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ECC BANS ALL CLONES FROM BEING SOLD

TheDishD

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I just posted a video rant about the cease-and-desist order on the ECC for 2014 on YouTube the link to the video is down below it might just get deleted so if you want to check it out go check out my rants before it gets deleted by YouTube or someone else

Nice! Thanks for sharing your opinion big Lou and you just gained another subscriber

sent via a smartphone with a dumb operator XD
 

VaporJoe

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I just posted a video rant about the cease-and-desist order on the ECC for 2014 on YouTube the link to the video is down below it might just get deleted so if you want to check it out go check out my rants before it gets deleted by YouTube or someone else


Great video sir.. great video..
 

Hartoled

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I just posted a video rant about the cease-and-desist order on the ECC for 2014 on YouTube the link to the video is down below it might just get deleted so if you want to check it out go check out my rants before it gets deleted by YouTube or someone else


Good Video, BigLou!

I was ready to pull the trigger on a Hana and then at the last minute caught "Don't buy the Hana DNA 30" out of the corner of my eye on You Tube. I watched and heard about the poor service and then I bought my first clone, a Cloupor 30 watt box. I loved it. It killed my fear of clones and eventually I ordered more and finally got a satisfying set of vaping hardware. Any dissatisfaction that I have had has been due to hyped-up bad designs or discovering through trial and error what I like to vape, not poor craftsmanship or shoddy service from vendors. Conversely, if I had spent 500 plus bucks on a Manhattan, a Zenith and a Plume Veil, that pretty much sit there holding down papers, my attitudes about authentics would be a hell of a lot worse. Learning, for a fraction of the cost of the real deals, that "PIEYOAW!" and "She's a chuckin!" really are probably not good indications of what I will like, is saving me from giving up on the whole thing.
 

Midniteoyl

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Kryptonite TanksMatt, I truly believe that your heart was in the right place. From the few times we have talked, you seemed to be a very nice guy who is passionate about protecting the rights and hard work of companies like ours. Thank you for that.

I know you were just responding to the verbal attack you received...
I LOVE how they act like iJoy started the verbal abuse..
 

Midniteoyl

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I just posted a video rant about the cease-and-desist order on the ECC for 2014 on YouTube the link to the video is down below it might just get deleted so if you want to check it out go check out my rants before it gets deleted by YouTube or someone else

Nice rant.. Agree with it all...

Except :) the USPS is not a government company and mailing does not make it a 'federal document' :) Certified w/Signature Required mail IS considered 'proof of delivery' though.
 

Spike64

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TheDishD

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As iv said, is this because of the backlash against Kr..would they have come out with this statement if not for the general vaping public outcry..methinks not..it all seems like a PR stunt once again.

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Hartoled

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Apparently, ECC incited all of this. Even if I had had just one small rack of Ego-likes, I would be hollering that ECC issuing that ban on clones had put out the word that had hurt my business and that they conducted the entire event in a bad-faith manner with no intention of providing the venue as-advertised. Let the bodies hit the floor.
 

retrox

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I might not be the smartest cowboy in the world, but if it's my convention, I'm asking that anyone selling clones of an original manufacturer's item who is also present place a simple sign in front of their clone display informing shoppers that the original device can be found at vendor X, located at booth #Y. In this way, clones are clearly labeled as such and people can choose whether they want to shop at Target or Prada. If the clone vendor fails to comply, a sign will be placed for him by convention staff. If the vendor refuses to display the sign, then they won't be allowed back next year.

Or is that too consumer friendly? ;)
 

Hartoled

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I might not be the smartest cowboy in the world, but if it's my convention, I'm asking that anyone selling clones of an original manufacturer's item who is also present place a simple sign in front of their clone display informing shoppers that the original device can be found at vendor X, located at booth #Y. In this way, clones are clearly labeled as such and people can choose whether they want to shop at Target or Prada. If the clone vendor fails to comply, a sign will be placed for him by convention staff. If the vendor refuses to display the sign, then they won't be allowed back next year.

Or is that too consumer friendly? ;)

It might be a bit too friendly but I could definitely get with them marking each and every clone as a clone. They might spend all day explaining the term "clone", LOL, but as long as they don't claim it's the exact same only cheaper, that should pass. ECC might not be around next year to invite them if they have to pay a lot of damages, but just think how elite they would be after shelling out such big bucks!
 

TheDishD

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Now one of them has posted a letter on Phil B's FB page...he is now blaming PTSD for his actions (claiming he got PTSD from being bullied as a kid)..and saying Joe stole the vid from FB..oh dear hand the guy a shovel he might not dig himself outa this..

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Warhawk-AVG

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Now one of them has posted a letter on Phil B's FB page...he is now blaming PTSD for his actions (claiming he got PTSD from being bullied as a kid)..and saying Joe stole the vid from FB..oh dear hand the guy a shovel he might not dig himself outa this..

sent via a smartphone with a dumb operator XD
linky? or screenshot?
 

Midniteoyl

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How do you 'steal' from FB? Did he hack the account and steal a private posting? :rolleyes:
 

Warhawk-AVG

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bahahahahahaha

10665179_10202698165917764_522620809533058637_n.jpg
 

Midniteoyl

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GAWD! You guys are just gonna make me get a FB account, aren't you? The shit posted there is just too juicy to NOT comment on.. :p
 

Midniteoyl

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Someone PLEASE post the comments made here by people who were there that iJoy was NOT selling them as authentic. Proof, or it didnt happen..

Please...
 

TheDishD

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GAWD! You guys are just gonna make me get a FB account, aren't you? The shit posted there is just too juicy to NOT comment on.. :p
Come to the dark side Midniteoyl..together we can rule the galaxy..or FB lol

sent via a smartphone with a dumb operator XD
 

P1NkY

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When you tell the truth about something, you very rarely have to embellish your story.
example: This happened, then this, then this. I fucked up. I'm sorry. That is all.
When you lie, you have to keep shoveling bullshit into the story, making each successive post even looooooonger.
example: I remember when I was five and one of the other kids stole my milk... blah blah... it's Joe's fault because clonez blah blah...
 

ClonesRAuthenticReplicas

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Zamazam

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I just posted a video rant about the cease-and-desist order on the ECC for 2014 on YouTube the link to the video is down below it might just get deleted so if you want to check it out go check out my rants before it gets deleted by YouTube or someone else

epic rant and right to the point.
 
So, let me get this straight regarding the "other side of the story" on Phil B's page:

These clowns had the bright idea to film themselves "serving" iJoy, but lacked the common sense to film what would have been actual evidence of iJoy selling clones as authentics?

"I watched them sell several counterfeits as authentics at authentic prices on many pieces [... bla bla bla ...] I watched as they sold Manhattan clones for authentic prices (At $160 a piece)."
Based on those words, they had multiple chances to film an actual crime being committed... so where's the evidence? The only evidence of any misdeeds I'm seeing here (aside from inappropriate behavior) are slander in the video, followed by a libelous statement by this guy Matt.

And who the fuck is this guy?

"I do not work for any of these modders, but I do protect their work"

For real?? Do you protect their work professionally, or merely as a hobby?
FOAD
 

TheDishD

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Lol FOAD..now i have not heard that term for awhile..good call lol

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ajaymes2001

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Wow, I'm glad the debate about clone vs. authentic is about done, makes hill bean difference to me, neither side will sway me. I have both. But, I'm not paying $200 or more for a mech mod no matter how authentic it is or who put their name on it. Well, that's not entirely fair, I only use regulated mods. I wouldn't pay hundreds for a regulated mod, either. Every last mod I own is authentic. My collection of attys, not so much. I use authentic Kangers, I have a good few, but my RBA/RDAs are all clones. Why? Kangers are reasonably priced for novice vapers, most authentic RBA/RDAs are not. BTW, with the exception of my Magma clones, my clones have no logos.
As far as the apology...too late never works once backlash has occurred. I read Kryptonite's and I call BS. Nothing like having to try to distance one's self from the scene, plausible deniability does not work here. I will not ever purchase any of their products. As far as Mike's apology...total BS. Total. Fallout Mods, I also will not ever purchase from you. That's my opinion, everybody is entitled to their own, I'm going back to bed, now that I've read through these fun-filled 27 pages.
 

creedthevaper

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There are several funny things about all of this clone war stuff. First off there are a lot of so called legit mod makers that have stolen the logos they use, this is a FACT. secondley it is just a fucking tube granted there are some design differences but for the most part it is a tube, therefore to simple a device to even get a paten on. So just for shits and giggles lets say you were able to get a paten or a copywrite or a any such protection for your device. It wont help there is no copywrite or paten agreement with china so they can copy it anyway. the people who scream the loudest about this have hundreds of chinese products in there homes because we don't make that shit anymore in this country because you wouldn't pay what it took to make it here and they had to go elssewhere. What a fucking crock of shit these people are spewing. It is a fact that having the clones is actually a way to bring business to the legit mod maker but for the most part if people had to $200.00 for a copper tube they would jut start making mods them selves. I have made aproximatley 100 mods in my vaping journey and some of them cost about $5.00 to build. The elitest need to shut the fuck up and let people buy what they want. I have everal legit mods and several clones attys included. But I would never try and tell someone that they can't vape unless it is on a legit device. That reminds me there are about 200 different makers of the EGO battery how come noone bitches about that, and by the way it was stolen too the first one was made by a company in itally. So get your shit straight about this and let people alone.
 

fuzzyone

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This was posted up on Phil Busardo's wall about the whole ordeal and their apology.


Phil Busardo
September 10 at 8:14am · Edited ·
When you get a story, it's always good to get the other side of it as well. I was contacted by Matt regarding the "Cease and Desist" letter delivery video. Matt respectfully requested that I tell his side of the story, which I gladly accepted and agreed to post here.

Thank you Matt for telling your side. Next time... remain calm brother, sit back, and let THEM hang themselves. Let's use some of that energy and anger and direct it at the ones who have the ability to do the most damage... the FDA!

Here you go...

"To the vaping community, I was the one that recorded the incident at ECC, and I am also in the video. First off, let me apologize for my friend and myself to the community and Kryptonite Tanks (Who I am not associated with) for our behavior. I look back at the video and realize we acted unprofessionally and in bad form. If we could go back, we would have done it differently and just served iJoy the papers and walked away. There is a side to the story that you haven't heard though, which is the actual events that occurred. What actually took place at ECC with the iJOy booth and staff was absurd, as I watched them sell several counterfeits as authentics at authentic prices on many pieces. They have reportedly been an issue since day one according to several reports. I do correspond and communicate with many authentic modders in the industry, and to add to this, you must understand that ECC had a no clones policy in their contract that all vendors signed and agreed to, to my understanding.The iJoy booth had been approached on many occasions over the course of three days. The first I heard of what was going on is when I came across Jay Bo, the creator of the TOBH, who was visibly upset. I asked him what happened? He told me he approached the iJoy booth because they were selling clone TOBH atomizers and the TOBH creator asked that they be removed from display, and the manager of the iJoy booth responded with "What are you going to do motherfu**er? Call the f**king cops!". So i decided to look in to this. I walked by and inspected their booth. Now, I do not work for any of these modders, but I do protect their work and I had caught wind that the iJoy booth were selling clones as authentics, which now makes them counterfeits (Actually, any clone with exact replication of the original's trademarked logos is a counterfeit by definition of the Merriam-Webster Dictionary). I watched as they sold Manhattan clones for authentic prices (At $160 a piece). The only authentic equipment on their table were the actual iJoy products. I looked at their table and saw TOBH clones, Mutant clones (Including a copper Mutant clone exactly like the one that exploded at Vape Blast), Stillare clones, a Skeleton Key clone, 454 Big Block clones, King clones, Patriot clones and many others. Now, all of the ones I listed except the Skeleton Clone were clones of authentics that were being sold at ECC by the actual makers themselves. I decided to inform the owner of Fallout Mods that this booth was selling copper Mutant clones as authentics. He decided to visit the booth himself. I followed to listen to what was said and see what happened. The owner of Fallout Mods and his friend approached the booth and picked up the copper Mutant clone and asked the employee at the iJoy if they were real. The owner replied yes. The owner of Fallout informed them that they were selling clones and requested that the Mutant clones be removed, which they did not comply, then one of the other employees that you see in the video (The younger male) decided to be cocky and inquire to buy 5000 units from the owner of Fallout mods, to which the Fallout Mods owner denied on premise that he would not sell tom someone that is selling counterfeits of his product. On our way from the booth my friend and I spotted the Stillare, Patriot, and 454 clones. I knew the Kryptonite Tanks booth was 4 rows down, I informed them that the iJoy booth was carrying clones on their product. They happened to have their attorney on hand, who proceeded to to fill out a Cease and Desist order on the spot. For reference: "Individuals and companies can also issue cease and desist orders directly, usually using a lawyer to draft the document so that it will adhere to the law. These documents typically threaten the subject with legal action unless he or she ceases an activity. A company, for instance, might issue such an order to someone who was releasing trade secrets, or an individual might write up a cease and desist letter against someone who is engaging in harassment. When someone receives a cease and desist order, whether it is from a court or an individual, they should ask a lawyer to review it. The lawyer can study the terms of the order to determine whether or not it is valid. If it is invalid, the lawyer can challenge it, although temporary adherence to the document is usually recommended to show that the target of the order is not being belligerent or uncooperative. ". Now, my friend and I, along with the attorney, went to the iJoy booth and my friend served them papers, and in response to being served, the manager of the iJoy booth tore up the Cease and Desist order, so we notified security who was actually present. The attorney informed security that she needed their names and booth number for legal record. At this point we followed her back to the Kryptonite booth and she filled out another Cease and Desist order so once again my friend could deliver it. My friend and I headed on our way to deliver the C&D order which is where the video starts. What happened was not what was supposed to go down. As we approached the table, the manager of the booth told me to "Stop f*cking recording and get the f*ck out of here", and my friend put the C&D order on the display table at the booth. At this point they kept yelling "F*ck you" and called us "pieces of sh*t". This got the best of us and we lost composure. At this point the younger employess grabbed the Cease and Desist letter and crumbled it up and attempted to throw it at me, which at that point I did point it out that it is considered assault. Their response was "I'm going to kick your fat ass". Now, due to the fact that I was bullied as a kid and throughout my teenage years, I developed PTSD, which is triggered by threats of physical violence ans well as actual physical violence against me. I completely lost my composure at this point. I called them out for everything. I called them out for selling clones at a no clone event, to which they replied "They aren't cl;ones" and you here me respond with "You're right, they are counterfeits". At that point that is admission that they blatantly lied to deceive the consumer in to believing that they were buying authentic items. This kept escalating until; we walked away, and yes, we were still infuriated about the blatant deceitfulness of the staff at the iJoy booth and disregard for the contract they signed and for the modders that paid to display their work and the rules others had to follow. I do apoligize for my reaction and should not have fed in to their threats and lose my composure the way I did, but I do not take being threatened lightly. Now, the video was circulated due to theft of my copyrighted material (The video that has been circulated) whichy is copyrighted under my photography company. It was accidentaly uploaded to a private Facebook page, which at this point was downloaded without my consent or expressed written permissiont by Joe Petner of VaperJoe's, in which he, in turn, uploaded to Youtube, LiveLeak and MegaUpload., which in turn he posted to his Vaping Underground page to spread a false version of what happened (He credits a mystery source and has screen caps of private conversations) which has resulted in several threats of violence made towards me. All I want is for everyone to know what really happened. I did not mean for a negative image to be brought on the vaping community, but I did not want to see consumers continue to be ripped off and misled in to believing they were buying an authentic product and being taken advantage of. I have been a long time supporter of this industry and the consumers and the people that it has saved, I have been an active activist for vaper's rights and had a major p[art in removing over regulation from San Bernardino County which seeked to ban electronic cigarettes (I really dislike that description of vaporizers). I am a member of CASAA and Vaping Militia and Stand And Vape and several pro-vaping organizations, the last thing I would want is to damage the reputation of this community. This wasn't about clones vs. authentics, this was about a company committing fraud against the consumer. Respectfully, Matthew W."
 
Each time i read this i find more wrongs than rights..
You're absolutely right... how about, if nothing else and this guy has truly taken it upon himself to be the 'Vaped Crusader,' to dish out justice and protect the innocent -- looking out for fellow vapers and letting them know "hey brother, that's not authentic, I think this guy's ripping your off' when he allegedly observed clones being sold "for authentic prices (At $160 a piece)."

But no, as has been said before, merely a bunch of asshats trying to become vape-famous, and now it backfired on them. That whole video kind of reminds me of when idiot kids film themselves vandalizing property, etc. Immature.


Edit: Oh, and I just realised this post is more "1337" than those clowns will ever be... lmfao
 
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MikeL

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There are several funny things about all of this clone war stuff. First off there are a lot of so called legit mod makers that have stolen the logos they use, this is a FACT. secondley it is just a fucking tube granted there are some design differences but for the most part it is a tube, therefore to simple a device to even get a paten on. So just for shits and giggles lets say you were able to get a paten or a copywrite or a any such protection for your device. It wont help there is no copywrite or paten agreement with china so they can copy it anyway. the people who scream the loudest about this have hundreds of chinese products in there homes because we don't make that shit anymore in this country because you wouldn't pay what it took to make it here and they had to go elssewhere. What a fucking crock of shit these people are spewing. It is a fact that having the clones is actually a way to bring business to the legit mod maker but for the most part if people had to $200.00 for a copper tube they would jut start making mods them selves. I have made aproximatley 100 mods in my vaping journey and some of them cost about $5.00 to build. The elitest need to shut the fuck up and let people buy what they want. I have everal legit mods and several clones attys included. But I would never try and tell someone that they can't vape unless it is on a legit device. That reminds me there are about 200 different makers of the EGO battery how come noone bitches about that, and by the way it was stolen too the first one was made by a company in itally. So get your shit straight about this and let people alone.
Your so full of shit it makes your eyes brown. Try using this line of reason in any other industry, say Lebron James kicks. Create and sell a pair of "clone" Lebron James shoes and see what shit hits the fan. Maybe you can burn and label a few "clone" cd's or dvd's and sell them, I am sure the music or movie industry wont mind. "..to simple a device to even get a patent.." REALLY, are you that fucking cheap, stupid and self centered? REALLY? Lets take a look at a "simple tube" and call it a hypodermic needle, they all look alike, TOO SIMPLE to patent, and yet most of them are and if the patent has run out the "Brand Name" or "Trade Mark" has not. You are only trying to justify immoral actions, in the name of stupidity, using every diversion you can think of in a desperate attempt to rebrand theft and piracy. You are a true fuck!
 

Midniteoyl

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Your so full of shit it makes your eyes brown. Try using this line of reason in any other industry, say Lebron James kicks. Create and sell a pair of "clone" Lebron James shoes and see what shit hits the fan. Maybe you can burn and label a few "clone" cd's or dvd's and sell them, I am sure the music or movie industry wont mind. "..to simple a device to even get a patent.." REALLY, are you that fucking cheap, stupid and self centered? REALLY? Lets take a look at a "simple tube" and call it a hypodermic needle, they all look alike, TOO SIMPLE to patent, and yet most of them are and if the patent has run out the "Brand Name" or "Trade Mark" has not. You are only trying to justify immoral actions, in the name of stupidity, using every diversion you can think of in a desperate attempt to rebrand theft and piracy. You are a true fuck!
Wow....

And yet, show a patent on a mechanical mod..
 

MikeL

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Wow....

And yet, show a patent on a mechanical mod..
So, ethics means nothing to you and your sole goal is to set a precedent that will somehow legitimize the theft of protected property.
 

ajaymes2001

Member For 5 Years
Oh, another douche bag Elitist that joined this weekend. Welcome to the forum and be ready for some fun.

Full Definition of CLONE
1
a : the aggregate of genetically identical cells or organisms asexually produced by a single progenitor cell or organism

b : an individual grown from a single somatic cell or cell nucleus and genetically identical to it

c : a group of replicas of all or part of a macromolecule and especially DNA <clones of identical recombinant DNA sequences>
2
: one that appears to be a copy of an original form : duplicate<a clone of a personal computer>
AND
Full Definition of COUNTERFEIT
1
: made in imitation of something else with intent to deceive : forged <counterfeit money>
2
a : insincere, feigned <counterfeit sympathy>

b : imitation <counterfeit Georgian houses>
 

fq06

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So, ethics means nothing to you and your sole goal is to set a precedent that will somehow legitimize the theft of protected property.

I think that's the point... it's not protected property.

If you personally don't want to support the clone makers don't but it is a free market and if the cloners are not doing anything illegal, there's nothing to stop it.

I appreciate the quality of an authentic. But I have other hobbies that cost a ton of money. I can vape on the cheap with an igo but its not enjoyable. I want a mech with a rta or rda.

My other hobbies dictate that I am buying clones if I want a great vapeing experience. And when paying $200 for a metal tube with threads, cap & a button... it's a hobby, you have moved past quitting smoking.

Are clones perfect? No, but I like to tinker and work with my hands. I would prefer to buy a $13 clone mod that needs the threads chased taking 15 minutes of my time as opposed to buying the $200 original... if you can even get it.

Ethics...
How about the authentic makers doing limited runs to keep it exclusive justifying the price?
 
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Hartoled

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Cloners help the authentic makers a lot. Clones often perpetuate and immortalize poor designs that nobody would have wanted if they hadn't been overpriced. Nobody complains much about a 30 dollar piece and they are a lot more likely to just void the warranties and fix the problems, showing the modders how to do it better. If only the 300 dollar versions had been around to compare with, a lot of these guys would have only been remembered for ripping people off. I have a clone or two that I like and would love to buy the originals. But I know where they come from, what they are really worth and, frankly, they are going to have to make me a deal, not just sit there laughing at the dumb American who overpays for things.

A terrible sin, Envy, has been averted. Bring on the deals!
 

Tripster

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I'd rather spend $125+ on blades then Authentic mods since I can actually use the metal for what it's designed for vs just holding a $125+ steel battery tube. If I had a video camera, I'd attempt to destroy mods to see how well they really are built. Believe it or not but I have had extremely affordable made to order (talking under $100) knives destroy $500+ blades. Within the Blade Community there has always been a war like this but it goes deeper. Authentic Vs Clone Vs Mass Produced Vs Made To Order Vs Blem Vs Homemade Vs Custom and the fact that these things can kill you or severely injure you if the QC isn't Tier 1.

Honestly, I don't care for Tier 1 mods for the fact that you will merely and only using that mod to hold a battery or 2 and vaping with it vs using it as a tool/weapon. If I were to buy a mod that was made out of scrap/surplus steel/metal and it was cheap, I'd be fine with it as long as it works and the voltage drop is minimal. Hell, I'd be fine with a mod that was welded as well.

Rant//
 

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