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Fatality RTA 28mm triple coil build

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_evil twin_
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Haven't built w/3 coils so I have wonders...
There's room
Fatality.png
Parallel, so 3 @ .41ea. lands around .14 ?
Will the middle one with longer legs ramp as good as the other 2?
 

Carambrda

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It doesn't work particularly well, as the middle one gets next to no airflow in comparison. Building the middle one to higher ohms to try to compensate for this, doesn't eliminate the root cause of the problem.
 

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What's the root cause of not working particularly well?
Provided the RTA has top/bottom afc which you already know and maybe even own(ed) one, and altho the 3id coils in mind appear to fit while allowing ample af - or the id can be adjusted - what else beside getting them to ramp evenly? And quickly?
ft.png
 
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Carambrda

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What's the root cause of not working particularly well?
Provided the RTA has top/bottom afc which you already know and maybe even own(ed) one, and altho the 3id coils in mind appear to fit while allowing ample af - or the id can be adjusted - what else beside getting them to ramp evenly? And quickly?
View attachment 170190
The thing about the Fatality M25 RTA is that the bottom airflow is just far too restrictive to be able to properly use it like that. I never owned one because the 24mm Reload RTA (I own four of 'em) with 27/36 Ni80 aliens at 5 wraps 2.5mm ID dual coil at .11 ohms on a single battery mech has IME noticeably better flavor in direct comparison to it, and, this is despite the M25 does have pretty excellent flavor, also IME. Granted, the M25 has more build space than the (24mm) Reload so the latter RTA is limited to 2.5mm ID coils. But then, that's why I also own an Isolation RTA. With 30/36 Ni80 aliens at 6 wraps 3.5mm ID dual coil at .32 ohms in that one, on a stacked mech it too outperforms the M25... noticeably, again IME. Both the Reload and the Isolation vape more like an RDA in terms of the type of vape experience I get from them.

For the sake of reference, I'm an RDA guy with a passion for high end authentics and high powered FLAVOR chasing DTL mech setups of various types and sizes─ranging from small build decks that fit inside a whole plethora of 20mm ID caps all the way up to the 52.8mm Colorado RDA. To me, personally, the flavor and all the other characteristics that make (or break) the vape experience are interlinked and can not be disconnected from each other in any way, shape, or form, so... to me, this isn't just about applying some heat and some air. Rather, it's about fine tuning the parameters by keeping in mind that performance is limited by the weakest link. In part, it means that the relationship between coil specs, coil positioning, and all factors related to airflow also including the strength of my draw all need to be in perfect balance with each other.

As elitist as that may sound to some, it's all really nothing more than a, relatively strong, dedication toward a simple goal that is twofold: 1/ the benefits of variation and of being able to compare, and 2/ finding the one miracle kind of setup that vapes best for everyone else except me. ? (On a more serious note, I just think that flavor chasing is about so much more than just flavor, as the warmth, wetness, density, and texture of the vape are equally as paramount, and, both the speed of inhalation and the amount of restrictiveness are an inevitable part of that culinary equation.)
 

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_evil twin_
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It's the 28mm Fatality Limited Edition. And just had a couple questions.
Am I correct on guesstimating resistance? And...
Are there a any other reasons [besides fitment and af], like power distribution, or anything...that looks like trouble.
 

Carambrda

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I see now, sorry about that. With the 28 and using beefy coils it does kind of work... kind of. And yes, with coils that each have the same resistance hooked up in parallel you can simply divide the resistance by the number of coils, but the middle one having longer legs means that this one is slightly higher resistance which causes it to ramp up a little bit slower in comparison to the other two, as higher resistances hold the current back more, i.e. resistances literally resist the intensity of the current. (When, due to the coils being in parallel, the volts on each coil remain nonetheless equal.) But this little bit of power imbalance between the middle one and the other two isn't necessarily always going to be a problem of course, and in fact may turn out to be beneficial in the particular sense that it may turn out that it compensates, at least in part, for the uneven airflow distribution the unevenness of which you can─also at least in part─still try to correct or mitigate as a result from being able to separately adjust the two airflow control rings. In addition to this, you could also decide to play with subtle differences in coil diameter between the middle one and the other two, if you have the courage for it, like, e.g., coiling it up at 2.5mm ID and then NOT pulling on it with your coiling rod/screwdriver after you mount it, and coiling the other two up at 3mm ID and pulling on them. You know... "hat tricks". :D
 

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coiling it up at 2.5mm ID and then NOT pulling on it with your coiling rod/screwdriver after you mount it, and coiling the other two up at 3mm ID and pulling on them. You know... "hat tricks". :D
I just woke up, but pretty sure that's what I was looking at yesterday in SteamEngine.
Using 3x28/36 N80, 2.5id for the one with the longer legs should be very close to the 3mm outers.
I could install an outer just to get a reading, then the inner 2.5 and possibly adjust leg length a tiny bit.
 

Carambrda

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I just woke up, but pretty sure that's what I was looking at yesterday in SteamEngine.
Using 3x28/36 N80, 2.5id for the one with the longer legs should be very close to the 3mm outers.
I could install an outer just to get a reading, then the inner 2.5 and possibly adjust leg length a tiny bit.
Lengthy coils at 2.5mm ID can too easily tend to burn the wick in half, though. All depends on the number of wraps needed to get where you want to be, but keeping the middle one at 3mm with one less wrap might be another option worth considering TBH.
 

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I'll take at look at that too and give something a go and post back my findings.
 

Bigrick

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When I first got my Dead Rabbit I put all kinds of builds on it. Quad, tri, tri criss cross, etc.. Mostly single round builds in 26 SS. Some ohmed out very low. I tried them on tube mechs and series mods as they were too low for a regulated mod to fire. No ohms law discussion please. I did knowingly and intentionally. But they were fun to goof around with.
 

Carambrda

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When I first got my Dead Rabbit I put all kinds of builds on it. Quad, tri, tri criss cross, etc.. Mostly single round builds in 26 SS. Some ohmed out very low. I tried them on tube mechs and series mods as they were too low for a regulated mod to fire. No ohms law discussion please. I did knowingly and intentionally. But they were fun to goof around with.
What do you mean, series mods? Do you mean series mechs, or do you mean unregulated series mods? If a build is too low for a regulated mod to fire, usually it's because it's below .1 ohm so if this is what you are referring to, then I don't really see how that could work well in the Dead Rabbit, especially on a series mech.
 

Bigrick

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What do you mean, series mods? Do you mean series mechs, or do you mean unregulated series mods? If a build is too low for a regulated mod to fire, usually it's because it's below .1 ohm so if this is what you are referring to, then I don't really see how that could work well in the Dead Rabbit, especially on a series mech.
I did not say it worked well. I said I tried it. Yes I know about ohms law. Yes I believe it was.08 on the DR on a og NC. Yes I am aware of the potential issues. It was experental and conteolled. Yes I still have a face. No It would not be a adv. Just pressing the envelope.
 

Carambrda

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I did not say it worked well.
It's what I had expected. My conclusion would be simply too much airflow headed directly toward the areas that surround the coils i.e. not enough airflow smashing right into the coils to keep them from ramping up beyond the desired temperature level during a pull... so that you either end up having to interrupt the pull to avoid getting a somewhat dry-ish hit or end up pulling so much harder that the excess airflow causes diluted flavor.
 

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_evil twin_
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Success !
3x28/36 N80 5/6 wraps 3ID alien x 3. About .43Ω ea. And final for all 3 mounted rested at .15Ω
Top coils = 5mm leads. Mounted straight up, while leaving a little of the port exposed on the chimney side.
Middle/bottom coil = 7mm legs. Pulled to the center/bottom but without risk to Peek.

The top/middle that share posts ramp evenly even with that 2mm leg length difference.
The coil that doesn't share posts ramps ever so slightly faster than the other 2, but nothing to be concerned about.

Sorry, no picks of coil placement. Can't tell from this pic but the middle coils sits lower than the other 2. There is ample room for af around all coils. These coils are about the same length as the af opening at the bottom, but narrower (the width of the bottom af is 7mm).

I first dry fired each coil separately.
Each coil has its own af, with the top getting a little help from the bottom.
Before I thinned the wick a little more:

coil1.jpg
x3VAPOR.jpg

Running it with both AFC's fully open at a meager 60W atm(.15), which is a lot for me.
Ramps fast on Kodama, I purge it when its cool.

Flavor is a whole nother level compared to duals which was already great. The 3rd coil took the RTA from great to outstanding. I'll never run it w/2 coils again.

pic.jpg
 
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