Opinions on new Regulations...

[stevegmu]

No opinion, regulations wont mean anything IMO. Things may become harder and/or more expensive to source, but most people are pretty resourceful. Good thing with all of this is that I look forward to seeing less neckbearding vapers in public, vaping away like they are sucking for dear life on asthma inhalers.

I think most won't even notice a difference once the federal regulations are passed...

 

[NGAHaze]

How much does the US spend on health care for the poor, disabled, illegals and elderly? Medicaid and Medicare cost $billions...

Your point being what? Not trying to start an argument, I'm just not certain what you are attempting to convey here.

 

[stevegmu]

Your point being what? Not trying to start an argument, I'm just not certain what you are attempting to convey here.

I take it you didn't read the post I was replying to, or understand the context....

 

[RobbieR]

How much does the US spend on health care for the poor, disabled, illegals and elderly? Medicaid and Medicare cost $billions...

I am betting it is a boat load of money, but the US Government does not pay the bill every time EVERY American gets a cold, a scraped knee, or Lung Cancer. In countries with Universal Health Care the government foots the bill every time, for every person.

 

[stevegmu]

I am betting it is a boat load of money, but the US Government does not pay the bill every time EVERY American gets a cold, a scraped knee, or Lung Cancer. In countries with Universal Health Care the government foots the bill every time, for every person.

Pretty sure the US government- the taxpayers- spend more on healthcare per capita than any developed nation...

 

[RobbieR]

Pretty sure the US government- the taxpayers- spend more on healthcare per capita than any developed nation...

I just looked it up and according to this link http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox...health_care_than_the_canadian_government.html you are correct. The US does spend more money per person than Canada does, but somehow that huge expenditure only provides healthcare to a small percentage of is citizens. Canada spends less per person and provides healthcare for every citizen.

 

[stevegmu]

I just looked it up and according to this link http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox...health_care_than_the_canadian_government.html you are correct. The US does spend more money per person than Canada does, but somehow that huge expenditure only provides healthcare to a small percentage of is citizens. Canada spends less per person and provides healthcare for every citizen.

Too much money and resources often lead to extreme waste...

 

[NGAHaze]

I take it you didn't read the post I was replying to, or understand the context....

Never mind ... obviously you prefer to insult and breed dissent rather than engage in any meaningful conversation.

I understood the context of the previous post just fine ... your response however was rather ambiguous but don't strain yourself, I'm no longer interested in anything you have to say.

 

[stevegmu]

Never mind ... obviously you prefer to insult and breed dissent rather than engage in any meaningful conversation.

I understood the context of the previous post just fine ... your response however was rather ambiguous but don't strain yourself, I'm no longer interested in anything you have to say.

I take it you still didn't read, not comprehend the post I was replying to...

 

[Time]

Too much money and resources often lead to extreme waste...

Which makes your point moot. @RobbieR point is valid.

 

[stevegmu]

Which makes your point moot. @RobbieR point is valid.

No one was talking with you, you stalker. Go back to fondling horses, or your mother's basement...

 

[NGAHaze]

I take it you still didn't read, not comprehend the post I was replying to...

You only elaborated on your point in later posts.I did assume that's what you were trying to say but as initially written, one could surmise several possibilities. Your point now being clear, does not however, invalidate the post you were responding to IMO which is why I asked for clarification in the first place. That your first impulse is to throw an insult tells me all I need to know about you so I'll just retract my original inquiry and you can carry on as you see fit.

 

[stevegmu]

You only elaborated on your point in later posts.I did assume that's what you were trying to say but as initially written, one could surmise several possibilities. Your point now being clear, does not however, invalidate the post you were responding to IMO which is why I asked for clarification in the first place. That your first impulse is to throw an insult tells me all I need to know about you so I'll just retract my original inquiry and you can carry on as you see fit.

This board seems to be full of juvenile morons, who continually stalk me when I am trying to have a discussion...

 

[Time]

No one was talking with you, you stalker. Go back to fondling horses, or your mother's basement...

LOL. You make your own point moot, and then you want to take your ball and go home when your called on it. Smooth.

 

[NGAHaze]

This board seems to be full of juvenile morons...

Let me put in terms you are more likely to understand. You're just a prick and I have no interest in getting into a pissing contest with a prick.

 

[stevegmu]

Let me put in terms you are more likely to understand. You're just a prick and I have no interest in getting into a pissing contest with a prick.

Odd, you are the one who started with the childish insults...

 

[RobbieR]

@stevegmu The UK Government funded vaping research and came up with this now famous study https://www.gov.uk/government/news/...armful-than-tobacco-estimates-landmark-review
Please note the link is gov.uk

Now the UK Government is urging British smokers to Vape instead of smoke cigarettes, see this link http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/hea...rged-to-start-vaping-by-health-officials.html
The British Government is embracing vaping as a quit smoking tool and believe it can save 75,000 British lives a year.

Here you have two Governments of First World G7 Countries, The US wants to Tax and Ban certain vaping products and the British are encouraging its citizens that smoke to start vaping Why do you think that is? I think its because the British know it will save lives AND save money on Healthcare.

I just hope Canada looks to the UK for an example on what to do about vaping regulations.

 

[stevegmu]

@stevegmu The UK Government funded vaping research and came up with this now famous study https://www.gov.uk/government/news/...armful-than-tobacco-estimates-landmark-review
Please note the link is gov.uk

Now the UK Government is urging British smokers to Vape instead of smoke cigarettes, see this link http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/11810284/British-smokers-urged-to-start-vaping-by-health-officials.html
The British Government is embracing vaping as a quit smoking tool and believe it can save 75,000 British lives a year.

Here you have two Governments of First World G7 Countries, The US wants to Tax and Ban certain vaping products and the British are encouraging its citizens that smoke to start vaping Why do you think that is? I think its because the British know it will save lives AND save money on Healthcare.

I just hope Canada looks to the UK for an example on what to do about vaping regulations.

I haven't heard anything about federal bans or taxation; just speculation...
Isn't the UK going to treat e-nic as if it is a medical product? That would basically limit vaping to disposable cigalikes, wouldn't it?

 

[RobbieR]

I haven't heard anything about federal bans or taxation; just speculation...

Didn't the FDA just submit its "E-Cigarette" Regulations to the White House for review a couple weeks ago? Its my understanding the FDA is ruling that all e-cigarette products made after 2007 will need FDA Approval for it to be sold in the United States. Isn't that the whole point of this thread or am I wrong?

 

[stevegmu]

Didn't the FDA just submit its "E-Cigarette" Regulations to the White House for review a couple weeks ago? Its my understanding the FDA is ruling that all e-cigarette products made after 2007 will need FDA Approval for it to be sold in the United States. Isn't that the whole point of this thread or am I wrong?

The companies who sell them will have 24 months to submit their products for approval.... Short of those selling dangerous mods or 'clones', I imagine professional companies won't have any problems...

 

[rades]

Didn't the FDA just submit its "E-Cigarette" Regulations to the White House for review a couple weeks ago? Its my understanding the FDA is ruling that all e-cigarette products made after 2007 will need FDA Approval for it to be sold in the United States. Isn't that the whole point of this thread or am I wrong?

It is... We just don't know what will come of it. Ban it? Tax it? Only have certain companies selling supplies? No one really knows. What I think will happen is a tax, warning labels, etc. Maybe I'm being hopeful but I don't think it will be too too crazy.


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[rades]

All I know is I'm stocking up on mods, tanks, attys, etc. just to be careful.


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[rades]

When it nears I'll probably do the same with juice. I use mechs and theoretically they should last me for life, no circuitry; metal tube and a battery.


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[RobbieR]

The companies who sell them will have 24 months to submit their products for approval.... Short of those selling dangerous mods or 'clones', I imagine professional companies won't have any problems...

Yes, but isn't the approval process expensive? I heard FDA Approval will cost $2Million to $10million per item. That will kill most of the juice makers, and the smaller mod /atty companies. I can't imagine any juice maker being able to afford FDA Approval for every flavor of juice they manufacture / sell.

 

[RobbieR]

Edit: Double post

 

[stevegmu]

Yes, but isn't the approval process expensive? I heard FDA Approval will cost $2Million to $10million per item. That will kill most of the juice makers, and the smaller mod /atty companies. I can't imagine any juice maker being able to afford FDA Approval for every flavor of juice they manufacture / sell.

That's what the vendors say, who just happen to want scared vapers to keep on stockpiling and fear buying...

 

[rades]

I don't think it's anywhere near that much per item. I've heard $1,000-$5,000 per item.


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[rades]

But that could also mean each juice flavor with each nicotine strength. So...

Vanilla peach 0mg=$1,000
Vanilla peach 3mg=$1,000
Vanilla peach 6mg=$1,000

And so on and so forth.


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[RobbieR]

I don't think it's anywhere near that much per item. I've heard $1,000-$5,000 per item.
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That sounds more reasonable but I can't imagine the FDA will look at anything for $1000.00 bucks.

This article in the Wall Street Journal is saying its 2 - 10 million $ Per Item. http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10130211234592774869404581088451777513530

 

[Time]

Here is another one to read: http://tobaccoanalysis.blogspot.com/2015/11/fda-is-out-of-its-mind-deeming.html

I tend to give more weight to the opinion of a guy with 25 years of experience in the field of tobacco control then I do to a dude on the internet with a czech vape club avatar. Just sayin'.

 

[rades]

Wow, I wish I didn't read those.

Very upsetting.


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[RobbieR]

Here is another one to read: http://tobaccoanalysis.blogspot.com/2015/11/fda-is-out-of-its-mind-deeming.html

I tend to give more weight to the opinion of a guy with 25 years of experience in the field of tobacco control then I do to a dude on the internet with a czech vape club avatar. Just sayin'.

Thanks for the link! That helps explain the FDA ruling. After reading the requirements for FDA Approval I can see how it will cost 2 to 10 million $ per item, but I can't imagine ANY of the current vaping products being able to meet the FDA Requirements. Reading that list crazy!! Its completely INSANE that cigarettes do not have to meet the same requirements.

 

[Time]

I don't know how it will turn out but it doesn't look good. The thing about that link that got my attention was this part; "Products that are sold to wholesalers and retailers (i.e., not offered for sale directly to consumers) will not be required to submit a PMTA ".

Since we are not wholesalers or retailers, I'm wondering if we will have access to DIY flavors and nic.

 

[stevegmu]

Thanks for the link! That helps explain the FDA ruling. After reading the requirements for FDA Approval I can see how it will cost 2 to 10 million $ per item, but I can't imagine ANY of the current vaping products being able to meet the FDA Requirements. Reading that list crazy!! Its completely INSANE that cigarettes do not have to meet the same requirements.

Those aren't the requirements; just someone's assessment of them; that someone being a crusader in the anti smoking moment...

 

[RobbieR]

Those aren't the requirements; just someone's assessment of them; that someone being a crusader in the anti smoking moment...

If you say "those aren't the requirements" then what are the requirements?

 

[stevegmu]

If you say "those aren't the requirements" then what are the requirements?

Just like the author in the link- who is an anti smoking advocate, no one knows, as they haven't been published yet...

 

[HazyShades]

If you say "those aren't the requirements" then what are the requirements?

Here Robbie, this are the guidelines for the vape industry. It sort of summarizes for us
what the final reg will be
http://tveca.com/tveca_docs/industry_guide_draft_tveca.pdf?mc_cid=ca32e06b7c&mc_eid=43d99185c5