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E-Cigarette Users Sue Over Exploding Devices

5150sick

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http://www.wsj.com/articles/e-cigarette-users-sue-over-exploding-devices-1467538202

Welcome to America, Where being fucking stupid allows you to sue people.

But why stop at lithium ion batteries?

I remember crashing my bike and busting my ass on a skateboard when I was a kid.
Maybe I should have sued the store that sold them to me and the company that made them?
Shit, maybe I should have sued the company that made my Airwalk's because surely if I were wearing Nike's my foot wouldn't have slipped off the pedal.

So where and when should this suing bullshit stop???

I would ask you all to read my bio in the Vaping Underground Leadership Introductions section:
http://vapingunderground.com/threads/5150sick.622/

There has been well over a dozen times in my life where I could have very easily sued the shit out of some one, some hospital, some doctor, etc... and I could have been awarded a large some of money but I didn't.

You know why?
Because I'm not a greedy money grubbing asshole.
I am more than happy when I leave a hospital still alive.

Why can't these other people see that not being dead as a win? - 5150


EDIT: You can Read the story 4 posts down if you hit a paywall
 
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mikeyboy74

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I read your bio whenever I need to regain some faith. Funny how being in that condition changes our perspective. Almost lost a cancer battle in 2009. Not sure why I am here 7 years later and others are not. Can't pin it on healthy living or positive thinking. As bad as it was, it did not compare to your ordeal.

I am sad about how the country has changed in that time. This includes the perilous future of our hobby and community.

I had an istick 40 tc hard short in the car 3 weeks ago. It was red hot and venting. Never though that would happen. Fortunately I was present when this happened. Not suing anyone though. Also had a defective Android vent last month. Motorola took it very seriously, and replaced the phone no questions asked. Shot happens.
 

Rabbit Slayer

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But shouldn't you expect the vent holes in your mod actually keep the mod from becoming a pipe-bomb, even if it is your fault the battery vented?
 

5150sick

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But shouldn't you expect the vent holes in your mod actually keep the mod from becoming a pipe-bomb, even if it is your fault the battery vented?

Half of these lawsuits are from people who decided to stick live 18650 batteries in their pocket with keys and change.
About 1/4 is people who thought it was smart to build a .001 ohm coil and stick a trustfire or shitty efest battery into their hybrid mech mod.
They aren't venting batteries, they are DEAD SHORTING them.

Should this stupidity be rewarded?

Because that is what is now happening in America.

We used to reward creativity and intelligence but now we reward stupidity.
 

5150sick

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Rachel Berven grabbed her e-cigarette and put in a new battery one day in February, the same way she had often done since turning to the vapor-emitting device to quit smoking a year earlier.

But this time, when Ms. Berven pushed the activation button, she claims the e-cigarette exploded, ripping a hole in her mouth and spewing battery acid across her body. Months later, Ms. Berven says she is struggling to pay for dental procedures to replace three cracked teeth, bears scars on her face and won’t wear shorts in the sweltering Modesto, Calif., heat because of burn marks on her legs from the accident.

“In my head, the explosion just keeps happening,” said 27-year-old Ms. Berven, who in March sued Switch to Vapor, the retailer that sold her the e-cigarette, for negligence. A store manager had no comment.

Since hitting the U.S. market in 2007, e-cigarettes, which heat liquid nicotine and other ingredients into an inhalable vapor, have been touted as a safer alternative to traditional cigarettes and a path to quitting smoking. But some lawyers and consumers say the $3.5 billion industry isn’t doing enough to address a potential hazard: cheaply made lithium-ion batteries in the products that can unexpectedly explode.

Industry groups say that any purported explosions are negligible, considering the overall number of e-cigarette users, and that accidents are often the result of user error.


Dozens of lawsuits over the alleged defects have been filed in Florida, New York, California and other states. Many of the batteries at issue are manufactured by Chinese companies, which are difficult to haul into U.S. courts. So lawyers typically set their sights more broadly, often naming as defendants everyone in the supply chain.

“It’s an issue of the batteries being unregulated and manufactured haphazardly with poor warnings that never get down to the consumer,” said Marc Freund, a New York attorney whose firm has filed suits on behalf of a teenage boy who allegedly became partially blinded from an e-cigarette explosion at a mall kiosk and a woman who claims she suffered third-degree burns on her thigh when a battery exploded in her pocket.

The Transportation Department recently banned e-cigarettes in checked luggage, citing several fires caused by the devices. And politicians have called on authorities to investigate the products.

Hoverboards, which use lithium-ion batteries, also have come under investigation for causing fires and explosions and are banned on flights by many major airlines.

After years of scant oversight, government agencies are beginning to scrutinize the e-cigarette industry. Research from the Food and Drug Administration, which said in May it would begin regulating e-cigarettes, found 134 reports of overheating, fires and explosions of the devices in the U.S. between 2009 and January 2016. The agency is phasing in rules that will require vaping products on the market to secure government approval.

E-cigarettes, which range in price from around $10 to $300, come in two primary forms: enclosed “pen” devices that resemble a regular cigarette, and larger “mods,” which allow users to modify and customize them. Recent litigation over alleged explosions has centered on the mods, although a 2014 report from the Federal Emergency Management Agency’s U.S. Fire Administration found two dozen reports of fires or explosions from pen-style e-cigarettes.

NA-CK690_ECIG_9U_20160702140909.jpg

Smoke-Free Alternatives Trade Association, a group that represents e-cigarette manufacturers, retailers, importers and wholesalers, said it takes safety incidents seriously. It said millions of former smokers in the U.S. and overseas “have found vaping to be a significant alternative to combustible cigarettes.”

In October, a jury in Riverside, Calif., awarded a woman nearly $1.9 million in damages in a lawsuit against a retailer, distributor and wholesaler who she sued after an e-cigarette allegedly exploded while charging in her car, leaving her with severe burns. The defendants argued in court filings that the damages were caused by misuse of the e-cigarette.

Gregory Bentley, a Southern California attorney who handled the case, said he represents nearly 70 others pursuing claims, including Ms. Berven, and has filed 29 lawsuits so far. Most are in preliminary stages.

One of Mr. Bentley’s clients, Vicente Garza-Flores, is still recovering after losing half an index finger on his dominant hand and several teeth in an October accident that he says was caused by an exploding e-cigarette. Mr. Garza-Flores is suing the retailer where he bought the e-cigarette and battery, Luxor Cafe Vape Lounge, as well as the store where he got a charger, Vape Fame, and distributor Flawless Vape Wholesale & Distribution Inc. Luxor Cafe and Vape Fame declined to comment. An attorney for Flawless had no immediate comment.

Experts hired by plaintiffs in e-cigarette lawsuits say the lithium-ion batteries can lack controls to prevent either overcharging or discharging to a voltage that is too low, which can cause combustion. The batteries also can lack a hollow center core that would allow gas to escape slowly.

Several litigants claim the batteries in the e-cigarettes they used came from a Chinese company called MXJO. E-cigarette models that appeared in several lawsuits were made by Chinese companies Sigelei, iPV Technology Co. Ltd. and Kangertech. The head of sales at Sigelei said she didn’t know anything about the lawsuits and declined to answer further questions. The other companies didn’t respond to emails and calls seeking comment.

Big tobacco companies including Altria Group Inc., Reynolds American Inc., and Imperial Brands PLC have all launched or acquired e-cigarette divisions. But the targets of the recent spate of lawsuits have mostly been smaller retailers, online merchants and manufacturers.

Gregory Conley, president of the American Vaping Association, a nonprofit that advocates for smaller businesses in the industry, said the explosion reports he has seen are largely from consumers using the wrong chargers or from incidents with more complex, customizable “mechanical mods,” which he says have fallen out of favor as vapor-product technology has advanced.

“When used and charged properly, vapor products pose no more of a fire risk than any other product that is powered by lithium-ion batteries, like cellphones or laptops,” Mr. Conley said.

—Fanfan Wang contributed to this article
 

5150sick

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Wouldn't it be a brilliant idea if the people writing the story were smart enough to ask person who blew themselves up what mod, atty, and batteries they were using?

Also:


"Several litigants claim the batteries in the e-cigarettes they used came from a Chinese company called MXJO. E-cigarette models that appeared in several lawsuits were made by Chinese companies Sigelei, iPV Technology Co. Ltd. and Kangertech"

I know as 100% fact that neither iPV Technology Co. Ltd. or Kangertech make batteries at all.

So they are doing a piss poor job at reporting.

They just think "ecigarette" as a singular device which it is not (well, unless the FDA gets their way)
 

AndriaD

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134 reports of overheating, fires and explosions of the devices in the U.S. between 2009 and January 2016.

134 incidents in 6 yrs, averages to 22.33 incidents per year... and how many MILLIONS of people used them MILLIIONS of times in that 6 yrs?????

Wouldn't it be freaking awesome if there had only been 134 automobile wreckcidents in 6 yrs? Shit, there's probably more than 134 PER WEEK in the good ol USA! So quick, let's ban cars!

Andria
 

Rabbit Slayer

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Half of these lawsuits are from people who decided to stick live 18650 batteries in their pocket with keys and change.
About 1/4 is people who thought it was smart to build a .001 ohm coil and stick a trustfire or shitty efest battery into their hybrid mech mod.
They aren't venting batteries, they are DEAD SHORTING them.

Should this stupidity be rewarded?

Because that is what is now happening in America.

We used to reward creativity and intelligence but now we reward stupidity.
What about the people using efest batteries? Sure 15% of the vaping community, the ones that read forums, knows to avoid them but the rest of the public...just an accident waiting to happen.

And the fact there are next to no facts released with the stories about e-cig "explosions" we can't just assume all of them are idiots

I agree America is sue happy and all you have to do is read a warning label "don't use this plug-in electric device in the shower" to know there are far too many stupid people walking around, but i don't believe e-cig/battery manufacturers are 100% in the clear in every case
 

gingerbread

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What about the people using efest batteries? Sure 15% of the vaping community, the ones that read forums, knows to avoid them but the rest of the public...just an accident waiting to happen.

And the fact there are next to no facts released with the stories about e-cig "explosions" we can't just assume all of them are idiots

I agree America is sue happy and all you have to do is read a warning label "don't use this plug-in electric device in the shower" to know there are far too many stupid people walking around, but i don't believe e-cig/battery manufacturers are 100% in the clear in every case
Agreed. Not everyone does their reasech before purchasing. Personally l do this with everything prior to buying. That is how l know about battery safety. However this information should come with the Mod and the battery manufacturer, just like it does with everything else we buy. So whilst the vendor is not truly to blame they are aware of this fact like we are. So if l was them l would enclose a leaflet about battery safety with every purchase of said items.

On a different note. 5150 Stick - l read your back story. WOW you have been though a lot. Pleased that you are doing well now and managed to laugh your way through some of it. It really does help. Thank you for all these articles that you provide, most interesting and l have learned a lot.
 

nightshard

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It's kind of like biting the hand feeds you, but if it's one of those e-cigs made by BT then there is no question about it, sue the crap out of them, they can effort it.

If a product is defective it's one thing, but if you are an idiot that's another.

I personally think that everyone should pay the price for their own actions, unfortunately in America everything has to be idiot proof, to protect the idiots and protect the children and so on.
 

freemind

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What about the people using efest batteries? Sure 15% of the vaping community, the ones that read forums, knows to avoid them but the rest of the public...just an accident waiting to happen.

And the fact there are next to no facts released with the stories about e-cig "explosions" we can't just assume all of them are idiots

I agree America is sue happy and all you have to do is read a warning label "don't use this plug-in electric device in the shower" to know there are far too many stupid people walking around, but i don't believe e-cig/battery manufacturers are 100% in the clear in every case

The only place where I agree someone should be sued, is in the case of batteries. Efest, MXJO, Vamped, and countless others, fudge their numbers to boost sales. These battery rewrappers/manufactures should be held liable for their stats, and the misuse that happens because of their stupidity.

However, other than the Cloupor mini 30 melt down saga, I do not know of any devices that have ever been made faulty to the point of harm to consumers. It's always either a shit battery, or a complete dumb fuck that is the issue.
 

Whiskey

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134 incidents in 6 yrs, averages to 22.33 incidents per year... and how many MILLIONS of people used them MILLIIONS of times in that 6 yrs?????

Wouldn't it be freaking awesome if there had only been 134 automobile wreckcidents in 6 yrs? Shit, there's probably more than 134 PER WEEK in the good ol USA! So quick, let's ban cars!

Andria
Because folks like to incite unrest in the vaping community by articles like this, when I see them posted most of the time I don't even look because I know how absolutely stupid the people involved are.
Edit and most have very little truthful facts behind the story.
 

AndriaD

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It's kind of like biting the hand feeds you, but if it's one of those e-cigs made by BT then there is no question about it, sue the crap out of them, they can effort it.

If a product is defective it's one thing, but if you are an idiot that's another.

I personally think that everyone should pay the price for their own actions, unfortunately in America everything has to be idiot proof, to protect the idiots and protect the children and so on.

Actually I think it's more to protect the hindquarters of businesses from all the whiners -- product liability is definitely something that can break a business, especially in a society as litigious as ours. Very few individuals even GRASP "personal responsibility" anymore, nevermind exercising it, so business are in the position of covering their asses every possible way they can think of.

Andria
 

AndriaD

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The only place where I agree someone should be sued, is in the case of batteries. Efest, MXJO, Vamped, and countless others, fudge their numbers to boost sales. These battery rewrappers/manufactures should be held liable for their stats, and the misuse that happens because of their stupidity.

However, other than the Cloupor mini 30 melt down saga, I do not know of any devices that have ever been made faulty to the point of harm to consumers. It's always either a shit battery, or a complete dumb fuck that is the issue.

I agree. The bad thing is "shit battery + complete moron = 'vaping ate my face' articles". Because the media are complete dumb fucks too.

Andria
 

AndriaD

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Because folks like to incite unrest in the vaping community by articles like this, when I see them posted most of the time I don't even look because I know how absolutely stupid the people involved are.
Edit and most have very little truthful facts behind the story.

Ditto, I never bother reading the articles and certainly not the comments, because I know both are an exercise in mindless drivel. Which is why I spend time both here, and at Twitter; once my threshold for stupidity has been reached at one, I have to go to the other. :D

Andria
 

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If the reporter just put.
Person was a stupid motherfucker.. they would be out a job.
So dumb motherfucker 1 abuses battery and listens to the the "expert" at the shop.. shit gets real and they rack up bills to recover from their retarded shit.
Dumb motherfucker 2 reports it is the evil chinese e cig, adds a whole bunch of stupid bullshit to fill in the holes.

Article published.

So this is the same kind of bullshit Hurst did to crusade his war on weed and hemp. Fuck the media, the fda and all the knuckle dragging mouth breathing low hanging fruit that buys into it.
 

nightshard

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Here's an example of a company trying to cover all bases.
A prize if you know where it's from (well not really).
ximm
 
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5150sick

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So, the girl in the story - Rachel Berven - who's mod exploded "ripping a hole in her mouth and spewing battery acid across her body."

Here is a pic of her at her very worst and the second pic TWO MONTHS later:


Rac001.jpg rac002.jpg


I think she will live - 5150 (thank you facebook)
 

5150sick

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The only place where I agree someone should be sued, is in the case of batteries. Efest, MXJO, Vamped, and countless others, fudge their numbers to boost sales. These battery rewrappers/manufactures should be held liable for their stats, and the misuse that happens because of their stupidity.

The problem is the China battery rewrapper never has his day in court because of the fucked up way the system works so "mom & pop vapes" ends up getting sued out of business for something that isn't their fault.
 

5150sick

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Here's an example of a company trying to cover all bases.
A prize if you know where it's from (well not really).
ximm


The inside of the door jam on back door of a vehicle?
 

5150sick

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What about the people using efest batteries? Sure 15% of the vaping community, the ones that read forums, knows to avoid them but the rest of the public...just an accident waiting to happen.

And the fact there are next to no facts released with the stories about e-cig "explosions" we can't just assume all of them are idiots

I agree America is sue happy and all you have to do is read a warning label "don't use this plug-in electric device in the shower" to know there are far too many stupid people walking around, but i don't believe e-cig/battery manufacturers are 100% in the clear in every case

The main problem I have is since our laws and politics are so fucked up in America these people can not sue the (correct people) China manufacturers so instead their dirtbag attorneys go after who ever they can (the wrong people) and mom & pop vape shops are losing everything because of it.

I've never even sued someone (some doctor, some hospital, etc...) who actually did me wrong so what kind of person do you have to be to take the money of people who aren't really at fault (Mom & Pop Vape Shop) for your own personal gain?
 

freemind

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The problem is the China battery rewrapper never has his day in court because of the fucked up way the system works so "mom & pop vapes" ends up getting sued out of business for something that isn't their fault.
Understood.

But mom and pop are not the ones making the battery. They just sell it.

Unfortunately, until the citizens take back their country, this is what we have.
 

nightshard

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The problem is the China battery rewrapper never has his day in court because of the fucked up way the system works so "mom & pop vapes" ends up getting sued out of business for something that isn't their fault.
If a vape shop sells crap products they should be ready to take some of the heat when it all comes crashing down.

The vape shop gets sued because it can be sued, while the Chinese manufacturer just says fuck you and your american laws, you can just kiss my ass.
 

nightshard

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The inside of the door jam on back door of a vehicle?
Driver door of a Dodge Viper.
That's how you take something really cool and make it annoying.
Imagine owning a Dodge viper and having that full sized sticker stare you in the face each time you open the door, off it goes :D
 
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Rabbit Slayer

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I have no problem whatsoever with someone suing a shop that sold them mislabeled batteries.
B&M shop need to stop carrying shitty batteries and actually care about the people they are making a living off of.
 

AndriaD

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But retailers only know what their wholesalers tell them. It's really the company that makes them lying to everybody, but the only remedy for that is knowing the product. How the hell can retailers be expected to know every tech spec of every item they sell?

Andria
 

freemind

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But retailers only know what their wholesalers tell them. It's really the company that makes them lying to everybody, but the only remedy for that is knowing the product. How the hell can retailers be expected to know every tech spec of every item they sell?

Andria
By buying batteries from REPUTABLE sources, just like us.

I'm sure Lion Wholesale would give shops a price break for buying bulk.

I DO NOT have any heartbreak for shit head retailers. The battery game has been going on too long for ANYONE to be in the dark. Wholesalers only care about selling you shit. They got no skin in the game.
 

AndriaD

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By buying batteries from REPUTABLE sources, just like us.

I'm sure Lion Wholesale would give shops a price break for buying bulk.

I DO NOT have any heartbreak for shit head retailers. The battery game has been going on too long for ANYONE to be in the dark. Wholesalers only care about selling you shit. They got no skin in the game.

Umm... liionwholesale.com is a wholesaler....

???

Andria
 

nightshard

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But retailers only know what their wholesalers tell them. It's really the company that makes them lying to everybody, but the only remedy for that is knowing the product. How the hell can retailers be expected to know every tech spec of every item they sell?

Andria
A good salesman makes the effort to learn as much as he can about the products he's selling.

If he didn't and got burned that's his problem.

If he did and decided to ignore what he knows to make a buck and got burned that's his problem.

Selling authentics is only a part of the solution since improperly used authentics can be just as dangerous.
If I were to sell you a mech with premade 0.1 coils and a 3000 mAh 10A ICR all authentics, because I can't be bothered with understanding or caring about safety, I would still be placing a pipe bomb in your hand.
 
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AndriaD

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A good salesman makes the effort to learn as much as he can about the products he's selling.

If he didn't and got burned that's his problem.

If he did and decided to ignore what he knows to make a buck and got burned that's his problem.

Selling authentics is only a part of the solution since improperly used authentics can be just as dangerous.
If I were to sell you a mech with premade 0.1 coils and a 3000 mAh 10A ICR all authentics, because I can't be bothered with understanding or caring about safety, I would still be placing a pipe bomb in your hand.

But this brings the buyer/seller relationship into really sticky territory. If some gooberhead buys a chainsaw at Home Depot and manages to cut off one of his OWN limbs instead of the tree's, it's not the fault of the seller, it's the fault of the idiot who didn't know what he was doing. If someone in their early 20s buys a Mustang GT and wraps it around a tree.... same thing -- not the seller's fault. I really think the same is true of batteries.

The real problem is with sellers urging much-too-advanced hardware on newbie vapers -- apparently it's just not cool to start people off on Ego's anymore, nooooooo, they've gotta have megawatts, sub-zero ohms, clouds for days.... and that is just stupid. It doesn't require the exhalation of whipped cream to stay free of cigarettes. If someone wants to quit, they can quit with a cigalike -- I did, even though I hadn't even considered quitting until I actually got the thing and saw what a great substitute it was. Sure, I upgraded right away almost, within 3 wks, but that was for convenience, not massive power and clouds -- from an eRoll to a vv3 with kanger T3S.

Andria
 

freemind

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Umm... liionwholesale.com is a wholesaler....

???

Andria
Yes. A wholesaler that sells to everyone.

Also, they are battery EXPERTS. Not some wholesaler that sells tons of the "newest" shit on the market. So there is no worry about someone pushing shit batteries, so you can make a buck more on a sale.

I see this FAR too often in local shops. Buy shitty batteries cheap, so they can sell them for a buck or two more of profit. Just plain stupid.
 

nightshard

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It's also partially the fault of the consumers.
If there is a demand for shiny on the outside crappy on the inside kind of batteries, there will also be a supply.

Even those wholesalers that you love and trust sell Efests and Ultrafires and I bet they sell more Efests then Samsungs and LGs combined.
 

outwest

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I'd say it depends on if the retailer said the batteries were suitable (and they weren't) or if it's user error as to whether they would have a case. If the retailer sold counterfeit batteries in good faith (thinking they were real because of what their vendor told them) then I'd say the customer could sue the retailer and the distributor, and the retailer (or the retailer's product liability insurance co.) sue the distributor. Of course, the problem is that both parties would have a heck of a time suing a company that's located in China.

The long and short of it is, what with the mfgs. and distributors being overseas, it becomes a legal mess.
 
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AndriaD

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Yes. A wholesaler that sells to everyone.

Also, they are battery EXPERTS. Not some wholesaler that sells tons of the "newest" shit on the market. So there is no worry about someone pushing shit batteries, so you can make a buck more on a sale.

I see this FAR too often in local shops. Buy shitty batteries cheap, so they can sell them for a buck or two more of profit. Just plain stupid.

Very true. But I myself had to learn this the semi-hard way -- not by an exploding battery thank god, but by being sold counterfeits on eBay -- I had no idea, at the time I bought them, that counterfeiting batteries was even a thing. I'm sure most people have the same lack of info, if they haven't been vaping for a while, or using hi-amp batteries in some other application.

Possibly intelligence comes into play, too: when you discover that your batteries aren't really the hi-amp and brand you thought you were buying, what do you do with them? A lot might just go on using them. I wrapped the positive pole with electrical tape and took them to the battery recycle at Home Depot, since I had no farkin clue WHAT they really were, but figured they were probably just china cheapies wrapped to simulate AW batteries. Or, if the instructions of your self-contained-battery mod clearly say to use ONLY the charge cord supplied, you go ahead and use whatever charge cord hits your hand, because "they're all the same, right?" :rolleyes:

A large majority of the human race is just dumb as a bag of hammers. Do we penalize the entire industry and community for that sad fact? The REASON why so many humans nowadays are so farkin dumb is because Big Nannies have been protecting everyone from themselves, encouraging the terminally clueless to live long enough to breed and perpetuate their stupidity. If the Big Nannies would give it a rest, some of those idiots would die of their own stupidity, many before they're old enough to breed. The problem would solve itself if the Big Nannies would let it.

Andria
 

nightshard

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We talk about batteries like it's obvious, but don't forget the only batteries that most people getting into vaping know are AA Duracell and Energizer and such.
 

freemind

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Very true. But I myself had to learn this the semi-hard way -- not by an exploding battery thank god, but by being sold counterfeits on eBay -- I had no idea, at the time I bought them, that counterfeiting batteries was even a thing. I'm sure most people have the same lack of info, if they haven't been vaping for a while, or using hi-amp batteries in some other application.

Possibly intelligence comes into play, too: when you discover that your batteries aren't really the hi-amp and brand you thought you were buying, what do you do with them? A lot might just go on using them. I wrapped the positive pole with electrical tape and took them to the battery recycle at Home Depot, since I had no farkin clue WHAT they really were, but figured they were probably just china cheapies wrapped to simulate AW batteries. Or, if the instructions of your self-contained-battery mod clearly say to use ONLY the charge cord supplied, you go ahead and use whatever charge cord hits your hand, because "they're all the same, right?" :rolleyes:

A large majority of the human race is just dumb as a bag of hammers. Do we penalize the entire industry and community for that sad fact? The REASON why so many humans nowadays are so farkin dumb is because Big Nannies have been protecting everyone from themselves, encouraging the terminally clueless to live long enough to breed and perpetuate their stupidity. If the Big Nannies would give it a rest, some of those idiots would die of their own stupidity, many before they're old enough to breed. The problem would solve itself if the Big Nannies would let it.

Andria

I give you some/many people are dumb as fuck, on certain subjects.

However, as a business owner, you have no excuse for being a dumb fuck. No judge, insurer, or anyone else will allow you to feign ignorance.

I own my own business, and as such, am expected to be a professional. I know my shit about glass. I HAVE to. I have to know the proper methods of cleaning every type of glass, how to remove hard water stains, how to remove scratches and etching, etc.

If I owned a vape shop, my insurer, a judge, or anyone else for that matter, would expect me to know my shit about what I am selling. My employees are EXPECTED to be as educated too. They don't get a pass, nor should they, IMO.

If you are in business, you are expected to be a PROFESSIONAL. If you want to wander through life like an uneducated idiot, get a job in a fast food restaurant. Otherwise, time to man up and wear the big boy underwear.
 

AndriaD

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I give you some/many people are dumb as fuck, on certain subjects.

However, as a business owner, you have no excuse for being a dumb fuck. No judge, insurer, or anyone else will allow you to feign ignorance.

I own my own business, and as such, am expected to be a professional. I know my shit about glass. I HAVE to. I have to know the proper methods of cleaning every type of glass, how to remove hard water stains, how to remove scratches and etching, etc.

If I owned a vape shop, my insurer, a judge, or anyone else for that matter, would expect me to know my shit about what I am selling. My employees are EXPECTED to be as educated too. They don't get a pass, nor should they, IMO.

If you are in business, you are expected to be a PROFESSIONAL. If you want to wander through life like an uneducated idiot, get a job in a fast food restaurant. Otherwise, time to man up and wear the big boy underwear.

It sounds like yours is more of a service industry, than pure retail. Pure retail sellers are often just part-timers, kids, housewives, people looking to add a little income to their regular. Yes, ideally, at the very least the owner of a vape shop should know at least something about every product he sells... but if he expects everyone at the counter to have anything approaching his own knowledge, he'd have to pay them a lot more than he's probably willing -- or even able -- to do.

They're mostly there to smile, make nice, and ring up sales, and business owners can usually afford to pay people to do that. They mostly can't afford to have an entire sales force of experts.

Andria
 

freemind

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It sounds like yours is more of a service industry, than pure retail. Pure retail sellers are often just part-timers, kids, housewives, people looking to add a little income to their regular. Yes, ideally, at the very least the owner of a vape shop should know at least something about every product he sells... but if he expects everyone at the counter to have anything approaching his own knowledge, he'd have to pay them a lot more than he's probably willing -- or even able -- to do.

They're mostly there to smile, make nice, and ring up sales, and business owners can usually afford to pay people to do that. They mostly can't afford to have an entire sales force of experts.

Andria
Fast food doesn't pay shit either. Serve someone undercooked food, or get them sick from dirty conditions of the restaurant. See if someone gives the business owner a pass.

You'd get your ass sued off, is what you would get.

Doesn't matter if you like it, or disagree with it. A business owner is expected to be a professional in the eyes of the court.

And why would we want it any different? There is a difference in buying something from a friend/neighbor, and buying something from a business. Our expectations and the price we pay is different.
 

nightshard

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The problem with those kind of businesses is that if your workers get minimum wage they will repay you with just the bare minimum effort that won't get them fired, they may tell you that they care, but they really don't.
 

5150sick

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Shit, I'll take and under the table job at a vape shop here in Central Florida.
I'm 4 years deep in to vaping, know how to build and am very knowledgeable of the products on top of having a background in sales (even legal sales too ;))
 

5150sick

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The problem with those kind of businesses is that if your workers get minimum wage they will repay you with just the bare minimum effort that won't get them fired, they may tell you that they care, but they really don't.

I'll take minimum wage but only under the table.
 

5150sick

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r055co

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But retailers only know what their wholesalers tell them. It's really the company that makes them lying to everybody, but the only remedy for that is knowing the product. How the hell can retailers be expected to know every tech spec of every item they sell?

Andria
Retailers also need to be responsible. Local B&M I frequent refuses to sell eFest or any other shit batteries. They only carry authentic Samsung and LG. Anyone that comes in with shit like eFest they let them know that they are using pipe bombs.

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5150sick

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Then you see shit like this:

s-l1600.jpg

www.ebay.com/itm/Rig-Mod-V2-Mechanical-18650-Roughneck-Rda-Kit-Vaporizer-or-Battery-Charger-USA-/381574552809

Notice the blue ICR18650 that will blow the users face off and the cheap hybrid Rig Mod clone?

The shitty thing about this is when this does blow some kid trying to do cloud tricks' face off his douchebag lawyer will try to sue the maker of the Authentic Rig Mod.
Lawyers aren't smart enough to know what "clone" means and even if they are dipshit cloud kiddy probably doesn't know the difference all he knows is it was a "Rig Mod Dude" (Kind of like how the Lawyer in the above story mentions Kangertech as a bad battery maker even though Kanger has never made a battery) so then the authentic Rig Mod maker is in court paying a lawyer a very large sum of money to try to prove that it wasn't a "real" rig mod it was just a cheap Chinese clone to a Judge who has no idea what the fuck is going on.


Shit ends up getting unnecessarily messy when all cloud kiddy needed to do was find a different douchebag accessory to begin with.
 

nightshard

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The problem is that most people don't understand what is good and what they need.

If I were to make a survey and show 2 battery images to people off the street, I bet 99% would choose the top one.
1.jpg

Sumsung_25R.jpg


The one on top is one of those "40"A actual 10A batteries if yr interested.
 

r055co

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The problem is that most people don't understand what is good and what they need.

If I were to make a survey and show 2 battery images to people off the street, I bet 99% would choose the top one.
1.jpg

Sumsung_25R.jpg


The one on top is one of those "40"A actual 10A batteries if yr interested.
This is where sensible regulations are welcome, to hold malicious company's accountable for knowingly inflating the capability of their trash for sales. But no government chooses to just ban in order to protect big tobacco and big pharmaceutical.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
 

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