Efest battery safety

[Mesh]

I've been vaping for years but I'm pretty new to sub-ohming and rebuilding. Does anyone know what the continuous amp rating is for this purple Efest battery: IMR 18650, 2900mAH, 3.7V, Li-Mn, 35A?

I can't seem to find any conclusive information online.

I build at no less 0.3 ohms, and I rarely vape at above 50 watts. Would that battery be safe at those numbers in a Sigelei 75 watt, for example?

Any advice much appreciated!

 

[yamooo]

While regulated mods will only fire what they can handle, I suggest not buying these batteries and buy Samsung 25R

 

[Mesh]

While regulated mods will only fire what they can handle, I suggest not buying these batteries and buy Samsung 25R

Thanks. Any reasons in particular you wouldn't buy them?

 

[yamooo]

Thanks. Any reasons in particular you wouldn't buy them?

Because they are probably some rewraps of another battery. They are definitely not 35A CDR. In general only buy LG, Samsung, and Sony for batteries because they are the safest ones.

 

[Mesh]

Efest are a respected manufacturer of battery chargers, I own two of them.
But they do not manufacture batteries. They are one of the leaders in the practice of rewrapping others' batteries, labeling them with inflated potentially dangerous specifications and selling them at a marked-up premium price.

There are no 18650 batteries with a 35A rating and 2900 mAh capacity.
Could it be a 20A battery? Quite likely. Less? Possibly.
Their previous usual 2800 mAh cell was generally thought to be a rewrapped LG HE2 I believe, but the 2900 item is new. Not sure what they're doing. Have Efest contracted a manufacturer? We'll find out soon I expect.

In the meantime... you couldn't pay me to use an Efest battery. Just my opinion.

Thanks guys. I'll get some appropriate Samsungs or LGs with my next order. In the meantime, probably best to err on the side of caution and treat these Efests as though they were 10-15 amp batteries.

 

[Whiskey]

Moved to battery area

 

[Barbara E.]

My son runs his setup right at those same specs and has never had any sort of problem with the efest 18650 purple batteries. That's all he uses.

To be fair, we have a store and only carry efest batteries - for one big reason. Yes, efest does not manufacture their own batteries, they re-wrap other batteries. And I've heard lots of people say 'why should I pay a couple extra dollars for a label when I can just buy the same batteries direct'. And I'll also agree that there are equally good (maybe a bit better) batteries out there.

But the problem is making sure the ones you get are 'real'. I've seen dozens of fake batteries come through our door. I know where I can get wrappers that look awfully close to the Samsung 25R batteries. (Close enough to fool a casual user.) And I know there are people out there getting these wrappers and putting them on lower-spec batteries and passing them off as the real thing.

Efest batteries have an authentication code you can check to verify that they actually came from efest. So I can be confident that they are at least 'pretty good' batteries - maybe not the 'best', but pretty close. (Again, we've never had any sort of problem with them).

Yes, 'buy from reputable sellers'. But it's not always easy to tell if someone is 'reputable'. And even reputable sellers have been fooled. There's no third-party way to make sure the Samsung and Sony batteries out there are 'real'.

That's why we stick with efest.

 

[Jimi]

I have a few Efest batteries also, take them down to .35 and have never had a problem with them.

 

[Jon@LiionWholesale]

We've got some preliminary testing that shows this battery at least in its first few cycles looks a lot like the LG HG2, which is a 20A battery. It may even be a rewrapped HG2. Therefore 20A looks like a pretty safe bet although it performs better at something like 15A or below. This is one of our highest priority testing writeups to come out soon (this month if not over the next week) giving more detail on how this battery performs.

Yes, 'buy from reputable sellers'. But it's not always easy to tell if someone is 'reputable'. And even reputable sellers have been fooled. There's no third-party way to make sure the Samsung and Sony batteries out there are 'real'.

This is the whole reason our company was formed. Any battery that can't be bought direct is tested extensively to make sure it meets all the specs including the very high discharge ones. We're probably the only company out there that does this though.

 

[Mooch]

We've got some preliminary testing that shows this battery at least in its first few cycles looks a lot like the LG HG2, which is a 20A battery. It may even be a rewrapped HG2. Therefore 20A looks like a pretty safe bet although it performs better at something like 15A or below. This is one of our highest priority testing writeups to come out soon (this month if not over the next week) giving more detail on how this battery performs.



This is the whole reason our company was formed. Any battery that can't be bought direct is tested extensively to make sure it meets all the specs including the very high discharge ones. We're probably the only company out there that does this though.

^ ^ ^ This!
I've spoken to Jon about his testing and was impressed. He donated cells for my testing and will only carry authentic ones. I haven't seen another company spending this much attention, backed by the necessary knowledge, to stock good batteries.

 

[yamooo]

My son runs his setup right at those same specs and has never had any sort of problem with the efest 18650 purple batteries. That's all he uses.

To be fair, we have a store and only carry efest batteries - for one big reason. Yes, efest does not manufacture their own batteries, they re-wrap other batteries. And I've heard lots of people say 'why should I pay a couple extra dollars for a label when I can just buy the same batteries direct'. And I'll also agree that there are equally good (maybe a bit better) batteries out there.

But the problem is making sure the ones you get are 'real'. I've seen dozens of fake batteries come through our door. I know where I can get wrappers that look awfully close to the Samsung 25R batteries. (Close enough to fool a casual user.) And I know there are people out there getting these wrappers and putting them on lower-spec batteries and passing them off as the real thing.

Efest batteries have an authentication code you can check to verify that they actually came from efest. So I can be confident that they are at least 'pretty good' batteries - maybe not the 'best', but pretty close. (Again, we've never had any sort of problem with them).

Yes, 'buy from reputable sellers'. But it's not always easy to tell if someone is 'reputable'. And even reputable sellers have been fooled. There's no third-party way to make sure the Samsung and Sony batteries out there are 'real'.

That's why we stick with efest.

I am sorry but that is an extremely stupid reason to put your life and property at risk. Check out illumn.com, www.lightningvapes.com, www.wakeandvape.com. And even Fasttech! All of them sell authentic. It is not that tough to find them. Since you are a retailer, you can buy them off FT at wholesale price.

 

[Barbara E.]

I am sorry but that is an extremely stupid reason to put your life and property at risk. Check out illumn.com, www.lightningvapes.com, www.wakeandvape.com. And even Fasttech! All of them sell authentic. It is not that tough to find them. Since you are a retailer, you can buy them off FT at wholesale price.

I have no idea what you're talking about but you may wish to re-read my post - you must have mis-read something. And, in case you didn't know, going around calling people 'extremely stupid' is not very nice.

 

[Jon@LiionWholesale]

We should get one thing straight. Under normal conditions Efests can handle their ratings. This is actually required for them to be certified for air shipping. So for example the Efest 35A battery can in fact handle 35A continuous, at least in a lab.

BUT, if it's run like that, it will get very little run time due to voltage sag and the cell will lose some capacity for future discharges. It'll also get pretty hot. So I would never recommend actually doing it, but it's unlikely to be a serious safety issue. Are you flirting with danger more than you should be because the cell is basically completely tapped out? Probably. Are you getting horrible battery performance? Yes. Are you making an instant bomb like some insinuate here? Very, very unlikely. Especially since these are IMR cells.

Don't get me wrong, I hate that the ratings are so unrealistic on the Chinese cells which is part of why we push the non-rewrapped cells over Efest but at the same time selling Efest or another rewrapped cell is reasonable and I don't think a shop should be judged for carrying them. Efest batteries are all quality cells, just over-rated. I would sincerely hope that all of these shops educate their customers as to what levels they should actually be used at though - if they sell them recommending 35A or whatever's marked on the label then that's a different story.

I also want to clarify that this is very different than all the low quality chinese manufacturers that I actually do consider unsafe - Trustfire, etc. If a vape shop carries those then that's a big problem.

 

[Barbara E.]

Thanks Jon. I started writing a response but got distracted - but you explained things much better than I could have.

(I'm about to send you a PM regarding your batteries.)

 

[Mooch]

We should get one thing straight. Under normal conditions Efests can handle their ratings. This is actually required for them to be certified for air shipping. So for example the Efest 35A battery can in fact handle 35A continuous, at least in a lab.

BUT, if it's run like that, it will get very little run time due to voltage sag and the cell will lose some capacity for future discharges. It'll also get pretty hot. So I would never recommend actually doing it, but it's unlikely to be a serious safety issue. Are you flirting with danger more than you should be because the cell is basically completely tapped out? Probably. Are you getting horrible battery performance? Yes. Are you making an instant bomb like some insinuate here? Very, very unlikely. Especially since these are IMR cells.

Don't get me wrong, I hate that the ratings are so unrealistic on the Chinese cells which is part of why we push the non-rewrapped cells over Efest but at the same time selling Efest or another rewrapped cell is reasonable and I don't think a shop should be judged for carrying them. Efest batteries are all quality cells, just over-rated. I would sincerely hope that all of these shops educate their customers as to what levels they should actually be used at though - if they sell them recommending 35A or whatever's marked on the label then that's a different story.

I also want to clarify that this is very different than all the low quality chinese manufacturers that I actually do consider unsafe - Trustfire, etc. If a vape shop carries those then that's a big problem.

I agree. While I'm angry as hell about the exaggerated ratings, some of the rewrapped batteries aren't bad, often having a 20A rating.

Just a quick note about the shipping safety certifications (UN38.3, EN62133, etc.), the cells can vent or burst and still pass the tests. They're worried about thermal runaway so batteries just aren't allowed to explode or ignite.

 

[PaulS]

I agree Jon. Efest might not be the best ( I don't use them in my dual 18650 mech unregulated) but they are finer in a regulated mod. I heard the same BS about Imren batteries not being safe. It is knowing what to use on which device - you need to educate yourself. If I'm vaping a device at 17w I want a battery that has a higher MaH - I mean why not. That does not mean I'm using that battery on an unregulated phillipino mod.

I also can feel when my atty and mod are getting hot. When you chain vape at higher wattages you should pay attention and stop when the device is getting too hot. This is common sense. I had this conversation the other day here - someone said do not use a hybrid mech mod. Well why not? Just know that you need a proper atty for it and a proper battery. The issue was a noob could not properly use it. Well, educate the noob. Tell him how to use it properly. I recommend SMPL as a first mech mod all the time. But I explain how to use it as well.

We as a community are too often running scared. I get it. Those in power want to shut us down. The answer is education not exaggerated risk assessments - like nickel is dangerous etc. Of course this is just my take on it.

 

[scarecrowjenkins]

Thanks guys. I'll get some appropriate Samsungs or LGs with my next order. In the meantime, probably best to err on the side of caution and treat these Efests as though they were 10-15 amp batteries.

I am with everyone here, i wouldn't purchase em. But they should be plenty safe to use in a regulated device until your samsung/lg replacements arrive. Its when you use them on a mechanical device that they become suspect you should be able to run them in any regulated device at your normal settings though-most devices have every manner of safety feature imaginable for that very reason.

 

[NemesisVaper]

If people already have efest, AWT, Imren etc I'll happily chat with them about safe use etc. There's no way I'd ever recommend someone buy some when they don't already have them though.

I agree that they're fine if you know what's actually under the label however, everyone on this forum is in the minority. Many vapers dont read about stuff on the Internet, don't read forums and the only point of call is a Vape shop. If it's a good shop then they'll pass on the knowledge. However we've had Vape shop staff in this sub forum before swearing that the 40A cell they sell is legit, then going ape shit when told, it's probably a decent 20A battery.

People in general aren't interested in learning more if they don't think they need to. To them if it says so on the label it must be right. Had to confiscated a battery from a work mate because it was dangerous..... 4.4A limit in a 30W box.... Stupid, and he had no idea it was potentially dangerous! A 4.4A unprotected ICR. Before he showed it me, all he was interested in was a "bigger" battery.

Not slamming Vape shops for stocking efest and I understand why. Can't just rely on education though, battery wholesalers need to help out too by labeling them with the same specs as the actual manufacturer where possible. Look at Aw, they made a great reputation for themselves by grading and in some cases under rating cells.

 

[NemesisVaper]

Just had to add, I gave the guy I took the 4.4A "Varta" battery from one of my 25Rs. He's ordered two more so when they come to me I'll keep one, charge one and give it to him in the twin plastic case.

No big deal to me I had 10 spares in my bag. Still get the feeling he doesn't really understand how important an amp rating can be, and if he actually cares.... I just couldn't let him carry I using it. If I'd have let him keep it I know for a fact he'd have carried on using it. We've got a batyery recycling box at work, but he'd probably fish it out if there lol! I'll pop it in the one at my local supermarket when I go past.

 

[yamooo]

I have no idea what you're talking about but you may wish to re-read my post - you must have mis-read something. And, in case you didn't know, going around calling people 'extremely stupid' is not very nice.

Nah man, I read and understood your post very well. As a retailer, selling people shitty batteries is not very nice either. Think about how you are putting people's life in danger.

 

[yamooo]

We should get one thing straight. Under normal conditions Efests can handle their ratings. This is actually required for them to be certified for air shipping. So for example the Efest 35A battery can in fact handle 35A continuous, at least in a lab.

BUT, if it's run like that, it will get very little run time due to voltage sag and the cell will lose some capacity for future discharges. It'll also get pretty hot. So I would never recommend actually doing it, but it's unlikely to be a serious safety issue. Are you flirting with danger more than you should be because the cell is basically completely tapped out? Probably. Are you getting horrible battery performance? Yes. Are you making an instant bomb like some insinuate here? Very, very unlikely. Especially since these are IMR cells.

Don't get me wrong, I hate that the ratings are so unrealistic on the Chinese cells which is part of why we push the non-rewrapped cells over Efest but at the same time selling Efest or another rewrapped cell is reasonable and I don't think a shop should be judged for carrying them. Efest batteries are all quality cells, just over-rated. I would sincerely hope that all of these shops educate their customers as to what levels they should actually be used at though - if they sell them recommending 35A or whatever's marked on the label then that's a different story.

I also want to clarify that this is very different than all the low quality chinese manufacturers that I actually do consider unsafe - Trustfire, etc. If a vape shop carries those then that's a big problem.

Do you perform tests on these batteries to actually figure out how they perform?

 

[NemesisVaper]

Jon has some good info on his site in his blog. He's doing more tests on recent cells soon. The two efest cells he tested against a VTC4 did pretty well. He doesn't have a test up if the 2500mAh "35A" but that one has been done so many times, there's loads of info out there for that one.

Believe me, I'd rather someone have been using an efest than that 4.4A cell my mate Jay pulled out of his IPV Mini....

The ratings can be taken as being dangerous but the batteries themselves for the most part are relatively decent. If they rated them honestly, that coupled with the authenticity sticker would be a compelling reason for newer vapers to buy them. As it stands I don't recommend them, but even at 35A in a mech nobody's going to get their face blown off. There's always a chance of a substandard cell getting through though I guess. Much prefer to put my faith in the top OEM s, they risk assess the he'll out of their stuff rather than push for "moar Ampz".

 

[Jon@LiionWholesale]

Do you perform tests on these batteries to actually figure out how they perform?

Yes. Very soon going to be posting some in-depth reviews including some of our test data.

 

[yamooo]

Yes. Very soon going to be posting some in-depth reviews including some of our test data.

Look at what this guy had to say about Efest 35A.

https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/f...ch-test-results-a-20a-2300mah-battery.694589/

 

[Jon@LiionWholesale]

Look at what this guy had to say about Efest 35A.

https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/f...ch-test-results-a-20a-2300mah-battery.694589/

Yep. That exactly matches with our testing. I disagree with the part about it getting close to venting though, simply because the voltage sags so much at 35A that it only stays on for a very short period before hitting the low voltage cutoff so it doesn't get a chance to get quite that hot.

I admit we've only tested them to 30A though...I don't really feel a need to push them to 35.

 

[Mesh]

Lots of great advice and info here. Does anyone know if regulated mods factor in battery amps in any way, or are they not quite so intelligent yet?

 

[Jon@LiionWholesale]

Lots of great advice and info here. Does anyone know if regulated mods factor in battery amps in any way, or are they not quite so intelligent yet?

what do you mean? If you mean are they smart enough to see a battery's internal resistance and drop the load accordingly....that's an interesting idea but I don't think any have the capability to do that. As I mentioned their low voltage cutoff keeps things from being too crazy since a battery being overloaded will just put out a super low voltage and should hit the cutoff and get shut off. But if one is just being overtaxed a bit I don't think any are smart enough to know.

Honestly the best way to do that would be if they had a temperature sensor. If the battery compartment is getting too hot, then shut off. Do any have that?

 

[Mesh]

what do you mean? If you mean are they smart enough to see a battery's internal resistance and drop the load accordingly....that's an interesting idea but I don't think any have the capability to do that. As I mentioned their low voltage cutoff keeps things from being too crazy since a battery being overloaded will just put out a super low voltage and should hit the cutoff and get shut off. But if one is just being overtaxed a bit I don't think any are smart enough to know.

Honestly the best way to do that would be if they had a temperature sensor. If the battery compartment is getting too hot, then shut off. Do any have that?

Yeah, I have no idea. I can say though that I've been using these "35 amp" Efests in the Sigelei 75w for a couple of weeks now and I've noticed no heating up whatsoever (and I chain vape much of the time). That said, though, my builds have been very modest - currently 0.43 ohms at 48 watts. I'm getting a taste for this sub-ohming experience and I'll probably try lower ohms in the future. In those cases, I can't say I'd feel comfortable with a re-wrapped battery company that intentionally tries to mislead the buyer.

 

[Slurp812]

Good quality cells like the 25r's and the HE2/HE4's are dirt cheap. Why not?

 

[yamooo]

Good quality cells like the 25r's and the HE2/HE4's are dirt cheap. Why not?

They are actually cheaper than all the rewraps haha. That is what I do not understand. Why even entertain other products when you have cheaper and better options.

 

[VapinChevy]

I ALWAYS Caution Everyone I talk to about batteries, and I'll definitely agree with what was stated. Batteries that are "31A +" DON'T exist/False Advertising! The NEW Efest 35A 2800mah are explosive. I've seen a few vids on youtube, where a guy had a regulated box & pushed the efest at 14A and it vented! I ONLY Recommend LG/Samsungs/Sony's

 

[Jon@LiionWholesale]

I ALWAYS Caution Everyone I talk to about batteries, and I'll definitely agree with what was stated. Batteries that are "31A +" DON'T exist/False Advertising! The NEW Efest 35A 2800mah are explosive. I've seen a few vids on youtube, where a guy had a regulated box & pushed the efest at 14A and it vented! I ONLY Recommend LG/Samsungs/Sony's

I did watch that video, the guy was pretty clueless and I bet that battery was abused. We tested those batteries way beyond 14A, even to 30A, and didn't get any to vent. Again similar to Efest's other 35A I wouldn't recommend anyone use it at more than maybe 20A or so but the whole venting at 14A thing was a fluke. Either it was abused or maybe it's possible it was a defective battery.

Should also note that even in that case, the vent was pretty harmless (which is a good thing because that guy was like "hey let's hold the venting battery up to my face!"). Clearly it's an IMR battery with well designed vents.

Yeah, I have no idea. I can say though that I've been using these "35 amp" Efests in the Sigelei 75w for a couple of weeks now and I've noticed no heating up whatsoever (and I chain vape much of the time). That said, though, my builds have been very modest - currently 0.43 ohms at 48 watts. I'm getting a taste for this sub-ohming experience and I'll probably try lower ohms in the future. In those cases, I can't say I'd feel comfortable with a re-wrapped battery company that intentionally tries to mislead the buyer.

Exactly, at 48W it's an awesome battery, as we've been saying, comparable to HE2 and 25R. The only issue with Efest is the ratings are really too high but that's true of every single Chinese company. At least with Efest they're good batteries underneath.