FlavourArt Club ... formally known as the PureVapes thread

[bucket_T]

Evening everyone, long time listener, first time caller, etc.

First, I'd like to thank everyone in this community for all the wonderful information on DIY and giving me the courage to give it all a whirl after 6 months of vaping vendor juices. I wanted to pick everyone's brains to the problem I've been facing, and was hoping to finally get that wonderful FA goodness I've read so much about. I've been playing around with DIY for a few months now, taking (or at least trying) everyone's advice, but I still can't seem to seem to get any of my juices "right". As a quick rundown, I'm using about 6% nic and have been shooting for around a 70/30 ratio (which was what I was enjoying from the vendor juices I've tried). I've tried changing suppliers for VG, PG and nic and none of it seems to help (VT and NN nic, ED VG/PG, BCV's VG and Vaperstek VG). It's hard to explain the taste I'm getting, but there's an overwhelming mustiness and dryness. It's very similar to the taste I was getting vaping VG straight, sans flavoring, but amped up (Thanks for the tip, HIC). When vaping the VG straight, it was inoffensive and just....VGish, I guess. It's very rare I get much flavoring at all out of a mix, even solo flavors. I've also tried adding 0.9% saline solution and didn't notice much of a difference. I'd also like to make sure to point out that I'm not disparaging any of the vendors that I've tried or the products they provide, they've all been super helpful and provide quality stuff. I know I'm the weak link and am just looking to get the most of what I make.

Again, thank you for all your help. It's strange to say, but after following this thread for so long, it's almost like I know everyone here (one big happy vaping family!) and appreciate the work everyone shares.

 

[housedag]

Hi All! I haven't been on this thread for a long time but when I first started DIY, you were all very helpful in suggesting how to get started.

I order about 30 or so FA flavours, and mix them occasionally, but I have found my ADV is peppermint.

In Canada, a local supplier has FA's mild winter described as peppermint, and I have been vaping it almost exclusively for about 6 months.

I assumed it was diketone free, but is it one of the kitchen line that has to be reformulated?

Your advise is appreciated, and where I can get more info would also be great.

Thank you,

Tracy VM


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[Semi Reduction]

Hi All! I haven't been on this thread for a long time but when I first started DIY, you were all very helpful in suggesting how to get started.

I order about 30 or so FA flavours, and mix them occasionally, but I have found my ADV is peppermint.

In Canada, a local supplier has FA's mild winter described as peppermint, and I have been vaping it almost exclusively for about 6 months.

I assumed it was diketone free, but is it one of the kitchen line that has to be reformulated?

Your advise is appreciated, and where I can get more info would also be great.

Thank you,

Tracy VM


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

From what I can gather, Mild Winter doesn't contain diketones.
FA always alert customers of diacetyl on their site and this flavour comes up clean

 

[Semi Reduction]

Although it comes up in their kitchen magic range, not everything in their kitchen magic range seems to have diketones.
You can check this on their original site
http://flavourartexpress.biz/

 

[Thunderball]

Evening everyone, long time listener, first time caller, etc.

First, I'd like to thank everyone in this community for all the wonderful information on DIY and giving me the courage to give it all a whirl after 6 months of vaping vendor juices. I wanted to pick everyone's brains to the problem I've been facing, and was hoping to finally get that wonderful FA goodness I've read so much about. I've been playing around with DIY for a few months now, taking (or at least trying) everyone's advice, but I still can't seem to seem to get any of my juices "right". As a quick rundown, I'm using about 6% nic and have been shooting for around a 70/30 ratio (which was what I was enjoying from the vendor juices I've tried). I've tried changing suppliers for VG, PG and nic and none of it seems to help (VT and NN nic, ED VG/PG, BCV's VG and Vaperstek VG). It's hard to explain the taste I'm getting, but there's an overwhelming mustiness and dryness. It's very similar to the taste I was getting vaping VG straight, sans flavoring, but amped up (Thanks for the tip, HIC). When vaping the VG straight, it was inoffensive and just....VGish, I guess. It's very rare I get much flavoring at all out of a mix, even solo flavors. I've also tried adding 0.9% saline solution and didn't notice much of a difference. I'd also like to make sure to point out that I'm not disparaging any of the vendors that I've tried or the products they provide, they've all been super helpful and provide quality stuff. I know I'm the weak link and am just looking to get the most of what I make.

Again, thank you for all your help. It's strange to say, but after following this thread for so long, it's almost like I know everyone here (one big happy vaping family!) and appreciate the work everyone shares.

A couple of questions: Are the store bought juices good to you with no mustiness and dryness ?
In other words, when you vape a store bought juice do you go "Yum" and when you vape ANYTHING you made, it is musty and dry ?

Im really wondering if it isnt your hardware somehow. Ive never gotten musty and dry from even my worst mixes.....even with TFA flavors.
Tell us more.

Remember, for the most part, those store bought juices dont have anything special in them that we dont put in ours ( except we may use a better/tastier flavoring and some of us use a less offensive Nic )

 

[RyGon]

A couple of questions: Are the store bought juices good to you with no mustiness and dryness ?
In other words, when you vape a store bought juice do you go "Yum" and when you vape ANYTHING you made, it is musty and dry ?

Im really wondering if it isnt your hardware somehow. Ive never gotten musty and dry from even my worst mixes.....even with TFA flavors.
Tell us more.

Remember, for the most part, those store bought juices dont have anything special in them that we dont put in ours ( except we may use a better/tastier flavoring and some of us use a less offensive Nic )

Mustiness makes me think bad VG.

 

[VapnJake]

I have seen Joy listed, but always out of stock.

Oh man this is killing me! When it does come back in stock I'm tempted to purchase a much larger bottle so if I like it I don't have to worry about waiting to purchase again... If I don't like it I'll send it to someone that does.. lol

 

[Teresa P]

Oh man this is killing me! When it does come back in stock I'm tempted to purchase a much larger bottle so if I like it I don't have to worry about waiting to purchase again... If I don't like it I'll send it to someone that does.. lol

ECX has it in stock now.


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[juicy76]

Ok so an update on my mix... Lol... It only took 3 days & 8 baths to get it settled... Hahahahaha that was strange

 

[housedag]

Although it comes up in their kitchen magic range, not everything in their kitchen magic range seems to have diketones.
You can check this on their original site
http://flavourartexpress.biz/

Hi Semi !

Thank you for getting back to me.

So if a flavouring did have diketones, it would be listed in the description on the website? Or elsewhere?

Cheers,

Tracy VM




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Huckleberried]

Hi Semi !

Thank you for getting back to me.

So if a flavouring did have diketones, it would be listed in the description on the website? Or elsewhere?

Cheers,

Tracy VM




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

None of FA's flavors that are in the ecig line contain diketones.

 

[bucket_T]

A couple of questions: Are the store bought juices good to you with no mustiness and dryness ?
In other words, when you vape a store bought juice do you go "Yum" and when you vape ANYTHING you made, it is musty and dry ?

Im really wondering if it isnt your hardware somehow. Ive never gotten musty and dry from even my worst mixes.....even with TFA flavors.
Tell us more.

Remember, for the most part, those store bought juices dont have anything special in them that we dont put in ours ( except we may use a better/tastier flavoring and some of us use a less offensive Nic )

The vendor juices I'm used to had none of that dry mustiness to them. They were all and all, pretty smooth and flavorful. Most, if not all, of the stuff I've tried making has had at least some traces of this weird taste I'm trying to chase down. I don't think it's a hardware problem, the RDA I've been using for testing has been cleaned several times and used with the vendor stuff with no issues. I'm beginning to suspect it may be the glassware that I'm using for mixing. Normally, after I'd buy them, I'd just run them through warm water and maybe a little soap. As a test, I cleaned one with iso alcohol and salt, shook the bejeebus out of it and have a mix with a VG and nic sample that has never touched any of my glassware. I'll report back after I get a chance to try it out. Out of curiosity, how does everyone else clean their gear?

Mustiness makes me think bad VG.

That's what I initially thought too, which is why I've tried a few different suppliers. I've got another brand on it's way and I'll give that a shot too. Thanks for the input folks!

 

[RyGon]

That's what I initially thought too, which is why I've tried a few different suppliers. I've got another brand on it's way and I'll give that a shot too. Thanks for the input folks!

Yeah, I saw that you have tried multiple sources. That's just what comes to mind when I think of musty vape. As far as dry goes, I find most FA fruits to be pretty dry without some sweetener. Commercial juices tend to be so sweetened maybe they are just covering up the flavor of the VG that you are sensitive to. FA doesn't make any candy fruit flavors like pretty much every commercial fruity ejuice is using to some degree. I don't know what profiles you enjoy. Just keep playing with different recipes. Maybe try a bakery recipe with some cookie and marzipan in there with your favorite fruits and maybe some vienna cream. That combo gets sweet pretty fast without sweetener.

 

[bucket_T]

Yeah, I saw that you have tried multiple sources. That's just what comes to mind when I think of musty vape. As far as dry goes, I find most FA fruits to be pretty dry without some sweetener. Commercial juices tend to be so sweetened maybe they are just covering up the flavor of the VG that you are sensitive to. FA doesn't make any candy fruit flavors like pretty much every commercial fruity ejuice is using to some degree. I don't know what profiles you enjoy. Just keep playing with different recipes. Maybe try a bakery recipe with some cookie and marzipan in there with your favorite fruits and maybe some vienna cream. That combo gets sweet pretty fast without sweetener.

That sounds like a good plan. I think I tried running before I could walk, so to speak, when it came to DIY. I was focused on all these delicious recipes that yall were posting and didn't make sure I had the basics down. For the most part, I vape cereal and bakery flavors but am definitely looking forward to FA fruit mixes as well. Hopefully some day I can contribute to the thread with a tasty recipe of my own to give back to everyone.

 

[Semi Reduction]

Hi Semi !

Thank you for getting back to me.

So if a flavouring did have diketones, it would be listed in the description on the website? Or elsewhere?

Cheers,

Tracy VM




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hey Tracy

Yea as Huckleberried mentioned, none in the ecig line have diketones. I think you may have got confused because Mild WInter is also in the kitchen magic line. Here's a link to a flavour with diketones, you can see it clearly stated in the description.

http://flavourartexpress.biz/index.php?dispatch=products.view&product_id=641

(real pity too, coz I love Panetonne, bet this is nice)

 

[wllmc]

time to catch up on this ! hey guys sorry Ive been kinda M.I.A. it has been work followed by more work and wrapped up nicely with more work lol. Hope the FA gang is doing ok

 

[RyGon]

That sounds like a good plan. I think I tried running before I could walk, so to speak, when it came to DIY. I was focused on all these delicious recipes that yall were posting and didn't make sure I had the basics down. For the most part, I vape cereal and bakery flavors but am definitely looking forward to FA fruit mixes as well. Hopefully some day I can contribute to the thread with a tasty recipe of my own to give back to everyone.

Nah, don't be intimidated. Ingredients are cheap. Use HIC's notes and try out some of the recipes here. You will learn how flavorings interact with each other and ballpark percentages with experimentation. It's a lot of work becoming a master like some of the guys/gals on here, but it's easy to make something decent. If you like bakery try HIC's Limoncello Torrone Parfait. I used to double the percentages. My own bakery I always have made I call Fluffy Bunny (3% Coconut, 2% Cookie, 1% Marzipan, 1% Pineapple, 1% Vienna Cream).

 

[juicy76]

I have a variation of this recipe lol...I will try the parfait in it .might consider a small amount of blueberry as in mine that was a great move

 

[Thunderball]

time to catch up on this ! hey guys sorry Ive been kinda M.I.A. it has been work followed by more work and wrapped up nicely with more work lol. Hope the FA gang is doing ok

Hey, I used to know you.. Your, uh, you know, "that guy".....

 

[Thunderball]

My own bakery I always have made I call Fluffy Bunny (3% Coconut, 2% Cookie, 1% Marzipan, 1% Pineapple, 1% Vienna Cream).

Look at you holding out on us with a good looking recipe... Gonna try that one.

 

[joeyboy]

@bucket_T I don't know if anyone said this but maybe it is the soap. I only use hot water to rinse my bottles. I have used vodka before then hot water. If you used soap it could have leached in the plastic, depending on the soap and plastic.

I would try glass bottles and the drop technique to remove everything from the equation. Use 40 drops per ml just to make counting easier. Drop directly in to the bottle.

 

[RyGon]

Look at you holding out on us with a good looking recipe... Gonna try that one.

Oh, I'm sure I posted it at some point, but I do think its a decent recipe. The coconut and pineapple make it interesting enough. I have been vaping it for gosh at least 9 months.

@bucket_T I don't know if anyone said this but maybe it is the soap. I only use hot water to rinse my bottles. I have used vodka before then hot water. If you used soap it could have leached in the plastic, depending on the soap and plastic.

I would try glass bottles and the drop technique to remove everything from the equation. Use 40 drops per ml just to make counting easier. Drop directly in to the bottle.

Could be, I use white vinegar and hot water in my ultrasonic cleaner. Passes the smell test and I'm not worried about getting every bit of it off.

edit: ...and I use all glass.

 

[joeyboy]

I would not use vinegar. I drank from a clean glass pickle jar once. Guess what, pickle taste. I have never of anyone using vinegar to clean e juice bottles. Maybe they do.

 

[juicy76]

Er...ahhhhh um...? ......ewwwww ...lol not this guy.... ( just saying)

 

[juicy76]

.......... But all joking a side.... Water soluble mean it breaks completely down in water so using hot water cleans cleaner then using a solution of Any kind.
Two things I can suggest is #1 The dish washer.
#2 rubbing alcohol .... Then rinse Very well a few times or till there is no taste left in the bottles. Air dry 24+ hours

 

[RyGon]

I would not use vinegar. I drank from a clean glass pickle jar once. Guess what, pickle taste. I have never of anyone using vinegar to clean e juice bottles. Maybe they do.

Lol, vinegar is like the most effective food safe fat cutter/deodorizer/disinfectant and it's both cheap and easy to get. Some people even add vinegar to their ejuice recipes to boost flavor.

quick google for reference:
http://www.davidsuzuki.org/what-you-can-do/queen-of-green/faqs/cleaning/does-vinegar-kill-germs/
http://www.abc.net.au/health/talkinghealth/factbuster/stories/2012/02/02/3407024.htm

I'm not worried about getting the ejuice out of my bottles and equipment It's all the other things that love to grow in VG/PG that I am trying to eliminate. Isn't it PG that they use as a growth medium in petri dishes? Lots of people use vinegar to clean plastic water bottles and some even recommend adding vinegar to your room vaporizer to clear chest congestion. Really, you guys need to get on the vinegar bandwagon, its like one of those miracle substances that have a gazillion uses.

 

[bucket_T]

Thanks for the suggestions everyone. I didn't even think about trying white vinegar @RyGon , I'll be sure to try that next time.

I tried two different batches of freshly mixed base, using all glass, cleaned with iso alcohol and rinsed out several times and it seems to have done the trick. @joeyboy , I'm using glass, but I do think that there might have been some slight soap residue (or other contaminants) left in there. The mixes taste so much better now. I'll post an update if anything seems to go south, but I think that was my problem. No musty taste and the dryness has been greatly reduced.

 

[bucket_T]

@juicy76 Cmon, you mean to tell me you wouldn't vape a pickle flavored vape? Maybe we should call up @wllmc ...

 

[Teresa P]

I'll use vinegar if there's any odor left in a bottle after cleaning, but if that doesn't cut it I toss the bottle.
My Mom found a lovely half-liter brown glass bottle at a thrift store, bought it for me to store nicotine in the freezer. I tossed the lid, as it was corroded brass and had some type of dispensing hole in it. The bottle itself looked almost milky inside, cut some of that with Mean Green, but after a 50/50, 5-day soak in vinegar and water and then a soap and water scrub, that sucker was good as new and smelling fresh! I let it air dry and it's in my freezer right now, full of Vaperstek, with a new cap. It's an antique, very stylish....

 

[Jasonfox1988]

I aint tryed vinegar to clean anything as aint needed to and i aint tryed it in my juices i think it change ph levels to make fruits pop rite?
Im now going to order some ph tester strips i read juices ph should be between 4-6 for best taste


happy vaping

 

[Semi Reduction]

Vinegar is a great natural cleaner for many types of applications as it is so acidic (very low PH).
Haven't heard about people adding it to juice, but if you're looking to get the ph down in juice it would make sense.
For my fish tanks I use citric acid from the supermarket to lower PH, but I have also used vinegar to clean algae and grime off of empty tanks. Great at breaking muck down

 

[ClaireW]

Claire, I see your lurking.... Its so damn hot and humid around Atlanta, and its not even August yet ! WTF...

Tball! I been hibernating in office or at mom's pool. I'm ready to move back north. I'll deal with 2ft snow storms. Altho northeast is getting humidity too but there was an ocean.

 

[joeyboy]

112 here yesterday. How about that weather?

 

[RyGon]

Vinegar is a great natural cleaner for many types of applications as it is so acidic (very low PH).
Haven't heard about people adding it to juice, but if you're looking to get the ph down in juice it would make sense.
For my fish tanks I use citric acid from the supermarket to lower PH, but I have also used vinegar to clean algae and grime off of empty tanks. Great at breaking muck down

I never intentionally added vinegar to a recipe I just figured if some are adding it intentionally I don't have to worry if there is some left over from my cleaning process. I did see a post on another forum that was apparently quoting FlavourArt in reference to their Magic Mask additive.
"Reduce the acid perception without modifying the pH. pH is one of the key factors involved in food stability. In order to reduce the pH, a small amount of organic acid must be added to the food preparation (i.e. citric, malic, tartaric acid). In most cases the addition of food acid is beneficial both for microbiological stability and taste."
The poster interpreted this as FlavourArt suggesting that lowering the PH of your ejuice is a good idea and once you get it to the desired PH you can use Magic Mask to negate the sour flavors you get from organic acids such as vinegar and lemon juice without raising the PH.

 

[cindycated]

Lol, vinegar is like the most effective food safe fat cutter/deodorizer/disinfectant and it's both cheap and easy to get. Some people even add vinegar to their ejuice recipes to boost flavor.

quick google for reference:
http://www.davidsuzuki.org/what-you-can-do/queen-of-green/faqs/cleaning/does-vinegar-kill-germs/
http://www.abc.net.au/health/talkinghealth/factbuster/stories/2012/02/02/3407024.htm

I'm not worried about getting the ejuice out of my bottles and equipment It's all the other things that love to grow in VG/PG that I am trying to eliminate. Isn't it PG that they use as a growth medium in petri dishes? Lots of people use vinegar to clean plastic water bottles and some even recommend adding vinegar to your room vaporizer to clear chest congestion. Really, you guys need to get on the vinegar bandwagon, its like one of those miracle substances that have a gazillion uses.

The stuff in petri dishes is AGAR, a gel made out of algae.
I used to be super-careful and treat my stuff like a chem lab, but not so much now, since I remembered that VG/PG have antibacterial properties (also antiviral for PG) - so I'm just "food careful" now, not "chem lab" careful. They do have a shelf life, but since you got some from different suppliers, that's probably not what made your juice musty-tasting. Could it be your wick material?

Vinegar + salt + dish soap = really good weed killer too!

 

[RyGon]

The stuff in petri dishes is AGAR, a gel made out of algae.
I used to be super-careful and treat my stuff like a chem lab, but not so much now, since I remembered that VG/PG have antibacterial properties (also antiviral for PG) - so I'm just "food careful" now, not "chem lab" careful. They do have a shelf life, but since you got some from different suppliers, that's probably not what made your juice musty-tasting. Could it be your wick material?

Vinegar + salt + dish soap = really good weed killer too!

That's good to know. I'm not sure where I got the thing about petri dishes, but I definitely read it somewhere. I have heard that they used to fog the ventilation ducts of hospitals with PG to help prevent viral spread.

As a DIYer I feel like it's my responsibility to take reasonable steps to reduce contamination. In my case that means I work on granite countertops that I have disinfected and try to be as far from the sink and bathrooms as I can. I wear gloves and clean everything with 50/50 white vinegar/hot water in an ultrasonic cleaner. I am no chemist, but these steps are not difficult and make me feel better about the juice I provide for my wife, relatives, friends and of course myself. I always give my juice for free and always let them know that there is some risk associated with DIY ejuice beyond what a properly insured manufacturer using a food safe laboratory can provide. I came to DIY during the last big diketone scare and am an FA purist, so maybe my motivation pushes me a bit in a different direction than most DIYers, but as long as we are not burning tobacco we are all on the same team.

 

[OhioRuss]

@HeadInClouds I see your notes on FA Lime Cold pressed and Tahiti/Distilled. The bottle I got from E-Liquid Mart says "Lime Tahity Cold Pressed by FlavourArt." I am assuming that because their other offering is Lime Tahity Distilled by FlavourArt, that the operative word is not Tahity to distinguish them.

 

[RyGon]

I just finished off a commercial juice I got to really like. Anyone come up with an orange push-pop recipe?

My first mix worked up to 4% orange, 2% vanilla bourbon, 2% vienna cream, 1% sweetener

I think I overshot the orange a bit and its plenty sweet, but the cream needs to be darker and the orange is coming across more like orange juice from concentrate. I think the vanilla is good. I was thinkg maybe back the orange down a bit and maybe add some apricot.

 

[HeadInClouds]

@HeadInClouds I see your notes on FA Lime Cold pressed and Tahiti/Distilled. The bottle I got from E-Liquid Mart says "Lime Tahity Cold Pressed by FlavourArt." I am assuming that because their other offering is Lime Tahity Distilled by FlavourArt, that the operative word is not Tahity to distinguish them.

Check here which one you ordered:
http://www.eliquidmart.com/search.php?search_query=flavourart+lime&Search=
"Lime Tahiti Distilled" is the zesty one
"Lime Tahiti Cold-Pressed" is the sour lime juice one

(I wish FA hadn't made the change about a year ago, adding "Tahtiti" to both names)

 

[bkind]

Check here which one you ordered:
http://www.eliquidmart.com/search.php?search_query=flavourart+lime&Search=
"Lime Tahiti Distilled" is the zesty one
"Lime Tahiti Cold-Pressed" is the sour lime juice one

(I wish FA hadn't made the change about a year ago, adding "Tahtiti" to both names)

Can you use one as a substitute for the other?

Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk

 

[HeadInClouds]

Can you use one as a substitute for the other?

It depends on your preferences and the recipe. Any time you add (let's see if I can get this name right) Lime Tahiti Cold-Pressed )) you will taste sour lime juice. Even 0.5% in most recipes, and you have some limeade in there. Now, Lime Tahiti Distilled has 2 faces. It can be a really sharp lime zest flavor if other flavors in your recipe also have sharp flavor. Or it can be like a lime popsicle, especially when creamy-sweet flavors are used with it. Or you can use both together for a really full, complete lime flavor, like lime slices muddled for a cocktail. I wouldn't be without both of them, honestly. Lime Tahiti Cold-Pressed is similar to TFA Key Lime. I don't know of any other brand with something like Lime Tahiti Distilled.

 

[bkind]

It depends on your preferences and the recipe. Any time you add (let's see if I can get this name right) Lime Tahiti Cold-Pressed )) you will taste sour lime juice. Even 0.5% in most recipes, and you have some limeade in there. Now, Lime Tahiti Distilled has 2 faces. It can be a really sharp lime zest flavor if other flavors in your recipe also have sharp flavor. Or it can be like a lime popsicle, especially when creamy-sweet flavors are used with it. Or you can use both together for a really full, complete lime flavor, like lime slices muddled for a cocktail. I wouldn't be without both of them, honestly. Lime Tahiti Cold-Pressed is similar to TFA Key Lime. I don't know of any other brand with something like Lime Tahiti Distilled.

Thank you sir for your explanation. Gotta get that cold press to have on hand!

 

[wllmc]

@juicy76 Cmon, you mean to tell me you wouldn't vape a pickle flavored vape? Maybe we should call up @wllmc ...

pickle would be awesome

 

[joeyboy]

pickle would be awesome

Yeah, maybe with a hint of garlic.

 

[RyGon]

pickle would be awesome

My wife thinks they are gross, but my daughter and I love peanut butter and pickle sandwiches. Still don't think I want to vape that.

 

[Teresa P]

My wife thinks they are gross, but my daughter and I love peanut butter and pickle sandwiches. Still don't think I want to vape that.

....lol!

 

[RyGon]

....lol!

It's a real thing, I didn't make it up or anything. Try it out they are delicious! Dill pickles BTW.

 

[Teresa P]

Oh, if the pickle ain't dill, I ain't eatin' it. LOL! I'll try it, I'm flexible like that.....

 

[joeyboy]

Oh, if the pickle ain't dill, I ain't eatin' it. LOL! I'll try it, I'm flexible like that.....

Pass her the gherkins.

 

[juicy76]

Uggggg I think I just threw up in my mouth a bit....lol....um....? Hell no. No me