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Yihi SX450 Q Class

Fictitious Character

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I was contemplating buying a SX ML but I was kind of holding off until the new SX350J V2 board was more readily available so I could pick up a dual battery version. Then I saw this Q class.

I hear the expected release is March or April so I might just hold off on the ML and pick up the SX450.


Thoughts?
 

martinelias

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Looks pretty sweet i wondr how it will compare to the dna200 board...

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Zamazam

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I was contemplating buying a SX ML but I was kind of holding off until the new SX350J V2 board was more readily available so I could pick up a dual battery version. Then I saw this Q class.

I hear the expected release is March or April so I might just hold off on the ML and pick up the SX450.


Thoughts?
Looks promising. I love my SXmini M class, this will be great if it does hit a true 200 watts. Gonna need VTC4's in this puppy for sure.
 

centella4u

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Drooling as of right now, lol. Can't wait to get my hand on it.


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sandduner8

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Is it possible to get a true 200 watts with only two 18650 ?
 

f1r3b1rd

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Well, at 7.4V(3.7+3.7) and 27 with a 0.27ohm build you get 200w

I would put that in the category of bad idea.

That said, its till fine looking!
 

ChrisL

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Price point is going to be north of $250.00....Guess ill wait for the clone:oops:.
 

BadLuckAndTrouble

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Seriously in the 300 range?

I guess that makes sense aeeing as their single batt mods were going for 200.
 

f1r3b1rd

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My guess would be 220-25O. It's he same tech as the single battery mod, just puts the battleaxe mode obsolete.
I can't help but think that the 150w max was fine and have credibility issues on the 200w max. But, we'll see.
 

Fictitious Character

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My guess would be 220-25O. It's he same tech as the single battery mod, just puts the battleaxe mode obsolete.
I can't help but think that the 150w max was fine and have credibility issues on the 200w max. But, we'll see.
I would agree with this estimate. If they were smart they would lower the price of the ML and get the Q closer to the 200 area. Lots of DNA200's out there for under 2 bills. If they do not botch the price I got this one on my buy list so far.

I am skeptical of the true 200w as well, but they do their boards a bit different and it should be a 9.5v boost. At that rate a 0.4 coil at 9v and 22.5a gets it to the 200w mark. Besides the real reality of it is I am like a lot of people and would not be buying this to vape at 200w. I stay under 100w

It kind of has an ipv4 look to it in someways, but the yihi quality is great so I expect it will be as well for the Q class.
 

f1r3b1rd

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I would agree with this estimate. If they were smart they would lower the price of the ML and get the Q closer to the 200 area. Lots of DNA200's out there for under 2 bills. If they do not botch the price I got this one on my buy list so far.

I am skeptical of the true 200w as well, but they do their boards a bit different and it should be a 9.5v boost. At that rate a 0.4 coil at 9v and 22.5a gets it to the 200w mark. Besides the real reality of it is I am like a lot of people and would not be buying this to vape at 200w. I stay under 100w

It kind of has an ipv4 look to it in someways, but the yihi quality is great so I expect it will be as well for the Q class.
True, I know I only vapid at 200w once, just to say I did. My average has always been between 50-80w. Anything more was just not enjoyable for me. My issue with the 200w claim, is that if It can't do the full Monty on two, batteries safely, I would then have the question of how much work and how safe is it that they only did it to answer competition. that thought would cause me to almost lose a hair of respect for the company ice always seen as sharing the throne with evolv. the 350line has always been just as accurate and held in just as high a regard to me as the DNA. I would just hate to see them fall short to save time when a 150w on two batteries done right would be seen as almost superior to the DNA in alot of ways. a board like that would probably outsell the DNA also.
granted a lot of that is premature so I'm just speculating my ass off,
 

Zamazam

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You can get a true 200W from 7.4 volts, with a good boost circuit and/or logic chip set. The problem is that the tech is not cheap, I used to build custom stereo amps as a hobby and some of the components were outrageously pricey. Because they were made in small amounts, specifically catering to the Stereo heads like me. China can definitely do the boost to 200 watts, but the problem is a lot of the tech is patented (yea like they really care of course) and the components available now are pricey and scarce (read milspec and such).
 

Fictitious Character

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True, I know I only vapid at 200w once, just to say I did. My average has always been between 50-80w. Anything more was just not enjoyable for me. My issue with the 200w claim, is that if It can't do the full Monty on two, batteries safely, I would then have the question of how much work and how safe is it that they only did it to answer competition. that thought would cause me to almost lose a hair of respect for the company ice always seen as sharing the throne with evolv. the 350line has always been just as accurate and held in just as high a regard to me as the DNA. I would just hate to see them fall short to save time when a 150w on two batteries done right would be seen as almost superior to the DNA in alot of ways. a board like that would probably outsell the DNA also.
granted a lot of that is premature so I'm just speculating my ass off,
I agree and get what you are saying. To date they and Evolv both have their haters, but in the end are the contenders to hold on to the throne.

They could have played it safe and went with the dual 150w and avoided the measuring contest with Evolv all together, but if they did that they would have probably just built off the sx350j v2 board, or invented a v3 board. A v3 board would have surely pissed off their loyal customers though since the Q is following the ML so quickly.

It is all speculation on all of our parts at this point and I am excited about the Q because they are listening to the market by going with a dual batt device rather than selling the board and making you buy from a modder.
 

Fictitious Character

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You can get a true 200W from 7.4 volts, with a good boost circuit and/or logic chip set. The problem is that the tech is not cheap, I used to build custom stereo amps as a hobby and some of the components were outrageously pricey. Because they were made in small amounts, specifically catering to the Stereo heads like me. China can definitely do the boost to 200 watts, but the problem is a lot of the tech is patented (yea like they really care of course) and the components available now are pricey and scarce (read milspec and such).
I hope Yihi can find a way to do it without breaking the bank because I think a $300 price point will be a mistake. Lots of options out there for 150. and under so to come in double that will be a problem imo. Sure at 3 bills they will sell some, but not the mass produced numbers that make them successful. Of course as Firebird says it is all speculation atm.
 

f1r3b1rd

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I agree and get what you are saying. To date they and Evolv both have their haters, but in the end are the contenders to hold on to the throne.

They could have played it safe and went with the dual 150w and avoided the measuring contest with Evolv all together, but if they did that they would have probably just built off the sx350j v2 board, or invented a v3 board. A v3 board would have surely pissed off their loyal customers though since the Q is following the ML so quickly.

It is all speculation on all of our parts at this point and I am excited about the Q because they are listening to the market by going with a dual batt device rather than selling the board and making you buy from a modder.
That one thing is yihi's number one point right there!!!!
haters gonna hate. But the bottom line is they need each other to push each other through the competition. if it weren't for evolv there would be no tc. if it weren't for yihi, it wouldn't have been refined. The competition is what advances it.
But yihi has always given the customers what we asked for with the 350 line.
 

Zamazam

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That one thing is yihi's number one point right there!!!!
haters gonna hate. But the bottom line is they need each other to push each other through the competition. if it weren't for evolv there would be no tc. if it weren't for yihi, it wouldn't have been refined. The competition is what advances it.
But yihi has always given the customers what we asked for with the 350 line.
Provari!! :D YiHi will hopefully make it work and change the game up again. I hope so....
 

f1r3b1rd

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Provari!! :D YiHi will hopefully make it work and change the game up again. I hope so....
laughing-hysterically_thumb.gif
 

Fictitious Character

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That one thing is yihi's number one point right there!!!!
haters gonna hate. But the bottom line is they need each other to push each other through the competition. if it weren't for evolv there would be no tc. if it weren't for yihi, it wouldn't have been refined. The competition is what advances it.
But yihi has always given the customers what we asked for with the 350 line.
The 350 line has been great. I love my sx350 100w series box. The sx350j is a great board as I am sure the .v2 is as well. So building off their top tier board and creating the 450Q, I have high hopes.

When the S class came out I said in a thread somewhere nope a single battery device with a China board for that price no interest. But the success of that mod due to build quality and board got me to drop 2 bills multiple times on the M class and lol chomping at the bit for what they were going to do next.

A bit off topic but China is really putting the pressure on Evolv. You got Yihi with their leap frog king of the throne game they are playing with Evolv. And then there is the affordability and mass production of lesser accurate mods, but those boards are also proving to work well too.

Tough business the mod game is right now, but us consumers are swimming in options.
 

Wingsfan0310

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What it comes down to is the power supply. I don't care how good a board is, it can't make more power than the batteries can supply.

If you use 20 amp batteries the maximum output would be 8.4 x 20 =168 watts. Now that wouldn't even be possible because you will have voltage sag and losses from the board. No board is 100% efficient. Output will go down as the voltage of the batteries drops.

For 30 amp batteries maximum output would be 252 watts (8.4 x 30) with the same restrictions as above. The way I figure it to do 200 watts your 30amp batteries will have to be at a minimum of 6.87 total after taking voltage sag into account. That means what they sag down to while firing. This is with a 97% efficient board.

It can do 200 with 30 amp batteries but probably only down to around 3.7 (if not higher) resting voltage per battery. You have to take battery sag into account. The more discharged the batteries become, the more the batteries voltage will sag on firing. Boards can't manufacturer more power than the power supply (in this case the batteries) can supply. There is no magic in a special board.

Edit. All the board can do is either buck or boost voltage or current while doing the inverse to the other. One goes up the other comes down. You will also not get out what is put in because of the boards inefficiency.
 
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Fictitious Character

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What it comes down to is the power supply. I don't care how good a board is, it can't make more power than the batteries can supply.

If you use 20 amp batteries the maximum output would be 8.4 x 20 =168. Now that wouldn't even be possible because you will have voltage sag and losses from the board. No board is 100% efficient. Output will go down as the voltage of the batteries drops.

For 30 amp batteries maximum output would be 252 watts with the same restrictions as above. The way I figure it to do 200 watts your 30amp batteries will have to be at a minimum of 6.87 total after taking voltage sag into account. That means what they sag down to while firing. This is with a 97% efficient board.

It can do 200 with 30 amp batteries but probably only down to around 3.7 (if not higher) resting voltage per battery. Boards can't manufacturer more power than the power supply (in this case the batteries) can supply. There is no magic in a special board.
I agree 30a batts would/should be the way to go with this device.

This is all true, but Yihi claims their boost is 9.5v. So far Yihi has been accurate with their claims.

I don't claim to be any kind of authority on the issue but my take on it is that Evolv went with a lipo to get the 200w safely, and it seems yihi is forgoing the lipo and relying on dc-dc boost and pwm.

I am sure Busardo will get a Q class and put it on the scope and will either confirm or disprove yihi's claims. Of course those that are really interested will have to endure a overly long possibly multiple part video though lol Either way I have plans to buy this one unless they fumble with the price point, or fail to produce.
 

Wingsfan0310

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I'm not arguing with you. What I'm saying for them to take an 8.4 volt input and boost it to 9.5 it will come at the expense of current (amps).

The batteries can supply fully charged 8.4V at 30 amps. If you boost voltage you buck the current available. What I'm saying is a board can't output more power than the batteries can supply. If a board could take for example 200 watts available power and output 300 watts you would have a board that manufacturers power and Einstein would be turning over in his grave. It's a law of physics. You can't get more power out than you put in. I'm not talking about just Yihi. I'm talking about anybody. It simply isn't possible.

Edit. Laws of Thermodynamics
 
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Wingsfan0310

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How does a stun gun work then?
It steps up the voltage and steps down the current of its power source (the battery). Because it uses high voltage and very low current. The victim is only stunned but no serious or permanent damage is done to the victim.

If you're asking me if it somehow makes more total power than it's power source (battery), then the answer to that is an unequivocal no. Do you believe in a perpetual motion machine? Nothing makes more power than what is put into it. As a matter of fact there are always losses in the form of heat.
 
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Wingsfan0310

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If it did use capacitors, then it still wouldn't be using more power than put in from it's supply. They would have to be charged by the supply. I've never taken a stun gun apart (never had one for that matter). You could be right, maybe it does operate as you suggested. That would mean you could only fire it when they were charged though (a delay between stuns ;)). It was late last night when I responded and I was getting cranky:oops:. Sucks to get old, but it beats the alternative.

What I was getting at is if you have 11.1v power supply (batteries) that can supply 30amps. You could step up the voltage to 3330v while stepping down the current to .1 amps without needing capacitors (would actually be touch less taking a boards inefficiency into account).
 
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sandduner8

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Has anyone seen a place for pre order on the Q class ?


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fq06

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What?!?!? fires down to a .0001 coil? That's a 2 wrap 22g Ni coil?

Should be a nice mod, looking forward to hearing more about it.
 

Wingsfan0310

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Has anyone seen a place for pre order on the Q class ?


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I just searched and can't find anywhere. Seems like everything coming out about it is on FB (the SX Mini FB page). From what I understand they are talking March or April as a possible release.

Cheers,
Steve
 

f1r3b1rd

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Varitube tends to be there biggest USA distributor
 

Wingsfan0310

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No problem. If I see anything pertaining to a pre-order, I'll PM you. Good Luck tracking it down. Happy Hunting!

Cheers,
Steve
 

skt239

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Can someone please explain the 510 ring on it? What's the purpose?
 

Vlad1

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Just to chime in here a little bit, and to be clear most everything at this point is pure speculation about this device.

What's stated in the video is:
Maximum 200 Watt
On board Balance charger
Replaceable covers
Dual 18650
Support all TC wire (Custom TCR Adjustment)
Support .0001Ω resitance
16bit Analog to Digital Converter
Support SXI-Q & Logo Maker

So custom on board TCR adjustment for any wire type, resistance accuracy to the 4th digit, SXI-Q and Logo Maker and Maximum 200 Watt. For my speculation what does "Maximum 200 Watt" actually mean? I'm speculating they're going to allow up to 200W within the first 1 second or so of firing similar to how the ML can fire 100W within the first second. But time will tell I could be wrong.

One part that stands out to me that separates the Q series from other brands is the SXI-Q curves. I don't think this feature has been marketed very well and has somewhat gone unmentioned. In the image below at firing 200W is hit, then at 1sec it drops to about 138W, at 1.5sec drops to about 25W then back up to about 32W at 2sec then goes up to about 48W from the 2.5sec through 10sec. This or a similar curve can be done in either Temp mode or Power mode. No limitation to only being able to set a single Preheat Power setting or a set Time period as it can be adjusted on the curve to pretty much whatever one wishes every .5 second interval for up to 10 seconds. Assuming the SX450 Q will be similar to the ML in features I'm speculating again it would have Preset modes as well, Powerful, Powerful+, Soft, Eco, Standard so some could choose to just use one of those modes instead of the Q curve if they preferred. Price??? who know's, I'm hoping with all the cheap devices in the market it will force them to lower their pricing, but being known to produce exceptional top of the line products they may not.

upload_2016-1-17_23-48-3.png
 

Wingsfan0310

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Thanks for the kind words. You're welcome by the way. Always happy to help if I can.

Cheers,
Steve
 

tljenson

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I'm not arguing with you. What I'm saying for them to take an 8.4 volt input and boost it to 9.5 it will come at the expense of current (amps).

The batteries can supply fully charged 8.4V at 30 amps. If you boost voltage you buck the current available. What I'm saying is a board can't output more power than the batteries can supply. If a board could take for example 200 watts available power and output 300 watts you would have a board that manufacturers power and Einstein would be turning over in his grave. It's a law of physics. You can't get more power out than you put in. I'm not talking about just Yihi. I'm talking about anybody. It simply isn't possible.

Edit. Laws of Thermodynamics
What if the boost tech stores the power in another little battery that's used to boost it to 200 when the two 18650 hit their limit the stored energy in some kind of little battery that can hold a charge gets charged before hand using the 18650s, then releases it later in combination with the 2 18650's to reach the 200w. I'm no expert, but that is the only thing I can think of that might work? Maybe it has a little tiny lipo battery that has just enough power to bump up the two 18650s?
 

Vlad1

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What if the boost tech stores the power in another little battery that's used to boost it to 200 when the two 18650 hit their limit the stored energy in some kind of little battery that can hold a charge gets charged before hand using the 18650s, then releases it later in combination with the 2 18650's to reach the 200w. I'm no expert, but that is the only thing I can think of that might work? Maybe it has a little tiny lipo battery that has just enough power to bump up the two 18650s?

Two 18650's can achieve 200 watts without the need for external capacitors or little batteries etc.. that's been mentioned previously.

Remembering that the boards in regulated mods are voltage regulators, they manage the input / output required and the board is the load (resistance) to the batteries and the atomizer coil is the load (resistance) to the board.
And also that Power in = Power out - efficiency loss

We are limited to the board and components input current limits, if the board is poorly designed in it's ability to regulate the input current then it will burn itself up or blow fuses etc.. when it pulls more current (Amps) than it's capable of handling. And also that batteries have both continuous discharge rate (constant drain) and pulse discharge rate (momentary drain), pulse discharge rating is generally much higher than continuous discharge as most batteries can handle much higher current drain for short periods of time. A concern is generation of heat in the battery so if we're continuously pulling pulse rate discharge in a continuous manner the battery will heat up and potential fail or vent.

So if we never exceed the continuous discharge rate (cdr) of 30Amp batteries we would need the following.

I'll assume 95% efficiency of the board for this example
I'll also assume a 30A current input limit for the SX450 board but it could be higher.

In order to achieve 200 W at the output (atomizer) we would need to consume 210 W from the battery to compensate for the efficiency loss.

Power (P) = Amps (I) * Volts (V) or P=I*V

2 18650's = 8.4 V @ full charge
2 18650's = 7.4 V @ nominal charge

@7.0V
7.0V * 30A = 210W

@7.4
7.4V * 30A = 222W

@ 8.4V
8.4V * 30A = 252W

We can calculate if the board is 95% efficient and designed to limit to 30A and will never pull more than that we would need a minimum of 7V from the batteries or 3.5V for two 18650's in series to achieve 200W at the atomizer.

Now I've not mentioned battery sag in part because it depends on the battery in use, how good it is how many charge cycles it's had etc.. and is not instantaneous but it will play a role in the performance of the mod, and if the board is hard set at 30A input current limit and the batteries in use sags below 7V we would not achieve 200W. But assuming a good set of batteries with a full charge one should expect to be able to achieve 200W in Power mode but would most likely suffer in longevity of battery use at that setting. When using the device in Temp mode we would most likely extend the battery usage since we typically drop power output down drastically once the set temperature is achieved and therefore consuming much less energy.

Many that post on this topic suggest that since the DNA 200 only produces 133W from 2 18650's it's not possible to be done safely, but they fail to realize that's due to the low Input Current limits of the DNA 200 board being at 23A. That board wasn't designed for 2 x 18650's at 8.4V it was designed for a 3s Lipo at 12.6V. With the higher input voltage of 3s Lipo lower input current is capable of achieving their original designed 200W output power. But It's just not able to take advantage of the full output capacity of a 30A cdr 18650. If it were capable of taking higher input current it would not be limited to the 133W.
 
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PaulS

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Who the fuck cares if it actually reaches 200 watts. Its a YIHI chip in dual 18650 that will accept any build ( and we know a few guys here who build pretty low). If it lives up to 1/2 the hype I'm in.
 

Deucesjack

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Who the fuck cares if it actually reaches 200 watts. Its a YIHI chip in dual 18650 that will accept any build ( and we know a few guys here who build pretty low). If it lives up to 1/2 the hype I'm in.
Absolutely, I still use my M class everyday. I also have multiple DNA's but there is just something about the Yihi chip that I like better. I don't know anyone that vapes at 200w. I rarely ever even come close to 100w. Most of the time I vape between 60w-85w depending on the tank, coil, and juice.

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SmilinVapor

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SX Mini Q-class at Vapenw, list 199 + 2 free batteries. Plus they have a 20% off pre-order. Total comes to about 159 for the Q and 2 batteries.
 

tljenson

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SX Mini Q-class at Vapenw, list 199 + 2 free batteries. Plus they have a 20% off pre-order. Total comes to about 159 for the Q and 2 batteries.
I can get the same deal over on Royalty Vape. Which vendor do you think is better?
 

SmilinVapor

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I have no experience with Royalty Vape, but have been very happy with vapenw. Haven't had to send anything back to check their customer service though.
 

mjag

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Vape Royalty is a solid vendor with great customer service. I had purchased 2 Mutanks from them but 1 had a defect and they corrected the problem quickly. The shipping was also real quick, really I have nothing bad to say about them.

Vapenw is also a solid vendor but I have no knowledge of there customer service as I didn't have to use it with the 1 purchase I made from them.
 

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