Internal Lipo Question

[pescadore]

I received my SMY SDNA 200 and it contains an Internal 1600 3S for a total of 4800 mah. When I charged my battery I had the Device Monitor on with the Escribe and noticed that Cell #1 would not take a full charge like cell 2 and cell 3. This limited the watt hours significantly giving a little under 14 instead of over 17 wh. I arranged to send the mod back where I bought it from but for some wild reason this morning while charging cell #1 charge had been greater than past charges. It charged today to 4.12 volts while the other 2 cells charged to 4.2. My question would be, do you think that the weak cell on #1 will possibly eventually catch up on charging or am I asking for trouble keeping a pack with a weak cell. It will now give me more watt hours than the hcigar VT200 which was what I was replacing it with but I just don't want a problem child. I love the size of the SDNA 200 and it functions well. Please give me some opinions !!!!

 

[Neunerball]

While you monitor your battery with Escribe, does it charge the battery as well? The cell #1 could show a discharge, while you're monitoring. A better way to monitor the cells, would be a balance charger, like I use for my LiPos utilized in my R/C Helicopters. This charger has this monitor feature, so I can hook it up to my PC. It also shows the internal resistance of the LiPo.

A good LiPo pack can have a difference of 0.01 to 0.03 V, without resulting in damage, on the long run. The problem arises when a cell is overly discharged, due to lack of balance, unless the mod is actually monitoring every single cell (which I doubt). The "damage" can only be seen over time. However, a LiPo pack does need a "break in" time, in order to reach it's full potential. The factory is using some chemical(s), in order to be able to store the new batteries for a long period of time, until it's actually being used. With a brand new pack in my R/C Helicopter, I wouldn't fly full blown 3D, but rather just slow flying, and stop flying when the pack is 50% discharged. After 8-10 charges, the pack should be broken in.

 

[pescadore]

While you monitor your battery with Escribe, does it charge the battery as well? The cell #1 could show a discharge, while you're monitoring. A better way to monitor the cells, would be a balance charger, like I use for my LiPos utilized in my R/C Helicopters. This charger has this monitor feature, so I can hook it up to my PC. It also shows the internal resistance of the LiPo.

A good LiPo pack can have a difference of 0.01 to 0.03 V, without resulting in damage, on the long run. The problem arises when a cell is overly discharged, due to lack of balance, unless the mod is actually monitoring every single cell (which I doubt). The "damage" can only be seen over time. However, a LiPo pack does need a "break in" time, in order to reach it's full potential. The factory is using some chemical(s), in order to be able to store the new batteries for a long period of time, until it's actually being used. With a brand new pack in my R/C Helicopter, I wouldn't fly full blown 3D, but rather just slow flying, and stop flying when the pack is 50% discharged. After 8-10 charges, the pack should be broken in.

Thank you so much. Yes the Escribe shows each battery charging and cell #1 has always been lower in volts than the other two but with each charge seems to be getting closer and closer. I am glad to find out the information about the break in time because I love this mod and it is everything I wanted but was just afraid of the difference in voltage of cell #1 from the other two. There has never been a discharge problem with any of the cells so I am hoping for the best. I am definitely not giving up on this one. Thanks for giving me hope.

 

[Neunerball]

Thank you so much. Yes the Escribe shows each battery charging and cell #1 has always been lower in volts than the other two but with each charge seems to be getting closer and closer. I am glad to find out the information about the break in time because I love this mod and it is everything I wanted but was just afraid of the difference in voltage of cell #1 from the other two. There has never been a discharge problem with any of the cells so I am hoping for the best. I am definitely not giving up on this one. Thanks for giving me hope.

If it hadn't been for my other hobby, I would be as concerned as you are. However, knowing LiPo packs is a major part of flying R/C Helicopters. If you want to learn more, check out http://www.rchelicopterfun.com/rc-lipo-batteries.html.

 

[fq06]

Sounds like the pack had a bunk cell to me. That happens to the best companies but they test them and they don't get out the door. The companies selling less expensive packs dont have as tight of a QC and will let a few slide out to customers that dont have balanced capacity and/or internal resistance across all cells.
Electricity will beat up on the weakest cell so that cell#1 will always come up short. Whether it just has less capacity or the IR is higher than the others.

See if they will swap the pack for you instead of the entire unit... or pick up a couple replacement packs from hobbyking for under $20.

I doubt the charging system in the mod is the most accurate at balancing as well. Even with a weak cell, a good balance charge system will work that weak one up to the same 4.2v as the others. If the mods balance system can never get it back up to 4.2v it will just get worse and worse because the current demand will bully that one cell and be bros with the others.

 

[Neunerball]

I'm looking forward to getting my other DNA200 mod (Whiteout DNA), that will have a LiPo. I will probably charge it with my balance charger though (iCharger 208b). I might have to get a different charging board, or solder different connections (XT60) on it.

 

[fq06]

I have wanted to vape with lipo for a few years but I just picked up a cheap Reuleaux rx200 so I guess I will be using 18650's for a while longer... or at least till I need another shiny toy

Glad to see mods moving towards lipo though.

 

[Neunerball]

I have wanted to vape with lipo for a few years but I just picked up a cheap Reuleaux rx200 so I guess I will be using 18650's for a while longer... or at least till I need another shiny toy

Glad to see mods moving towards lipo though.

The LiPo has the advantage of being lighter, and faster charging than our 18650s. In addition, due to the big R/C market, there's a huge variety, and constant improvements to the packs.

 

[pescadore]

I'm looking forward to getting my other DNA200 mod (Whiteout DNA), that will have a LiPo. I will probably charge it with my balance charger though (iCharger 208b). I might have to get a different charging board, or solder different connections (XT60) on it.

The Whiteout looks really nice ... The Hcigar VT200 has a 1300 mah and I saw that Whiteout was working on one for the Whiteout. I love the DNA200 with all the monitoring ability and preference changing that you can do with it. I am selling all my other mods and after Christmas will be 100% DNA200 products.

 

[fq06]

True, you can probably get a full charge in under 10 min with a good sub 2Ah pack with a good charger.

 

[Neunerball]

The Whiteout looks really nice ... The Hcigar VT200 has a 1300 mah and I saw that Whiteout was working on one for the Whiteout. I love the DNA200 with all the monitoring ability and preference changing that you can do with it. I am selling all my other mods and after Christmas will be 100% DNA200 products.

I currently have the Reuleaux DNA200, and I'm loving it. Somewhere on CMT's website, I read that there's a 1300 mAh LiPo that would fit into the Whiteout. However, I might modify the mod to hold an even larger pack. I'm thinking of doing it somewhat like it's done in my R/C Helicopters, with just a strap and Velcro.

True, you can probably get a full charge in under 10 min with a good sub 2Ah pack with a good charger.

I'm able to safely balance charge six 2200 mAh packs within 25-30 Minutes.

 

[pescadore]

I currently have the Reuleaux DNA200, and I'm loving it. Somewhere on CMT's website, I read that there's a 1300 mAh LiPo that would fit into the Whiteout. However, I might modify the mod to hold an even larger pack. I'm thinking of doing it somewhat like it's done in my R/C Helicopters, with just a strap and Velcro.

I'm able to safely balance charge six 2200 mAh packs within 25-30 Minutes.

Curious on how much battery life you get out of the Reuleaux. I am getting one for Christmas.

 

[f1r3b1rd]

I currently have the Reuleaux DNA200, and I'm loving it. Somewhere on CMT's website, I read that there's a 1300 mAh LiPo that would fit into the Whiteout. However, I might modify the mod to hold an even larger pack. I'm thinking of doing it somewhat like it's done in my R/C Helicopters, with just a strap and Velcro.

I'm able to safely balance charge six 2200 mAh packs within 25-30 Minutes.

They put the 1300 add in, on hold a few months back, for obvious reasons. Sucks because that and the dual 18650 battery sled option were major factors for me signing on.

 

[Neunerball]

Curious on how much battery life you get out of the Reuleaux. I am getting one for Christmas.

I'm using the VCT5, due to not going to the full 200W. I used the Escribe's Watt-Hour Calculator, in order to have it calculate the Wh. According to it, it's set to 28.86 Wh.

 

[Neunerball]

They put the 1300 add in, on hold a few months back, for obvious reasons. Sucks because that and the dual 18650 battery sled option were major factors for me signing on.

As mentioned, they referenced a 1300 mAh battery in one of their articles. Although, I couldn't find the article, being a customer at Hobby King, it was in my history. The following is the battery they were talking about, fitting as a replacement.
https://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewitem.asp?idproduct=72451

 

[f1r3b1rd]

As mentioned, they referenced a 1300 mAh battery in one of their articles. Although, I couldn't find the article, being a customer at Hobby King, it was in my history. The following is the battery they were talking about, fitting as a replacement.
https://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewitem.asp?idproduct=72451

Roger, that does look familiar....
From their website- so perhaps they will still do am expansion kit? dont know, I'm still butthurt over the whole fiasco.

Product Description
The Cloudmaker Whiteout DNA, the second configuration of Cloudmaker Tech’s modular, future-proof, user-customizable personal vaporizer. This pre-order is for the Whiteout DNA unit, which comes fully-assembled & QC-tested with Evolv’s cutting-edge new customizable DNA200 Temperature Control chipset. The DNA200 can push up to 200W using a 1100mAh 3S LiPo battery configuration, and we are working on offering a 1300mAh expansion kit! The genius of the Whiteout is that you can interchange and customize every part of it, from changing the color and material of your device’s panels, to upgrading/swapping your chip itself without soldering or special skills. This future-proof flexibility is thanks to our modular design & specially-developed Build Kits, which are based on community requests and released regularly to expand the possible factory-supported configurations of the Whiteout.

 

[Neunerball]

Roger, that does look familiar....
From their website- so perhaps they will still do am expansion kit? dont know, I'm still butthurt over the whole fiasco.

Product Description
The Cloudmaker Whiteout DNA, the second configuration of Cloudmaker Tech’s modular, future-proof, user-customizable personal vaporizer. This pre-order is for the Whiteout DNA unit, which comes fully-assembled & QC-tested with Evolv’s cutting-edge new customizable DNA200 Temperature Control chipset. The DNA200 can push up to 200W using a 1100mAh 3S LiPo battery configuration, and we are working on offering a 1300mAh expansion kit! The genius of the Whiteout is that you can interchange and customize every part of it, from changing the color and material of your device’s panels, to upgrading/swapping your chip itself without soldering or special skills. This future-proof flexibility is thanks to our modular design & specially-developed Build Kits, which are based on community requests and released regularly to expand the possible factory-supported configurations of the Whiteout.

I posted the wrong LiPo that CMT referenced. It does fit in the mod without expansion kit! http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewitem.asp?idproduct=21338

 

[f1r3b1rd]

I posted the wrong LiPo that CMT referenced. It does fit in the mod without expansion kit! http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewitem.asp?idproduct=21338

No shit! Hmmm gonna have to get one of those... ẃe should be golden by new year or shortly after.
- not sure if you saw or not, but after the smog deal I went to a slightly dark place over this. Don't know that I wanna hijack the op's battery thread with a mod discussion. then again I dont know crap about forum etiquette either.
http://vapingunderground.com/threads/cloudmaker-whiteout-dna-and-sx-issues.168131/

 

[Neunerball]

Roger, that does look familiar....
From their website- so perhaps they will still do am expansion kit? dont know, I'm still butthurt over the whole fiasco.

Product Description
The Cloudmaker Whiteout DNA, the second configuration of Cloudmaker Tech’s modular, future-proof, user-customizable personal vaporizer. This pre-order is for the Whiteout DNA unit, which comes fully-assembled & QC-tested with Evolv’s cutting-edge new customizable DNA200 Temperature Control chipset. The DNA200 can push up to 200W using a 1100mAh 3S LiPo battery configuration, and we are working on offering a 1300mAh expansion kit! The genius of the Whiteout is that you can interchange and customize every part of it, from changing the color and material of your device’s panels, to upgrading/swapping your chip itself without soldering or special skills. This future-proof flexibility is thanks to our modular design & specially-developed Build Kits, which are based on community requests and released regularly to expand the possible factory-supported configurations of the Whiteout.

Here's the reference from CMT
https://cloudmakertech.com/learn/lipo-vs-18650/

 

[f1r3b1rd]

Here's the reference from CMT
https://cloudmakertech.com/learn/lipo-vs-18650/

Roger Roger!!!

 

[pescadore]

Sounds like the pack had a bunk cell to me. That happens to the best companies but they test them and they don't get out the door. The companies selling less expensive packs dont have as tight of a QC and will let a few slide out to customers that dont have balanced capacity and/or internal resistance across all cells.
Electricity will beat up on the weakest cell so that cell#1 will always come up short. Whether it just has less capacity or the IR is higher than the others.

See if they will swap the pack for you instead of the entire unit... or pick up a couple replacement packs from hobbyking for under $20.

I doubt the charging system in the mod is the most accurate at balancing as well. Even with a weak cell, a good balance charge system will work that weak one up to the same 4.2v as the others. If the mods balance system can never get it back up to 4.2v it will just get worse and worse because the current demand will bully that one cell and be bros with the others.

Lipo pack charges to 100% now !!!

 

[Neunerball]

Lipo pack charges to 100% now !!!

Good to hear.

 

[Neunerball]

Curious on how much battery life you get out of the Reuleaux. I am getting one for Christmas.

I'm using the VCT5, due to not going to the full 200W. I used the Escribe's Watt-Hour Calculator, in order to have it calculate the Wh. According to it, it's set to 28.86 Wh.

Depending on whether I use my TFV4 tanks a lot, it comes down to 1.5-2 days of usage.

 

[f1r3b1rd]

Lipo pack charges to 100% now !!!

Killer dude!!!

 

[pescadore]

Depending on whether I use my TFV4 tanks a lot, it comes down to 1.5-2 days of usage.

Very nice !! I have one coming for Christmas. I ordered some LG HG2's for it and it will all get opened on Christmas Day !!! Very excited about it. My SMY is set to 17.76 watt hours so more can't hurt !!

 

[Neunerball]

Very nice !! I have one coming for Christmas. I ordered some LG HG2's for it and it will all get opened on Christmas Day !!! Very excited about it. My SMY is set to 17.76 watt hours so more can't hurt !!

With the LGs, you'll get even more than I do with my VTCs. I'm thinking of getting some LGs for mine, in the near future.