I've been vaping for a few months now and cloud chasing has gotten my attention, I have been researching for weeks now now and still haven't gotten the hang of it like I want to. I am chucking some decent size clouds, but in my opinion there not comp ready. So I'm hoping that you cloud chasing experts can help me out some. My current setup is a snow wolf 200w limited edition mod, I have a twisted messes rda with a 8 wrap 22g nichrome build, and I have used all different types of juice from 80% vg to 100% vg. With the wicking I have perfect median between not to tight and not to loose, and I have no cotton under my coil to get better airflow to the coils. I also have the rda air flow wide open. What am I doing wrong or missing here???
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Help me out please
- Thread starter MichaelF
- Start date
Sorry I left out a little bit more info. It's a .15 ohm build at 3.8v at 90 watts
As a disclaimer, I'm no expert. I like a cloudy vape, but I'm not trying to win comps. I just like a cloudy vape that I can use all day.
The Twisted Messes RDA is a decent cloud atty, but I think it's real strengths show in how it handles intricate, high-power, high surface-area flavor builds. The low-sitting, massive cyclops airflow is great for flavor, density and cooling, but it doesn't facilitate vapor production as well as cyclone style setups that sit higher up from the deck do. It's an atty that favors builds that take up a lot of space and sit close to the deck. Even though it has a lot of chamber space and airflow volume, there's not a whole lot of airflow going under and between the coils when they're positioned in front of the airflow, so there are limits to how much vapor it can pull.
Don't get me wrong. It can chuck some serious vapor. I just think there are better atties for that. In many ways, the TM is a flavor atty. Airflow goes from the bottom up to the top.
I don't think that you're missing anything. I like to do a similar build for vapor. I do a dual 22g kanthal build at .18. It's 7 wraps @ 3mm. I keep the wicks super-loose. I don't feel any resistance at all when I feed them into the coils. I let the innate fluff of the cotton ensure contact. I also baby my wicks. Minimal manhandling. No pulling the cotton apart for fluffing. I cut strips parallel to the grain of the pad, very gently squeeze along the two sides where I cut from the pad to get the middle to expand, and finally roll it into a cylinder with absolutely no pressure. The idea is to create wide, straight pathways for the juice to run through.
I also keep the wicks VERY short... ...like maybe 5 or 6 mm on either end. It's just barely not enough for the wick to even touch the deck. Only a few little strands actually reach the bottom. My theory is that if you have wick completely touching the deck and there's juice on there, there will be more back pressure trying to hold the juice at the bottom of a one way path. It has a suction-cup effect on juice flow. Capacity notwithstanding, I think you get faster wicking if they are free-hanging because there's nothing on the bottom stopping air from replacing the juice on the ends, so juice can be pulled from the coil portion and pushed from the deck end simultaneously for more efficient movement.
That setup runs really well at 100w. It can be run all the way up to 125w without any wicking problems. It easily gives me very dense, 6-7 foot clouds with the delrin chuff top.
I'm assuming this is about what you're getting from that 22g nicrome build. That's a standard cloud-chasing build. It's a good one to practice your technique with. If you want something a notch above that, try a dual parallel with 24g kanthal. 6 wraps around a 3mm bit should read between .12 and .14. Crank that up to 150w and use the metal chuff that comes with the TM.
It's not all about the build, though. There are a ton of builds out there which perform similarly well for cloud chasing and most of them are nothing special. Don't overthink it. Pick one and stick to it. All that you need is a fast, high-surface-area, high powered build that wicks well. That's more a matter of preference than it is objective science. The particulars aren't important. Any one person's cloud build is not the cloud build. It's their cloud build.
A competition winner's best kept secret isn't what they've got under the barrel. It's not a science so much as it is a skill. The know how to make the most optimal cloud producing build ever won't win you anything if you don't have the technique.
Little things with your technique can make a huge difference.
Stand up with your shoulders slack and let your upper back slouch forward at the start. As you inhale, relax your throat and let your diaphragm (your gut muscle) do the work, just like professional vocalists do.
If you're doing it right, you will be pulling in a lot of air with very little effort. Think of your diaphragm and lungs as being a weight rigged up on a rope-and-pulley system attached to a fixed balloon. Drop the weight, and the balloon will draw in air as it is stretched. Your lungs and diaphragm work like an accordion or a bicycle pump. As the diaphragm contracts, your lungs are pulled down with it and air is drawn into them.
Your posture should change as you inhale. Allow the gradual contraction of your diaphragm/expansion of your chest to push your shoulders up/back and your back straight.
On the exhale, tilt your head up so that your throat is completely straight and arch your back slightly backwards. Slide your lower jaw and tongue forward to open up your throat a little more. Don't exhale forcefully. If you simply relax your diaphragm, the vapor will come out naturally. It's like opening a floodgate.
The best way I can think to describe the proper amount of push is to exhale as though you are blowing into your hands on a cold day. If you exhale too sharply, you'll get a fat, sparse cloud rather than a dense, elongated one. When your lungs are almost empty, purse your lips a little and "drop" your gut - when done right, this will yield a burst of air that should add at least a foot of distance.
Hopefully this helps you a little bit on your chase. Like I said, I'm no expert, but I like to chuck a cloud or two here and there.
The Twisted Messes RDA is a decent cloud atty, but I think it's real strengths show in how it handles intricate, high-power, high surface-area flavor builds. The low-sitting, massive cyclops airflow is great for flavor, density and cooling, but it doesn't facilitate vapor production as well as cyclone style setups that sit higher up from the deck do. It's an atty that favors builds that take up a lot of space and sit close to the deck. Even though it has a lot of chamber space and airflow volume, there's not a whole lot of airflow going under and between the coils when they're positioned in front of the airflow, so there are limits to how much vapor it can pull.
Don't get me wrong. It can chuck some serious vapor. I just think there are better atties for that. In many ways, the TM is a flavor atty. Airflow goes from the bottom up to the top.
I don't think that you're missing anything. I like to do a similar build for vapor. I do a dual 22g kanthal build at .18. It's 7 wraps @ 3mm. I keep the wicks super-loose. I don't feel any resistance at all when I feed them into the coils. I let the innate fluff of the cotton ensure contact. I also baby my wicks. Minimal manhandling. No pulling the cotton apart for fluffing. I cut strips parallel to the grain of the pad, very gently squeeze along the two sides where I cut from the pad to get the middle to expand, and finally roll it into a cylinder with absolutely no pressure. The idea is to create wide, straight pathways for the juice to run through.
I also keep the wicks VERY short... ...like maybe 5 or 6 mm on either end. It's just barely not enough for the wick to even touch the deck. Only a few little strands actually reach the bottom. My theory is that if you have wick completely touching the deck and there's juice on there, there will be more back pressure trying to hold the juice at the bottom of a one way path. It has a suction-cup effect on juice flow. Capacity notwithstanding, I think you get faster wicking if they are free-hanging because there's nothing on the bottom stopping air from replacing the juice on the ends, so juice can be pulled from the coil portion and pushed from the deck end simultaneously for more efficient movement.
That setup runs really well at 100w. It can be run all the way up to 125w without any wicking problems. It easily gives me very dense, 6-7 foot clouds with the delrin chuff top.
I'm assuming this is about what you're getting from that 22g nicrome build. That's a standard cloud-chasing build. It's a good one to practice your technique with. If you want something a notch above that, try a dual parallel with 24g kanthal. 6 wraps around a 3mm bit should read between .12 and .14. Crank that up to 150w and use the metal chuff that comes with the TM.
It's not all about the build, though. There are a ton of builds out there which perform similarly well for cloud chasing and most of them are nothing special. Don't overthink it. Pick one and stick to it. All that you need is a fast, high-surface-area, high powered build that wicks well. That's more a matter of preference than it is objective science. The particulars aren't important. Any one person's cloud build is not the cloud build. It's their cloud build.
A competition winner's best kept secret isn't what they've got under the barrel. It's not a science so much as it is a skill. The know how to make the most optimal cloud producing build ever won't win you anything if you don't have the technique.
Little things with your technique can make a huge difference.
Stand up with your shoulders slack and let your upper back slouch forward at the start. As you inhale, relax your throat and let your diaphragm (your gut muscle) do the work, just like professional vocalists do.
If you're doing it right, you will be pulling in a lot of air with very little effort. Think of your diaphragm and lungs as being a weight rigged up on a rope-and-pulley system attached to a fixed balloon. Drop the weight, and the balloon will draw in air as it is stretched. Your lungs and diaphragm work like an accordion or a bicycle pump. As the diaphragm contracts, your lungs are pulled down with it and air is drawn into them.
Your posture should change as you inhale. Allow the gradual contraction of your diaphragm/expansion of your chest to push your shoulders up/back and your back straight.
On the exhale, tilt your head up so that your throat is completely straight and arch your back slightly backwards. Slide your lower jaw and tongue forward to open up your throat a little more. Don't exhale forcefully. If you simply relax your diaphragm, the vapor will come out naturally. It's like opening a floodgate.
The best way I can think to describe the proper amount of push is to exhale as though you are blowing into your hands on a cold day. If you exhale too sharply, you'll get a fat, sparse cloud rather than a dense, elongated one. When your lungs are almost empty, purse your lips a little and "drop" your gut - when done right, this will yield a burst of air that should add at least a foot of distance.
Hopefully this helps you a little bit on your chase. Like I said, I'm no expert, but I like to chuck a cloud or two here and there.
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Man I think that was the best reply I have ever gotten on anything lol. Great advice!!! I was practicing the techniques your mentioned and I noticed a big difference. I also tried a dual parallel build with clapton ( don't know what gauge, a friend of mine gave me some) on the twisted messes and that made a big difference also. I also picked up a mutation vx 4 ( heard thay was a good cloud chasing rda) today also, can't wait to try that build on that rda. Thank you again for the advice, it was much appreciated.
I love all the various types of builds that I see out there that can be made.
I have built quite a few semi-advanced builds and while they are awesome, I have to be honest I find the build that I go to for clouds and flavor is a simple twisted coil.
I usually use 24gauge or 28gauge
Step one: I twist up 2 individual strands clockwise
Step two: I then twist up both individual strands of clockwise twisted wire together counter-clockwise.
Step three: I wrap 4 to 5 wraps around a 3mm screwdriver
"Pick one and stick to it."
Based on this, I have found that while many advanced builds produce great and are fun and cool to build. I continue to enjoy my simple twisted coil as mentioned above and no matter what kind of build I have nothing seems to do for me like this twisted coil does.
@robot zombie thanks for your great feedback!