DOES ANYBODY UNDERSTAND MOOCH?

[susieqz]

hiya guys.
i have watched every you tube vid mooch has put out.
i treat batteries the way he says to.
i buy from the places he tells me to.
i buy his top rated batteries.
i charge at 1 amp when they are half drained.

but, i don't understand lots of what he says.
like i said, i buy his top batteries, but every so often, he says something that makes me wonder if those are the right batteries for me.

see, my .2 coils i vape around 40 watts.
my .5 coils i vape around 20 watts.

i think his best batteries are for people that like hotter vapes.

do you know if there's a better battery for me?
price doesn't matter, just length of performance n longevity.

i'd love your thots.

 

[Rooster Cogburn]

You don’t vape at really high wattage so the best 18650’s for your vape style are LG HG2’s, Sony VTC6’s or Samsung 30Q’s

21700 your best battery will be Samsung 40T’s

 

[susieqz]

thank you, rooster.
i already have some of those, from the top of his list .

 

[f1r3b1rd]

All of his numbers are spot on, as are his recommendations. Imo
If you’re on a regulated device and the vape is too hot, drop the power. If you’re in a Mech, build higher.
Plenty of ways to get the vape you want, just be safe about it.

 

[susieqz]

fine, f1.
i just wasn't sure the top batteries were best for low watts.

as i said, i don't understand everything.

 

[f1r3b1rd]

fine, f1.
i just wasn't sure the top batteries were best for low watts.

as i said, i don't understand everything.

I guess the direct answer would be yes.
The ones rooster recommended would be my top picks. Especially the 30q for 18650.

 

[Wb80]

You don’t vape at really high wattage so the best 18650’s for your vape style are LG HG2’s, Sony VTC6’s or Samsung 30Q’s

21700 your best battery will be Samsung 40T’s

I use 30q's in a set up at 35 to 40w. Works perfect with gr8 bat life. Chain vapae all day. And if its not a all day vapeathon i can pull 2 days on a charge.
Hg2's would be gr8 too

 

[Wb80]

.42 ohms at 34w is what my mod is reading rite now. At 9.1a

 

[5150sick]

I know people are flipping out over the molicel's but I haven't tried them yet.

 

[susieqz]

thanks, guys.
i didn't understand, but now i do.

it's just, everyone talks about 15 amp batteries, 20s, etc.
i thot there might be some advantage to using those, but i guess not.

 

[f1r3b1rd]

thanks, guys.
i didn't understand, but now i do.

it's just, everyone talks about 15 amp batteries, 20s, etc.
i thot there might be some advantage to using those, but i guess not.

Think of a battery as a can. You can only fill it with a set amount of product. In this case it’s run time (mah)or available current( A).
If you want raw amperage, such as building low on a Mech, you want high pulse rate or cdr. To have that you sacrifice run time (mah)
If you want long run time, you sacrifice Amperage.

This is where the 30q fits your needs, it has high enough cdr to be safe (18a-20a) yet maintains high run time ( 3000 mah).

 

[susieqz]

thanks.
the 30q is the only one i haven't got.
i'll order some.

 

[Jon@LiionWholesale]

At 20W, you could seriously consider using some of the 3500mAh 10A batteries, especially if there's more than one battery in the mod. There's no advantage to higher amps if you're not using it, and the mAh capacity obviously means the battery will last longer. Yes, most people vape higher and Mooch does focus on them more although I think he is planning to do a higher capacity battery shootout soon.

 

[pulsevape]

I have no idea what he is talking about, but then I don't have any idea what my doctor or mechanic are talking about I just nod my head and do what they tell me.....as for my priest...I lie to that bastard.

 

[gsmit1]

Mooch is truly a giant at what he does and his information is impeccable. He's also a tech guy and not necessarily the smoothest public speaker who ever walked and I don't think he would claim to be. He's attempting to translate technical information to an audience that includes many non technical people. Not stupid people, but people who just don't wade in the waters of tech stuff all the time like he does.

He does as good a job at what he does as probably anybody could. I will say that once you get a grip on the battery basics as he is conveying them, it becomes easier and easier to follow his videos. I am a tech guy, but not a battery tech guy. It took me a coupla months of watching his videos several times each for some of it to sink in and I'm not all the way there yet either.

 

[gsmit1]

At 20W, you could seriously consider using some of the 3500mAh 10A batteries, especially if there's more than one battery in the mod. There's no advantage to higher amps if you're not using it, and the mAh capacity obviously means the battery will last longer. Yes, most people vape higher and Mooch does focus on them more although I think he is planning to do a higher capacity battery shootout soon.

Hey Jon, I just wanted to say how much I'm enjoying LIW and also throw in that I never miss an opportunity to plug you guys. You run a first rate outfit over there and congrats on landing the deal with Molicell. Great batteries.

 

[Synphul]

The batteries that are best (and Mooch has said it himself), are the ones that suit your application. The new molicells out everyone is raving over are being touted as 'best all around' and to a point they are. If you had to have one battery that would suit 'most' applications, it offers high amperage and fairly decent mah. That said, the 'best' battery is for how you vape. What's best for someone on a mech mod won't necessarily be the 'best' for someone like me who vapes around 60-70w on a dual 18650 regulated and won't be the best battery for someone who vapes 15w on a single 18650 mod.

Assuming your mod is regulated and you're vaping 40w (the higher of the two wattages you mentioned), take your wattage, divide by # of batteries, divide by an estimated low voltage shutoff of 3.2v and divide again by 90% efficiency. Some power is lost from the battery to the coil so they're not 100% efficient. The 3.2v and 90% (or 0.9) are only rough estimates. Low voltage shutoff is where your mod says 'low battery'. It could be 3v, it could be 3.2 or even 3.4v.

So single 18650 mod, 40w / 1 battery = 40. 40 / 3.2v / 0.9 = 13.89 amps. That's the amperage that 18650 needs to be able to put out to prevent overheating it, stressing it beyond its capabilities etc. That would point you toward a 15-20a battery and there aren't any 15-20a lithium batteries with more than 3000mah. You're not going to find an 18650 that's 15-20a and 3500mah or 4000mah, not one that legit performs that way. Some good choices would be the sony vtc6, samsung 30q or lg hg2. In Mooch's 3 way test/comparison of those 3, the samsung 30q performed just slightly behind the vtc6. Usually they're a good amount cheaper than the sony's, so probably the best performer for the price for that application.

Dual 18650 mod, 40w / 2 batteries = 20. 20 / 3.2 / 0.9 = 6.94 amps. You could get away with using 8 amp 18650's with higher mah like mxjo 20a/3500mah (only a true 11amp battery), imren yellow or green 3400/3500mah batteries which say 25a or 30a batteries but only 10-12amp batteries. They're overrated for people who need 15-20amps of power, but if you stayed at 40w or lower on a dual 18650 mod you'd be fine. And you might get a little longer runtime out of them due to the higher mah.

If it seems too sketchy, there's nothing wrong with sticking with known good quality performers like the vtc6 or samsung 30q's. 400-500mah difference isn't going to matter a whole lot over 3000mah. Sure if you're comparing an internal battery pod or something with 400mah vs 900mah it's a big difference in how long of a charge you get. Above 3000mah it might mean 30-60min extra run time so not a ton of gain. And if you ever did vape above 40w on dual vtc6's or 30q's you wouldn't have to worry that you're right at the upper amperage limits for the battery.

 

[susieqz]

thanks, syn.
i just ordered half a dozen 30qs to try.
i already have some vt6s, i think.
i'll read your post til i understand everything you said.

 

[SteveS45]

i already have some vt6s, i think.

This is a problem in my opinion. You must know what you have and what you are using in any vaping application. No I thinks or not sure what coils I am firing. this leads to Booms and Darwin awards. Sorry if it offends anyone but WTF you don't know what you are using but will blame a battery venting on your device. Not in my world there is no room for error or I didn't know.

 

[susieqz]

every battery i have came from the top of mooch's list.
might be vt5s if he was recommending them a few months ago.
the outside of the batteries doesn't say.
they all came from liion.

 

[SteveS45]

the outside of the batteries doesn't say.

Every battery I have ever gotten from LION is clearly marked and I can identify which I am using.

 

[susieqz]

i have brown ones that aren't marked.
also, brown ones that say3000mah 3.7v
the green ones say `18650 2599mah 3.7v

some are lg hg2

 

[gsmit1]

thanks, syn.
i just ordered half a dozen 30qs to try.
i already have some vt6s, i think.
i'll read your post til i understand everything you said.

That was a great post from @Synphul

in a nutshell, capacity is the amount of runtime a battery can give before it's voltage drops below a usable level. This is measured in MAH (milliamp hours)

Current is the level of power that is being drawn from batteries and is measured in amps. (amperes)

Battery technology is a tradeoff between the two. You have to give up some of one in order to gain some of the other. Asking a given battery for more amperage than it is capable of is where the problems come in, especially for mech users. Because there is no mechanism for interrupting the circuit if this is the case.

Synphul's general point, which indeed is Mooch's (and Jons') point too, is why give up capacity for current that you'll never need? If you can get a battery that will give you a meaningfully increased runtime, that is capable of the current requirements of your style of vaping, that's what you'd want to do.

 

[gsmit1]

i have brown ones that aren't marked.
also, brown ones that say3000mah 3.7v
the green ones say `18650 2599mah 3.7v
some are lg hg2

Every battery I have ever gotten from LION is clearly marked and I can identify which I am using.

I'm with Steve. I'm not saying there are no other reliable shops around, but you just can't go wrong with LIW

 

[susieqz]

looks like i screwed up.
some of the batteries i have are 2500 mah.
the 30qs i just ordered are 3000 mah., so, most of my batteries are inferior.
good to know.
this thread has paid off.
thanks, guys.

 

[gsmit1]

Honestly, for what the average regulated vaper needs to know, it's not THAT complicated. It just seems like it at first.

 

[SteveS45]

Honestly, for what the average regulated vaper needs to know, it's not THAT complicated. It just seems like it at first.

Knowing what you are using is the 1st step to being Safe while Vaping. Too many times I see someone posting about shit happening but the one relevant thing was I didn't know. Shit happens when you play with power and do not know what you are using or doing, 18650 power Tesla's but you hardly ever see them in the news for fires except when they had the height issue fucking up the battery pack because they bottomed out. Sort of like damaged wraps.

 

[Jon@LiionWholesale]

i have brown ones that aren't marked.
also, brown ones that say3000mah 3.7v
the green ones say `18650 2599mah 3.7v

some are lg hg2

If they came from us, then sometimes we have to put a sticker on there depending on how we ship it. If you peel that sticker off you'll see the factory markings underneath.

 

[Jon@LiionWholesale]

Hey Jon, I just wanted to say how much I'm enjoying LIW and also throw in that I never miss an opportunity to plug you guys. You run a first rate outfit over there and congrats on landing the deal with Molicell. Great batteries.

Thanks! We always appreciate the support.

 

[Jon@LiionWholesale]

The batteries that are best (and Mooch has said it himself), are the ones that suit your application. The new molicells out everyone is raving over are being touted as 'best all around' and to a point they are. If you had to have one battery that would suit 'most' applications, it offers high amperage and fairly decent mah. That said, the 'best' battery is for how you vape. What's best for someone on a mech mod won't necessarily be the 'best' for someone like me who vapes around 60-70w on a dual 18650 regulated and won't be the best battery for someone who vapes 15w on a single 18650 mod.

Assuming your mod is regulated and you're vaping 40w (the higher of the two wattages you mentioned), take your wattage, divide by # of batteries, divide by an estimated low voltage shutoff of 3.2v and divide again by 90% efficiency. Some power is lost from the battery to the coil so they're not 100% efficient. The 3.2v and 90% (or 0.9) are only rough estimates. Low voltage shutoff is where your mod says 'low battery'. It could be 3v, it could be 3.2 or even 3.4v.

So single 18650 mod, 40w / 1 battery = 40. 40 / 3.2v / 0.9 = 13.89 amps. That's the amperage that 18650 needs to be able to put out to prevent overheating it, stressing it beyond its capabilities etc. That would point you toward a 15-20a battery and there aren't any 15-20a lithium batteries with more than 3000mah. You're not going to find an 18650 that's 15-20a and 3500mah or 4000mah, not one that legit performs that way. Some good choices would be the sony vtc6, samsung 30q or lg hg2. In Mooch's 3 way test/comparison of those 3, the samsung 30q performed just slightly behind the vtc6. Usually they're a good amount cheaper than the sony's, so probably the best performer for the price for that application.

Dual 18650 mod, 40w / 2 batteries = 20. 20 / 3.2 / 0.9 = 6.94 amps. You could get away with using 8 amp 18650's with higher mah like mxjo 20a/3500mah (only a true 11amp battery), imren yellow or green 3400/3500mah batteries which say 25a or 30a batteries but only 10-12amp batteries. They're overrated for people who need 15-20amps of power, but if you stayed at 40w or lower on a dual 18650 mod you'd be fine. And you might get a little longer runtime out of them due to the higher mah.

If it seems too sketchy, there's nothing wrong with sticking with known good quality performers like the vtc6 or samsung 30q's. 400-500mah difference isn't going to matter a whole lot over 3000mah. Sure if you're comparing an internal battery pod or something with 400mah vs 900mah it's a big difference in how long of a charge you get. Above 3000mah it might mean 30-60min extra run time so not a ton of gain. And if you ever did vape above 40w on dual vtc6's or 30q's you wouldn't have to worry that you're right at the upper amperage limits for the battery.

BTW not sure if everyone's aware but for people that don't like to math, we have this as a calculator on our website. (it assumes 3.0V which for you guys is probably a good conservative assumption): https://liionwholesale.com/pages/regulated-mod-calculator

 

[Synphul]

BTW not sure if everyone's aware but for people that don't like to math, we have this as a calculator on our website. (it assumes 3.0V which for you guys is probably a good conservative assumption): https://liionwholesale.com/pages/regulated-mod-calculator

That works also, thanks @Jon@LiionWholesale . The calculator does the same exact thing the equation I wrote out does only much simpler for people who don't want to do the math. All are estimates anyway and 3v isn't so bad. Mods differ based on where they determine low voltage should be, my smok alien gave 'low battery' warnings around 2.95-3v, my vaporesso revenger was more around 3.4v, the ipv eclipse displays low battery somewhere around 3.2 to 3.3v. It gives a good starting point for battery amperage needs based on wattage and gets people pretty close.

Good company, you guys are who I got several pair of sony vtc6's from. Made it worthwhile not only the good prices but now you guys are carrying battery wraps and insulator rings as well which is a perk. Plus the free battery cases for every pair, something imrbatteries does also. I always appreciate battery companies going a step further to promote safety.

 

[susieqz]

yup. the free cases are nice.
2 of my brown ones have no stickers or markings.
is this a problem?

 

[gsmit1]

yup. the free cases are nice.
2 of my brown ones have no stickers or markings.
is this a problem?

"Brown ones" doesn't mean anything by itself. Anybody can wrap any battery in anything. Where did you get them and what were you told they were?

 

[susieqz]

supposed to be lg hg2 from liion

 

[gsmit1]

supposed to be lg hg2 from liion

Oh, sorry. I didn't pick up on the fact that they were from LIW. If you post a pic and tag Jon, I'm sure he can tell what's going on, but if they came from them, they're good.

 

[susieqz]

well, it's liion's fault i never know what batteries i have.
if i need to know that i just go to their site n look up past orders.

 

[gsmit1]

well, it's liion's fault i never know what batteries i have.

To be honest, they sell the same batteries to everybody and it's up to us to know what batteries we have after we get them. Don't forget, the batteries we use were not designed or sold for vaping by the manufacturers. They're not even supposed to ever be seen by consumers really. They are designed for internal battery packs to be used in small appliances and power tools and stuff like that. They don't always come off the line with markings that specifically say what model they are.

...if i need to know that i just go to their site n look up past orders.

You'll get to know which ones you have. Remember when you first came here how everybody was telling you how important it is to only get batteries from a source that is known to sell only authentic quality batteries?

For now, the HG2s you got from them and the 30Qs you have on the way will work fine.

You use both dual and single battery setups though right?

 

[susieqz]

just 2 battery regulated mods.
i treat those batteries like fine china.
my whole life revolves around batteries.
i also have some sony vtc5a batteries

 

[SteveS45]

Bear in mind what LIION adds to purchase of any cells and it is not there fault you can't identify what you are using.

DISCLAIMER:
LITHIUM ION BATTERIES ARE DANGEROUS, AND MAY EXPLODE OR BURN DUE TO IMPROPER USE. USING THESE BATTERIES FOR PURPOSES NOT INTENDED BY THE MANUFACTURER MAY CAUSE SEVERE INJURY AND DAMAGE. LiionWholesale is not responsible for any injury or damage, direct or indirect, caused by the use of lithium ion batteries. Any information contained in this communication should not be relied upon as advice or construed as providing recommendations of any kind. It is YOUR responsibility to confirm and decide which batteries to use in what manner. In no event should the content of this correspondence be constructed as an express or implied promise or guarantee of merchantability, fitness for a particular purchase (whether express or implied by law), course of dealing, course of performance, usage of trade, or otherwise. Recipient acknowledges that it is the full and absolute responsibility of the recipient to choose and maintain batteries responsibly, and they will not hold LiionWholesale or its employees or subsidiaries responsible for any damages sustained while using lithium ion batteries.

 

[susieqz]

there is no possibility that a battery will give me trouble unless it has an internal defect.

 

[gsmit1]

my whole life revolves around batteries.

Very cute
Just like this guy:

 

[gsmit1]

i also have some sony vtc5a batteries

If they are known authentics from a good source, they will work for you just fine too. Seeing that you are all gung ho on learning the deep technical side of these things, those would be best in your higher powered (for you) setups.

 

[gsmit1]

there is no possibility that a battery will give me trouble unless it has an internal defect.

Authentic quality batteries will very rarely actually be the problem where there is one and good regulated devices make things a whole lot easier, but it's still a good idea to at least gain a rudimentary knowledge of what kind of power you're putting under your nose. Nobody's meaning to just give you a hard time

 

[susieqz]

i've watched every single you tube mooch has put out.
yeah, i don't understand lots of it, but i've done what i can.
i handle guns safely so i guess i can do this.
not my fault mooch doesn't put training wheels on his vids.

 

[f1r3b1rd]

i've watched every single you tube mooch has put out.
yeah, i don't understand lots of it, but i've done what i can.
i handle guns safely so i guess i can do this.
not my fault mooch doesn't put training wheels on his vids.

What is it that you are trying to understand? The math? The verbiage? How the numbers work?

 

[Vape Fan]

I know people are flipping out over the molicel's but I haven't tried them yet.

I'm using P26A 18650 in parallel unregulated and I like the 50A. I can tell a little difference in run time vs 30Q but not that much and I don't miss it. Conversely they charge faster than 30Q or VTC6 that I use in regulated.

Molicel's P42A vs 40T is a toss up imo. P42A(30A) has more amps and a tad more Mah vs 40T(25A), but are slightly fatter.
For a single 21700 regulated mod @ about 60w or less the 40T is a sure fit. Over about 60W you might want the 30A P42A or you might want it for the extra amps anyways, provided it fits.

 

[susieqz]

you know, ii know all the words mooch uses.
but, when he puts them together into a sentence , i get lost.

i'm no engineer, but i'm a better carpenter than he is.

 

[f1r3b1rd]

you know, ii know all the words mooch uses.
but, when he puts them together into a sentence , i get lost.

i'm no engineer, but i'm a better carpenter than he is.

Ahh so it’s the vocabulary.
I know it can be confusing for people without an electronics background to understand the words used. When I first started the EE program in college, i had a hard time keeping track of them also. I had to understand the basic theory of how they interacted. After that, it all clicked and became second nature.
Then again, I wouldn’t be able understand instructions you would give me on how to build a deck.
After Katrina, contractors were using all sorts of weird craziness. All I did was nod and walk away.
Kudos for reaching out and asking questions.

I know we probably didn’t answer your question in a way that makes sense. If there is any direct concept you want a better explanation of, by all means ask away.

 

[susieqz]

well, just tell me if i'm correct in what i think i learned from this thread.
i think i'm supposed to pay attention to mahs instead of the other numbers, for low watt uses.
correct?

 

[f1r3b1rd]

well, just tell me if i'm correct in what i think i learned from this thread.
i think i'm supposed to pay attention to mahs instead of the other numbers, for low watt uses.
correct?

Let me preface my answer with the following statement:
I tend to always err on the side of caution. The EE In me tends to make me look at numbers and all factors involved.

That said, yes and no. More yes than no. You still want to make sure they can handle the amperage you need.

If you’re running a 0.2ohm coil at 40w than you are running 14.1 amps.
All you really need on paper is a 15a battery. Most batteries that we see at vape vendors are at least 15a.. however that is most not all.

The ultra safe ninny in me, always wants to say to stick with moochs suggestions, not so much because of his word as the fact that he tests them thoroughly and isn’t bound by any battery manufacturer. I would rather trust his test than a battery companies claim. He’s proven more than a few to be lying.

Back when I started, we were using 1.5-2 ohm coils at 12w (1.8a). Almost anything would run that. We rebellious vapors we’re running 0.9ohm coils and getting slammed for it.