Friends, help a brother out.

[elephantstone]

Hello guys, a long time lurker here, however this is my first post. I'm sorry in advance if this is in the wrong place, and im sorry as this is likely asked way too often!

I'd like to thank the countless people who share their knowledge here. You've helped me kick a dirty smoking habit...maybe even saved my life in terms of health benefits further down the line.

Im fairly new to DIY. However over the past month or so, thanks to the amount of recipie posted here, I've been able to mix up some wonderful liquids following these instructions. A lot of the HIC ones have been great.

Now on to my problem... it may sound simple but I've been trying to make the following (These have all had a 3 day steep)

A Strawberry Cheesecake:

• TFA Cheesecake Graham Crust 6%
• TFA Strawberry ripe 10 %
• FA Fresh Cream 2%

To my taste, it lacks sweetness, lacks that bright cream filling you'd expect, the strawberry seems faint despite being at 10%. The Graham is quite present. Do FA Creams require a long steep?

===========================================================================
A Strawnanna Cream

• TFA banana cream 5.5%
  
• TFA Strawberry Ripe 10%

Its not bad, but again lacks a light sweet pop, I cannot feel the cream too much from the TFA Banana Cream Strawberry is very faint...any recommendations friends?

=============================================================================
Banana milk

• FA Fresh Cream 1%
  
• TFA Dairy Milk 0.20%
  
• FA Meringue 1.70%
  
• TFA Banana Cream 6%
  
• TFA Sweetner 1%

Doesn't really taste like a Banana Milk at all...I cant describe the taste, its almost like theres no layering and its conjured into a big mess... the meringue is quite strong. Faint Banana.
===============================================================================

I understand people are busy, but if anyone with more experience could give me some tips or recommended suggestions? I've been trying to create these flavors for over a month and these flavorings are hard to come by in Thailand and also really expensive!

Here is the stuff I have in my arsenal so far. Also if any friends have any recipie that they enjoy and are makeable with my stash, please don't hesitate to throw it in there! Anything you think I could mix up from what I have below. Thank you so much friends!

Apple Pie (FA)
Booster (Tiramisu) (FA)
Caramel Candy (TPA)
Catalan Cream (FA)
Cheesecake (Graham Crust) (TPA)
Cream Fresh (FA)
Custard (FA)
Dairy Milk (TPA)
Banana Cream (TPA)
Peanut Butter (TPA)
TFA Sweetner
Kiwi (FA)
Kiwi Double (TPA)
Koolada (TPA)
Marzipan (FA)
Meringue (FA)
Papaya (TPA)
Pineapple (FA)
Pomegranate (FA)
Pomegranate Deluxe (TPA)
Salted Caramel (FW)
Strawberry (Ripe) (TPA)
Sweet Tangerine (Cap)
Vanilla Cupcake (TPA)
Vienna Cream (FA)
Zeppola (FA)

 

[bobnat]

Regarding the strawberry ripe, it's not that strong by itself. In fact, just about every strawberry flavor out there benefits greatly from mixing with other strawberries. They also can be benefit from other flavors such as lemon, cactus, dragonfruit and pear. These have the effect of making them more vibrant and juicier.

Try this one. Kiwi Cheesecake

Cheesecake, GC 3%
Kiwi, FA 4%
Meringue 2%
If you want, you can add a small amount of sweetener but try it without first. Let it sit for 3 days.

 

[AndriaD]

The only strawberry flavor that really deserves the name is Inawera Shisha Strawberry. All the others may smell nice, but have no taste at all. If you substituted INW Shisha Strawberry at that same percentage, you'd definitely taste strawberry! Because the TFA cheesecake graham is more graham than cheesecake, you also may want to add some Lor-Ann Cream Cheese Icing, which will both boost the cream-cheese flavor, and also help sweeten the mix (the Shisha Strawberry is also pretty sweet). If you used those 2 flavors in the mix and it's still not sweet enough, then you need to get some TFA Sweetener, and use at least .5%, maybe a whole 1%.

Also -- you didn't mention how long since you quit smoking, but that can play a HUGE role in your ability to taste anything. Don't be afraid to use what appear to be WHOPPING amounts of flavor, if you're still in your first year as a non-smoker, maybe even first 2 yrs -- it was nearly 2.5 yrs before I could begin reducing even the sweetener -- I used 2.5% at first, just so I could taste the sweetness. Now I use no sweetener at all, but I got there very slowly and gradually.

Andria

 

[eStorm]

A Strawberry Cheesecake:

• TFA Cheesecake Graham Crust 6%
• TFA Strawberry ripe 10 %
• FA Fresh Cream 2%

To my taste, it lacks sweetness, lacks that bright cream filling you'd expect, the strawberry seems faint despite being at 10%. The Graham is quite present. Do FA Creams require a long steep?

(TFA) cheesecake graham crust contains ethyl maltol and vanillin. Both can mute and wash out your overall flavor, as well as masking top and back notes of other flavors. Try 1-4% in a mix, if you want that graham crust add a supportive flavor that contains a "crust" as well, example (FA) cookie, (PUR) cookie, (CAP) sugar cookie, (INW) biscuit and so on. It doesn't taste like cheesecake and lacks the actual cream. If that's what you wanted, (CAP) New York cheesecake is your friend, as well as other cheesecakes. Stay away from (TPA) cheesecake tho, unless you like rotten butter

(TFA) strawberry ripe contains ethyl maltol, and mutes just as above, but now together with CGC it will be worse. Also that strawberry as mentioned by others already is not a stand alone flavor, its more of a support for other SBs and fruits. In other words its a secondary and I wouldn't go above 5% with it, unless its a shake and vape with harsher more potent flavors, I'd like too cover with it. Better used between 1-4%

(FA) fresh cream is a great blank cream, or can also be used with a other supportive to create milk, especially milk for cereals. I assume you put it here too support the cheesecake you thought cracker had, good idea if you actually had a other cream or marshmallow etc. Its not very strong by itself taste wise, but rather effect wise, meaning that if you wanted a strawberry cream, this as only cream is not going to get you there. After you made changes to the ingredients above, and not run high EM percentage, try adding meringue or Vienna cream or Bavarian cream to it at low percent. But I would just grab a light custard or/and a ice cream if you plan on strawberry cream/strawberry and cream and not strawberry cheesecake or strawberry milk.

Its my bday today, so I'll add more to the other recipes you asked about later, just thought a quick response for the first recipe would maybe be helpful.

 

[bobnat]

The only strawberry flavor that really deserves the name is Inawera Shisha Strawberry. All the others may smell nice, but have no taste at all. If you substituted INW Shisha Strawberry at that same percentage, you'd definitely taste strawberry! Because the TFA cheesecake graham is more graham than cheesecake, you also may want to add some Lor-Ann Cream Cheese Icing, which will both boost the cream-cheese flavor, and also help sweeten the mix (the Shisha Strawberry is also pretty sweet). If you used those 2 flavors in the mix and it's still not sweet enough, then you need to get some TFA Sweetener, and use at least .5%, maybe a whole 1%.

Also -- you didn't mention how long since you quit smoking, but that can play a HUGE role in your ability to taste anything. Don't be afraid to use what appear to be WHOPPING amounts of flavor, if you're still in your first year as a non-smoker, maybe even first 2 yrs -- it was nearly 2.5 yrs before I could begin reducing even the sweetener -- I used 2.5% at first, just so I could taste the sweetness. Now I use no sweetener at all, but I got there very slowly and gradually.

Andria

Strawberry Shisha is the only one I use by itself, but always mixed with another fruit.

I did an inventory the other week and, like many of us, I have more strawberry flavors than any other. Yet, I don't have one ADV recipe where it's the star flavor. What a waste of time and money.

 

[AndriaD]

Strawberry Shisha is the only one I use by itself, but always mixed with another fruit.

I did an inventory the other week and, like many of us, I have more strawberry flavors than any other. Yet, I don't have one ADV recipe where it's the star flavor. What a waste of time and money.

I think, in my own case, the reason I don't mix fruits flavors is mainly just that I don't care for a mixed-fruit flavor, EXCEPT! for blueberry and banana, which to me, just go together. But my strawberry & cream has been my ADV since Dec 2014 -- I've mixed a few others that were pretty good, but my S&C is just the best vape I've ever tried. But, I've gone from 31.5% flavoring, to its current 24.5%; most of the reduction has been in the last year, when my tastebuds finally started working again. Most don't seem to take that long to return to something like normalcy, and I suspect also that mine were more severely impaired than a lot of others'. But that's why I always advise new mixers not to be afraid to really go nuts with flavoring, if they're having a hard time tasting their vape; most flavors do get stronger, the more you use -- except, obviously, for TFA's blueberry extra -- above 8% and it just vanishes.

Andria

 

[bobnat]

I think, in my own case, the reason I don't mix fruits flavors is mainly just that I don't care for a mixed-fruit flavor, EXCEPT! for blueberry and banana, which to me, just go together. But my strawberry & cream has been my ADV since Dec 2014 -- I've mixed a few others that were pretty good, but my S&C is just the best vape I've ever tried. But, I've gone from 31.5% flavoring, to its current 24.5%; most of the reduction has been in the last year, when my tastebuds finally started working again. Most don't seem to take that long to return to something like normalcy, and I suspect also that mine were more severely impaired than a lot of others'. But that's why I always advise new mixers not to be afraid to really go nuts with flavoring, if they're having a hard time tasting their vape; most flavors do get stronger, the more you use -- except, obviously, for TFA's blueberry extra -- above 8% and it just vanishes.

Andria

I've never tried Blueberry and Banana. That's going on the to do list.

 

[elephantstone]

Regarding the strawberry ripe, it's not that strong by itself. In fact, just about every strawberry flavor out there benefits greatly from mixing with other strawberries. They also can be benefit from other flavors such as lemon, cactus, dragonfruit and pear. These have the effect of making them more vibrant and juicier.

Try this one. Kiwi Cheesecake

Cheesecake, GC 3%
Kiwi, FA 4%
Meringue 2%
If you want, you can add a small amount of sweetener but try it without first. Let it sit for 3 days.

Thanks so much to everyone taking the time to reply and get back to me.
So I just whipped this up after work and as a s&v it already tastes great, I can see where this will be in three days time. The meringue and kiwi play off each other in a great way, almost a tangy sensation. Thanks so much, thoroughly enjoying this one!

The only strawberry flavor that really deserves the name is Inawera Shisha Strawberry. All the others may smell nice, but have no taste at all. If you substituted INW Shisha Strawberry at that same percentage, you'd definitely taste strawberry! Because the TFA cheesecake graham is more graham than cheesecake, you also may want to add some Lor-Ann Cream Cheese Icing, which will both boost the cream-cheese flavor, and also help sweeten the mix (the Shisha Strawberry is also pretty sweet). If you used those 2 flavors in the mix and it's still not sweet enough, then you need to get some TFA Sweetener, and use at least .5%, maybe a whole 1%.

Also -- you didn't mention how long since you quit smoking, but that can play a HUGE role in your ability to taste anything. Don't be afraid to use what appear to be WHOPPING amounts of flavor, if you're still in your first year as a non-smoker, maybe even first 2 yrs -- it was nearly 2.5 yrs before I could begin reducing even the sweetener -- I used 2.5% at first, just so I could taste the sweetness. Now I use no sweetener at all, but I got there very slowly and gradually.

Andria

Hey Andria, sister, I've been off the ciggs for a year or so, therefore I think my taste isn't too far gone. This knowledge is really useful to me, I saw that Strawberry Ripe was used a lot, therefore I presumed that it must be a popular and decent flavor. I will be sure to try to get my hands on INW Shisha Strawberry, if its hard to get here in Thailand, would you recommend any other strawberries besides that one? I think the two FA Strawberries are available here, along with Capella. or are INW in a league of their own with regards to strawberry so to speak?

Arrgggh again, another error on my part, I presumed that because TFA have both Cheesecake Graham Cracker, and just TFA Grahamcracker, the latter must also have the cheesecake component aswell. If I were to get Lor-Ann Cheeseicing, aswell as CAP Newyork Cheesecake as recommended by another brother in this thread, would the TFA Cheesecake grahamcracker still have any use in a Cheesecake recipie or would that have to go down the loo?

A Strawberry Cheesecake:

• TFA Cheesecake Graham Crust 6%
• TFA Strawberry ripe 10 %
• FA Fresh Cream 2%

To my taste, it lacks sweetness, lacks that bright cream filling you'd expect, the strawberry seems faint despite being at 10%. The Graham is quite present. Do FA Creams require a long steep?

(TFA) cheesecake graham crust contains ethyl maltol and vanillin. Both can mute and wash out your overall flavor, as well as masking top and back notes of other flavors. Try 1-4% in a mix, if you want that graham crust add a supportive flavor that contains a "crust" as well, example (FA) cookie, (PUR) cookie, (CAP) sugar cookie, (INW) biscuit and so on. It doesn't taste like cheesecake and lacks the actual cream. If that's what you wanted, (CAP) New York cheesecake is your friend, as well as other cheesecakes. Stay away from (TPA) cheesecake tho, unless you like rotten butter

(TFA) strawberry ripe contains ethyl maltol, and mutes just as above, but now together with CGC it will be worse. Also that strawberry as mentioned by others already is not a stand alone flavor, its more of a support for other SBs and fruits. In other words its a secondary and I wouldn't go above 5% with it, unless its a shake and vape with harsher more potent flavors, I'd like too cover with it. Better used between 1-4%

(FA) fresh cream is a great blank cream, or can also be used with a other supportive to create milk, especially milk for cereals. I assume you put it here too support the cheesecake you thought cracker had, good idea if you actually had a other cream or marshmallow etc. Its not very strong by itself taste wise, but rather effect wise, meaning that if you wanted a strawberry cream, this as only cream is not going to get you there. After you made changes to the ingredients above, and not run high EM percentage, try adding meringue or Vienna cream or Bavarian cream to it at low percent. But I would just grab a light custard or/and a ice cream if you plan on strawberry cream/strawberry and cream and not strawberry cheesecake or strawberry milk.

Its my bday today, so I'll add more to the other recipes you asked about later, just thought a quick response for the first recipe would maybe be helpful.

This is a MASSIVE amount of knowledge to me, things I never even considered due to having little knowledge, thank you for taking the time to both share and explain in a manner that is easy for a noobie to understand. It was the lack of cream, the lack of creaminess that I was really trying to chase, therefore if I subbed TFA Cheesecake Grahamcrust for CAP Newyork Cheesecake, would this get me where I wanted to be? Does my TFA Cheesecake have any use? or is it a dud purchase? Im really curious about FA Cookie - is this simple to use? I mean alone does it form a cookie base that can easily be paired with a fruit (blueberry, banana for example?) or is it more of an additive to be combined with other crust/biscuit type flavours?

Sorry to bombard you with questions brother, however, I really also lack an icecream - are there any flavours you would recommend that are both easy to use, and give you a rich vanilla icecream… doesn't need to be an authentic Italian one, more of a sugar filled McDonalds icecream. (Can I make an icecream with my FA Cream Fresh + Vienna Cream, Catalan Cream and custard? or would these never really get me there?)

Happy Birthday brother, and thanks for giving up your time during the celebrations

 

[AndriaD]

Hey Andria, sister, I've been off the ciggs for a year or so, therefore I think my taste isn't too far gone. This knowledge is really useful to me, I saw that Strawberry Ripe was used a lot, therefore I presumed that it must be a popular and decent flavor. I will be sure to try to get my hands on INW Shisha Strawberry, if its hard to get here in Thailand, would you recommend any other strawberries besides that one? I think the two FA Strawberries are available here, along with Capella. or are INW in a league of their own with regards to strawberry so to speak?

Arrgggh again, another error on my part, I presumed that because TFA have both Cheesecake Graham Cracker, and just TFA Grahamcracker, the latter must also have the cheesecake component aswell. If I were to get Lor-Ann Cheeseicing, aswell as CAP Newyork Cheesecake as recommended by another brother in this thread, would the TFA Cheesecake grahamcracker still have any use in a Cheesecake recipie or would that have to go down the loo?

Does my TFA Cheesecake have any use? or is it a dud purchase? Im really curious about FA Cookie - is this simple to use? I mean alone does it form a cookie base that can easily be paired with a fruit (blueberry, banana for example?) or is it more of an additive to be combined with other crust/biscuit type flavours?

Depending on how long you smoked, and of course, your own personal body, you may still have some muting of flavor, but it should be *mostly* back to "normal" -- but every body is different; it took me nearly 2 1/2 yrs to start reducing any of the flavors at all, and it was only the sweetener I started finding "too much" at first; once I got it down to a very minuscule level, I started noticing that the other flavors needed some reducing, too.

I don't think the TFA cheesecake graham is entirely useless, not at all; for any type of a "pie" sort of flavor, it's really useful; the graham part for the crust of course, and the lil bit of "cheesecakiness" just to give a bit more richness to whatever is the main flavor. But for an actual cheesecake mix of any type, it just needs some goosing up with something else that has a more pronounced cheesecake/cream cheese flavor. The LorAnn cream cheese icing fits that bill very nicely, especially as you said that your mix wasn't very sweet.

I can't say how available Inawera flavors are in your country. I do know that Inawera is based in Poland; I had good luck ordering INW flavors from e-aromashop.com, though lately I've been ordering INW from a US vendor, to save on shipping and of course shipping TIME. Of the ones you mentioned having, I think the FA strawberries are probably the best; FA tends to make very strong flavoring, as does INW. There's another that others have mentioned, though it doesn't leap to mind... "Real Flavors" maybe? I dunno -- once I found Inawera, I didn't look any further, because their shisha strawberry is IT, at least for me. Their regular strawberry, I think it's called Strawberry Kiss, I've heard others say is definitely NOT "it", but their shisha strawberry is terrific.

FA Cookie I've heard is pretty good -- ditto for INW Biscuit, which apparently is what some countries call cookies. I know that INW's version is so strong, it can overtake a recipe completely, so making a 10% pre-mix of it to use in recipes may be a good idea. I don't know if FA's cookie is *that* strong, but since they do make strong flavors, it very well might be. INW's Biscuit, to me, tastes like butter shortbread.

Andria

 

[eStorm]

This is a MASSIVE amount of knowledge to me, things I never even considered due to having little knowledge, thank you for taking the time to both share and explain in a manner that is easy for a noobie to understand. It was the lack of cream, the lack of creaminess that I was really trying to chase, therefore if I subbed TFA Cheesecake Grahamcrust for CAP Newyork Cheesecake, would this get me where I wanted to be? Does my TFA Cheesecake have any use? or is it a dud purchase? Im really curious about FA Cookie - is this simple to use? I mean alone does it form a cookie base that can easily be paired with a fruit (blueberry, banana for example?) or is it more of an additive to be combined with other crust/biscuit type flavours?

Sorry to bombard you with questions brother, however, I really also lack an icecream - are there any flavours you would recommend that are both easy to use, and give you a rich vanilla icecream… doesn't need to be an authentic Italian one, more of a sugar filled McDonalds icecream. (Can I make an icecream with my FA Cream Fresh + Vienna Cream, Catalan Cream and custard? or would these never really get me there?)

Happy Birthday brother, and thanks for giving up your time during the celebrations

Your cheesecake graham crust does have its purpose, overall its not a bad flavor. You can use it as crusts in other recipes, as well as a booster. New York cheesecake is the ingredient we want here tho, since you were aiming for a strawberry creme rather than actually a bakery recipe.

Unfortunately you didn't list a other strawberry, so I'm going to suggest a other combo with the flavors you've listed above, to get some depth into that recipe, which might give the impression of a more/better overall profile at the end.

Try a combo out of strawberry ripe, kiwi and papaya. Mix that with your fresh cream and Vienna cream. If you like it sweet, add 0.15-0.25% of sweetener.

Another combo would be the new York cheesecake, together with the custard and a small amount of meringue. Adding a tiny bit of the graham crust and vanilla cupcake would make a simple bakery recipe.

Banana cream with your custard and strawberry would be nice as well. fresh cream and meringue, plus a fruit etc, you've got plenty of options here.


Cookie is not difficult too use, infact you could add your graham crust here as well, not the perfect combo but its diy. Nothing is perfect or right and/or wrong. Whatever you like is the only rule you should be going by.

We all know there's never a moment were you don't buy flavors, but that's a simple answer mostly and not the goal here. You got, lots too work with. Learn how to use these flavors first, then buy more. Otherwise you might be overwhelmed at the end.

I would also suggest using ELR and reading the notes of flavors that are from interest too you. It might help finding the starting percentages and so on.

 

[Teresa P]

TFA cheesecake graham crust does have cheesecake nuances, but it's gonna take longer than 3 days for them to "come out." Mixing in some of another vendor's cheesecake flavoring will help. Capella's New York cheesecake is just cheesecake, no crust. In my opinion, Lorann's cheesecake is one of the best. Flavor West cheesecake is excellent. I've been toying with Vape Train cheesecake, which is a very authentic cheesecake flavor, but is also high in butyric acid and must be used in small doses to avoid that "barf" flavor. Inawera's Yes, We Cheesecake is wonderful after a 10-14 day steep, before that it just tastes like coconut. ...lol!
A combination of TFA strawberry ripe and Capella sweet strawberry is pretty popular, but there are several others you can add to get the sweetness you're after. A little "trick of the trade" to make any fruit flavors "pop" is to add a few drops of raspberry.

 

[Letitia9]

. A little "trick of the trade" to make any fruit flavors "pop" is to add a few drops of raspberry.

FA kiwi is great for this as well, especially if the fruit is too sweet.

 

[wildgypsy70]

Your cheesecake graham crust does have its purpose, overall its not a bad flavor. You can use it as crusts in other recipes, as well as a booster. New York cheesecake is the ingredient we want here tho, since you were aiming for a strawberry creme rather than actually a bakery recipe.

Unfortunately you didn't list a other strawberry, so I'm going to suggest a other combo with the flavors you've listed above, to get some depth into that recipe, which might give the impression of a more/better overall profile at the end.

Try a combo out of strawberry ripe, kiwi and papaya. Mix that with your fresh cream and Vienna cream. If you like it sweet, add 0.15-0.25% of sweetener.

Another combo would be the new York cheesecake, together with the custard and a small amount of meringue. Adding a tiny bit of the graham crust and vanilla cupcake would make a simple bakery recipe.

Banana cream with your custard and strawberry would be nice as well. fresh cream and meringue, plus a fruit etc, you've got plenty of options here.


Cookie is not difficult too use, infact you could add your graham crust here as well, not the perfect combo but its diy. Nothing is perfect or right and/or wrong. Whatever you like is the only rule you should be going by.

We all know there's never a moment were you don't buy flavors, but that's a simple answer mostly and not the goal here. You got, lots too work with. Learn how to use these flavors first, then buy more. Otherwise you might be overwhelmed at the end.

I would also suggest using ELR and reading the notes of flavors that are from interest too you. It might help finding the starting percentages and so on.

+1 to all of this..... and setting up an account at ELR....then inputting all your flavors and hitting “what Can I make”. It will give you some starting points. Looks like you have a good amount of flavors that can work with each other. Good luck! Welcome to diy! ( my apologies if someone already suggested the ELR thing.)

 

[RonJS]

TFA cheesecake graham crust does have cheesecake nuances, but it's gonna take longer than 3 days for them to "come out." Mixing in some of another vendor's cheesecake flavoring will help. Capella's New York cheesecake is just cheesecake, no crust. In my opinion, Lorann's cheesecake is one of the best. Flavor West cheesecake is excellent. I've been toying with Vape Train cheesecake, which is a very authentic cheesecake flavor, but is also high in butyric acid and must be used in small doses to avoid that "barf" flavor. Inawera's Yes, We Cheesecake is wonderful after a 10-14 day steep, before that it just tastes like coconut. ...lol!

I read your post twice and could find nothing regarding that “other” cheesecake? (FA Nonna’s Cake)

I better read it a third time.

 

[Teresa P]

I read your post twice and could find nothing regarding that “other” cheesecake? (FA Nonna’s Cake)

I better read it a third time.

Probably because I don't think Nonna's tastes like cheesecake.

 

[RonJS]

Probably because I don't think Nonna's tastes like cheesecake.

Completely Understandable ...but it’s supposed to.. me thinks...

 

[Teresa P]

Completely Understandable ...but it’s supposed to.. me thinks...

I've always thought that flavor was more like a tinge of ricotta in TFA red velvet cake. I remember after all the hype when it came out, I finally got some; and I remember after I tried it thinking "It tastes just like TFA red velvet...expensive TFA red velvet..." And that flavor certainly has a love/hate relationship with everyone who's had it. I always liked it myself, but not enough to pay twice as much for it with a FA label.

 

[eStorm]

Oh that's what its supposed to taste like? All I get is nutmeg and eggnog with a very moldy milk note... Thought that if FA really has Italian routes, the dead grandmother is going to rise from the dead and slaps some bitch. Nothing authentic about that flavor....BUT if its supposed to be a cheesecake then it might be more accurate, at least the 80 year old rotten milk/cheese note is clearly there lmao