I have a problem with DIY recepies.

[pulsevape]

For clarity I will be talking in terms of someone who uses only mech mods.

I read recepies on forums and I have to say...there seems to be a real disconnect to me....recepies are handed out as if everybody is vaping the same kinds of devices, and same types of bases.
I am having trouble understanding how a recepie that has a 20% pg/80%vg i supposed to taste the same as a recepies that is 50/50 when they both have the same % of flavorings ....Since we know that flavor is carried by PG much better than by VG it stands to reason that higher PG levels in a juice will deliver more flavor? correct.?Then how can we use the same % of flavoring in a high VG juice and expect similar results.
the other thing is for the most part vapers are all using these sub ohm tanks and newbies almost exclusively use them....The next gereantion of vapers will not ever be forced to learn how to build....or they are drippers.Both of these styles of vaping target big clouds which have become the norm in vaping today...big clouds require big airflow and big quanities of juice.
vaping low subohms to make big clouds mean you are consuming something like twice the amount of juice in a hit than you would vaping a genisis atomizer or a build above 1 ohm..this is the reason we recommend that people drop their nic levels way down when they start vaping low sub ohms, because they are consuming twice as much juice therefore twice as much nic.....
But you're also consuming twice as much flavoring in a hit than you would say vaping above 1 ohm.....in that case like the big nic hit, you get a bigger flavoring hit.. So how can you expect that someone vaping a 50/50 juice with high watts and huge airflow is going to get the same flavor experince than someone vaping say a genny with tight draws and lower watts vaping a 20%pg 80%vg.......It seems to me that recepies for juice are not interchangeable and have to be tailored to vaping styles and tailored to PG/VG ratios....for us to say that you should or should not use more than 10% flavorings of FA flavorings in a recepies seems illogical......what am I missing.

 

[Mattp169]

well
its DIY
so you can adjust to your own preferences.

but a recipe at max vg vs max pg MAY have a difference level of flavor, or how strong the flavor is. but the taste profile is the same, your just going to have more or less of the overall flavor.

so the recipes are fine. do you think everyone follows recipes to the letter? no
in fact alot of us will make the flavor base, and add it to a pv/vg/nic base, then if we feel we need more flavor just add more of the flavor base to th eoverall mix.

but this is the beauty of DIY
tailoring to your needs and tastes

the percenatges may change but the ratios stay the same or close.

you may need to adjust sweetness on many recipes since max vg is sweeter tasting then 50/50


your thoughts are accurate imho, but your over thinking it a little

say this recipe
3% fa white peach
2% fa peach
1% fa mango

if i said it this way

3parts fa whit peach
2parts fa peach
1 part fa mango

which is actually saying the same thing when it comes down to it

says PART instead of % makes exactly what your saying mute. so keep doing what your doing,

 

[wllmc]

For clarity I will be talking in terms of someone who uses only mech mods.
1.
how a recepie that has a 20% pg/80%vg i supposed to taste the same as a recepies that is 50/50 when they both have the same % of flavorings ....

2.
Since we know that flavor is carried by PG much better than by VG it stands to reason that higher PG levels in a juice will deliver more flavor? correct.?Then how can we use the same % of flavoring in a high VG juice and expect similar results.

3.
the reason we recommend that people drop their nic levels way down when they start vaping low sub ohms, because they are consuming twice as much juice therefore twice as much nic.....

4.
..for us to say that you should or should not use more than 10% flavorings of FA flavorings in a recepies seems illogical......what am I missing.

Ill hit on a couple of the things and the way I see it

1. Im a prime example right here . went to bed last night with a kayfun on my mod, single coil 1.8 ohms 60 vg 40 pg. woke up this morning and it was really cold, so cold my juice would not wick. popped my dripper on , dripping 90/10 now of the exact same flavor and the difference in taste is so minimal its not like you are going to think they are 2 totally different juices. one is a little warmer and it brings out maybe a slightly different profile but not really.

2.
I would disagree with the fact that PG is a better carrier of flavor. its a better carrier for our use, but not a better carrier of flavor. Ive made plenty of my own VG extractions and 90% of the time max VG up to 95% of the final mix. Ive made this example before so i might sound like a broken record right now but the reason flavoring is in PG is because could you really imagine trying to get the last ml of VG based flavoring out if your little dripper bottle lol. we would have people cutting bottles open and scraping the sides to get that last little drop of flavoring out lol. but if you look beyond vaping there are tons of ways to carry flavor PG is just simply the easiest way to dispense it. but if you look around there are plenty of VG baased flavorings and more popping up al the time.

3.
Ill have to add the first time someone sub ohms 24mg and after the world stops spinning its pretty clear the nicotine delivery is much stronger so less is needed.

4. If you vaped 10% FA on device in any recipe I think you would see what you were missing lol.

and finally for my conclusion recipes are simply guidelines. thats why there is not much hoopla about what devices and temps and VG/PG. I tend to think DIYers are just trying to learn how to make juice that they love and not really concerned with making an exact replica copy of someone else recipe. by sharing recipes we learn about what flavors or combinations work well and what is created from that. recipe sharing is for honing skills or showing off an awesome recipe. from my experience all that other mess doesnt really matter

 

[pulsevape]

Ill hit on a couple of the things and the way I see it

1. Im a prime example right here . went to bed last night with a kayfun on my mod, single coil 1.8 ohms 60 vg 40 pg. woke up this morning and it was really cold, so cold my juice would not wick. popped my dripper on , dripping 90/10 now of the exact same flavor and the difference in taste is so minimal its not like you are going to think they are 2 totally different juices. one is a little warmer and it brings out maybe a slightly different profile but not really.

2.
I would disagree with the fact that PG is a better carrier of flavor. its a better carrier for our use, but not a better carrier of flavor. Ive made plenty of my own VG extractions and 90% of the time max VG up to 95% of the final mix. Ive made this example before so i might sound like a broken record right now but the reason flavoring is in PG is because could you really imagine trying to get the last ml of VG based flavoring out if your little dripper bottle lol. we would have people cutting bottles open and scraping the sides to get that last little drop of flavoring out lol. but if you look beyond vaping there are tons of ways to carry flavor PG is just simply the easiest way to dispense it. but if you look around there are plenty of VG baased flavorings and more popping up al the time.

3.
Ill have to add the first time someone sub ohms 24mg and after the world stops spinning its pretty clear the nicotine delivery is much stronger so less is needed.

4. If you vaped 10% FA on device in any recipe I think you would see what you were missing lol.

and finally for my conclusion recipes are simply guidelines. thats why there is not much hoopla about what devices and temps and VG/PG. I tend to think DIYers are just trying to learn how to make juice that they love and not really concerned with making an exact replica copy of someone else recipe. by sharing recipes we learn about what flavors or combinations work well and what is created from that. recipe sharing is for honing skills or showing off an awesome recipe. from my experience all that other mess doesnt really matter

I 've made alot ot tobacco extractions cold macreations, heat assisted macerations, with VG PG and PGA ..in my experince PG is a far better flavor carrier than VG..Vg is good but you have to let it macerate alot longer the flavor tends to be weaker,but more rounded...PGA is very good but it seems thatthe flavor disaptes faster than PG...and it delivers a different profile.
actually I make 15-20 %PG with 85-80% vg and I use around 12-13% FA flavorings. but then I vape gennys around .8 to 1 ohm on a mech mod. What % of flavorings do you typically use in your high VG juices?

 

[Squonk]

and finally for my conclusion recipes are simply guidelines. thats why there is not much hoopla about what devices and temps and VG/PG. I tend to think DIYers are just trying to learn how to make juice that they love and not really concerned with making an exact replica copy of someone else recipe. by sharing recipes we learn about what flavors or combinations work well and what is created from that. recipe sharing is for honing skills or showing off an awesome recipe. from my experience all that other mess doesnt really matter

THIS!

 

[pulsevape]

well
its DIY
so you can adjust to your own preferences.

but a recipe at max vg vs max pg MAY have a difference level of flavor, or how strong the flavor is. but the taste profile is the same, your just going to have more or less of the overall flavor.

so the recipes are fine. do you think everyone follows recipes to the letter? no
in fact alot of us will make the flavor base, and add it to a pv/vg/nic base, then if we feel we need more flavor just add more of the flavor base to th eoverall mix.

but this is the beauty of DIY
tailoring to your needs and tastes

the percenatges may change but the ratios stay the same or close.

you may need to adjust sweetness on many recipes since max vg is sweeter tasting then 50/50


your thoughts are accurate imho, but your over thinking it a little

say this recipe
3% fa white peach
2% fa peach
1% fa mango

if i said it this way

3parts fa whit peach
2parts fa peach
1 part fa mango

which is actually saying the same thing when it comes down to it

says PART instead of % makes exactly what your saying mute. so keep doing what your doing,

Yes this is what I was trying to say...the "strength" of the flavor differs depending on what base and device you use, as well as the watts and wick you use.
The reason I am asking is becauses I keep reading that using more than 10% of FA flavorings means your doing something wrong and that you should in fact be dialing your % down to below 10%

 

[wllmc]

What % of flavorings do you typically use in your high VG juices?

I dont adjust for PG or VG. if I like a concentrate at 5 % I use it at 5% wether its in 50/50 mix or 80/20. I just honestly dont see, feel or taste a difference big enough for me to take the time or go thought the hassle of trying to adjust it. I dont have a normal style of vaping. sometimes its a kayfun 60/40 at 13 w or a dripper at 0.3 ohms and 65 watts and 90/10. I will agree 100 % that max VG juice needs to sit longer to fully and completly mix but as far as the topic of adjusting flavor Ive never found it necaserry. If I dont like it Im just not going to like it at any temp or ratio and vise versa, if I like it Ill like it on any device any temp or VG/PG ratio.

 

[pulsevape]

I dont adjust for PG or VG. if I like a concentrate at 5 % I use it at 5% wether its in 50/50 mix or 80/20. I just honestly dont see, feel or taste a difference big enough for me to take the time or go thought the hassle of trying to adjust it. I dont have a normal style of vaping. sometimes its a kayfun 60/40 at 13 w or a dripper at 0.3 ohms and 65 watts and 90/10. I will agree 100 % that max VG juice needs to sit longer to fully and completly mix but as far as the topic of adjusting flavor Ive never found it necaserry. If I dont like it Im just not going to like it at any temp or ratio and vise versa, if I like it Ill like it on any device any temp or VG/PG ratio.

I don't know if this has any bearing but I was talking about juices with 4 or more flavors in the recepies...does that change things?...I like th flavor but I'd like it stronger and I feel I fucked something up somewhere and am using too much flavoring

 

[wllmc]

i think i see what you are talking about. for eaxmple if I like fuji, apple pie, vienna and caramel all at 5% stand alnoe I would not combine them for a total of 20% flavoring. id cut back drastically on all of them.

 

[OBDave]

I meet very few sub-ohmers looking for 50/50 liquid. Same for, excuse the term but I find it hilarious, the "toodlepuffers" and 20/80 - usually it's exactly the opposite.

fat fingered flubs courtesy dumb mobile phone

 

[pulsevape]

I meet very few sub-ohmers looking for 50/50 liquid. Same for, excuse the term but I find it hilarious, the "toodlepuffers" and 20/80 - usually it's exactly the opposite.

fat fingered flubs courtesy dumb mobile phone

some of us are sensitive to PG..and I prefer gennys for the flavor they give...I don't like cotton,rayon,hemp, or any of the other limp wicks as they mute the flavor much more than mesh or porous ceramic wicks.

 

[pulsevape]

i think i see what you are talking about. for eaxmple if I like fuji, apple pie, vienna and caramel all at 5% stand alnoe I would not combine them for a total of 20% flavoring. id cut back drastically on all of them.

I see....so you're aiming for 5-7% flavoring total and you just keep the same ratios of flavoring within that 5-7 % actually that was my next experiment to cut down on all flavorings by 30%

 

[wllmc]

limp wicks.

hahaha this made me laugh so much..... friggin limp wicks

 

[wllmc]

I see....so you're aiming for 5-7% flavoring total and you just keep the same ratios of flavoring within that 5-7 %

pretty much yes. on the topic of FA flavors and using them exclusively my personal rule of thumb is once Ive hit 8% TOTAL flavoring i start re thinking my approach. doent really mean id just use 1% of each though. 1% fuji is going to take over any recipe with lighter flavors added, so maybe id just use 0.5% fuji and 1.5% vienna and so on to get the flavors to balance, my normal thought process (again in an FA exclusive) if i dont like something or say the fuji is just to strong I start thinking what can i take out or lower to get the others to shine better rather than my natural instinct of what can i add to boost that up.

 

[pulsevape]

hahaha this made me laugh so much..... friggin limp wicks

hey if you're gonna suck on something you want it long and hard...at least that's what me wife says.

 

[wllmc]

but we are all so different to and thats the beauty of DIY . I woundlt say smeone were wrong to use 10% fuji, if thats what a guy likes thats what a guy likes but id also recomend the guy make 10 batches and do 1% fuji, 2% fuji, 3% fuji etc and then ask again if 10% fuji was really necessary. that stuff is expensive ! lol

 

[pulsevape]

pretty much yes. on the topic of FA flavors and using them exclusively my personal rule of thumb is once Ive hit 8% TOTAL flavoring i start re thinking my approach. doent really mean id just use 1% of each though. 1% fuji is going to take over any recipe with lighter flavors added, so maybe id just use 0.5% fuji and 1.5% vienna and so on to get the flavors to balance, my normal thought process (again in an FA exclusive) if i dont like something or say the fuji is just to strong I start thinking what can i take out or lower to get the others to shine better rather than my natural instinct of what can i add to boost that up.

This is totally counter intuitive, but I will take your advice and start dialing down on stuff....instead of using 12% flavorings I'll dial everything down by 30%..thanks dude.

 

[Squonk]

pretty much yes. on the topic of FA flavors and using them exclusively my personal rule of thumb is once Ive hit 8% TOTAL flavoring i start re thinking my approach. doent really mean id just use 1% of each though. 1% fuji is going to take over any recipe with lighter flavors added, so maybe id just use 0.5% fuji and 1.5% vienna and so on to get the flavors to balance, my normal thought process (again in an FA exclusive) if i dont like something or say the fuji is just to strong I start thinking what can i take out or lower to get the others to shine better rather than my natural instinct of what can i add to boost that up.

I have a love hate with FA Fuji.

 

[wllmc]

I have a love hate with FA Fuji.

thats why I always use it as an example. tough little critter to tame sometimes lol

 

[talonz]

hahaha this made me laugh so much..... friggin limp wicks

Thanks Will. . I Was texting HiC, saw this popup in the corner, Made out limp icks ... spewed green tea on the console! !!! timing was perfect. I'd just finished laughing over a Novelty toy remark from HiC. What a great day! !
@wllmc @HeadInClouds

 

[pulsevape]

I'm trying to make an absinthe with tobacco, anise,clove, mint, and orange, but the anise doesn't shine through as much as I'd like and I'm using anise as the strongest flavor.

 

[wllmc]

This is totally counter intuitive, but I will take your advice and start dialing down on stuff....instead of using 12% flavorings I'll dial everything down by 30%..thanks dude.

worth trying anyways

 

[wllmc]

Thanks Will. . I Was texting HiC, saw this popup in the corner, Made out limp icks ... spewed green tea on the console! !!! timing was perfect. I'd just finished laughing over a Novelty toy remark from HiC. What a great day! !
@wllmc @HeadInClouds

haha becareful..... awesome profile pic by the way

 

[wllmc]

I'm trying to make an absinthe with tobacco, anise,clove, mint, and orange, but the anise doesn't shine through as much as I'd like and I'm using anise as the strongest flavor.

interesting ! I could see how that would be a big attention grabber and a unique and creative mix. how much anise are you using ? you might just be better off using a little TFA absthine on that one and maybe add the anise as a booster if needed after that

 

[pulsevape]

I was using 4% anise I think maybe dialing down on the orange might help let the anise shine...the tobacco is my own extract and not that overpowering.as it is a NET extract.

 

[wllmc]

I was using 4% anise I think maybe dialing down on the orange might help let the anise shine

if you want to PM me a copy of your recipe Ill take a look at it and give my personal thought on it. I think you are on the right track though

 

[talonz]

I'm trying to make an absinthe with tobacco, anise,clove, mint, and orange, but the anise doesn't shine through as much as I'd like and I'm using anise as the strongest flavor.

Take time to read HiC's @HeadInClouds notes on FA flavors. It's a very comprehensive look into the heart of each flavor, it's strengths and compliments. I'm it will answer a lot of questions.

 

[Mattp169]

using 10% max for FA is a guide line.
now if you are 20% I would worry

but if your at 10.5,11,12 maybe even 13% theres nothing wrong with that. it may work for that recipe and for you

But you may be able to cut everything back a little and be under 10% and get the same flavor

which goes back to what wllmc was saying 10% fuji try other %s and see if 10% is necessary

but for a single flavor the % is usually higher for fa then when you combine it with other flavors. when you start combining you normally use less depending on the balance you want in the final profile.

if you find that this recipe works but you want to tweak it by adding more flavors, then you may need to cut the %s back on the original recipe

for example
i like fa white peach at 4-5%
same for fa peach
i like fa mango at 1-1.5%

now if i wanted to combine teh three as I do for peach mango
i dont just do 4-5% of each peach and 1.5% mango

i do 3% fa white peach, so its dominent
then 2% peach to round out the white peach
then .75-1% mango - cuz its strong and it depend son my mood and vapers tongue

now to make that creamier
i add 1% vanilla,1%fresh cream
then to help the peach from dieing off i add 1% pear to help the peach pop
then for the hell of it
i add .5% caramel for more complexity of flavoring

so now im at 9.5% total flavoring
no big deal

 

[wllmc]

anise is a pretty sturdy flavor. I think your right lower everything down . what I would do is build around the anise then add orange or whatever to get your absthine flavor , get that to the strength you would like and then start dropping the tobacco in

 

[CorruptedOnce]

I created an account to just respond to this thread.

Like many others, I stumbled onto this site when I was looking to get started on DIY. I knew nothing. After 4 months of reading, turning my study room into a scene from Breaking Bad, and littering my place with little bottles and syringes like a crack house - I have a much better grasp of what's going on now.

From the Recipe thread, HIC seems to be one of the more popular members due to his creativity and generosity (sharing recipes and the time he seems to take to help, troubleshoot, and engage with other members). I've noticed two things about his recipes: 1) Most of his ingredients come are FlavourArt and 2) the mixtures seem to be less than 10% of total volume ( 1.5% of A, 1% of B, .5% of C, .5% of D, .5% of E, etc)

Can everyone please be honest for a moment? If you're making 20ml, with 50% PG and 50% VG (notice how I note which is PG and VG - it's annoying when people say 70/30 - WHICH IS 70??) and your recipe says to use 3% Vienna Cream FA and 1.5% Caramel FA - Do you really taste anything? I can barely even smell anything with 4.5% flavoring in the bottle.

I actually started to believe that there was something wrong with my olfactory senses OR everyone on this forum was playing a giant joke on casual readers that they "loved the taste" of these 6% flavored recipes.

Assuming that that you truly make these recipes as given and you enjoy 4-6% recipes, how do you consume Premium E-Juice? That is, if you go into a vape shop and buy something off the counter, these juices are extremely aromatic and full flavored. You can smell them without even putting your nose into the bottle. They taste exactly how you'd expect them to. I can't imagine that premium recipes are 4-6%. They must knock you down with all that full flavor.

I get the fact that everyone has their preferences. I think what I'd like to hear is that there are only a few people out of many that mix these juices as they're presented (aside from the minor tweaks or substitutions) while the vast (silent) majority are actually mixing them at 3X or 4X to get any flavor. I don't buy the following statement: "If you're mixing at 10% or over, you need to go back and see what you did wrong" This is an arrogant statement and assumes that everyone should also enjoy kale salads.

 

[talonz]

Believe me you're going to get all the answers that you could possibly want and more. but in my opinion that's what you're trolling for.
/shrug

 

[Squonk]

I created an account to just respond to this thread.

Like many others, I stumbled onto this site when I was looking to get started on DIY. I knew nothing. After 4 months of reading, turning my study room into a scene from Breaking Bad, and littering my place with little bottles and syringes like a crack house - I have a much better grasp of what's going on now.

From the Recipe thread, HIC seems to be one of the more popular members due to his creativity and generosity (sharing recipes and the time he seems to take to help, troubleshoot, and engage with other members). I've noticed two things about his recipes: 1) Most of his ingredients come are FlavourArt and 2) the mixtures seem to be less than 10% of total volume ( 1.5% of A, 1% of B, .5% of C, .5% of D, .5% of E, etc)

Can everyone please be honest for a moment? If you're making 20ml, with 50% PG and 50% VG (notice how I note which is PG and VG - it's annoying when people say 70/30 - WHICH IS 70??) and your recipe says to use 3% Vienna Cream FA and 1.5% Caramel FA - Do you really taste anything? I can barely even smell anything with 4.5% flavoring in the bottle.

I actually started to believe that there was something wrong with my olfactory senses OR everyone on this forum was playing a giant joke on casual readers that they "loved the taste" of these 6% flavored recipes.

Assuming that that you truly make these recipes as given and you enjoy 4-6% recipes, how do you consume Premium E-Juice? That is, if you go into a vape shop and buy something off the counter, these juices are extremely aromatic and full flavored. You can smell them without even putting your nose into the bottle. They taste exactly how you'd expect them to. I can't imagine that premium recipes are 4-6%. They must knock you down with all that full flavor.

I get the fact that everyone has their preferences. I think what I'd like to hear is that there are only a few people out of many that mix these juices as they're presented (aside from the minor tweaks or substitutions) while the vast (silent) majority are actually mixing them at 3X or 4X to get any flavor. I don't buy the following statement: "If you're mixing at 10% or over, you need to go back and see what you did wrong" This is an arrogant statement and assumes that everyone should also enjoy kale salads.

I'll bite. You haven't stated that you have tried FA flavors to any degree of certainty. If you have you would know. I actually have a few 4-5 total %FA recipes that are quite flavorful. All recipes can be adjusted to your taste and gear.

 

[talonz]

Had you done the comprehensive reading you claim, there wouldn't be the confusion on your part of pg/vg order. It's industry standard. If you have syringes and bottles littering your place to resemble a crack house. .. i know you didn't read anything here.
@Squonk I'm still not biting, just being a girl lol.

 

[CorruptedOnce]

Whoops, I should have been more clear. I wrote that post during a conference call and wasn't as focused (on the post nor the call) as I should have.

Yes, I bought 12 different FA flavors from Bull City Vapors based on posts and feedback in the Recipes thread.

The 2 responses so far are interesting. Does my original post come across as passive aggressive? Or just aggressive? That wasn't my intent. I've read a bunch of other posts that lead go over "what went wrong" to see if there's something going on with my setup or mixing. I'm not ruling any of that out, but I'm getting consistent results with different combinations.

I can solve the only issue I have with increasing the percentages. The recipes are fine. Everything smells/tastes as I'd expect. I'm just curious as to how many of you can truly smell/taste the flavors at those original distributions @5% or so.

If we use premium juice (store bought) as a baseline, these recipes seem to be much weaker - in my opinion.

 

[CorruptedOnce]

To Talonz: 1) Obviously, I didn't turn a room in my house into a m*th lab and 2) I don't have blunt tip needles laying all over the floor.

When I'm ready to mix something, I start Virtual PC and launch eJuiceCalculator in a Windows 10 sandbox (to keep all the libraries off my core OS). I lay out about 35 10-15ml bottles of flavoring (FA and TFA). Then the 2 giant PG and VG bottles. And finally, a NIC bottle in a separate plastic tub.

The initial description was meant to describe a commitment to this. Not to broadcast to everyone that I'm a slob. I'm the exact opposite.

 

[talonz]

I

Whoops, .

actually to me it came off like trolling aggressiveness but...perhaps its your receptors.I don't taste most any of them without doubling but i also don't taste most notes in bender juice. In that case, you find what stands out and take it from there. I'm blonde and the last to know but others here wrote the books on diy. So yeah.. i respect them, and those learning as well

 

[talonz]

You said. "After 4 months of reading, turning my study room into a scene from Breaking Bad, and littering my place with little bottles and syringes like a ***** house - I have a much better grasp of what's going on now."

So..........

 

[pulsevape]

I created an account to just respond to this thread.

Like many others, I stumbled onto this site when I was looking to get started on DIY. I knew nothing. After 4 months of reading, turning my study room into a scene from Breaking Bad, and littering my place with little bottles and syringes like a ***** house - I have a much better grasp of what's going on now.

From the Recipe thread, HIC seems to be one of the more popular members due to his creativity and generosity (sharing recipes and the time he seems to take to help, troubleshoot, and engage with other members). I've noticed two things about his recipes: 1) Most of his ingredients come are FlavourArt and 2) the mixtures seem to be less than 10% of total volume ( 1.5% of A, 1% of B, .5% of C, .5% of D, .5% of E, etc)

Can everyone please be honest for a moment? If you're making 20ml, with 50% PG and 50% VG (notice how I note which is PG and VG - it's annoying when people say 70/30 - WHICH IS 70??) and your recipe says to use 3% Vienna Cream FA and 1.5% Caramel FA - Do you really taste anything? I can barely even smell anything with 4.5% flavoring in the bottle.

I actually started to believe that there was something wrong with my olfactory senses OR everyone on this forum was playing a giant joke on casual readers that they "loved the taste" of these 6% flavored recipes.

Assuming that that you truly make these recipes as given and you enjoy 4-6% recipes, how do you consume Premium E-Juice? That is, if you go into a vape shop and buy something off the counter, these juices are extremely aromatic and full flavored. You can smell them without even putting your nose into the bottle. They taste exactly how you'd expect them to. I can't imagine that premium recipes are 4-6%. They must knock you down with all that full flavor.

I get the fact that everyone has their preferences. I think what I'd like to hear is that there are only a few people out of many that mix these juices as they're presented (aside from the minor tweaks or substitutions) while the vast (silent) majority are actually mixing them at 3X or 4X to get any flavor. I don't buy the following statement: "If you're mixing at 10% or over, you need to go back and see what you did wrong" This is an arrogant statement and assumes that everyone should also enjoy kale salads.

Thanks for your post and your courage to question the staus quo..I think that is as important as following sage advice.....I am doing both, and see which one works best for me.....I am taking the generous advice of wllmc and just mixed a juice that nets out at 8.5% flavoring....presently I'm vaping the same juice at around 15% flavoring which I'm really enjoying but I wanted to tweak. wllmc made the brilliant suggestion of instead of increasing the flavor you want to stand out front rather than use more of it...tone eveything else down...
I agree with alot of what you are saying. but I should also say I find most juices sickingly overly sweet with cheap cloying flavors that make your atty reek, and force you to break it down and clean it everytime you change flavors.....I share alot of your same experince, but I know I have a highly developed sense of taste because I cook alot and can taste and detect ingredients and spices alot of people can't...like I say I have a 8.5 FA juice in the hopper we'll see...they other juices I've DIY were all NET juices which I extracted myslef and usually used them at 12-14% extract.
Above you may notice Mattp has used up to 13% flavorings, so it's not unheard of...who knows it may also be a matter of some folks like intensity and some don't ....I had a friend once who thought "garlic" was a spice....I told him garlic was a food group...........

 

[Heabob]

A lot of ppl here double most of HIC's recipes, (he has super sensitive taste buds).

And most of the vendor juice is over flavored and over sweetened IMO.

Think I fall somewhere in between, average anywhere from 6% to 20% total.
(No, they're not Tiramisu or Coffee either)

But honestly I think I've been using way more TFA, CAP, FW, & FE than FA, except for a few I really like.

I'm just not concerned about vaping the "baddies", (and many of my favorite flavors), FA just falls short for me.

However, some I just haven't found anything better than FA, like Coconut, Lemon Sicily, Cookie, Jamaican Rum, to name a few.

But I just can't stand any Cherry, Cranberry, Raspberry, Strawberry, and Kiwi, so many recipes are out the window.

 

[Mattp169]

ok
ill bite as well

HOw long has i t been since you quit smoking - I ask becuase if your taste buds changing.

now if youve been off the cigarettes for 6 months + then we will assume your not still recovering them.
but i fnot that may be why these recipes seem weak

Please also remember HIC SUB OHMS as do alot of us DIY'ers that can have an effect on how much you taste as well.

It may also be your gear.some tanks/drippers/etc give off more flavor then others

Your nicotine can effect how much the flavors pop as well. Many, but not all agree Vapers tec Nic lets the flavors come through more then most other brands, but there are other brands that are just as well received such as nude nicotine.

if you read through some of HIC threads, you will find many people doubling the amounts. - To each their own.there is nothing wrong with that.

i also get confused alot of times when someone types 70/30 i just always assume VG is the higher amount in these threads. Im usually right doing that

the low amount percentage wise for flavor art is in comparison to other brands namely CAP and TFA.

SO for example if you feel that flavor CAP X is good stand alone at 12% the same flavor from FA is going to most likely be used at a much lower percentage probably 3-5% in comparison.

Many flavors regardless of brand when you use too much of it will change flavor. They can be come metallic,chemically or sometime seven floral tasting.
some flavors like certain tobaccos will often have different highlights and undertones when used at different %s. Meaning at 5% it may taste one way and at 8% it has a different taste.

vendor juice to me can either have little flavor or just way too much/plus alot of times it just tastes horrible because of the flavors they use.

For example a local shop uses either CAP or TFA for their peach flavor, I HATE THAT FLAVORING it tastes like dollar store reject hard candy. The last time I bought some after I had been making my own juice with FA peach, I found that vendor juice which I used to like on my 2 ohm iclear 30s to be way overpowering in flavor on my kanger subtank, plus I discovered i HATE THAT BRAND OF FLAVORING for peach.

you have to remember most vendor juices were designed and sold before subohming became the IN thing. Subohming changes things and can often make what used to taste great into something that is now horrible and the recipe needs adjusted

I have @wllmc mix me up batches in 4oz bottles of HICs 3 Milkey Musketters...it comes out to be 8%
I mix it up though closer to 10%

the point is there are many reasons, the same juice may taste wildly different to 2 or 3 people, but could taste the same for others.
Any recipe is a GUIDE. its the ratios that matter just like a drink mix.

my suggestion if you find most posted recipes to be too weak is to make a flavor base
a bottle that is just the flavors in the right ratios

then make testers up using the supplied percentage in your pg/vg/nic and if its too weak, just add more flavor base.

theres nothing wrong with you if you find recipes by HIC weak, just increase the % which is easy to do with a flavor base
but there is also nothing wrong with those who find HICs numbers to be accurate for them

i would also suggest getting some fa white peach

try it at 3%
then try it at about 6%

i personally find at 3% its pretty good, but if i was using it as a stand alone flavor i would go to at least 4%
but once I hit 6 or 7% i get a floral taste in it that i do not like.
try this experiment yourself, or perhaps someone can suggest a similar experiment with a flavor you have.
If you do not detect the floral taste at the higher percentage then there is something different between you and me thats all

everyone is different, we all use different equipment and have different vaping styles, but with DIY you can adjust for YOU
just remember the ratio is what matters in a recipe not the actual %

 

[PuffPuffPass]

.....
had a friend once who thought "garlic" was a spice....I told him garlic was a food group...........

I'm laughing here. Because I have to throw garlic on the grill, every time I fire it up. I can't eat it that way. But I've sat and watched my girl eat two entire "cloves?" with her regular meal. My dad is the same.

So yup. Garlic is a food group. And one hell of a food enhancer IMO

 

[AmandaD]

ok
ill bite as well


Please also remember HIC SUB OHMS as do alot of us DIY'ers that can have an effect on how much you taste as well.

Actually, HIC doesn't subohm and, I believe, still uses evods. That said, there's nothing wrong with adjusting the total percentage of a recipe to suit your own taste. I use mainly FA and generally vape a total mix around 8%, but when I make the same mix for my friend who uses a Nautilus I will often make hers at 10%.

 

[Squonk]

I mix samples for my buddy and he can't taste crap. He's a one flavor ADV all the time kinda guy. The only thing he likes that I've made him is CAPs Cool Mint stand alone at crazy high %'s. In fact I had to buy 2 bottles of the stuff just to keep him quite for awhile.

 

[Dixie1954]

Yeah I still use EVODs as testers for my flavorings and I use way less than most. The general breakdown for tasters is 25% are super tasters, 50% are in the middle and then the other 25% need a lot of flavoring to taste. So now you can see why juice makers/sellers try for the 75% and do that by IMHO over flavoring the juice. So when I try flavorings I go way down from the suggested amounts given. When I first started DIY I could use HIC's amounts usually but now I have no idea where I'd use them at. I do mostly baccy mixes at tiny amounts now.

 

[Briandesimone]

IMO recipes are made to tweak to your own personal tastes.

 

[CorruptedOnce]

I'd like to thank everyone for taking the time to provide their thoughts and opinions. It's been really helpful.

In the spirit of Pulsevape's original post (since this is his thread), I just wanted to see how everyone interprets recipes from this forum. I guess I should have been more open to the fact that this is truly DIY and the recipes here are meant to be tweaked. I'm pretty sure just about everyone does this, since the results from mixing as-is are either too strong, too weak, or unexpected (equipment/process failure).

Then there are the personal differences. With these fragrances, I notice that I am less sensitive to the inhaled tastes and exhaled flavors than some other people (who can break down the ingredients based on one tank of juice - if you can do this, you have a gift). I seem to need much higher ratios of flavoring per batch than a lot of you. Sucks for me.

Interestingly, I've been building custom AR-15 rifles for about 5 years and have been shooting since I was a teenager (long time ago). I can immediately smell the difference between different brands of ammunition after the casings are ejected but I'm having a heck of a time with these juices that I'm directly inhaling.

 

[immortal_vaper187]

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[Jmitch86]

Do It YOURSELF.... ???? Get it... ?


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[TF Vaping]

Do It YOURSELF.... ???? Get it... ?


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Best way to do it. You already know EXACTLY what you want. You can make it a quickie or you can make it last.

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[DarkJester89]

If you think something having a subohm tank that they wont be building.. I think you need to go read about rba attachments.
Subtank mini comes with its own seperate rba in the box and the uwell crown comes separately

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