Finding the problem when your DIY tastes BAD

[Cowboy_Rich]

Totally sorry all. Work is ridiculous and every time I think of this thread something else pops into my browser.

I appreciate all the responses.

Hard to be able to try and help with your recipe without being able to taste test it. I wish I had the ability to do that! Is it all Bavarian Cream? What is that 50% Boost you spoke about?

Yes, all Bavarian Cream. The boost is for max VG mixes where they add an additional 50% of the flavor mix.
----

15% for Bavarian Cream is pretty high. You could start at 5% and see what you think of that. Some use less than that, but it's a good starting point for that one. Is this TFA, Capella or a different vendor?

I think that is where I am going to start with a new batch. I took this current one and mixed it with a suicide - it's vapeable now.

I was told it was from FW which is why the 15%. I think my next flavor order will be from Wizard Labs.
-

Never tried FW Bavarian but both TFA & CAP need a month steep before they taste decent IMO.

Personally like the CAP version better, but I've always mixed it in with "other things", and never tried any stand alone.

Agree with Huck tho, 5% may be a better starting point to work from.
I just have a hard time waiting for a month to test these types.
EM/Cotton Candy or sweetener might help calm it down some too.

I have heard that creams need about a month to develop, but with this flavor from this vendor I always shake and vape right from the box. The juice is made the same day it ships and typically receives a 3 day "mail steep".

I'm a dessert guy, but I don't like a mouthful or a diabetic coma, ya know? Birthday and "Unicorn" Cakes are usually too sweet/rich to be an ADV.

It looks like the consensus is that I just have waaaaay to much flavoring at this point and I should start with 5% and see how it works out.

Now, what if a recipe calls for like 3% of four different flavors? Wouldn't that be too much or is it just that certain flavors are more potent and less is needed?

Thanks all!

Btw, FW cheesecake, 15% = gross. 10% is still strong so I think 3-5% is going to be the sweet spot. I guess everyone, or almost everyone, learns the hard way. ;-)

 

[SteveS45]

The more flavors I add the more careful I am about over seasoning so to speak. Some flavors will dominate the flavor if you use too much. Like Pineapple is sweet and wonderful alone but mix it too much and it can kill a nice mix or just taste only pineapple. I have started experimenting with mixing in my tank for off the cuff ideas. If i don't like it I wash out my tank and start again at worst I waste an ML or two.

 

[Cowboy_Rich]

I've got a whole spreadsheet ready to go with ideas and mixes, but don't want to jump in until I understand it.

I bought a DIY bundle from a local shop to get me started and I have a feeling that I will end up tossing most of it and starting with fresh goods.

 

[AndriaD]

I've got a whole spreadsheet ready to go with ideas and mixes, but don't want to jump in until I understand it.

I bought a DIY bundle from a local shop to get me started and I have a feeling that I will end up tossing most of it and starting with fresh goods.

It's hard to really understand it, until you actually mix a few things, or more than a few, and see what they taste like to you -- everyone told me 2% or 4% on shisha strawberry, but 4% I could barely taste, and 8% just tasted "thin" -- when I bumped it to 16% plus 15% of creams and vanillas, FINALLY it was vapable.

Andria

 

[SteveS45]

Don't toss it keep it for when for when you get your groove on. One A-Hole on ECF insists there are things you will never use in the Liquid Barn Kit. The only thing I may never use is the mixing mat because I use the PC for my recipes.

 

[SteveS45]

Every time I total up the bottles next to me here I laugh because I now have 25 bottles when I was not that high the last time I posted the amount. Still none washed down the drain!

 

[SteveS45]

Here is another benefit of DIY. I was vaping Orange Banana all afternoon and got tired of it so I filled my tank with half of a Peachy Honeydew and now am vaping a Dewy Peach Orange Banana. Something I might never reproduce but was my whim at the moment. 2 good Flavors I made that just became my Mood Mix.

 

[Cowboy_Rich]

I just realized I have totally hijacked this thread.

Sorry OP, didn't mean too!

 

[SteveS45]

I just realized I have totally hijacked this thread.

Sorry OP, didn't mean too!

I don't think you have to worry I don't think the OP has been back since June? Start a new thread if you want!

 

[Huckleberried]

The OP was on today, but he mostly posts in his store thread. His main focus is to help new mixers, so I have no doubt he'd be ok with it.

 

[Ablonz]

Totally sorry all. Work is ridiculous and every time I think of this thread something else pops into my browser.

I appreciate all the responses.




Yes, all Bavarian Cream. The boost is for max VG mixes where they add an additional 50% of the flavor mix.
----



I think that is where I am going to start with a new batch. I took this current one and mixed it with a suicide - it's vapeable now.

I was told it was from FW which is why the 15%. I think my next flavor order will be from Wizard Labs.
-



I have heard that creams need about a month to develop, but with this flavor from this vendor I always shake and vape right from the box. The juice is made the same day it ships and typically receives a 3 day "mail steep".

I'm a dessert guy, but I don't like a mouthful or a diabetic coma, ya know? Birthday and "Unicorn" Cakes are usually too sweet/rich to be an ADV.

It looks like the consensus is that I just have waaaaay to much flavoring at this point and I should start with 5% and see how it works out.

Now, what if a recipe calls for like 3% of four different flavors? Wouldn't that be too much or is it just that certain flavors are more potent and less is needed?

Thanks all!

Btw, FW cheesecake, 15% = gross. 10% is still strong so I think 3-5% is going to be the sweet spot. I guess everyone, or almost everyone, learns the hard way. ;-)

As you can see from above post from Andria, people and their palate are totally different. Taste is subjective. I use the max of 3% of any one flavor. The total in my juices range from .5%-11.5% total flavoring @ 30pg/70vg mix. I ALWAYS recommend to start low and adjust higher if needed. Sometimes with flavoring, less is more. It is always easier to add flavoring than it is to take it out. As far as myself and Bavarian Cream, I would do as stand alone 3% Bavarian Cream with .5% Sweetner. Shake and vape (test) right away. Test again the next day, 3 days, then after a week. Then you will have an understanding of what the flavor will do with time. Desserts, I would also recommend testing again at 2 weeks, 3 weeks and finally 4 weeks. Oh, and by the way, with Bavarian Cream, it is best tasting using max air flow with my experience. Hope this helps.

 

[Heabob]

Now, what if a recipe calls for like 3% of four different flavors? Wouldn't that be too much or is it just that certain flavors are more potent and less is needed?

3% of 4 different types of flavors is not unusual.
Or even 4 different fruits mixed together for that matter.
But 4 different Blueberries combined at 12% would be way too much IMO, but 6% would be reasonable, although still to high for me anyway.

If all four are Vanillas (12% total Vanillas or Creams), I'd say yes it's too much, 1-2% for each would be better.
Unless your trying to make a Vanilla Ice Cream base maybe.
Because if 1 or 2 are Vanilla Custard and/or Vanilla Bean Ice Cream that theory kinda goes out the window.
And yes, much also depends on the brands & flavors being mixed, which is why you have to "learn all your flavors".
For flavors that are used sometimes for spices/backnotes/sweetness you really don't want more than 0.5-1%.
Such as:
0.5% FA Raspberry
0.5% FA Pineapple
0.5-1% FA Black Cherry
0.5% FA Coconut
0.5-1% FA Marshmallow
0.5-1% FE Lemon

Not really meant to be tasted in a mix, but used as "helpers".

 

[AndriaD]

And yes, much also depends on the brands & flavors being mixed, which is why you have to "learn all your flavors".

This is what I meant about not truly understanding this stuff until you actually mix, at least a little, and usually a lot -- you have to actually taste various mixes, various brands, various flavors, to know just what mix/brand/flavor suits your own tastebuds.

I use a lot of flavoring, a great deal more than most I've talked to about DIY... but I couldn't do that if I hadn't tried some mixes, and figured out what suited me. I still will start off a new mix at pretty low percentages -- to give me an idea how strong those particular flavors are; I don't want to waste flavoring or the other ingredients -- as many have pointed out, it's easy to add more flavor if you need it, but impossible to take it out once it's in there.

The learning is in the doing.

Andria

 

[Cowboy_Rich]

Wow. So much to it.

My head hath exploded.

Thanks all, very much. Going to try some new batches at lower flavor %'s.

 

[Huckleberried]

I always get this problem, it 50/50 with me sometimes it turns out nice, and sometimes it taste horrible, I tried to make this one - http://www.simplyeliquid.com.au/product/jam-on-toast-e-liquid-30ml/ but it always turns out horrible, any ideas?

What did you use?

 

[Heabob]

I always get this problem, it 50/50 with me sometimes it turns out nice, and sometimes it taste horrible, I tried to make this one - http://www.simplyeliquid.com.au/product/jam-on-toast-e-liquid-30ml/ but it always turns out horrible, any ideas?

Clones are tough to replicate IMO.
The Jam part should be easy, Strawberry? or Grape?
Probably could also get some Butter in there too.
But the Toast part, not even a clue...

 

[Huckleberried]

Just don't use FA Bread Crust. At least not full strength. Even diluted it's scary.

 

[Heabob]

Just don't use FA Bread Crust. At least not full strength. Even diluted it's scary.

Lol, notice I didn't mention that one, but I did think about it for a moment.

 

[Jimmy1life]

Good info i tried my pg by itself so bitter nasty I to had pull wick and yes i even tried few drops from the fresh sealed gal yuck wasnt usp i think dont. Dosnt say but its for animals better hit up essential depot last time that pg had no taste at all was awesome except like a 20$ shipping fee but lately everythings been kinda bland good to check stuff every once in awhile. This ag pg was given to me no good. Does Pg from Tractor supply taste ok is it vapeable? For moment possibly start tryn distilled water at 1% or max vg but the fog its to thick lol.
Would water almost mute flavors? Just asking because i always read pg is a flavor carrier. I kno straight vg does kindatake a lil more.

 

[Heabob]

Does Pg from Tractor supply taste ok is it vapeable?

It's all I've been using for 2 years and haven't had any problems yet.

 

[Jimmy1life]

It's all I've been using for 2 years and haven't had any problems yet.

Sweet thats one ive yet to try. Il have to stop in TSC and grab that pg and few other people said same that its ok. Not knocking others but beats paying even extra for shipping.

 

[Heabob]

Sweet thats one ive yet to try. Il have to stop in TSC and grab that pg and few other people said same that its ok. Not knocking others but beats paying even extra for shipping.

Forgot to mention I'm also using a 70PG/30VG ratio...

 

[Jimmy1life]

Sweet bud I got my hands on another gal of pg this is kosher grade usp. First thing i did was drip 8 drops into my rda test it surprisingly its very good and sweet to the taste now I'm pumped lol. I like the pg to cut the linger of fog down. Alright guys take care.

 

[Wylde_77]

Anyone know why my juice is kinda harsh? It's the same nic I vape and I vape 3mg I made 120ml bottles and added 3.6 ml of nicotine. But it's a bit harsh. I know I got all the measurements right.. maybe it needs to steep or ? Idk maybe next time I'll only add 3ml instead of 3.6ml of nic? Anyone else have this problem?

 

[PuffPuffPass]

Anyone know why my juice is kinda harsh? It's the same nic I vape and I vape 3mg I made 120ml bottles and added 3.6 ml of nicotine. But it's a bit harsh. I know I got all the measurements right.. maybe it needs to steep or ? Idk maybe next time I'll only add 3ml instead of 3.6ml of nic? Anyone else have this problem?

Are you keeping your nic mixed, (gently) before you add to a new batch? It can separate from the PG or VG base if it sets for a long period.

 

[Wylde_77]

If u mean shake I always shake before I vape

 

[Wylde_77]

And yes I shake the base first

 

[PuffPuffPass]

If u mean shake I always shake before I vape

Your nic, before you mix

 

[Wylde_77]

Your nic, before you mix

Yes

 

[Wylde_77]

And it's VG base

 

[Jimmy1life]

Anyone know why my juice is kinda harsh? It's the same nic I vape and I vape 3mg I made 120ml bottles and added 3.6 ml of nicotine. But it's a bit harsh. I know I got all the measurements right.. maybe it needs to steep or ? Idk maybe next time I'll only add 3ml instead of 3.6ml of nic? Anyone else have this problem?

Did you do 70vg 30pg????

 

[Wylde_77]

Did you do 70vg 30pg????

80/20

 

[Wylde_77]

I'm thinking I didn't shake the base enough

 

[terminator]

When should the flavour strength be tested because I made a tiramius flavour arts standalone at 3.5% in vg/pg 70/30 3mg nic it was okay when I first made it but after few days of steeping it became too harsh???
And if I make a small batch with lowest flavour percentage can I add more flavour in the same batch or have to make again.

Sent from my C6833 using Tapatalk

 

[Huckleberried]

IME, more than 1% isn't necessary. It's a strong flavoring.

And, yes, you could add more, if that doesn't work out for you.

 

[Ablonz]

When should the flavour strength be tested because I made a tiramius flavour arts standalone at 3.5% in vg/pg 70/30 3mg nic it was okay when I first made it but after few days of steeping it became too harsh???
And if I make a small batch with lowest flavour percentage can I add more flavour in the same batch or have to make again.

Sent from my C6833 using Tapatalk

I would probably drop it to 1.5% and go from there. To me that sounds like too much flavoring causing it to be harsh.

 

[BC67]

These steps will usually help you find the cause of a BAD tasting DIY liquids. If everything suddenly tastes horrible, even liquids that used to taste fine, your hardware is likely the problem and isn’t addressed here.
If some of your DIY tastes fine, but some is horrible, skip to “Experimenting with your flavoring”

If your DIY is bad, but some liquids are fine with the same hardware, this is the document for you.

#1 Make a small bottle of your nic+PG+VG with NO flavoring at all. It should taste mildly sweet, nothing unpleasant. If it’s pleasant, flavorings are the problem, so skip down to “Experimenting with your flavoring”

#2 If your unflavored nic+PG+VG is unpleasant, vape some of your plain VG and plain PG. If one of those tastes bad, that is your problem. If both of those taste okay, your nic is the problem. Any time you get a new bottle of nic, PG, or VG, it's good to test it before mixing up lots of liquids...just to be sure you're starting with good supplies.

----------------
If your culprit is nic, PG, or VG, it’s time to shop for better supplies.
If your culprit is flavoring, it’s time to experiment.
----------------

Experimenting with your flavoring

#1 Always shake the flavoring bottle before you use it. Many settle, even if you can’t tell by looking.

#2 try each flavoring separately. This is good to do with every new flavoring you get. If you don’t do this before you use a new flavoring in recipes, you often end up doing it later - after you’ve wasted supplies.

Pick a flavor and look around for recommended starting percentage.
This is useful: https://spreadsheets.google.com/spr..._hQ6Fu8HdEwwR2dLRUJlVjlabEN1NG1ucktuUVE&gid=0
Click your brand at the top. Flavor names are down the side with the manufacturer’s recommendation (if there is one) in the grey column. The yellow column is the average recommendation from the DIYers who contributed. Each of the other columns is one person’s data (names at top of the column). Even if your flavor isn’t listed, you can often get an idea of a reasonable standalone starting point for that brand.

Make a tiny batch of your (one) flavoring and see how you like it. It’s helpful to take notes. If it’s too weak or strong for you, experiment to find your preferred standalone percent. Maybe write your preferred standalone percent on the bottle.

Do this for each flavoring in a recipe that tastes BAD to see which one caused the problem. Nearly always, you’ll have the problem identified by this point.

 

[BC67]

These steps will usually help you find the cause of a BAD tasting DIY liquids. If everything suddenly tastes horrible, even liquids that used to taste fine, your hardware is likely the problem and isn’t addressed here.
If some of your DIY tastes fine, but some is horrible, skip to “Experimenting with your flavoring”

If your DIY is bad, but some liquids are fine with the same hardware, this is the document for you.

#1 Make a small bottle of your nic+PG+VG with NO flavoring at all. It should taste mildly sweet, nothing unpleasant. If it’s pleasant, flavorings are the problem, so skip down to “Experimenting with your flavoring”

#2 If your unflavored nic+PG+VG is unpleasant, vape some of your plain VG and plain PG. If one of those tastes bad, that is your problem. If both of those taste okay, your nic is the problem. Any time you get a new bottle of nic, PG, or VG, it's good to test it before mixing up lots of liquids...just to be sure you're starting with good supplies.

----------------
If your culprit is nic, PG, or VG, it’s time to shop for better supplies.
If your culprit is flavoring, it’s time to experiment.
----------------

Experimenting with your flavoring

#1 Always shake the flavoring bottle before you use it. Many settle, even if you can’t tell by looking.

#2 try each flavoring separately. This is good to do with every new flavoring you get. If you don’t do this before you use a new flavoring in recipes, you often end up doing it later - after you’ve wasted supplies.

Pick a flavor and look around for recommended starting percentage.
This is useful: https://spreadsheets.google.com/spr..._hQ6Fu8HdEwwR2dLRUJlVjlabEN1NG1ucktuUVE&gid=0
Click your brand at the top. Flavor names are down the side with the manufacturer’s recommendation (if there is one) in the grey column. The yellow column is the average recommendation from the DIYers who contributed. Each of the other columns is one person’s data (names at top of the column). Even if your flavor isn’t listed, you can often get an idea of a reasonable standalone starting point for that brand.

Make a tiny batch of your (one) flavoring and see how you like it. It’s helpful to take notes. If it’s too weak or strong for you, experiment to find your preferred standalone percent. Maybe write your preferred standalone percent on the bottle.

Do this for each flavoring in a recipe that tastes BAD to see which one caused the problem. Nearly always, you’ll have the problem identified by this point.

I've recently started diy juice again, and I'm going to be investing In a lot of higher quality hardware, but I've encountered a problem, I made the best juice recipe I've ever had, 6 mil nic. VG/PG of 20/80 and I made 120 mil.
It tasted great I loved it, the suddenly it started tasting like all the flavoring just disappeared as if I had made it without adding any flavoring!
what would cause this?

 

[BC67]

I've recently started diy juice again, and I'm going to be investing In a lot of higher quality hardware, but I've encountered a problem, I made the best juice recipe I've ever had, 6 mil nic. VG/PG of 20/80 and I made 120 mil.
It tasted great I loved it, the suddenly it started tasting like all the flavoring just disappeared as if I had made it without adding any flavoring!
what would cause this?

that was supposed to mean a Vg og 80!

 

[Knowledge318]

Nice post to the OP.

As to bigger batches, my approach is to mix big batches in a series of smaller bottles. I line up as many 30ml bottles as I want for the batch- e.g. 4 x 30ml bottles for a 120ml batch and just go down the line measuring and adding each ingredient. I find they steep better, as noted above, and are overall easier to handle for ultrasonic bathing and subsequent use.Oh, I also only use glass bottles. I add the nicotine base first, then the flavors and I add the extra VG last, so I can just fill up the bottle and do not have to measure the last and usually largest ingredient each time. I do mix high VG juices as the wife is sensitive to PG.

Question about the ultrasonic bathing, I watched a YouTube video on DIY just the other day so I ordered everything he said I would need to get started, everything will be here by March 5th. The person in the video didn’t say how much of the glass bottles should be covered by the water in the ultrasonic cleaner nor did he say how long I should keep the bottles of juice in there for. Any advice would be appreciated, thanks.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[bobnat]

I've recently started diy juice again, and I'm going to be investing In a lot of higher quality hardware, but I've encountered a problem, I made the best juice recipe I've ever had, 6 mil nic. VG/PG of 20/80 and I made 120 mil.
It tasted great I loved it, the suddenly it started tasting like all the flavoring just disappeared as if I had made it without adding any flavoring!
what would cause this?

Could be any sweetener if you use it. Honestly, it could be a number of things. I've had it happen to me a few times and I suspect it was one ingredient wreaking havoc on the others but I can't prove it.

My way around this problem is I don't like any juice that needs more than a week. I don't like Cap custard or most Ice Cream flavors so that helps with that issue. Also, I don't mix any more than 90ml of my favorite juices that I know won't go bad. Everything else is 60ml max and usually just 30 at a time. If you stick with DIY for a few months you'll end up with so much juice that you won't really need to make big batches.

 

[BC67]

Thanks, I just ordered a bunch of flavors and unicorn bottles, ill probably only mix 60 mil at a time and see if that helps.

 

[telecasters]

I like mixing strong single flavours, then diluting and checking out how they steep and blend with each other.

Sometimes you need some acid to balance things out, or sweetner (Stevia for me), or 0.9% saline to brighten up flavours.

Have yet to play with the TA / AP side of things

Great write-up HIC!

Aha!! You just answered a big question!! What to use to sweeten! I know plain sugar won'twork because it will quickly gum up your coil. Is there any other sweeteners that people use that you are aware?

 

[FLTim]

If a new mix suddenly tastes very peppery, you may have hit a "hot spot" in your nic - shake it better before mixing next time!

Learning what a hot spot is (area of concentrated nic in the base) helped me understand past occasional, infrequent peppery tastes. They don't happen any more shake shake shake any solution before mixing.

Ultrasound, magic tool

 

[MagicJosh]

Old flavors are dull. Not much in flavor after it sits in tupper ware for a long time.

 

[SteveS45]

Tupperware?

 

[VapeOn1960]

Wow. This thread started in 2015 and is till going
I was thinking my nic (from a different vendor than before) was bad. Now I realize I didn't shake it before mixing my unflavored "base". I'm OCD about shaking the base once mixed (and my juices with flavors once mixed) but completely forgot about shaking the nic bottle. I think my last batch of base seemed really strong and bitter. Lesson learned. I do hate having to shake it though because of oxidation.

 

[walton]

I will make 30 ml again
It's just better to mix bigger for more steep time

Sent from my GT-I9192 using Tapatalk

strange as it sounds, if i put together a mix that tastes good, rather than say make a 100ml, i usually make 3 x 30ml. it sounds stupid but i have noticed it tastes better in smaller mixes and it is a different taste if you use glass bottles as opposed to plastic bottles.it could be a seepage of some sort coming from a plastic bottle that is kept for a while that you would not get from glass.