18650 Batteries

[Mr.GCs]

I notice that a lot of the mods use this battery. Having researched them on the net, I'm finding a variety of mAH sizes ranging from 600mAH to as high as 3600mAH.
So the questions are:
1. Does the mAH change the physical size? Diameter... Length. I know it does with Lipo's
2. What's the better brands?
3. What's the best average size to get, and where to get them?

 

[IMFire3605]

I notice that a lot of the mods use this battery. Having researched them on the net, I'm finding a variety of mAH sizes ranging from 600mAH to as high as 3600mAH.
So the questions are:
1. Does the mAH change the physical size? Diameter... Length. I know it does with Lipo's
2. What's the better brands?
3. What's the best average size to get, and where to get them?

18650 all 5 numbers have a meaning in the description, 18mm diameter (first two numbers) by 65mm in length (second two numbers) 0 = Round, so all 18650 are 18x65mm round, 18500 (18x50 round), 18490 button top (18x49mm round with a button top positive), 18350 (18x35mm round).

1) Does Mah change the size, in a sense yes, longer or wider the battery is, yes this can affect Mah and very importantly the potential of the maximum Continuous Discharge Rate (CDR) based off the battery's base mah and C (or current rating), after that, especially with 18650 sized batteries it becomes a trade off of energy density (mah) or maximum current (CDR). Can't have a 30amp CDR with High Mah, nor Keep High Mah and have a high CDR.
2) Best brands, there are especially here in the US only the Big 4 Battery Manufacturers (A Bin Cadillac manufacturers), these are LG, Sony, Samsung, and Panasonic/Sanyo (same company the last one, but generally lower CDR/High Mah), Tesla (electric car maker) we are starting to see some of their 20700 batteries hitting here and there, the 20700 is in the battery packs of their cars and power grid battery farms. Efest, IMRen, Eizfan, Vappower, Vamped, Baisen, AWT these are re-wrap companies that buy up the B and C bin discards the main Big 4 said didn't pass muster with them, re-wrap them with their own label, print the short Pulse Discharge Rate as their max rating and sell them for double the authentic A Bin is worth, so most of us just say there are 3 brands to look at in the 18650 market, LG, Samsung, Sony.
3) Best average "Size" we are dealing with the same size 18x65mm round (18650), in vaping we look at application. High Discharge Low Sub-Ohm Mech use you'd look at the LG HB Series (2, 4, and 6) at 30amp CDR and 1500mah (highest discharge CDR battery on the market, any other battery in 18650 form says higher is a lie and dangerous) as you can see a high discharge rate and low Mah. In a single battery regulated mod up to about 60watts any 20amp CDR battery will do (60watts/3.2v lowest charge/90% Mod Chipset Efficiency=20.8333amps (get familiar with this Ohm's Law Calculation (Set Watts/Lowest Battery Charge/Chipset Efficiency=Max Amps, multi-battery series mod like most are now, lowest voltage figure is voltage x number of batteries, chipset efficiency I use the 90% which about average), 75watts is 25amp CDR battery territory, 90watts is 30amp CDR battery territory. Multi-battery mod you can also use those wattage figures to calculate max watts the mod can do, 20amp CDR batteries 60watts per battery, dual battery mod 120watts (2 batteries X 60watts) triple battery mod 180watts (60watts x 3 batteries), etc.

In the USA/Canada/Mexico best battery vendors that sell authentics are
Liionwholesale.com
imrbatteries.com
illumn.com
orbtronic.com
RTDVapor.com

UK/Europe
Torchy the Battery Boy (on Amazon) and the UK Vapors Forum

Other Regions
fasttech.com (be careful here, read the customer reviews and the batteries better say "Authentic" in their title), lovingly called Slow Tech due to they can take a while to ship things, especially during Chinese New Year being Located in China.

Other information, the link in my signature has a lot of good information to peruse over, but I also break the most common batteries we use in 18650 form down by application table to help you decide what battery is best for your application.

Highest Suggested batteries
20amp 3000mah long runtime - Samsung 30Q 3000mah
20amp Median Runtim - Samsung 25R 2500mah (a workhorse all arounder)
25amp Median Runtime - Sony VTC5A 2500mah (take note of the "A" and the 2500mah, there is an older 20amp 2600mah VTC5 the VTC5A is newer and harder hitting than its older brother)
30amp Low Runtime - LG HB2, HB4, HB6 1500mah <- As stated above, these are the Kings of 18650 High Drains at the Moment, nothing on the market has a higher CDR in 18650 size.

hth.

 

[gbalkam]

As #IMFire3605 stated, we only trust 4 brands. Generally, I recommend Sony, Samsung, LG. Since all are better than Panosonic. Panosonic is still considered a trusted brand.

The main thing you look at for batteries is how you intend to use them. In a regulated mod (has protection circuits and short protection) you most likely want to go LG 3000 MaH 20A for all day vaping (longest run time) Samsung 25R might be the exception. 2500 Mah, 20A but they run cooler than any of the other brands. *only important in a rare case where your regulated mod protection fails.. maybe 1 in a million.* Main thing is these recommended brands tend to heat up and vent out if shorted vs cheaper brands that heat and blow up.

This is your basic battery information.

More advanced mods, such as mechanical mods, require more information and more consideration as to batteries.
In very basic, general terms, the CDA (amps) determines how much power you can pull from your battery. However, you also have to consider how much expertise you have in using batteries. For a new mech user, 25Rs at the go to battery. Even though a 30A would allow more power. This due to the 25rs slower chemistry, which allows more time to react if something happens. (like a hard short and vent)

I only buy batteries at my local vape shop. I know they are authentic and if i have any questions I go there for answers, so buying locally is how i support local business and "pay" for the free info.

Also do not buy rebranded (re-wrapped) batteries. Nitecore batteries are rewraps so avoid them. (Nitecore chargers are top notch and probably the most widely used charger. Xtar is better, but more expensive having features Joe Average would never use)

 

[jjdell]

Hey , im only a relatively newbie here but here is my little bits worth. I dont know what the rest of the world has seen lately but here in the Great Southern Land, Australia, this is what we have seen. Massive problems, dangerous, with Samsung batteries. Exploding and bursting into flames with all sorts of devices. Just recently an advertisement was aired on our television stations by Samsung showing us how they had supposedly rectified the problem by creating a "High Tech" battery making and testing plant. Looked so cooooool......... But just a few days after airing this here in Oz we saw on the news a "Fire, in the Samsung Battery factory caused by.... a SAMSUNG BATTERY CATCHING FIRE" After seeing that id avoid Samsung batteries like the PLAGUE!

 

[gbalkam]

Hey , im only a relatively newbie here but here is my little bits worth. I dont know what the rest of the world has seen lately but here in the Great Southern Land, Australia, this is what we have seen. Massive problems, dangerous, with Samsung batteries. Exploding and bursting into flames with all sorts of devices. Just recently an advertisement was aired on our television stations by Samsung showing us how they had supposedly rectified the problem by creating a "High Tech" battery making and testing plant. Looked so cooooool......... But just a few days after airing this here in Oz we saw on the news a "Fire, in the Samsung Battery factory caused by.... a SAMSUNG BATTERY CATCHING FIRE" After seeing that id avoid Samsung batteries like the PLAGUE!

Now you need a lot more information here. Such as why did the battery vent and burn? Did it ignite material nearby such as packing paper or plastic? Where those batteries the same as we use and recommend?
Remember, any battery will heat and vent if shorted. We don't care if a battery vents, it is because they don't explode that we recommend them. It isn't hard to tell a vented battery from an exploded one. A vented one still looks like a battery. Exploded looks more like a twisted sheet of metal. (like cutting a pop can with a lawn mower)

Now some samsungs might explode, such as cell phone batteries, usually this is caused by improper charging or damage to the battery.
Remember, nothing is 100%. We try to make everything as close to 100% safe as we can though.

 

[jjdell]

• Ha ha, saw all i needed to see on our news with actual video footage, not hear say, phones, laptops and if so then as far as we are concerned here down under, all Samsung bats! Samsung has some SERIOUS problems with their battery production at this moment. Discount it at your own peril. Right now, here in the Asia Pacific region Samsung betteries are down the bottom of the ladder at this stage in time. All the others are in the A OK zone. And hey, if you want to use them then go for it. And hey, in case you didnt read the entire post properly and just skimmed it, a battery made by Samsung, in their OWN high tech battery making facility, caused a serious FIRE! Wanna trust one!? Ha ha, maybe they didnt charge it properly, lol, or do the things you mentioned, lol. Hmmmmmm.........you think they know how to treat their "OWN" batteries?

 

[Angrygod50]

If you can't offer real proof then it's only opinion and worth what it costs. Or is this another case of chicken little.

 

[jjdell]

Lol, what, your search engines dont work? As if. Grow up.





What? Your search engines not working right now? LOL

 

[Angrygod50]

Better than your brain. Petulant child.

 

[nightshard]

1. 18650 have a specific size that is implied from their name, that's 18mm wide 65mm long and 0 stands for a round form factor, though some 18650 are slightly bigger.
2. When choosing a battery the first consideration should be it's amp rating not capacity, based on your requirements.
One parameter effects the other so as the rating goes up the capacity goes down.
2. LG, Samsung or Sony, nothing else.
3. Liion, amrbatteries or illumn.

 

[IMFire3605]

Lol, what, your search engines dont work? As if. Grow up.





What? Your search engines not working right now? LOL

Your the one spouting the story, you provide the link so others that don't have the proper google fu can see it, otherwise you can take your hot air and blow a baloon up with it.

 

[Mr.GCs]

Wow,

A big thanks to IMFire3605 for their detailed response and a shot-out to gbalkam for his input. (I was going to buy Nitecore ‘s batteries, I will get their charger though.)

I do deal with batteries a bit, in that I use Lipo’s for RCA and some reachable AA-AAA’s for slopefighters.

Since I’m just getting into vaping to stop a 40-year habit of smoking, I know that I will be diving into the deep end straight away. Including making my own coils and later on my own juice’s.

I’m seriously giving the new SMOK Alien 220W TC Box MOD consideration as my first, but I need to find a good tank that fits my current needs.

But with any MOD you need to know what batteries perform best.



Thanks again for the well informed responses.

 

[nightshard]

I’m seriously giving the new SMOK Alien 220W TC Box MOD consideration as my first, but I need to find a good tank that fits my current needs.

The Alien is a good example of an overpowered mod for the amount of batteries it uses, and why you need to choose a battery based on its rating.
Up to 120W choose 20A 3000mAh batteries (I recommend Samsung 30Qs)
Up to 150W choose 25A batteries (Sony VTC5A)
Above choose 30A batteries (LG HB6).

 

[Mr.GCs]

That's the thing about MODs. Just because they are overpowered doesn't mean you have to use it. I'm (at the moment) not into the cloud chasing aspect but more of the delivery of flavor and the nicotine. But, I'm sure that sooner or later, I'll want to produce some clouds. That however, will have to wait until I'm able to start mixing my own juices.
I'm currently using the eGo knockoffs they sell down here, with Dekang e-liquids. They are straight mechanical pen mods and they tend to start to burn the cotton by the third or forth refill, sometimes less. So, I'd rather have the ability to go extreme and not need it, if it gives me the ability to have the best control for getting the nicotine and flavor.

 

[nightshard]

Nobody says that if you get a 220W mod you actually have to use it at 220W.
What I'm saying is that if you were use just regular 20A batteries and use the mod at 220W that would be bad idea.

 

[Mr.GCs]

Nobody says that if you get a 220W mod you actually have to use it at 220W.
What I'm saying is that if you were use just regular 20A batteries and use the mod at 220W that would be bad idea.

I'll have to buy the MOD and batteries from fasttech.com, as well as the MOD. They have a bunch of knockoffs but they also have some authentic products.

 

[NickIsANoob]

I'll have to buy the MOD and batteries from fasttech.com, as well as the MOD. They have a bunch of knockoffs but they also have some authentic products.

Plenty of authentic devices on fasttech

 

[gbalkam]

I'll have to buy the MOD and batteries from fasttech.com, as well as the MOD. They have a bunch of knockoffs but they also have some authentic products.

I don't trust fasttech for my batteries. Not since I saw them mis-represent the battery specs. Maybe they are using factory seconds, I dont know. But I do know that Samsung, Sony, and LG do NOT list a "pulse rating" on their batteries. So where fasttech got that info, I have no idea.
Never buy a battery that has a "Pulse rating" They are just trying to sell you a cheap battery and mis-representing a non definable value.

For example.. my Samsung 25Rs have no pulse rating. I do advanced builds. I might pulse at the CDR but usually, I am well above the CDR. So a battery might "pulse" at 70 Amps, but that is no indicator that it is SAFE at 70 Amps. There is a whole entire set of tests and tables to take into consideration for each brand and type of battery. For example, 25Rs heat up at a slower rate than say an LG, which is a big bonus. Now what you don't know, is how long the person that pulsed that battery held the fire button for. 10 seconds? 5? 3? 1 second? If you don't know, then the listed pulse rating is garbage and the company should not be trusted.

I buy my batteries, cotton, and premade juice from one local shop. I get a lot of information from them, so I feel supporting them with repeat business is worth a dollar to two extra.