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Atomizer, Mod, and wicking questions

Hi Everyone, I have a few questions:

Is it normal to have to re-wick every 1-2 tanks at about 4 ml each?

I’m thinking about getting a second atomizer to keep one on deck, any recommendations for a second atomizer? Stick with RTA or pickup a RDA? Brands/models? (See current equipment at the bottom of this post) I’m mostly a MTL vaper, looking for a sweet spot of flavor, efficiency, and convenience.

If I get a second atomizer to keep on deck can I keep it filled, and for how long would the juice stay good?

Concerning regulated mods when in power mode, should I keep my watts low enough to not exceed the battery’s normal operating voltage? From what I understand the mod will up the amps to compensate for not having enough volts left in the battery, but that seems like not the best idea. I’ve read up on battery safety but haven’t came across that info yet. My Amps are no where near the max capacity of the battery so I should be good there.

How should I go about trying to get more flavor from my RTA? I have built a handful of coils, but all with the wire that came with my tank, I think it is 26g kanthal, and I copied the prebuilt coils that came with the tank, spaced 6-7 wraps at 1 ohm.

Mod: Geekvape Aegis Solo 100w
Atty: Innokin Ares 2 MTL RTA
Battery: Sony VTC4, 30A, 2100mah, 3.7 normal operating voltage (single battery)

Thanks!
 

5150sick

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Hi :wave: Welcome to the forum.
Why are you having to rewick?

Your mod is regulated, and Sony VTC4s are nice so you should be able to turn it up as much as you like.
The cells are rated at 3.7 volts but charge to around 4.2 volts when full. Sometimes the height of the coils can play a role in flavor. They may be a little bit too high or low and it throws everything off.
 

MyMagicMist

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Is it normal to have to re-wick every 1-2 tanks at about 4 ml each?
Why are you having to rewick?
Agree with @5150sick here. My wick has to get very yucky looking before I pull it, or the taste emulates the Eternal Bog Of Stench.

Though, when you choose to wick is subjective. Some even use Redi-X wick and just burn it clean. That means 1 Redi-X wick could last you years, possibly.

Point however is wicking after 1 or 2 tanks sounds excessive. Why you doing that? Getting burnt taste? Wick looking all stringy and thin? Is it charcoal brick color?

I’m thinking about getting a second atomizer to keep one on deck, any recommendations for a second atomizer? Stick with RTA or pickup a RDA? Brands/models?

What I am currently finding as a favorite is the (brand) Advken (model) Gorge RDA. I am using an SQ squonker mod that is mechanical. This mod uses a single cell 18650 battery. I use (phonetic slang) Molly Cell batteries in it mostly.

Can I say I would suggest this kind of set up for you? No, I cannot. I can say though you might consider the Advken Gorge RDA. It will do well even on a regulated mod, and dripping. It includes the standard 510 pin screw for
Dripping: This is when you drip e-liquid onto an atomiser before use, this method results in incredible flavour vs a standard vape.
and one for squonking.

How should I go about trying to get more flavor from my RTA? I have built a handful of coils, but all with the wire that came with my tank, I think it is 26g kanthal, and I copied the prebuilt coils that came with the tank, spaced 6-7 wraps at 1 ohm.

I think RTAs mute flavor. You could try learning more regarding coil building. That might help you stick with RTAs and even help if you decide to try an RDA.

If I get a second atomizer to keep on deck can I keep it filled, and for how long would the juice stay good?

This is a difficult to answer question. There are so many wide open variables at play one cannot fathom to estimate how long juice will stay good. Consider the environment for one, or a plethora of broad variable/s.

I wouldn't suggest vaping any juice that's sat out in a tank / squonk bottle over three months or so. You can tell if starts going bad by the dark slimy black it turns. If the juice is still a shade of orange / yellow you can still use it. I might add it to some fresher juice.

For sure don't vape it if the juice goes black, only brain damaged and pro folks like me can do that. *chuckles* And there is a bit of a catch 22 here. There are some flavorings which will turn juice black and that's fine, it is how they are meant to be vaped. You can always use the EBOS (that's Eternal Bog Of Stench) test.

Taste like EBOS?

Smell like EBOS?

Yes to either question, toss that shit out.
 
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Thanks guys, I’m re-wicking because of a burnt taste. The wick ends up looking brown when I change it and I have black crud on the coil. I’m probably still getting the hang of wicking properly. Sounds like a few days to a week of a tank filled and ready to go on deck is no big deal.
 

Vape Fan

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Thanks guys, I’m re-wicking because of a burnt taste. The wick ends up looking brown when I change it and I have black crud on the coil. I’m probably still getting the hang of wicking properly. Sounds like a few days to a week of a tank filled and ready to go on deck is no big deal.
A few days to a week before needing rewick MTL doesn't sound abnormal imo. I'm not MTL rebuildable so maybe someone else can chime in here. At lower wattage and less juice used, seems plausible that longer than a week btween wicks is feasible but your not out of the ordinary.

A possibility for brown&crud could be too much wick so it doesn't stay saturated enough, and this would also choke flavor. Not so much that you get dry/burnt hit, be over done a bit so that the coil and wick inside it runs hotter than intended.
What about the wick inside the coil...is it loose?, tight? Too loose and it will fail sooner. Too tight could also describe all your symptoms including flavor loss..
Have you found the amount of wick that is just enough for it to not leak?
Or did you wick and it doesn't leak and vapes , so you keep with that?
Try different wicking (as well as coil height) since it can vary per vaper.
As a starting point, I'm sure you've reviewed wicking. Maybe even this one.
Concerning regulated mods when in power mode, should I keep my watts low enough to not exceed the battery’s normal operating voltage? From what I understand the mod will up the amps to compensate for not having enough volts left in the battery
Regulated mods are voltage regulators.
Regulated mods will have Buck, which is why with even a VTC4 23A battery (see Battery Mooch for all the accurate battery specs) , you can set it to say,, 20W(e.g.). The mod bucks the amps, down, so it can deliver the lower than 23A needed for 20W the mod is set at.
Some regulated mods have Boost. Which is the opposite of buck, wherein it can deliver more wattage that the stated voltage of the batteries otherwise allow but it depends on how many watts. Hence the term Boost.
So when you buy a regulated mod, you're getting buck but mod makers don't tell you if the chip has boost. Most don't.
You have to either do some digging to try to find out, or, if the regulated mod can produce more voltage than the sum of it's battery(s) voltage(manuf specs) - it has to have Boost to do that.
I don't like posting from this asshats channel, but Mooch is there and he explains it.

You're not very optimal with your VTC4 w/ a 1.0Ω coil. A 15-18A 30Q would give you noticeably more runtime. If your under 25W even a 10-12A battery having even more runtime would work well. I have a couple certain single batt mods that I use certain RTA's with and when I do run one of those RTA's (25W &v) They run forever on a single charge compared to the higher A / lower Mah batteries.

If that's the only mod, suggest more mod(s) too. Can't say about MTL RTA's other than I have one I don't use.

What's your wattage? And where is the air flow? Tight/medium/loose?
 

Wb80

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Agreed with all stated above. Id have to say your coil is to low causing shitty airflow to the coil. Gunking up the coil fast, killing flavor and leading to burnt wicking(due to needing to fire it longer to get a decent size pull). Imho opinion id use a thinner gauge wire. 26g ups the overall mass of the coil. But your here on vu asking questions so your headed in the rite direction now. Took me a while to learn correct coil placement, wicking and wattage. After i did it changed my whole vaping experience.
 
Here’s my most recent wick attempt. It has some resistance when flossing the cotton, but not enough to move the coil. Maybe I’m using too much? I might try setting the coil higher as suggested. The airflow is in the most open position on both the bottom airflow and external dial on the bottom. I usually vape it around 12-16 watts. (Top pic is before trimming).
2DFC8379-3716-4AF8-B458-52FBE73B5A58.jpeg
0D8D1549-1BC1-446B-AB2C-67A6894EC5E2.jpeg
13F5359B-E376-41F5-B169-E8681D4DF8A5.jpeg
 

Vape Fan

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Inside the coil sounds good. Perfect actually -

Without pulling any out from inside the coil, rake the tails to thin it a bit to lessen the big arch of cotton. You can use scissors if thinning is going to make it too thin inside the port.

Trim the bottom so the wick is higher up and not toughing or close to the bottom. 9see daniels video above)

A little loose in the wicking ports is ok,,,juice will swell it.

1628964129191.png
 
Inside the coil sounds good. Perfect actually -

Without pulling any out from inside the coil, rake the tails to thin it a bit to lessen the big arch of cotton. You can use scissors if thinning is going to make it too thin inside the port.

Trim the bottom so the wick is higher up and not toughing or close to the bottom. 9see daniels video above)

A little loose in the wicking ports is ok,,,juice will swell it.

View attachment 185207
Thanks, will do.
 

MyMagicMist

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Something else to consider is the juice you use.

Check your PG/VG ratio. I'm thinking probably a 60% VG to 40% PG might be okay. Although you might also consider 50/50. VG despite allegedly having no taste does have a subtle sweetness, ergo there's some kind of "sugar" in it.

Be aware of your juice's flavorings too. Lots of commercial juices use gobs of sugary flavorings. This can add to gunking up coils.
 

5150sick

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The coil & wick part of the above video starts at around 20:00
He uses his fingers to push the coil down some after he makes it

1628989481931.png

Your pic has the coil higher than this.
 

Carambrda

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Although Sony rated the VTC4 at 30A continuous, it reaches over 95°C at that discharge level, which is too high to still be called "a reasonably safe limit". Mooch found that at 23A this cell reaches the same average temperature most cells reach at their rating.

A quick rule of thumb to calculate battery safety for a regulated mod is to take the true continuous rating, or CDR (Continuous Discharge Rating)─that would be 23A for the VTC4─and multiply it by the number of batteries that the mod uses. Next, multiply that by three to find how many watts is the maximum recommended safety limit, which is 69 watts for a single 18650 battery regulated mod using the VTC4. So, either you can stay below 70 watts or you can go for the Molicel P26A, for example, as that one is a 25A cell which performs noticeably better than the VTC4 regardless of wether you stay below 70 watts. If you need more than 75 watts from a single 18650, then go with the Samsung 20S, which is the best performing 18650 cell available to us if we need a 30A cell. Another way to go about it if you need more power is to grab a dual 18650 battery regulated mod or if you don't like the size of that, then look for a decent single 21700 battery regulated mod that'll give you 100 watts with just a single Samsung 30T.
 
Although Sony rated the VTC4 at 30A continuous, it reaches over 95°C at that discharge level, which is too high to still be called "a reasonably safe limit". Mooch found that at 23A this cell reaches the same average temperature most cells reach at their rating.

A quick rule of thumb to calculate battery safety for a regulated mod is to take the true continuous rating, or CDR (Continuous Discharge Rating)─that would be 23A for the VTC4─and multiply it by the number of batteries that the mod uses. Next, multiply that by three to find how many watts is the maximum recommended safety limit, which is 69 watts for a single 18650 battery regulated mod using the VTC4. So, either you can stay below 70 watts or you can go for the Molicel P26A, for example, as that one is a 25A cell which performs noticeably better than the VTC4 regardless of wether you stay below 70 watts. If you need more than 75 watts from a single 18650, then go with the Samsung 20S, which is the best performing 18650 cell available to us if we need a 30A cell. Another way to go about it if you need more power is to grab a dual 18650 battery regulated mod or if you don't like the size of that, then look for a decent single 21700 battery regulated mod that'll give you 100 watts with just a single Samsung 30T.
That does keep it simple. I’m no where near needing 70 watts on my current atty, but that will give me something to think about for my next atty purchase.
 
The coil & wick part of the above video starts at around 20:00
He uses his fingers to push the coil down some after he makes it

View attachment 185225

Your pic has the coil higher than this.
I will have to play around with coil height, some people say higher is better for flavor, some lower. I did run into an issue with getting it too high today… I couldn’t figure out why I had 0.8 ohms with the deck on my tester and it dropped to 0.2 ohms with the tank screwed on. Turns out the metal bell in the tank was hitting the coil. Pushed the coil down a little and the ohms are the same with the atty fully assembled as when the deck is on the tester. Probably one more reason why a proper ohm tester is important. Always good to double check before you fire it up after assembling your tank.
 
Something else to consider is the juice you use.

Check your PG/VG ratio. I'm thinking probably a 60% VG to 40% PG might be okay. Although you might also consider 50/50. VG despite allegedly having no taste does have a subtle sweetness, ergo there's some kind of "sugar" in it.

Be aware of your juice's flavorings too. Lots of commercial juices use gobs of sugary flavorings. This can add to gunking up coils.
I’m going to have to research some juices. I can’t seem to find anything that isn’t 70/30 without it being a nic salt, at least not local to me.
 

dubya314

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New and improved wicking job.
View attachment 185230
That looks much better, imo. By shortening the overall length, you also reduced the "puff" at the top. It is my experience with the Ares I do rewick a bit more often than others. I believe it is due to such a long length of wick required, but idk. I do a lot of rebuildable mtl vaping, like the Ares, but it is far from my top (especially for flavor). If you do decide to get another option and wanna talk choices, shoot me a PM if you'd like to talk some other options. Aslo as stated, a small push downward on the coil should extend wick life and help with flavor with that atty.
 

dubya314

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Also, not sure if you stated what ohms your at, but I find the Ares performs better at lower than some say. I build mine with simple round 26g kanthol, 4 1/2 to 5 wraps, 2.5mm ID. Comes to about .55 ohms, and I like it at about 25 to 30 watts, whatever gets me about 4 volts.
 
Also, not sure if you stated what ohms your at, but I find the Ares performs better at lower than some say. I build mine with simple round 26g kanthol, 4 1/2 to 5 wraps, 2.5mm ID. Comes to about .55 ohms, and I like it at about 25 to 30 watts, whatever gets me about 4 volts.
I was running at 1 ohm because that’s what the coils that came with it were at, those took 7 wraps to get there with the supplied wire, not 100% sure what it is. I just put a 6 wrap on tonight that came out to 0.82, I’m running that at 16w/3.61v. I was running the 1 ohm around 14w/3.7v. I’m liking the little lower ohm with the improved wicking better so far. Lots of experimentation and practice needed still.
 

dubya314

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I was running at 1 ohm because that’s what the coils that came with it were at, those took 7 wraps to get there with the supplied wire, not 100% sure what it is. I just put a 6 wrap on tonight that came out to 0.82, I’m running that at 16w/3.61v. I was running the 1 ohm around 14w/3.7v. I’m liking the little lower ohm with the improved wicking better so far. Lots of experimentation and practice needed still.
Try running that up closer to 20 to 22 watts. As long as it is wicking well, you should notice an uptick in flavor.
 

Carambrda

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That does keep it simple. I’m no where near needing 70 watts on my current atty, but that will give me something to think about for my next atty purchase.
How many watts you'll need is entirely up to you to decide, but yeah... for MTL, vaping as low as 25 watts would still be considered "too high" by a lot of people. To be able to experiment with higher wattages in order to find out how much they prefer, people need more wattages. Also, they need to avoid useless crap that fails to provide the ability to make solid comparisons. I'm only saying this because buying useless crap or merely using their gear in a sub-optimal manner are top on the list of common reasons why so many people came to the wrong conclusion that they dislike vaping at higher wattage levels close to 100 watts and over. I mean, it tends to take more money, time, and effort to properly explore this route. It's much easier to just go ahead and buy something very similar to what most people bought (and that they bought only because doing so was much easier to them also...), which makes it an even easier job for salesmen, or so-called "reviewers" to boost sales by pushing mainstream opinions forward always first. That IMO is a major pitfall that, also IMO, actually stretches very far beyond the subject of wattage categories.

If your preferred wattage happens to be low enough that a single VTC4 can last all day long for how you vape, then, for reasons that should be obvious, there's no direct need to buy a better performing cell. A cell that runs for longer so that it has to be recharged less frequently does, however, degrade slower from using it, at least if the cell doesn't get much warmer than just barely lukewarm each time when you use it. If, for example, you prefer to travel lightly, then having to carry one less spare battery with you [i.e., as a result from having picked ones that run for longer], can also be an additional factor when deciding what to get.

The Samsung 30Q or Sony VTC6 will give you 45 watts per cell, but at that wattage the cell can run pretty warm easily if you don't give it the time it needs to cool back down again, and, the warmer it gets, the faster the cell ages. That's an important reason why the Molicel P26A can be a better choice for those who need that kind of wattage. When it comes to accelerated aging of the cell, cell temperature matters the most, no matter which cell you pick. By not letting the cell reach above 45 degrees Celsius, it is possible to keep the accelerated aging at or below what's considered to be average, or "normal", which translates to being able to use the cell daily for at least a whole year or probably much longer before it starts showing clear signs of nearing end of life soon after. Again, the same principle applies to any cell as long as it's a genuine (not fake), undamaged, cell.

The CDR largely determines how fast a cell heats up, as cells with a higher CDR tend to have a lower DC internal resistance number (DC IR), and, a cell that heats up slower is a cell that wastes less energy. So, how long a cell runs before you need to recharge it is not solely determined by the capacity rating of the cell. I.e., the efficiency you get also matters. Pushing a cell harder─by increasing how many amps you draw from it so that this number reaches closer to the CDR number of this cell in question─is what causes the cell to run less efficiently (until you start pushing it less hard).
 
So fixing the wicking, pushing the coil down, running a lower ohm coil at higher watts (this time is 0.82 at 20w) greatly improved the flavor. I’m still only getting about 2-3 tanks (4-12 ml) before having to re-wick, but someone above in this thread mentioned it could be the sweetened 70/30 juice I have too. No more crispy tasting juice for me. Thanks for the help!
 

5150sick

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So fixing the wicking, pushing the coil down, running a lower ohm coil at higher watts (this time is 0.82 at 20w) greatly improved the flavor. I’m still only getting about 2-3 tanks (4-12 ml) before having to re-wick, but someone above in this thread mentioned it could be the sweetened 70/30 juice I have too. No more crispy tasting juice for me. Thanks for the help!

Some eliquids are brutal on coils.
 

Vape Fan

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Glad you've had success.

More tanks and mods & you could have a rotation and not need to build as often, and at your leisure instead of when the flavor wanes.
In here somewhere you mentioned having the AF all the way open. You might like a more RDL too.
 
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dubya314

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So fixing the wicking, pushing the coil down, running a lower ohm coil at higher watts (this time is 0.82 at 20w) greatly improved the flavor. I’m still only getting about 2-3 tanks (4-12 ml) before having to re-wick, but someone above in this thread mentioned it could be the sweetened 70/30 juice I have too. No more crispy tasting juice for me. Thanks for the help!
Still seems a tad often to me, but I say if all else is well, roll with it. 10 minutes, a piece of wire and a piece of cotton is cheap and no big deal 👍🏻👌
 

MyMagicMist

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More tanks and mods & you could have a rotation and not need to build as often, and at your leisure instead of when the flavor wanes.
In here somewhere you mentioned having the AF all the way open. You might like RDL too.

Here, here. Agree with getting more gear. Also agree you might like Restricted Direct Lung vaping. I sometimes close off the air by half using an Advken Gorge.

authentic-advken-gorge-rda-rebuildable-dripping-atomizer-w-bf-pin-silver-stainless-steel-pei-24mm-diameter.jpg


The picture above shows you how it looks. It is a simple single coil build RDA. I use it with a squonking mod, though it can be used to do regular dripping. Anyway, just something to think on.

Hope you keep doing well on your vaping journey. :)
 

nadalama

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Well you've had a lot of good advice here, but I haven't noticed anyone saying you might throttle that airflow some. Not much, but some. Play with it a little, because it can make a world of difference in the flavor you get from your atty.

Also, in my experience, there is no "higher is better" or "lower is better" as some sort of general rule for coil positioning. The coil needs to be at the optimum position for the atty. If you can tell where the air hits the coil by looking through the airflow ports, the coil should be positioned where you can see maybe the bottom third to half of the coil. You don't want the air going completely under or over the coil.

My thinking on why your coil is gunking up so quickly is because your wattage is too low. You're boiling the juice rather than vaporizing it. The crud from the coil will get on your cotton and make it look dirty, and it will also make it spit and pop.

Good luck!
 

dubya314

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Well you've had a lot of good advice here, but I haven't noticed anyone saying you might throttle that airflow some. Not much, but some. Play with it a little, because it can make a world of difference in the flavor you get from your atty.

Also, in my experience, there is no "higher is better" or "lower is better" as some sort of general rule for coil positioning. The coil needs to be at the optimum position for the atty. If you can tell where the air hits the coil by looking through the airflow ports, the coil should be positioned where you can see maybe the bottom third to half of the coil. You don't want the air going completely under or over the coil.

My thinking on why your coil is gunking up so quickly is because your wattage is too low. You're boiling the juice rather than vaporizing it. The crud from the coil will get on your cotton and make it look dirty, and it will also make it spit and pop.

Good luck!
Whole lotta great info here 👍🏻
 

Wb80

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Building and wicking has a learning curve that goes with it. Hell the first 6 months after i started diy i settled for sub par flavor and vapor simply because i didnt know any better.
Just keep at it and asking questions until you have it rite and it becomes second nature.
 

nethanpaul

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It depends on factors like the type of wick material you’re using, the juice that you use, the temperature that you vape at, and also on your personal preference. Some people don’t mind going a long time in between wick changes while others are more diligent and want to swap out their wick every single time they refill their tank. It’s up to you.
 

MyMagicMist

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@nadalama , You mentioned in a different thread regarding Geekvape Athena mods being battery killers. I just sat here and cleaned what seemed a green glob of amber of the firing bar in one.

The contact bar is silver, ergo you get you this oxidation / corrosion. As said the batteries were not firing. Clean up the contacts & batteries fire again.

Moral, keep yourself on schedule cleaning Geekvape Athena mod contacts. Likely will help avoid killing batteries.
 

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