Coil options

[SOC]

Right. I've got 100ft each of 24 g Kanthal, 32 g Nichrome 80, and 36 g Nichrome 80.

I'm going to (finally) start building this weekend. Apart from just running various wraps of 24 g Kanthal at different diameters to screw around (and yes, I have an ohm reader so I don't do anything completely stupid), what are some good builds to try?

I've seen a few fused clapton builds, 2 x 24 g wrapped with 36 g, and something like that looks like it might be about as complicated as I need to try at first. I've watched The Art of Vaping's Fused Clapton video a few times (OK a LOT of times), as well as a few others, and it seems to be a relatively straightforward build, albeit one that will require some patience and practice.

Given my current wire supply, is there anything else recommended that I screw around with? If I think a fused clapton is doable, is there another build I should also try?

Build (or builds, in the case of dual coils) will go into either a Griffin RTA or a Mutation xS RDA, on top of either a Sigelei 200W Fuchai or an RX200.

All part of my plan to end up self-sufficient by the end of the year! I figure if I can get a handle on building coils by the time summer rolls around then I can start trying to mix my own juice.

 

[Rhett1977]

Start off with a simple Clapton coil. Get that down pat to where you can door in your sleep. Then move onto something else. Don't try making a half dozen different coils all at one time.

 

[Flightmedic76]

I agree 100% with Rhett, start with something simple just to get the basics down. I'd throw a couple 5-6 wrap 24g 3mm coils in your Mutation just to get going while you experiment. You'll feel comfortable in less time than you think. You'll definitely mess up a few, but that's all part of the fun. I always have one RDA or tank up and running so I can tinker with coils on another.

I wouldn't wait to try making your own juice if that is the direction you want to go. It can be a little intimidating at first, but you can save a TON of money, and it is much easier than you think. Like coil building, just watch some videos, and take your time. A 180ml batch might take me 10 minutes to make, and that is being meticulous using syringes. Making juice by using a scale is probably easiest, and that's my next venture.

 

[SOC]

Thanks for the advice guys! I like the idea of starting off with simple coils in the xS, it'll give me an easy build to work out wicking as well.

 

[jsr27]

Have you ever done any twisted builds? They are easy and put out pretty good flavor! My favorite twisted build is dual 2 strand twisted 26 gauge with a inner diameter of 2.4 mms. You probably need to pick up some 26 gauge kanthal because that's a good size to start with. With clapton you will need some thinner wire like 32 gauge or thinner depending on your preference. Good luck man!

 

[SOC]

. I'd throw a couple 5-6 wrap 24g 3mm coils in your Mutation just to get going while you experiment.

Worked pretty well, although I can see exactly how the Velocity-style deck in the Griffin is going to be far easier to work with. Coiling so far has been easy, but wicking is an adventure. Didn't use enough cotton on the first set of coils but it's turned out to be a weird advantage, as I can switch between flavors quicker (I've got a bunch of new stuff I'm trying).

 

[JERUS]

IMO I'm contrary to Rhett's advice, honestly a clapton and a fused clapton aren't much different as far as making them. However their performance is very noticeable. I hadn't done a fused clapton till yesterday (finally took out a drill, I just always like doing things by hand). Simple claptons don't even seem worthwhile to me, twisted performs almost as well, Chain Link (twist clockwise then fold and twist counter clockwise) is better than a clapton. Fused Clapton however is a noticeable increase in the vaping experience. It's not hard either, and no harder than a strait clapton build, you just gotta watch for the same things (too loose of wraps and backing over your wrap).

I'm no expert in complicated coils, as I said before I just did everything by hand, but I've done a dozen or so claptons and simply felt the twisted/Helix/Chain was more worthwhile, Fused clapton is a different story. It's my belief that there are a few different goals of a premium coil. First, cooling it down, strait wire coils heat up quickly and continue to heat up, you just can't take too long of a hit otherwise they overheat, twisted fixes that (helix can cool it down even more). The other element is making your coil "porous" so that it wicks juice itself, this happens in the chain link as well as claptons. A strait clapton does it ok, but a chain link does it better. Then the last is surface area, the more spread out it is the more of that wicking material is going to be directly affected, this is where the fused clapton shines. It has the elements of cooling by creating a heat sink with the clapton, it has the element of being porous but even more so than a typical clapton, and then it also simply creates more surface area in contact with the wick.

Now, again I've just recently done the fused clapton, but I've done just about every simpler build, and IMO there's a big jump in performance between those and a fused clapton. And as far as difficulty in creation, a clapton vs fused clapton there's almost no difference. So IMO just jump right to that if you're looking for a next level build. Once you talk stapled/alien/etc then it'll get a bit troublesome (alien doesn't look "hard" though I bet you end up throwing away a bunch of wire due to mistakes).

So while claptons take practice, I see no reason to not jump into fused claptons and at least then when you do find success you have a solid coil. It's not really any harder and the successes much more valuable.

 

[SOC]

honestly a clapton and a fused clapton aren't much different as far as making them.

That's what I figured, although I'm trying a short (i.e. probably not useful for a coil) strand of plain clapton just to experiment with how much tension on the overwrap, how fast is a good idea to go while wrapping, etc. That way my test segment uses less wire, although I do have a free ten feet of 24 g Kanthal from the Coil Master kit to screw around with as well.

alien doesn't look "hard" though I bet you end up throwing away a bunch of wire due to mistakes

I did see that one, and it doesn't look "hard" but it does look a lot more involved. More things to pay attention to in terms of detail.

My current problem with this endeavour is that I'm having way too much fun vaping the Mutation xS with plain simple coils!

 

[raymo2u]

I find FC's easier to make then normal Claptons when using swivels/drill, Claptons seem to break more often at the drill chuck while Im halfway done with 16" of wire, Ive never had a Fused Clapton do anything more then twist a bit.
Fused Claptons are my Go-To and the results for a newer vaper will be negligble after FC's. You have a decent set of wires for them as your outer wrap being 36g will make it so there is less ramp up time and almost 0 of a"heatsink effect". I suggest you use 2x26/36 6 Wrap/3mm ID. This in Dual Coil is a purty fine vape experience.
As long as you use the swivel method they basically wrap themselves...just keep slight tension on the spool and follow it as it goes.

 

[JERUS]

That's what I figured, although I'm trying a short (i.e. probably not useful for a coil) strand of plain clapton just to experiment with how much tension on the overwrap, how fast is a good idea to go while wrapping, etc. That way my test segment uses less wire, although I do have a free ten feet of 24 g Kanthal from the Coil Master kit to screw around with as well.



I did see that one, and it doesn't look "hard" but it does look a lot more involved. More things to pay attention to in terms of detail.

My current problem with this endeavour is that I'm having way too much fun vaping the Mutation xS with plain simple coils!

The "problem" with alien as I understand it is, screw up and there's no going back, where with standard fused claptons you can unwind that section and keep going, the alien relies on the kinks in your wrap wire and doubling back and reversing it will ruin that.

Personally I've done a couple sets of wire now with the Fused Clapon concept (just tossing it in a drawer waiting for my new shiney) didn't use a swivel or anything but a drill, just straitened the wire a bit and used my fingers to guide it, had some backing over, fixed it and kept going. The swivel+Clamp method seems like it'd be much easier, but then I'd have to find and use more tools.

 

[SOC]

Personally I've done a couple sets of wire now with the Fused Clapon concept (just tossing it in a drawer waiting for my new shiney) didn't use a swivel or anything but a drill, just straitened the wire a bit and used my fingers to guide it, had some backing over, fixed it and kept going. The swivel+Clamp method seems like it'd be much easier, but then I'd have to find and use more tools.

Same here, I'm just using a drill. Doesn't seem to be an issue apart from the fact that it kinda limits the advisable speed at which you spin the wire. Too fast and things start to swing all over the place, making wrapping a bit harder to keep tidy. Making extra wires is a solid plan, I grabbed a cheapo roll of electrical tape to keep things from coming undone, would be perfect for wrapping up the ends of extra wires.

I will say this. Everything looks a lot easier in nice close-up video tutorials. You don't have any idea just how small scale this stuff is until you get working!

 

[JERUS]

Same here, I'm just using a drill. Doesn't seem to be an issue apart from the fact that it kinda limits the advisable speed at which you spin the wire. Too fast and things start to swing all over the place, making wrapping a bit harder to keep tidy. Making extra wires is a solid plan, I grabbed a cheapo roll of electrical tape to keep things from coming undone, would be perfect for wrapping up the ends of extra wires.

I will say this. Everything looks a lot easier in nice close-up video tutorials. You don't have any idea just how small scale this stuff is until you get working!

YES, so much yes, you see it on a video and think "ok that shouldn't be hard to work with" then you get the stuff and it's like "damn this is finer than my hair!" I figure my hair is about 42g and my beards whiskers about 36g, craziness. I tried a few with the 40g today and gave up, it's just such a pain. 32g isn't bad though, and using SS as a core the ramp up isn't anything to be concerned about, now I just have to figure out how to get the resistance up a bit for dual coils. I don't want to have to go back to Kanthal if I can avoid it. We'll see if I can get a 7th wrap in my incoming Avocado.

 

[raymo2u]

YES, so much yes, you see it on a video and think "ok that shouldn't be hard to work with" then you get the stuff and it's like "damn this is finer than my hair!" I figure my hair is about 42g and my beards whiskers about 36g, craziness. I tried a few with the 40g today and gave up, it's just such a pain. 32g isn't bad though, and using SS as a core the ramp up isn't anything to be concerned about, now I just have to figure out how to get the resistance up a bit for dual coils. I don't want to have to go back to Kanthal if I can avoid it. We'll see if I can get a 7th wrap in my incoming Avocado.

You havent seen anything, well you can barely see it at all with 50g+ wires...
Heres some wire I made with 50g, 52g, and 54g N60....
2 x26K/50N60 Fused Clapton Wire:


These are Framed Fused Clapton Wires Ive made with 50g+ wires..The Core just looks chrome....The outermost wire is usually thinner then most people use already, just think how small that wire that Fuses the cores wires together is...the Macro setting doesnt even pick it up...
Core Wire is a 2x26K/54N60 Fused Clapton, Framed with 22K, Wrapped in 46N60:


Framed Fused Clapton wire with slightly bigger wires..
Core Wire is a 2x26K/52N60 Fused Clapton, Framed with 22K and Wrapped in 40N80


This is the Framed Fused Clapton shown above in my Velocity RDA:

 

[JERUS]

I'll just say I may be hitting you up , I saw in the other thread you talked about TC. Honestly not all that interested, I just like the ramp up time of SS and overall experience, once you work it in (mine has a little funky taste initially even washing/burning/torching) but once that's through it's better than Kanthal. But, I'm waiting on this Avocado, according to GeekVapes specs it's an extra mm between posts compared to the Griffin, but it says 7mm which I'm a bit curious on as my Haze I have a 7mm coil in there and I highly doubt that the velocity deck isn't going to give me more room than this haze. Anyways, I got a paypall activated and expect me to hit you up eventually once I finish playing around myself .

Curious what do you feel is the best build? Fused clapton is certainly a step up from what I've done. The chainlink was my favorite for about a week before I tried the fused clapton (asked roommate for their drill to give it a whirl).

I gave up on pure RTA's because of the "fickle" wicking, while you can get it right over time the cotton simply degrades and I just can't feel comfortable with it not leaking eventually. So for me when I want something to travel I'll grab my premade coils (TFV4 or Atlantis, yes the Atlantis is still a solid vape and as trustworthy as they come) and rock that. When i'm in my normal settings I have no problem keeping a tank vertical and the Genesis style eliminates all concerns of wicking so I like that. It's literally throw some wick in there and have at it. I've even used an entire strip of KGD and just pulled it through the wick holes on my Haze and still no dry hits, and I've just left it at the deck barely peeking through the juice holes and no issues, gotta love that breathing room. Just don't throw it in a bag and expect it not to leak.

Lastly I'll say, the Avocado looks amazing, I haven't purchased another device in over 3 months, I just haven't felt the need, all my desire have been satisfied with a MTL style build on an RBA for the TFV4 mini, a satifactory Travel companion with the TFV4 or my old Atlantis with premade coils, or my Haze Dripper for optimal (for me) flavor/experience for normal situations. My only concern is that centralized drip tip, I think the Haze had it right offsetting that to prevent spitting, I can hear the fused clapton especially but also other builds bubbling and spitting and you can even see it on the top cap, If someone made something between the two (not all that hard, just put a 22mm top cap on the Avocado with an offset drip tip) I'd simply be in heaven. If you wanted to go further I'd put a lever to close the system, maybe rotate the cap to lock it, preventing leaking in travel and just OMG, perfect. I can see it being easily done, just some company has to do it. My wish is possible!.

This turned out much longer than I anticipated, blame the ~5L of whiskey I've consumed this weekend (yeah I'm a drunk, want to fight about it!?)

 

[raymo2u]

I'll just say I may be hitting you up , I saw in the other thread you talked about TC. Honestly not all that interested, I just like the ramp up time of SS and overall experience, once you work it in (mine has a little funky taste initially even washing/burning/torching) but once that's through it's better than Kanthal. But, I'm waiting on this Avocado, according to GeekVapes specs it's an extra mm between posts compared to the Griffin, but it says 7mm which I'm a bit curious on as my Haze I have a 7mm coil in there and I highly doubt that the velocity deck isn't going to give me more room than this haze. Anyways, I got a paypall activated and expect me to hit you up eventually once I finish playing around myself .

Curious what do you feel is the best build? Fused clapton is certainly a step up from what I've done. The chainlink was my favorite for about a week before I tried the fused clapton (asked roommate for their drill to give it a whirl).

I gave up on pure RTA's because of the "fickle" wicking, while you can get it right over time the cotton simply degrades and I just can't feel comfortable with it not leaking eventually. So for me when I want something to travel I'll grab my premade coils (TFV4 or Atlantis, yes the Atlantis is still a solid vape and as trustworthy as they come) and rock that. When i'm in my normal settings I have no problem keeping a tank vertical and the Genesis style eliminates all concerns of wicking so I like that. It's literally throw some wick in there and have at it. I've even used an entire strip of KGD and just pulled it through the wick holes on my Haze and still no dry hits, and I've just left it at the deck barely peeking through the juice holes and no issues, gotta love that breathing room. Just don't throw it in a bag and expect it not to leak.

Lastly I'll say, the Avocado looks amazing, I haven't purchased another device in over 3 months, I just haven't felt the need, all my desire have been satisfied with a MTL style build on an RBA for the TFV4 mini, a satifactory Travel companion with the TFV4 or my old Atlantis with premade coils, or my Haze Dripper for optimal (for me) flavor/experience for normal situations. My only concern is that centralized drip tip, I think the Haze had it right offsetting that to prevent spitting, I can hear the fused clapton especially but also other builds bubbling and spitting and you can even see it on the top cap, If someone made something between the two (not all that hard, just put a 22mm top cap on the Avocado with an offset drip tip) I'd simply be in heaven. If you wanted to go further I'd put a lever to close the system, maybe rotate the cap to lock it, preventing leaking in travel and just OMG, perfect. I can see it being easily done, just some company has to do it. My wish is possible!.

This turned out much longer than I anticipated, blame the ~5L of whiskey I've consumed this weekend (yeah I'm a drunk, want to fight about it!?)

If your capable then a Staple or Alien is a improvement over a Fused Clapton but the difference is negligible to most people. I dont know what you mean by TC, I like it for the cold weather when Im out but its usually not my style, well it wasnt something I was all about until I found the Hohm Wrecker G2 and used it with my Kanthal Builds in TC...this is something thats going to blow up very soon Im sure.
Im also picking up the Avocado, I find it as a nice Modern Genny but I know that it will have difficulties keeping up with wicking for my uses. Geekvape makes really nice products and the quality shows, if you get one in your hands you can tell its money.

If you do decide to get a Griffin you will not be disappointing. The velocity RDA has one of the biggest build spaces there is and the Griffin's space is even bigger. The Haze RDA or RTA has a much smaller chamber size, you may have a single coil in it thats large but you wouldnt be able to fit 2 of the same size in it. I understand your hesitation but if your read up in the Griffin thread you will see others felt the same way until getting the Griffin and they havent had a issue or went back to they're other setups since. The wicking is pretty easy to do, you just cut the tips and place them in the juice port openings and your done, they are large and do a great job keeping up. Here's a couple builds that are Dual Coil 3.5mm+ ID and the wires on them are pretty large themselves. Most RDA's couldnt fit some of these builds but they fit in the Griffin with room left over.
@Philly boy 's Chainlink Build (4mm ID)


My Alien Build [3.5mm ID](Barely fit in the Twisted Messes RDA)


The Fused Clapton Build I first Tried in the Griffin, compared to the size of other RTA's:


There isnt much more I can say then it will give you the closest to a RDA experience if you like using larger builds that other RTAs cannot hold and it does it very well. Wicking is a breeze and there isnt a flaw in its design anywhere. I am buying 2 more and will buy the 25mm version once its released....I wish the Crius was never released because people assume this is just a bigger version of it when its not, its a different animal thats slightly similar with a few of its aesthetics, thats it.

 

[SOC]

@raymo2u I've been following your stuff in the Griffin thread, great info! I hope to have time to screw around with mine this weekend.

Yesterday I installed two 24 g kanthal 3 mm parallel coils in my Mutation xS. My wicking this time was far better. I did manage to miscalculate and have an extra wrap on one coil, but at 80 W and 0.15 ohms it hits fantastic. I wrapped my first set of basic macro coils using the Coil Master wrapper thing. Didn't bother trying to figure out the parallel coils on there but rather wrapped them by hand and it was far easier than I thought it'd be. It's all about keeping tension consistently.

I think my plan Saturday will be to build two more parallel coils for the Griffin, use those to get the wicking down, then move on and try out some fused claptons.

 

[raymo2u]

Thanks!

 

[MarkS]

Chain link in Griffin

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[raymo2u]

Chain link in Griffin

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

Still not BIG ENOUGH J/K I love the Capabilities of the Griffin...Holds bigger builds then a Twisted Messes RDA...

 

[raymo2u]

I did this for another thread to show how big you could go for the Griffin in terms of build size. I tried making a massive Cat Track coil, it wouldnt fit in the Twisted Messes RDA even just using the Negative Posts to hold the leads. Even with My Alien Build in and the Cat Track posed on top it all fit without issues, and you can see there is still a small amount of room....Pretty Insane for a RTA in 22mm!!

From the Thread "I just posed the Cat Track build on top of the Alien build Im using and there still room. Most RTAs could barely fit the Aliens...Took a pic to show the leads would fit perfect also and then pics for size referencing (couldnt find something to measure with), so I used a Quarter which the Coil takes up about half of it, now to find out what a of the radius of a Quarter is...

Keep in mind the Twisted Messes RDA it barely fit just using the Negative Posts....My Griffin is already Loaded with Aliens with 3.5mm ID and this build is on top of it..."
That one coil in the Twisted Messes:


That Coil on top of my Alien Build:


That Alien Build Barely Fits in a RDA by itself...