Coil too hot?

[Synphul]

Hey folks, so I've been playing around with my coil builds the past several times testing different things out. Currently the only wire I have is 28ga 316L ss but I've tried with both single strands, twisted strands etc. I've tried spacing the wraps out, I've tried squeezing them together like a micro coil, ranging anywhere from .6 to 1.4 ohms.

It's a single coil build, not sure if that matters much. When altering wattage it seems like no matter what I do my wicks are burning whenever I get to around 35-40w. Airflow wide open, airflow half open, tc (320-350F). These should all be pretty cool vapes no? Wondering how it is people can build and run 80-100w+ without sucking on burnt cotton. Figure 80w isn't ridiculous for people running a dual coil build at .3 ohm, that would come out to hitting around 40w on a .6 ohm coil wouldn't it?

I've also seen in plenty of vids where people take their tops off their rda's or show the build deck of an rta all wicked and juiced up. They hit the fire button a few times to show how much vapor is coming off of it and the wick is nice and wet and looks fine afterward. Mine's nice and wet too, running my coils with a 4mm id and when I've saturated the wick I can vape that alone 15-20 pulls without getting a dry hit. But barely get a little vapor off it by hitting the fire button, boom - burnt cotton. Then from there on out it all tastes like burnt ass til I rewick it.

Just wondering what gives, why I seem to be limited to such a narrow wattage range. 20w I hardly get much vapor, 30w it's pushing it a little and by 35-40w I'm vaping charcoal. I'm more into flavor than clouds so this kind of a bite in the ass when trying to bring out different flavors in juices. Thanks for any advice.

 

[robot zombie]

What specifically are you wicking with?

With that wide of a diameter, you shouldn't have any problems, unless you're just packing in too much wick, which seems likely based on what you describe. Your wicking isn't keeping up with the coil. The trick is to keep the cotton fluffy (full contact with all surfaces,) but pretty loose (open channels in the cotton.) You should feel just the slightest resistance, but still be able to gently pull it right through. The cotton needs room to expand when it becomes saturated with juice or the coil will choke it out.

 

[Neunerball]

Is the coil heating up properly without wick (center of the coil to the outside)? If they don't you need to tweak around with the coil until it does.
Another issue could be too much wicking material, thus preventing the juice getting into your coil.

 

[Zamazam]

TC works better at low ohms. Normally I build my coils to .11 and then use 40-80 watts at 470 degrees. It could be a combination of wicking method and coil resistance. At .5 ohm and above, just use straight wattage with SS. You should get some decent flavor and clouds.

 

[Neunerball]

TC works better at low ohms. Normally I build my coils to .11 and then use 40-80 watts at 470 degrees. It could be a combination of wicking method and coil resistance. At .5 ohm and above, just use straight wattage with SS. You should get some decent flavor and clouds.

I'm vaping on a single 0.53 Ohm SS316L coil in TC, and the TC works as expected.

 

[Zamazam]

Cool. My suggestion was a guideline.

 

[Synphul]

Just wanted to get back since several replies have been made.

I'm wicking with organic Japanese cotton. The cotton is a little snug but not tight, it only takes a little effort to pull it from the coil. I start out with 60mm x 50mm sheets, cutting them lengthwise into quarters with the grain of the cotton so the juice wicks with the grain. Making the pieces I use roughly 12mm wide (I cut the length to fit my setup which is about half of the 60mm). Peeling the outer layers off before I give it a slight roll between the fingers. I've also tried gently pulling it apart to thin it out using the 'Scottish roll' method which ends up using less cotton but fluffier looser wicking.

The coil does heat properly from the center out though more evenly when the coil wraps are spaced vs a pronounced inside/out glow when packing the wraps tight like a micro coil.

I'll have to try less cotton and see if that helps.

 

[Synphul]

Here's a before and after shot, I apologize for the crappy images. My camera is ancient and sucks but you get the idea. The first pic is the way the coil looked 3 days ago, I just wicked it. Happened to have a pic of it to show a friend of mine who was asking. The second pic is right now after being vaped for 3 days. It's not a trick of the camera, the coil and wick are roughly the same color now.

 

[martnargh]

i prefer my wick a little on the tight side with the end thats bottlenecking into the coil just started to bunch a little, then i pull a little the opposite way to even it out... vaping at 150-180 watts i never have any problems wicking this method. granted, im getting less than a handful of hits per drip. when i uncap it, the wick is dry, white and ready for a redrip.
maybe then id is too large for such a high resistance? i cant say since i never go over 3mm or max 3.5, i think 4mm and beyond is reserved for like pwm boxes thay vape exagerated wattages, but i dont know.
try more wraps, thinner diameter?
also i dont know if its been mentioned but what atomizer are you using? proper airflow is needed to keep coils from overheating during the hit, too tight an airflow might cause burning wick, even at low wattages.

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[Synphul]

Using the ehpro bachelor, it's a single coil postless. I'm not talking about excessive wattages though, just surprised how easily I get a burnt taste that won't go away. Obviously at 80-100w just holding the fire button for several seconds in wattage mode will singe things.

It doesn't matter if I vape with the airflow wide open or halfway, around 35w-40w it's burning. .6ohm isn't super low but it's not the 2.4ohm my vape pen uses either. My typical 'puffs' are anywhere from 2-3s long, rarely do they exceed 3s. I have to try to reach 4-5s and by then the vape is getting unpleasantly hot to me.

I just checked one of the premade coils that came with the tank, the coils are smaller in diameter, more wraps but the cotton is a lot tighter. I had to really tug on the wick to get to move at all. It came with a .2 ohm ni200 coil and can't recall the other, .5 ohm ni80 I think.

 

[Synphul]

I'll see how it does, I went with a single strand 28ga ss 316L at 3.3mm id instead of 4mm. Used around 8-9 wraps and it's coming out at 1.1 ohms. Using less cotton. It definitely glows a lot faster than the twisted I made. Too early to tell just yet how it's going to do in terms of the wick but so far no burnt taste. Started off around 15w and up to around 24w with it, gradually moved up so not like I just immediately hit it hard.

 

[BoomStick]

Quit focusing on the damn numbers dude. "X" ohms alone doesn't mean shit. You're putting too much power to too little metal. You want to run more power, use more metal in your coil. Within the limits of your device of course. Airflow limit and so forth.

 

[joeyboy]

Quit focusing on the damn numbers dude. "X" ohms alone doesn't mean shit. You're putting too much power to too little metal. You want to run more power, use more metal in your coil. Within the limits of your device of course. Airflow limit and so forth.

This....the hair on the back of my throat had to grow back when I went to big the first time.

Higher watts or high Temps doesn't necessarily equal a better vape.

 

[Adam Paseman]

Quit focusing on the damn numbers dude. "X" ohms alone doesn't mean shit. You're putting too much power to too little metal. You want to run more power, use more metal in your coil. Within the limits of your device of course. Airflow limit and so forth.

Exactly. Your using thin gauge wire-it's going to get real hot real quick. You want high wattage vape increase your wire thickness.


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[Synphul]

It's not that I wanted a high wattage vape, I was just testing different wattages for flavor. I noticed when I increased wattage some better flavors came out. What I was surprised at is how quickly the wick was seeming burnt at such a low wattage, I mean hell if the wick's going to burn at 30w or 35w then it doesn't make sense how people can run 100-200w without torching their cotton.

I agree that wire mass has something to do with it, but again I'm not pushing 100w, or even 50w. I don't think most people are using 2ga wire. I was only inquiring why it is I seem to have such a narrow window of wattage to work with, under 20w barely produces vapor, 30w+ starts burning the cotton - a 10w operating range? Seems odd to me. Or how it is my wicks are burning without getting a hot vape, the vape itself is still cool. It doesn't seem to matter whether the wire is single, spaced, micro coil, twisted, twisted micro, 4mm id, 3.3mm id, loose wicked, tight wicked. You'd think changing those that at least one of them would have made a difference.

 

[Adam Paseman]

I would try a thicker gauge wire and tight instead of spaced. If you have same result-then at least it would rule this out.


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[Synphul]

Think I may have figured out part of the solution once I realized how the heat flux are of steam engine worked. I thought it was asking for a known fixed number, not giving the option to change wattage and see how the heat flux changed with a given coil. So far I've had better luck going to a twisted wire. Still trying to sort it all out and testing different things.

Initially I was going back and forth with wattage and tc and tc mode seemed really limited as well. When I'd select the 'ss' option (since I'm using ss wire) I could only go to around 300-330F, 350F was cooking everything. Fooled around with the tfr numbers and started with 88, ended up with almost no vapor. Bumped it to 92 and am able to set my temps much higher, even 440F isn't burning everything up. Essentially giving me a broader temp range between no vapor and burnt.

I tried going with a looser wicking and smaller id but with my current setup it ended up leaking. On the bachelor tank the cotton fits down into wedged cut outs to help form a 'seal' behind the juice flow openings, thinner id coils and less cotton meant not enough to really fill those slots. Went back to 4mm id and more wicking, no leaks. It's a learning curve with the trial and error's for sure.

 

[savagebee]

When I'm using a 4mm I'd coil I will use an entire sheet of cotton per coil. I will take 10 or more 100 watt plus big dl draws with no burning. But I'm using a ton of carefully prepared cotton with max vg juice and 22 ga claptons. Using 28 ga in such a huge diameter is probably the main culprit, imo

 

[Synphul]

This might explain my issue with going to smaller coils a bit better.

I didn't have enough cotton volume using smaller diameter coils to fill the notch out highlighted in orange from top to bottom, even fluffing it. I mean I did get it tucked down to the bottom of that notch in the deck but then there wasn't enough to rise all the way to the green mark around the top ridge where the seal presses over top of the rim when the tank and deck are screwed together.

Not enough cotton at the bottom, juice leaks down and bypasses the cotton filling the deck and eventually dropping down the airflow inlet and leaking out. Not enough cotton protruding at the top of the rim, it leaves a gap and juice can fill up and over the cotton filling the deck and leaking down.

It's possible I'm just an idiot and can't wick for beans but I tried with coil id's closer to 3mm and even snugly fitted with cotton there wasn't enough mass of cotton to fill that notch on both sides top to bottom. Only when I went back to 4mm id was there enough cotton bulk to fill that slot all the way up so the juice either hit the walls of the deck, the top seal or was forced to soak into the wick without bypassing it. I also don't use max vg juice, more like 60/40 (vg/pg) or 50/50. Couldn't imagine fitting a whole 50mm x 60mm sheet of cotton into a 4mm coil, it's somewhat snug using a quarter of a sheet and don't really need the length since the wicks in this rta basically run through the coil and get snipped just past the edge of the deck.

 

[savagebee]

This might explain my issue with going to smaller coils a bit better.

I didn't have enough cotton volume using smaller diameter coils to fill the notch out highlighted in orange from top to bottom, even fluffing it. I mean I did get it tucked down to the bottom of that notch in the deck but then there wasn't enough to rise all the way to the green mark around the top ridge where the seal presses over top of the rim when the tank and deck are screwed together.

Not enough cotton at the bottom, juice leaks down and bypasses the cotton filling the deck and eventually dropping down the airflow inlet and leaking out. Not enough cotton protruding at the top of the rim, it leaves a gap and juice can fill up and over the cotton filling the deck and leaking down.

It's possible I'm just an idiot and can't wick for beans but I tried with coil id's closer to 3mm and even snugly fitted with cotton there wasn't enough mass of cotton to fill that notch on both sides top to bottom. Only when I went back to 4mm id was there enough cotton bulk to fill that slot all the way up so the juice either hit the walls of the deck, the top seal or was forced to soak into the wick without bypassing it. I also don't use max vg juice, more like 60/40 (vg/pg) or 50/50. Couldn't imagine fitting a whole 50mm x 60mm sheet of cotton into a 4mm coil, it's somewhat snug using a quarter of a sheet and don't really need the length since the wicks in this rta basically run through the coil and get snipped just past the edge of the deck.

It's very counter intuitive, but my local b & m showed me how to use the Scottish roll and I've never looked back. Never a dry hit unless the cotton is bone dry. I usually aim to stetch the pad out to 4 times it's original length before I roll and trim.