 MAH but they just put the 2900MAH to distinguish them from the old 2800, I sense these may not be as good as I hoped now..... I hope that was a chinese to english mis translation and not a lie

 

[NemesisVaper]

Thank you for introducing me to SR vapes BTW, the only thing is they do not carry many cells do they?

Their selection is small but they're the only cells you'll ever need.

The newer 20A 3000mah HG2 is good but for 500mah, probably not worth worrying about too much. The best answer to needing more capacity is to carry more cells. I've got room for eight in the front pocket of my bag and just grab two from there to carry around. All are in good quality cases.

I'm much happier seeing Vape shops selling one or two good batteries than loads with some very marginal cells mixed in to confuse people. If I were a retailer I'd stick with two cells, 25R and HE4. Lots of places only really stock efest and other brands because either people demand them or they really do buy in to their marketing. After all the big OEMs don't market their cells for Vape related use at all.

 

[Haadkoe]