Has 8/8 had an effect on you yet? Share your story here.

[JuicyLucy]

I suspect many of us overlooked the impact of age verification on our post 8/8 vaping choices.
The stuff is still out there, but now you have to put a bit more skin in the game and open yourself up to more scrutiny than you may want.
Definitely inhibiting for me in the online buys.

Yep.

Can't tell you how glad I am that I stockpiled as I refuse to give up that much info so many places are demanding and I do not have easy access to an actual B & M.

After reading this http://www.clivebates.com/documents/FDAresponse.pdf (first posted by @inspects) I am very confident I made the right decision.

 

[outwest]

I'd have to dig to verify, but I am fairly certain that is is ILLEGAL on a Federal level to require the use of SS# like this. I believe they can ask, but can not require it. It is a number intended for use to identify you for SOCIAL SECURITY - and not intended as a general all-purpose unique ID number.
I could be wrong, but I think they HAVE to have an alternate method of verification or id assignment. May not be as EASY, but I think they have to offer another option.

A govt agency (aside from ppl such as IRS or Soc Sec) cannot require it, but a private company can (though they too, should, from a moral standpoint, have alternatives in place).

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[Mattp169]

@Doots
you do not have to use any online age verification system, the fda does not require it.

you only have to NOT SELL TO MINORS

so lets come up with a few options for you that cost you little to nothing.
now since you sell your juice at a reasonable price your markup is not high
most DIYers could calculate your approximate COGS minus labor.
so for you using the $6 shipping for USPS adult signature restricted and giving that away free would be a no go on a single 30 ml bottle
but iof someone were buying many many bottles say 15 or more, then thats a scenario where the $6 fee could be done free.

so my suggestion is this

1. offer bluecheck if you feel YOU HAVE TO..but I would just stop wasting my money on it period
2. offer adult signature restricted delivery as a choice and charge the customer the $6... it may turn away people ordering 1 or 2 bottles but may make them buy more bottle at once incresing your profit per order so the can amoratize that $6 fee
3. offer adult signature restricted delivery as a free option on orders you feel are large enough to do that - which would encourage people to buy more at one time as well
4. offer the option to email in a selfie with govt id...that they can block out the DL if they want but it must clearly show age and the address must match the shipping address
5. offer the option to start a skype or video chat of some sort. then you can verify the person with id or whatever, they can see you are not writing it down or anything else

once you age verify someone , your software should be able to allow you to mark that account as verified, like in some comments section etc. Once verified you could reasonable sell to that account without worry of age verifying it everytime. to insure it even more, if your software allows, it could force teh customer to reset passwords every month or something so you know itsnot their children using the account. but lets look at that
if you age verify me say using skype video chat. mark my account as verified. my tennage son gets the password and orders and has my cc number etc and gets your juice. Did you sell to him or me? You sold to me.....now will the FDA see it the same way...possibly not, but thats not the scenario teh FDA is going to setup to bust you. They are going to use some 17 year old kid to create a new account and try to get you to sell to him. because if they used say my account which you already verified, they would need my permission to do this and in that case it might be considered entrapment
the use of accounts online is different then someone walking into the gas station and buying cigarettes.
so this is a case where you pay a lawyer a few dollars to figure out liability to save you from spending all this ridiculous money on online age verification systems, which can be fooled, bypassed etc. It is actually easier for a child to get around bluecheck then it is for a kid to go buy a 6 pack of beer from a local liquor store.

Now yes i recognize that the methods I am saying to verify age are labor intensive on your part...... but I do believe and a lawyer could easily check your liability, that all these methods need be done only ONCE per account. So while every other site is requiring reverification you are not and you are building up a loyal customer base who is spreadingword of mouth of how easy it is to order form you compared to other sites.

Now this is all common sense to me, and I may be 100% wrong, so check with a laywer, but retailers had months of warning to get this figured out and in place.
I wish you the best of luck and continued success in your business.

 

[Doots]

good points you make Matt.

I can see making refunds to people that paid but will not send in photos.. Now with that said, I think you have some great ideas.

 

[Doots]

We will give the -send in your photo- a try and see how good it works out.
Have thought about doing this.
We have been using this procedure since Oct1st for Texas residents as Texas requires us to only ship using this method or 3rd party database.

Thanks for the ideas Matt!

 

[Barbara E.]

<snip>

As far as B&M, I know of one already that was inspected this week by the ATF and made to toss all of their juice as they had not applied as a registered manufacturer and their bottles didn't have child proof caps.

-Sean@RBV

The reason they had to toss the bottles was because they didn't have child-proof caps. That has nothing to do with the FDA - it was a law passed by Congress and signed by the President in January. (Child Nicotine Poisoning Prevention Act of 2015”, introduced by Senator Bill Nelson (D-Florida), Senator Kelly Ayotte (R-New Hampshire), and 20 other U.S. senators.) It took effect on July 25th, 2016.

No one is required to file as a 'registered manufacturer' until the end of the year.

 

[Ms. Trixy]

Would someone answer a question from uneducated vaper of the 8/8 apocalypse?

In 18 month +/-, what will happen to the average Joe who has his/her own new equipment to sell? Ramifications? I know they gave us a half an inch of breathing room to research vaping further. But I want to know if worse case, or even mid case, are we all going underground? No more selling here, ebay, Craig's List, Reddit....

I'm at a Flash Sale and need to know pretty quickly, please before I dump 10 large. Thanks.

 

[hashtagvapemail]

Would someone answer a question from uneducated vaper of the 8/8 apocalypse?

In 18 month +/-, what will happen to the average Joe who has his/her own new equipment to sell? Ramifications? I know they gave us a half an inch of breathing room to research vaping further. But I want to know if worse case, or even mid case, are we all going underground? No more selling here, ebay, Craig's List, Reddit....

I'm at a Flash Sale and need to know pretty quickly, please before I dump 10 large. Thanks.

EDIT
I read this and incorrectly concluded this person was talking about jumping right away into a big inventory purchase for a new business start up, that's what my comments here are predicated on (re-reading my post I don't know that I communicated that very well upfront, and want to make that presumption of mine clear).


If you don't know the answer to this question, you need to keep your 10K in your pocket and read up on this stuff so you can make an informed risk assessment for your family or your company. There is a lot happening and you need to be very aware of all the dates, who needs to do what by when, and what it might mean if they don't.

Otherwise, you may very well not end up buying 10k of stuff to sell, you just may end up with 10k of stuff that you can't sell legally.

Please cool your jets for a bit, go to the FDA site and read up on all the information they have posted and draw your own conclusions. Then I'd suggest you sit on it for a few days and think about how this will shape the industry. No one will fight the power on this, they are empowered by the US government to make the rules and they will bankrupt you if you don't follow them without remorse. If you're dropping that kind of money you will be able to get a deal later. Any supplier that is willing to have you drop money like that when you have doubts isn't looking for a long term relationship, they're looking for a quick turn (which may just mean they want to dump the hot potatoe in your lap and get it out of theirs).

Be cautious, for the sake of your family or your investors, there is time to make these decisions, don't let a 'flash sale' sway you. Opening a business like this at this point is not something to be done in a hasty manner, not anymore, it's a different world and will continue to change. You need to make sure that you're down for what you're signing up for.

I don't say any of this to be patronising or in any way insult you. The nature of the question leads me to believe that you want to open something (or maybe already have), and you're being pressured by a salesperson to drop a lot of capital. I would hate to have anyone step into this thinking that it works the way it did just a few short years ago, because it doesn't anymore. If you haven't given all of that a lot of thought, I'd beg you to do that and go in with your eyes wide open.

 

[Whiskey]

 

[Ms. Trixy]

If you don't know the answer to this question, you need to keep your 10K in your pocket and read up on this stuff so you can make an informed risk assessment for your family or your company. There is a lot happening and you need to be very aware of all the dates, who needs to do what by when, and what it might mean if they don't.

Otherwise, you may very well not end up buying 10k of stuff to sell, you just may end up with 10k of stuff that you can't sell legally.

Please cool your jets for a bit, go to the FDA site and read up on all the information they have posted and draw your own conclusions. Then I'd suggest you sit on it for a few days and think about how this will shape the industry. No one will fight the power on this, they are empowered by the US government to make the rules and they will bankrupt you if you don't follow them without remorse. If you're dropping that kind of money you will be able to get a deal later. Any supplier that is willing to have you drop money like that when you have doubts isn't looking for a long term relationship, they're looking for a quick turn (which may just mean they want to dump the hot potatoe in your lap and get it out of theirs).

Be cautious, for the sake of your family or your investors, there is time to make these decisions, don't let a 'flash sale' sway you. Opening a business like this at this point is not something to be done in a hasty manner, not anymore, it's a different world and will continue to change. You need to make sure that you're down for what you're signing up for.

I don't say any of this to be patronising or in any way insult you. The nature of the question leads me to believe that you want to open something (or maybe already have), and you're being pressured by a salesperson to drop a lot of capital. I would hate to have anyone step into this thinking that it works the way it did just a few short years ago, because it doesn't anymore. If you haven't given all of that a lot of thought, I'd beg you to do that and go in with your eyes wide open.

I'm not spending 10k!!! Large as in $100. I hit some sales last night and they added up to a around $7-800. It's mostly stuff that I didn't order before that I would like to personally try and offer to members at some point in time. I'm seriously thinking of canceling the order and buying myself a Q Class in red for myself. Actually, I'll do that. I seem to buy when Flash sales are too good to pass up. That's when I get myself in trouble.

You're right. I 'DO' need to read more on the Regs and keep up with changes. I was hoping someone would chime in late last night with an objective opinion as you just gave me. You just saved me from myself, HashTag. Thank you for pointing your finger at me with a lesson in educating myself.

Whiskey, your post is well taken.

 

[Whiskey]

 

[hashtagvapemail]

I'm not spending 10k!!! Large as in $100. I hit some sales last night and they added up to a around $7-800. It's mostly stuff that I didn't order before that I would like to personally try and offer to members at some point in time. I'm seriously thinking of canceling the order and buying myself a Q Class in red for myself. Actually, I'll do that. I seem to buy when Flash sales are too good to pass up. That's when I get myself in trouble.

You're right. I 'DO' need to read more on the Regs and keep up with changes. I was hoping someone would chime in late last night with an objective opinion as you just gave me. You just saved me from myself, HashTag. Thank you for pointing your finger at me with a lesson in educating myself.

Whiskey, your post is well taken.

Oh ok, lol sorry, I was thinking you were looking at starting up a business, 10 large clearly has a different meaning where I'm from.

I didn't want you to step capriciously into opening one of these businesses without all the info first. I wouldn't want anyone to do that without being fully aware of what they were getting into at this point. Not that it's all that terrible, it's definitely do-able, you just definitely need to have your eyes open if you do so at this point in time.

And for you, as a consumer, this stuff really won't impact you much other than some products moving on and off the market in the next year and a half. There is no part of the regulations that puts any legal liability onto consumers, it's all on the businesses, manufacturers and importers.

Very different story for business owners, but as a consumer you don't have anything to worry about.

Some people on these forums have their own views on what this will mean for consumers, and you should check out those threads. The regulations are fantastic if you have insomnia though.

 

[outwest]

As a consumer, so far the only affect it has had on me is that I've been spending way more than I should bcas of hoarding/prepping. I do know ppl that it's affected slightly because they suddenly couldn't get any support/assistance at the local shops.

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