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Help: Using pre-mixed base in Calculator? (now flavour advice)

Hello everyone, I have ordered a pre-mixed base from a UK website "thee e-cig shop" at 85(vg)/15(pg)
they state that after adding 15% flavoring I will hit the vg/pg and nicotine ratio advertised, and I dont mind if i go more pg on higher % concentrate recipes since the mix is already high VG.
I want to mix by weight so I have set my concentrate weight as 1.038 grams per ml considering that the concentrates are 100% PG .
so now my calculator gives me the weight of each concentrate I wish to add. is this the correct weight? and how do I calculate how much of my base to add ?
sorry this is the first batch im going to be mixing, ever, hence the stupid question. I dont want to screw it up and put myself off DIY.
 

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Lotus Insane

Silver Contributor
Member For 3 Years
Member For 2 Years
First question I have, is the base you are using already have nicotine in it? I can't say for sure what your concentrates (flavors) weights are for certain, but I would believe that they are the same weight as 100% PG weight. The premixed base is throwing me off a little bit, but I did calculate what the base would weigh and it comes out to 1.217 grams per ml.
 
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First question I have, is the base you are using already have nicotine in it? I can't say for sure what your concentrates (flavors) weights are for certain, but I would believe that they are the same weight as 100% PG weight. The premixed base is throwing me off a little bit, but I did calculate what the base would weigh and it comes out to 1.217 grams per ml.
Yes sorry I was unclear, the base has nicotine already added to it
would you know how to go about the weight you have calculated as far as integrating it into a calculator? Im thinking of using ejuicemeup as a calculator
 

jambi

Bronze Contributor
Member For 4 Years
ECF Refugee
It's not a stupid question, it's a great question. I'm probably going to screw it up with a totally confusing answer, but... *shrug*

I don't use Ejuicemeup. I use JuiceCalculator, and pondered over this same dilemma.

(You didn't disclose the nicotine level of your base, or your target nic level...)

If you're shooting for pinpoint accuracy, don't use a pre-mix.

If you're using say a 50/50 12mg base and your target is also 50/50 12mg, you'll get errors (could not add enough nic/vg to reach target) when the calc factors PG based flavors into the mix. In other words, your finished product will always be off. By how much depends on the ratio of flavors. It can be off by significant amounts if you're going above 10% flavoring.

One way around this is to use a base with higher nic than your target. That will get you to your target (lower) nic, but in doing so you're now back to having to add VG and/or PG to balance it out, which basically defeats the purpose of using a pre-mixed base.

You can custom-tailor a base to a specific flavor percentage, but then you're stuck at that exact flavor ratio for everything you make. If you tailor a base for 10% PG based flavoring, you're forced to use no more/less than 10% flavoring in everything you make. Totally impractical, and the math involved makes my head spin.

My way out of it was to compromise...trading off exactness for sheer simplicity.

My intended result is around 60/40/3mg max nic, so I pre mix at 70/30 3 mg. If I add 10% PG flavoring to that, I end up with 63/37/2.70 mg. If I add 15%, I nail it almost exactly at 59.50/40.50/2.5mg. If I add 20% flavoring (a very high ratio for me), I end up with 56/44/2.40mg...now it's getting lower in VG than I like, but 20% flavoring is a lot for me. I rarely go there.

I enter the VG/PG/nic into the calc as an ingredient "3mg base", enter it and flavors in and let it throw its errors, so I know where I'm at. My calc has default VG/PG/NIC (in whatever solution) weights pre-stored. I click "use default weights" and let it do the math.

It's a compromise, but it speeds things up so much that it's worth it for me. Honestly, I notice no difference between a 10% flavoring juice at exact ratios vs. my fudged ratios. I can't tell the difference between 2 and 3 mg nic, maybe some can.

What it looks like in my calc, notice the results box at the bottom, and the errors box next to it.
Capture2.JPG

You can also simply enter the VG/PG/NIC as separate components and then add up the totals of those 3 ingredients...that's how much base you'll use. You will still be "off" by the same amount, but your calc won't tell you any of that. I prefer to do it like above, for the calc to tell me how "off" I am.

You asked about concentrate weights of flavors ("specific gravities"). So I'm to assume that you're mixing by weight, as am I. Your 1.038 is a good average, but in reality they vary. Just as an example, here's a list of Capella sg's. It's an interesting list to review, if for nothing else than you can get an idea of the flavors that use higher amounts of alcohol (the lower weights).
https://www.reddit.com/r/DIY_eJuice/comments/2kqwow/list_of_capella_flavors_and_their_weight/
Is it practical to spend hours searching out exact sg's of your flavors and including them in your calculations? I say NO, In fact, I'd rather watch grass grow than do that, and you'll never be able to find them all anyway, (take it from me, I tried). Thus your average is great.

Personally, I use a 1 ml = 1 gram constant for PG based flavors. Again, it's for the sake of simplicity. I can do the math in my head with a round number, very handy when I want to eyeball a liquid into existence quickly. Also, pretty much every mixer out there uses the 1=1 ratio. If you're following a lot of other people's recipes, it's probably a good idea to stick with 1=1, though your 1.038 will also work fine.

More important than which method to use, is to just pick a method and then stick with it, so your results are always consistent.

Totally confused now, right? :) It's really not that confusing once you get your mind around it. Some prefer to practice DIY as a chemist, I prefer to practice it as a cook. Maybe someday I'll graduate to chef, but meanwhile my crazy method is working.
 
I love the chemist/ cook comparison ! and the amazing reply! it is confusing, but I would say going from clueless to confused is always a step forward :D
and your advice is gold when it comes to sticking with one method, this way i can tune out my mistakes. I will stick to my average or the 1 = 1 because I am way underneath making my own recipes. the flavors in my arsenal are few, would you have an idea of what juices i can make out of them? besides what i got them for, which is to make a unicorn milk clone:

- CAP buttercream
- CAP Graham cracker v1
- CAP NY cheesecake
- CAP sweet cream
- CAP sweet strawberry
- CAP VB ice cream
- CAP Vanilla custard V1

- FA desert ship
- TFA RY4 double

I think Iv seen a 2%NY cheesecake, 8% vanilla custard V1 recipe somewhere, would that be good?
 
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Heabob

Gold Contributor
Member For 4 Years
Member For 3 Years
I think Iv seen a 2%NY cheesecake, 8% vanilla custard V1 recipe somewhere, would that be good?

I'd start with that one cut in half myself.

Depends on your flavor tolerance as some find these quite overpowering at the higher amounts.
And others really like them in that range, as DIY is mostly a trial & error affair based on individual tastes.

I'd try:
CAP Sweet Strawberry 7%
CAP VBIC 3% (4% if Custard is not used)
CAP Vanilla Custard 1% (optional)
CAP Sweet Cream 1%
CAP Butter Cream 1%

Might have to steep for a week tho.

Mix up 1-3% of NY Cheesecake stand alone to see if you like it first, some love it, and some hate it.
But it does work wonders with some recipes just by adding in a small amount.

I'd try the Graham Cracker the same way, only 3-5%, it has a Cinnamon taste that may, or may not, fit in with many recipes.
In other words the Cinnamon mostly overpowers the Graham Cracker taste but others may not get this.
It's not a commonly used flavor, at least I haven't seen it used in very many recipes.
But it might be good stand alone, or with CAP Sugar Cookie v1, or other bakery types like Apple Pie, etc..

BTW TFA Graham Cracker Clear doesn't have any cinnamon, and TFA Cheesecake Graham is another one.
 
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jambi

Bronze Contributor
Member For 4 Years
ECF Refugee
I've got one that's close to what you have, and you have all the puzzle pieces to substitute. Credit goes to DIYorDie...

Original is,
CAP NY Cheesecake 6%
CAP Sweet Cream 1%
CAP Strawberry Sweet 2%
TFA Strawberry Ripe 3%
TFA Graham Cracker Clear 1.50%
(sweetener) 1.50%

I'd delete the TFA Straw. Ripe and bump the CAP to 5 %. Subsequently, I'd delete the sweetener since the St. Sw. is soooo sweet already. I've never had the CAP V1 Graham, the TFA I use a lot and it's pretty innocuous stuff. Were I to simply take Heabob's word for it regarding the CAP GC, I'd lower it to 1% as a sub for GCC, but I'd sooner take his advice and test it first, lest I end up with Cinnamon Churro Cheesecake.

I might try mating the TFA RY4 Double at 2:1 with the Desert Ship.

This might help you...it's a list of very commonly used flavors. It really depends on what you like and who you're following. Certain well-known mixers tend to favor certain flavors. For example I put a * next to flavors that are essential for making DIYorDie's recipes, but not necessarily essential overall.

TFA
Graham Cracker Clear*
Cheesecake Graham Crust
Bavarian Cream*
Vanilla Swirl*
AP
Ethyl Maltol
Brown Sugar (Extra)
Marshmallow*
Sweet Cream (or Capella)
Strawberry Ripe
Banana Cream
Caramel Original
Blueberry Wild and/or Extra
VBIC*

CAP
Sugar Cookie*
Vanilla Custard V1 (or TFA)
Sweet Cream (I sub this for TFA)
VBIC*
Strawberry Sweet

FW
Yellow Cake*
Butterscotch
Hazelnut

FA
Fresh Cream
Meringue**
Cookie*
Fuji
Lemon Sicily

INW
Biscuit*

What's your Unicorn recipe?
 
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I've got one that's close to what you have, and you have all the puzzle pieces to substitute. Credit goes to DIYorDie...
Original is,
CAP NY Cheesecake 6%
CAP Sweet Cream 1%
CAP Strawberry Sweet 2%
TFA Strawberry Ripe 3%
TFA Graham Cracker Clear 1.50%
(sweetener) 1.50%

Thanks for the recipe! and the flavor advice, you recommend DIYorDIE's recipes? you think i should build my stock around a couple of them?
my unicorn milk recipe is named "INTERNAL LEAK OF CUTWOOK UNICORN MILK"

Butter Cream (CAP) 1.5
Graham Cracker v1 (CAP) 0.5
New York Cheesecake (CAP) 0.5
Sweet Cream (CAP) 1.5
Sweet Strawberry (CAP) 8.5
Vanilla Bean Ice Cream (CAP) 1
Vanilla Custard v1 (CAP) 3
 
BTW TFA Graham Cracker Clear doesn't have any cinnamon, and TFA Cheesecake Graham is another one.

what about the CAP GC? too cinnamon tasting?
I will mix the recipe you suggested, it sounds simple yet interesting.
thank you for your help, the community here is amazing.
 
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jambi

Bronze Contributor
Member For 4 Years
ECF Refugee
Thanks for the recipe! and the flavor advice, you recommend DIYorDIE's recipes? you think i should build my stock around a couple of them?
my unicorn milk recipe is named "INTERNAL LEAK OF CUTWOOK UNICORN MILK"

Butter Cream (CAP) 1.5
Graham Cracker v1 (CAP) 0.5
New York Cheesecake (CAP) 0.5
Sweet Cream (CAP) 1.5
Sweet Strawberry (CAP) 8.5
Vanilla Bean Ice Cream (CAP) 1
Vanilla Custard v1 (CAP) 3
DIY or Die has some great recipes. Funfetti is one of my favorites. Another favorite of mine is NotCharlesManson. His Strawberry Shortcake Bar is outstanding. http://e-liquid-recipes.com/?filter=10015

Haven't seen that particular all CAP Unicorn Milk clone. I'll have to try it, the total flavor % is a lot lower than mine. I can tell you that the one I've been using is spot on. I vaped tons of real Unicorn Milk before I got into DIY (and learned how easy it is to clone).

TFA Strawberry Ripe 10%
TFA Cheesecake Graham Crust 5%
TFA (or CAP) Sweet Cream 3%
TFA Bavarian Cream 3%
CAP VC V1 2%
 
. I can tell you that the one I've been using is spot on. I vaped tons of real Unicorn Milk before I got into DIY (and learned how easy it is to clone).
I wish Iv spoken to you before I made my order, problem is I ordered concentrates to a friends house in the UK who came over to visit, cant order concentrates whenever I want sadly, so im stuck with what i can do with the ones I have for a month or 2 :( but ill get the ones in your clone and try it, dont see in the one I mentioned how it would be accurate with hints of cinnamon from the CAP GC, I never got cinnamon tones in the original unicorn milk (which iv only vaped a couple of times), so it seems it could be off, with the ones I got ill try the one Heabob suggested and the DIYorDie one you mentioned how to make with the ones I got and see what I can make for now.

I think so myself, but it's not a bad flavor when used for Snickerdoodle Cookies or Apple Pie for example.

would you know a good apple pie recipe using CAP GC? Id hate to throw it away and I love apple pie , haven't vaped it before. Is it like eating apple pie? haha
 
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Heabob

Gold Contributor
Member For 4 Years
Member For 3 Years
would you know a good apple pie recipe using CAP GC? Id hate to throw it away and I love apple pie , haven't vaped it before. Is it like eating apple pie? haha

Just hang on to it as you will accumulate more flavors eventually.
Seriously I'd try it stand alone too, think it might be good by itself.
Or mix in 3-4% Vanilla Bean Ice Cream with it, fun to play around with different combos.

7% CAP Apple Pie + 2% FA Fuji Apple + 3% CAP Graham Cracker would be a good start.
Maybe not like a real Pie tho, hard to get the crust part to shine through.

4% CAP Sugar Cookie v1 + 3% CAP GC for a start on Cinnamon Cookies(Snickerdoodle)
May, or may not, need to add more Cinnamon tho, (add CAP Cinnamon Danish)
 

Heabob

Gold Contributor
Member For 4 Years
Member For 3 Years
the flavors in my arsenal are few, would you have an idea of what juices i can make out of them?

Strawberry Cheesecake
3% NY Cheesecake + 7% Sweet Strawberry + 1% Sweet Cream

Strawberry Ice Cream
4% Vanilla Bean + 7% Sweet Strawberry + 1% Sweet Cream

Strawberry Custard
3% Vanilla Custard + 7% Sweet Strawberry + 1% Sweet Cream

Strawberries & Cream
5-7% Sweet Strawberry + 2% Sweet Cream + 2% Butter Cream

Vanilla Custard
3-5% Vanilla Custard + 1% Vanilla Bean + 1% Sweet Cream + 1% Butter Cream

Vanilla Ice Cream
4-5% Vanilla Bean + 2% Sweet Cream + 1% Butter Cream (1% Vanilla Custard optional)

Just tossing out some ideas to play with for starting points.
Adjustments may need to be made, usually by adjusting the main flavor.
Like the Strawberry may be too weak, so next batch raise it by 1% at a time.
Make 10ml samples to test, and steeping may effect strength of flavor over time.

Most CAP flavors usually need a 1 week steep, especially the Custard.
Hot tap water baths can help somewhat, but I don't like using Crockpots or such, too much heat wrecks flavors IMO.
If they don't taste good after 24hrs put them in a dark cool place for a week.
Sometimes Custard mixes can take a month to "get right".

Sweet Cream & Butter Cream can be added to most anything.
 
Thank you very much this is exactly what i needed, starting points for different flavors, i will mix samples of everything suggested in this thread! in a week or so i will have results and should be able to, afterwards, mix something vapable hopefully! thanks again guys
 

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