How will the new FDA crap affect diy-ers?

[RatRacer]

I don't see how 18650 batteries can be an issue. They make 18650 flashlights.

Pre 2007 available item.

They worded the deeming very broadly on purpose. Like they responded to Sen. Johnson, they are regulating to understand. I interpret batteries to be purpose built type, like Ego style batteries, since they started putting this together in 2014 with no research effort.

Crazy chef's custom Toaster parts.

 

[ej1024]

VU becomes
The underground
ECF becomes
The forum
LOL


VAPE ON

 

[Time]

You could do that. But, the regulations are regarding companies, not individuals. So, seeing as how I'm actually a Limited Liability Corporation (LLC), there will be regulations that will apply to me, but not to @raymo2u . Ray is just a guy that makes good quality coils. I'm a company. I foresee Ray making some good money after August 8th...

Just a clarification.

If an individual is making/selling coils, he is a business. The regulations will certainly apply. Business ID or no.

The only true difference is that the FDA is not likely to look for and enforce the regulations on an under the table, black market individual.

It's the same concept as tax liability. Selling stuff from your house does not exempt a person from reporting the income. It's just unlikely the IRS or State will actively look for it.

The only distinction is legal vs black market.

 

[Huckleberried]

ECF becomes
The forum a ghost town

ej I FIXED YO SHIT

 

[AndriaD]

Chef is a real company...Im just a hobbyist that feels no one should miss out on a good thing

Thanks for the clarification Chef....It really sucks that its actually happening....I liked the way things were going right now with the industry and its crazy how selfish and dark the FDA and its supporters are...People jobs, livelihoods, and more are at stake and to care about Sin Tax and profit margins more blows me away....There is something terribly wrong with this country, isn't there?

With the assclowns "in charge" of it, yes there certainly is. How exactly did it get like this, and even more pertinent: how the fuck do we fix it??? Just burn it all down, execute all of them, and start over, thus ensuring that 250 yrs down the road, our descendants have the same sorts of idiocy to deal with?

Andria

 

[Time]

the government sees no difference between a llc and an individual if you charge money for it you are teh same.

This^^^

 

[mchaggis79]

Holy poopsticks I didn't think any thread I started would get this big. So what I'm getting from back reading is get more nic and wire for sure and maybe the individual flavor concentrates as a precaution? And buy whatever hardware I want soon.

 

[raymo2u]

Holy poopsticks I didn't think any thread I started would get this big. So what I'm getting from back reading is get more nic and wire for sure and maybe the individual flavor concentrates as a precaution? And buy whatever hardware I want soon.

Buy all you can while you can

 

[AndriaD]

I really doubt wire will be an issue -- people use all kinds of wire for everything under the sun. But the nic... yeah, probably a really good idea to stockup on that.

Andria

 

[Huckleberried]

And buy whatever hardware I want soon.

I would. Yeah, people say we'll have 2-3 years to keep buying stuff, but some places are taxing out the ass, too, already.

 

[ej1024]

Hahaha
Stock up VAPERS


VAPE ON

 

[inspects]

ej I FIXED YO SHIT

Indeed Huck....folks think the forum is censored now?...they should have a rude awakening after the 8th. They'll prolly have the word Vape blacklisted, similar to "ass" and "hell", those nasty filthy potty talk words.

fucking jackasses...!

 

[mchaggis79]

I would. Yeah, people say we'll have 2-3 years to keep buying stuff, but some places are taxing out the ass, too, already.

Great...and here I am underfunded. Well fuck me sideways. This has not been a good 2 years for me. 2015 and 2016 can both kiss my ass.

 

[Paratech]

With the assclowns "in charge" of it, yes there certainly is. How exactly did it get like this, and even more pertinent: how the fuck do we fix it??? Just burn it all down, execute all of them, and start over, thus ensuring that 250 yrs down the road, our descendants have the same sorts of idiocy to deal with?

But it seemed to work so well for the Declaration of Independence......

 

[Markw4mms]

Great...and here I am underfunded. Well fuck me sideways. This has not been a good 2 years for me. 2015 and 2016 can both kiss my ass.

I'm right there with you on that! Being broke sucks!

 

[Rabbit Slayer]

You should also get a gas powered generator to charge your batteries...if you really think they are banning wire, why wouldn't you think they will ban electricity as-well

 

[Mattp169]

ok so here is the first response from flavor art, I have sent them more questions because like many others I do not understand how food flavoring needs a PMTA period

"Our vape safe flavours will all be issued a PMTA. We will fully comply with FDA deeming regulations. Our flavours have more research then any other flavour in the market relative to their safety. See Clearstreamonward.com for more information. Thanks for using our products. We like you are DIYers and vapers and truly care about our communities future.

Shaun Casey
President
Flavourart North America"

 

[joeyboy]

Holy poopsticks I didn't think any thread I started would get this big. So what I'm getting from back reading is get more nic and wire for sure and maybe the individual flavor concentrates as a precaution? And buy whatever hardware I want soon.

How are you to save flavors, freezing them? They aren't sealed so always losing products. You would need parafilm to seal them and that isn't made for cold.

Maybe we should be bookmarking flavors as their names are changed that can be used for vaping. I know cap can be used for food and vaping. FA has specific ones for food and vaping, I think. I hope inw doesn't go away.

There is no way you can store enough flavors for more than a couple years due to stability. Nic, mods, vg and pg and etc you can get away with.

This is how I see it. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[joeyboy]

You should also get a gas powered generator to charge your batteries...if you really think they are banning wire, why wouldn't you think they will ban electricity as-well

Maybe they will ban oxygen from all they don't like. Boy am I piss3d.

 

[joeyboy]

I would. Yeah, people say we'll have 2-3 years to keep buying stuff, but some places are taxing out the ass, too, already.

You think you've seen blown up faces on the news now. Wait until people start trying to build their own tube mod without a clue. Their new name will be two finger xxxxxx.

 

[AndriaD]

But it seemed to work so well for the Declaration of Independence......

Not exactly sure what the Declaration of Independence has to do with all the current jackasses in DC.

Andria

 

[Ryedan]

ok so here is the first response from flavor art, I have sent them more questions because like many others I do not understand how food flavoring needs a PMTA period

"Our vape safe flavours will all be issued a PMTA. We will fully comply with FDA deeming regulations. Our flavours have more research then any other flavour in the market relative to their safety. See Clearstreamonward.com for more information. Thanks for using our products. We like you are DIYers and vapers and truly care about our communities future.

Shaun Casey
President
Flavourart North America"

Thanks Mat .. Good to hear that

 

[Paratech]

Not exactly sure what the Declaration of Independence has to do with all the current jackasses in DC.

Due to those jackasses in DC, the Declaration of Independence doesn't stand for near as much as it used to.
Same as Bill of Rights that became part of our constitution about 225 years ago.
As well as many other laws, rights, and such that USED to be in place.
They just make up shit on a regular basis and tell us we must follow.
I'm not a sheep, I won't follow.

 

[AndriaD]

Due to those jackasses in DC, the Declaration of Independence doesn't stand for near as much as it used to.
Same as Bill of Rights that became part of our constitution about 225 years ago.
As well as many other laws, rights, and such that USED to be in place.
They just make up shit on a regular basis and tell us we must follow.
I'm not a sheep, I won't follow.

Exactly why I'm an advocate of full-scale revolution. But even that is only a temporary fix, as we see so clearly now -- in a couple centuries, our descendants will be facing the same exact shit as we are now, if in a different form. It's just human nature -- for every honest, upright, hard-working person, there's 3-10 scoundrels, liars, and layabouts who want a free ride. People like that seem to gravitate to gov't jobs.

Andria

 

[joeyboy]

Exactly why I'm an advocate of full-scale revolution. But even that is only a temporary fix, as we see so clearly now -- in a couple centuries, our descendants will be facing the same exact shit as we are now, if in a different form. It's just human nature -- for every honest, upright, hard-working person, there's 3-10 scoundrels, liars, and layabouts who want a free ride.

Andria

How would you revolt? Marching in the streets doesn't work. The only way you could really do it is by controlling their income. If everyone stopped paying income taxes would be one way.

 

[AndriaD]

How would you revolt? Marching in the streets doesn't work. The only way you could really do it is by controlling their income. If everyone stopped paying income taxes would be one way.

Hell if I know. But it desperately needs to be done, somehow.

Andria

 

[joeyboy]

Hell if I know. But it desperately needs to be done, somehow.

Andria

If you say something about gays you are a homophobe. If you say something about a race, doesn't matter what it is, your a racist. With either of those you have a mental problem and lose your gun rights.

The issue is if you want something to change and don't belong to a group then you are alone. If your group happens to be white, your a supremacist.

Maybe this is a little blunt but true. I honestly believe land of the free is gone.

 

[Artemis]

I'm in!! As long as I can take a nap.

 

[Mattp169]

oh sestra you are back... you change davatars to something not orphan black related and i thought you were unwell

 

[joeyboy]

I'm in!! As long as I can take a nap.

Now I can agree with that.

 

[Artemis]

oh sestra you are back... you change davatars to something not orphan black related and i thought you were unwell

Ha! I was going crazy!

 

[Barbara E.]

All vendors have to do for stuff like wire, cotton, etc is just take out any words about vaping, e-juice. and e-cigs.

I don't see how that would make a difference. From what I understand, the FDA has made it clear that if you intend to use anything in an e-cigarette, it becomes a 'tobacco product'. The 'intent' is the key, not how it's marketed. So things like cotton, wire, flavorings, etc. only become 'tobacco products' once you state your intention of using them in a vaporizer.

 

[AndriaD]

I don't see how that would make a difference. From what I understand, the FDA has made it clear that if you intend to use anything in an e-cigarette, it becomes a 'tobacco product'. The 'intent' is the key, not how it's marketed. So things like cotton, wire, flavorings, etc. only become 'tobacco products' once you state your intention of using them in a vaporizer.

Right. So don't tell anybody. Seems pretty easy to me.

Andria

 

[Barbara E.]

Why not try the opposite?

Go into your local grocery store and tell them that you are planning to use the vanilla extract you're buying in eliquid. Then inform them that the FDA now considers the vanilla a tobacco product and ask if they have followed all the rules, paid all the taxes, filled out all the proper forms, and have the proper licenses to sell tobacco products.

Of course, they will look at you like you're crazy.

But legally, you're right. The intent makes the product.

Now your local SFATA chapter ( who would best know your particular state's laws) would have justification for writing a nice legal letter to that particular company informing them that they are breaking the law.

I could go on but you get the idea. Make *everything* into a tobacco product. Drag all these other companies into the legal mess that the fda's regulations have caused.

 

[AndriaD]

Much easier to just buy what I need and use it for whatever reason I choose, without notifying anyone of those reasons -- none of their bee's wax anyway. Others may consent to being RULED by nanny fascists, but I choose to keep my freedom and keep my business to myself. Civil Disobedience is a great way to live -- they can't prosecute you (or tax you) for something they don't know about.

Andria

 

[BigNasty]

I still say the over reach is so bad every woman has to become licensed as a mfg.
If a shop has to be a mfg for putting cotton in a hole since under their stated rules it makes a new device...
Then tampon mfg are making tobacco products.
Just going by their own regulations.

 

[Barbara E.]

Much easier to just buy what I need and use it for whatever reason I choose, without notifying anyone of those reasons -- none of their bee's wax anyway. Others may consent to being RULED by nanny fascists, but I choose to keep my freedom and keep my business to myself. Civil Disobedience is a great way to live -- they can't prosecute you (or tax you) for something they don't know about.

Andria

Andria, I really don't want to start an argument (since we're on the same side) and I agree that how you use <whatever> is 'none of their bee's wax' - but by not *actively* fighting the laws, nothing will change.

 

[AndriaD]

Andria, I really don't want to start an argument (since we're on the same side) and I agree that how you use <whatever> is 'none of their bee's wax' - but by not *actively* fighting the laws, nothing will change.

Maybe I'm just cynical, because I don't honestly think anything is going to change anyway -- they'll stop saying vaping is dangerous when they figure out how to get their pound of flesh out of it, and not a moment sooner. It's all about the money, all of it, everything, all the time, world without end amen. That's why I stocked up on nicotine and learned to make my own ejuice; yes, it's sad that current smokers who haven't yet jumped on vaping won't get a chance to, but I can't worry about that; they aren't my problem -- the only door I can sweep around is my own. Yes, it's a travesty that the US gov't is acting like this when in the UK, the "authorities" have recognized how beneficial vaping is... but then you look at the candidates that the 2 major US parties have up for election... Gov't in this country is a dirty joke, and the only thing that's going to change it is a full-scale revolution, and even that will only be a temporary fix, until the stuffed shirts with big money figure out how to play the NEW system.

Yeah, cynical. Not going to waste a lot of effort trying to change something that's utterly, irreparably broken. If there was any further frontier, I'd move there, but sadly, our species has overrun the whole earth. So I'll just hunker down in my little part of it, and do what I need to do, and allow others to do as they need.

Andria

 

[Artemis]

I just received this email and frankly I don't see the logic except taking advantage and screwing the vape community. I might change vendors.
I did edit my personal info.

Dear

As of August 1st 2016 the price of Essential Depot's 4 Gallon VG and PG GlyCubes are going up by a minimum of 13% (from $39.00 to at least $44.00). As VG/PG customer I wanted to give you the chance to stock up and beat the price increases.

To order visit -> USP KOSHER Pharmaceutical Grade VG and PG - Drums and Glycubes. Glycubes only $39.00 until midnight EST Sunday

The upcoming Feb 2017 Federal E-Cig Regulations have caused a spike in sales to the 5000+ Vape Shops we supply. The associated demand spike across the industry has caused VG and PG prices to go up significantly. Our manufacturer and supplier is giving us one more week to purchase at our current price. Please help keep your price as low as possible by ordering at the current price before August 1st.

Thank you again for being an Essential Depot customer.

Matt D.
E-Cigarette Specialist
Essential Depot, Inc.
Email: [email protected]
essentialdepot.com

 

[Teresa P]

when they figure out how to get their pound of flesh out of it

^ ^ ^ THAT RIGHT THERE!! That's what it's always been about, and the more "products" they can tack on, the fatter their pockets will become. What we use now will be ridiculously priced, and the majority of the income will be taxes. What they want to provide will be cheap, and in the form of cig-a-likes, with pre-filled cartridges. And what will be in the cartridges? Low nic garbage that tastes like tobacco, and full of the same chemicals and MAOIs that are in cigarettes now, to make us sick and keep us addicted - for the high dollar insurance companies to stay in business. That may just be my opinion, but the gub'ment hasn't swayed from their typical communistic behavior as long as I've been alive.

 

[Teresa P]

I just received this email and frankly I don't see the logic except taking advantage and screwing the vape community. I might change vendors.
I did edit my personal info.

Dear

As of August 1st 2016 the price of Essential Depot's 4 Gallon VG and PG GlyCubes are going up by a minimum of 13% (from $39.00 to at least $44.00). As VG/PG customer I wanted to give you the chance to stock up and beat the price increases.

To order visit -> USP KOSHER Pharmaceutical Grade VG and PG - Drums and Glycubes. Glycubes only $39.00 until midnight EST Sunday

The upcoming Feb 2017 Federal E-Cig Regulations have caused a spike in sales to the 5000+ Vape Shops we supply. The associated demand spike across the industry has caused VG and PG prices to go up significantly. Our manufacturer and supplier is giving us one more week to purchase at our current price. Please help keep your price as low as possible by ordering at the current price before August 1st.

Thank you again for being an Essential Depot customer.

Matt D.
E-Cigarette Specialist
Essential Depot, Inc.
Email: [email protected]
essentialdepot.com

So what about the customers who buy their VG to make soaps and lotions and such? They get penalized too?

 

[Artemis]

So what about the customers who buy their VG to make soaps and lotions and such? They get penalized too?

Sounds like it. I will look elsewhere when I need vg/pg unless they lower the prices/or keep them the same.

 

[AndriaD]

Sounds like it. I will look elsewhere when I need vg/pg unless they lower the prices/or keep them the same.

I recently (and rather accidentally!) got enrolled in Amazon Prime, so I think I'll take advantage of the free shipping and get my PG/VG from them; I've used the "Nature's Oil" brand since I started, it's very good, though the price has gone up radically since 2014 -- but considering how heavy PG/VG are, it's a pretty decent savings, to get it shipped free. My main balk with Essential Depot was the cost of the shipping.

Andria

 

[AndriaD]

^ ^ ^ THAT RIGHT THERE!! That's what it's always been about, and the more "products" they can tack on, the fatter their pockets will become. What we use now will be ridiculously priced, and the majority of the income will be taxes. What they want to provide will be cheap, and in the form of cig-a-likes, with pre-filled cartridges. And what will be in the cartridges? Low nic garbage that tastes like tobacco, and full of the same chemicals and MAOIs that are in cigarettes now, to make us sick and keep us addicted - for the high dollar insurance companies to stay in business. That may just be my opinion, but the gub'ment hasn't swayed from their typical communistic behavior as long as I've been alive.

Read this today, from a link on Twitter, and it's RIGHT ON THE MONEY!!!

https://brainyfurball.wordpress.com/2014/01/25/the-murder-game/

Really it couldn't be expressed any better than this analogy.

Andria

 

[SMOKIE]

As of today Aug 8, 2016 not much changes for the consumer except helping customers to a certain degree at vape shops, giveaways, bottling requirements, and age vitrifaction. You still can buy your liquids, mods, coils, wire, DIY stuff, etc. Some vendors might charge a little more now because of the extra work with bar coding on liquids, etc. But places that sell say PG, VG, Wire, Nicotine and Flavorings that are NOT ADVERTISED for vaping will remain unaffected to the regulations.

Down the road over the next two years restrictions will get tighter unless we fight this.

 

[Frightnight]

Thanks for the update Smokie. Not all doom and gloom as of yet anyway.

 

[Artemis]

Bull City Vapor changed their name to Bull City Flavors.

 

[freemind]

Why not try the opposite?

Go into your local grocery store and tell them that you are planning to use the vanilla extract you're buying in eliquid. Then inform them that the FDA now considers the vanilla a tobacco product and ask if they have followed all the rules, paid all the taxes, filled out all the proper forms, and have the proper licenses to sell tobacco products.

Of course, they will look at you like you're crazy.

But legally, you're right. The intent makes the product.

Now your local SFATA chapter ( who would best know your particular state's laws) would have justification for writing a nice legal letter to that particular company informing them that they are breaking the law.

I could go on but you get the idea. Make *everything* into a tobacco product. Drag all these other companies into the legal mess that the fda's regulations have caused.

Older post, but I'll make my point and move one.

You inform the store what your intent IS with the product. The worker informs you they refuse to sell you the flavorings. End of issue. They are not bound to fight YOUR fight, and you have no flavorings.

A store has the right to refuse you service anytime they like. Goat roping someone into your issues will only go as far as they let it.

 

[AndriaD]

Older post, but I'll make my point and move one.

You inform the store what your intent IS with the product. The worker informs you they refuse to sell you the flavorings. End of issue. They are not bound to fight YOUR fight, and you have no flavorings.

A store has the right to refuse you service anytime they like. Goat roping someone into your issues will only go as far as they let it.

I agree. I see no point in raising hell just for the sake of raising hell. I'll keep buying whatever I need (that I don't have already), and it's none of anyone's business what I'm buying it FOR. Especially none of the FDA's business.

Andria

 

[freemind]

I agree. I see no point in raising hell just for the sake of raising hell. I'll keep buying whatever I need (that I don't have already), and it's none of anyone's business what I'm buying it FOR. Especially none of the FDA's business.

Andria

Personally, I see dragging someone uninvolved into your situation, as a good way to make enemies. You'll make no friends with the grocery store, and likely make them unsympathetic and likely hostile, to your cause.

Better to be quite about it, and just do your thing. Figure out a better way to fight. Which in reality, isn't going to be the end users. It is going to NEED to be the ones in business.