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DNA200 TC with SS316 Wire, Share your Experience!
- Thread starter Vapomizer
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I'm using it as I type in a TFV4. I'm using the RBA head that came with it. I built a single coil using 24ga 316L SS by UD (.44 ohms). I've been using it since Sunday and it's working great. I usually use Ni200 or Ti1, but decided to change it up. I also switched from a curve I downloaded from Steam Engine to a TCR of .00092. Really happy with the results so far. Using dual coils with SS and the curve gave me mixed results. I'm not sure if switching to a single coil or the TCR is making the difference, but I'm really happy with this current setup. I know @f1r3b1rd was basically using SS exclusively. Hopefully he will chime in.
PS I want to order some 430 SS to try in TC because it has a higher TCR. I think 316L is about as low of TCR wire that you can hope to get accurate results from. Give me a second and I'll post a chart showing different TCR's for the different TC wires we might use.
Cheers,
Steve
Edit Here's the chart. As you can see 316L is on the low side when it comes to TCR's meaning you will get the least change in resistance as temperature rises.
PS I want to order some 430 SS to try in TC because it has a higher TCR. I think 316L is about as low of TCR wire that you can hope to get accurate results from. Give me a second and I'll post a chart showing different TCR's for the different TC wires we might use.
Cheers,
Steve
Edit Here's the chart. As you can see 316L is on the low side when it comes to TCR's meaning you will get the least change in resistance as temperature rises.
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I'm still having trouble with my Uwell Crown SS 0.25 ohm coil. It won't let me fire and the screen shows " Temperature Protection". My rolls of SS316L wiring should arrrived within a day or two. I will try that.
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Vapomizer
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WOW, great detailed information and great table, i did not know that lower TCR means less resistance change with temperature rise, the idea was in the air but now the info is very solid, so you confirm that using CSV from steam engine does not perform well like others have reported, so you resorted to TCR .00092
The next logical question in this case would be, since you are using TCR with the DNA200 to get accurate TC operation for SS316, what difference does it make in using this same TCR with an RX200 a VTC Mini or other non-DNA stuff vs. using it with the DNA200? have you tried that?
Since most people rave about the DNA200 TC performance based on Ni or by downloading SE CSV files, how do you compare its TCR performance to the other previously mentioned mods/chips?
Vapomizer
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I think the problem with the Crown stock coils is that they use nonresistance-resistance-nonresistance wire, Ni legs with SS wire, the reason most stock coils do that is that they use rubber insulators on the legs, not screws or such like RBAs so they are preventing the legs from heating up by using Ni for the leg wire maybe also to prevent leg power loss as much as possible, moreover UWELL does not recommend their "SS316" coils to be used in TC mode because of this, they have an all Nickle coil heads for that purpose.
The best way to use the Crown in TC mode is to build your own coils with ALL SS316 wire either in the RBA or by re-building the stock coil, just beware that when re-building the Stock attys with all SS316 wire, you risk melting the rubber insulator at anything above 50W
Now this is the most direct and accurate answer I get from posting the samw question/problem in other thread. Thanks.
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I wish I could help you there but I don't have the other mods you are asking about. I'm using DNA200 mods these days for TC. I have a few different models I switch between.
From left to right Hotcig DX200, Hcigar VT200, and Volcano Lavabox. I also have The Reuleaux DNA200 not in this picture
Vapomizer
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You are most welcome, i faced the same exact problem with Kanger's so called SSOCC which i thought had an SS wire and could not work right in TC mode, also same problem with crown stock attys, both use the same design of nonresistance-resistance-nonresistance which confuses the TC function of any mod, i managed to re-build these with an ALL SS316 wire which worked nicely in TC, but then i faced the insulator melting problem when re-building the Stock attys.
do you have the Crown RBA? have you used it successfully? i think it is a crappy RBA, the new UWEL Rafale Vertical RBA seems to be a very good fit for the job, you can build vertical like stock, with an all SS316 or any other SS alloy and the RBA is all metal, so no rubber melting problem anymore.
lordmage
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that's why i moved away from the crown personally. i also have used the tfv4 heads with hit and miss results. the main issue is how flat the curve really is so i tend to make my own profile with the set room temp and resistance and tweak it from there. i get a good vape and that all that matters but that's using the dna200 and escribe to tweak on my rx i use wattage mode.
personally i am thinking of ordering some 317L SS in 28G or higher to wrap dual parallel builds with a 3.. ID or larger. to higher than .4 ohms. i heard that the higher ohms help its performance and most stock heads are .3 or lower.
personally i am thinking of ordering some 317L SS in 28G or higher to wrap dual parallel builds with a 3.. ID or larger. to higher than .4 ohms. i heard that the higher ohms help its performance and most stock heads are .3 or lower.
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Really amazing info, this is a paradigm shift for me in my understanding of how TC works in general and DNA200 TC capabilities in particular,
Why do you think that the steam engine CSV curves do not work well with SS? my understanding of what these curves do is that they give different resistance coefficient for different temperature levels to achieve a more accurate TC, so in theory it should work much accurately than a simple TCR, in practice this is not the case, any idea why is it so?
Another question about the mods you have, how do you like the Lavabox? i feel it is one of the best DNA200 devices around, are you having any issues with it? also any idea about Hcigar releasing a 2 18650 DNA200 mod next month? i remember i read that somewhere can you confirm?
Thanks for the great info.
Yes, I have the Crown RBA and I didn't have any luck with it either. The Rafale sounds promising, I may have to try that.
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You can get SS430 here, it's in the USA. As soon as I get around to it I'm going to order some myself because of the higher TCR value compared to 316 and 317. I really believe the Higher TCR helps when it comes to SS.
Cheers,
Steve
lordmage
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yes but not as corrosive resistant has 316L and yes your right. the early adapter forum at evolve as confirmed that. or i might get some NIFE52 when i can. Covered by reddit already https://www.reddit.com/r/electronic_cigarette/comments/3k9y0r/best_wire_for_temp_control_dna200/
I'm not sure if it's the TCR vs the curve as much as me using a single coil vs dual coil. It could be a combination of both. I should switch back to the curve to see if either I or Escribe notices a discernible difference.
As for the Hcigar VT133, it's funny you should ask. I happen to have a thread about it here. I just updated with a first look video. It's either going to be released any day now or could already be out. I originally heard by the end of this month. Here's the link if you are interested: VT133
Cheers,
Steve
I missed the part on the Lavabox. That's a tough one for me to answer. I like all 4 of my DNA200's. I think the Lavabox probably looks the coolest. I like the grip, I think it's a great idea. I would have preferred a clear screen cover as opposed to the tinted one (my old eyes prefer a brighter screen, if I was still 20 I probably wouldn't care). I know this might sound crazy but out of the 3 pictured I give an ever so slight edge to the VT200 because it's a touch thinner, no tinted screen/front, and has a bit more battery life. That being said the Reuleaux has the battery life in spades if that's what I'm looking for (I just received that one a few weeks ago though). It is thicker and heavier though. It is surprisingly small and does feel comfortable to hold, just not really pocket friendly imo. More battery life equals heavier, no free rides unfortunately.
PS I am waiting on a 2 x 18650 battery holder for the DX200 to be delivered. Will then have a dual 18650 DNA200 mod to try. The battery compartment and chip compartment on that mod come apart (2 seperate compartments) so it's easily interchangeable between the 3s Lipo and 2 x 18650 holder.
PS I am waiting on a 2 x 18650 battery holder for the DX200 to be delivered. Will then have a dual 18650 DNA200 mod to try. The battery compartment and chip compartment on that mod come apart (2 seperate compartments) so it's easily interchangeable between the 3s Lipo and 2 x 18650 holder.
I saw it for around $114 on a flash sale at gearbest that was over before I was aware of it. I've also seen it at another place for $129. It's tough to really say what the best price will be until it's out in full force. I think the list is going to be around $159
Vapomizer
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Checking Chemical composition for both SS316 and SS430
COMPOSITION Type 316 Type 316L
% %
Carbon 0.08 max. 0.03 max.
Manganese 2.00 max. 2.00 max.
Phosphorus 0.045 max. 0.045 max.
Sulfur 0.030 max. 0.03 max.
Silicon 0.75 max. 0.75 max.
Chromium 16.00 - 18.00 16.00 - 18.00
Nickel 10.00 - 14.00 10.00 - 14.00
Molybdenum 2.00 - 3.00 2.00 - 3.00
Nitrogen 0.10 max. 0.10 max
Iron Balance Balance
Melting Point 1648-1673 °C
SS430 COMPOSITION
%
Carbon 0.12 max.
Manganese 1.00 max.
Phosphorus 0.040 max.
Sulfur 0.030 max.
Silicon 1.00 max.
Chromium 16.0 - 18.0
Nickel 0.50 max.
Melting Point 1425-1510 °C
SS430 has less Nickel than SS316 and lower melting point, I wonder how come it has higher TCR when it has lower Nickel? which component is responsible for its resistance change properties? seems like the SS316 is a bit more safer due to its higher melting point?
I am not sure what conclusions to make out of these chemical properties in terms of health, safety and efficiency in TC mode?
COMPOSITION Type 316 Type 316L
% %
Carbon 0.08 max. 0.03 max.
Manganese 2.00 max. 2.00 max.
Phosphorus 0.045 max. 0.045 max.
Sulfur 0.030 max. 0.03 max.
Silicon 0.75 max. 0.75 max.
Chromium 16.00 - 18.00 16.00 - 18.00
Nickel 10.00 - 14.00 10.00 - 14.00
Molybdenum 2.00 - 3.00 2.00 - 3.00
Nitrogen 0.10 max. 0.10 max
Iron Balance Balance
Melting Point 1648-1673 °C
SS430 COMPOSITION
%
Carbon 0.12 max.
Manganese 1.00 max.
Phosphorus 0.040 max.
Sulfur 0.030 max.
Silicon 1.00 max.
Chromium 16.0 - 18.0
Nickel 0.50 max.
Melting Point 1425-1510 °C
SS430 has less Nickel than SS316 and lower melting point, I wonder how come it has higher TCR when it has lower Nickel? which component is responsible for its resistance change properties? seems like the SS316 is a bit more safer due to its higher melting point?
I am not sure what conclusions to make out of these chemical properties in terms of health, safety and efficiency in TC mode?