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Is the guy at my local b&m store right about this?

BluelineVapor

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So I'm just wondering, just came from the local b&m store and asked him for suggestions RDA suggestions for my first hybrid mod. He said right off the back I DO NOT want to use an adjustable pin RDA (anything with a flat head screw on the bottom is what he actually said) and said I should only use flush bottom 510 connections on the bottom of my RDA as risk of "blowing up my face". Iv honestly with everything Iv read never heard of this. Can anyone confirm or point me in the right direction? My current set up is Hanya RDA(flat head screw on bottom) and Kennedy clone(flush bottom) and I'm getting a noisy cricket in the mail any day now. Please let me know, I'm kinda worried about using my other RDA's because I want to do this safely.
 

stevegmu

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The center pin needs to go past the 510 connector. Adjustable ones can come loose and move up, causing exploding issues...
 

BluelineVapor

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See that what I thought, I know it needs to make a good connection, but my henya protrudes more then my Kennedy, and he was telling me that it's fine, and to just make sure I don't use the flat head screw bottom ones.
 

robot zombie

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*sigh* A true flush-bottom will short on a hybrid. A battery top is just a nice flat surface for a flush positive and negative to make contact with. It's fine with standard 510's because the positive on the mod is smaller than the positive on the atty, so it never touches the negative.

He's right about the adjustable pin, to an extent. The problem with them is that once you back them out a bit, they can migrate as you're screwing in the button, which can also cause a short. Sometimes, all it takes is for that battery topper to have a slight pitch to it in order to make the pin shift inside the atty itself and short.

What you want is an atty with a secure, protruding 510 pin... ...it should poke out in its fully retracted position, adjustable or not. Basically, if it still pokes out after being tightened as far as it can go, you're good.

It really doesn't need to protrude a lot. Even a millimeter is enough. I've heard of people backing their pins out a bit... ...don't do that if it already pokes out even a little. It's more important that it sits at an even pitch and stays put in there. If it doesn't make contact, then don't use it or see if you can't set the throw further up on your button or just bring the whole button up further in order to make contact.

Just whatever you do, never put anything with a spring-loaded pin on there. There has been a run of people in the news popping their hybrids by screwing tanks with spring-loaded pins onto hybrids.

EDIT: Beat to the punch on this one...
 
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BluelineVapor

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So this: my Kennedy clone would be fine you assume?
 

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robot zombie

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So this: my Kennedy clone would be fine you assume?
If that's where the pin sits at its tightest, then yes. Perfectly fine to use with a Noisy Cricket.

Hope you enjoy that NC, btw. I will just say that there are reasons it has sort of a cult following... ...good and bad.
 

ej1024

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Like what others said,the more the 510 protrude the safer you are, I would highly suggest get a RDA/RTA/CLEARO that has a secure PIN PROTRUDING... This hybrids are just too risky... Not for me



Vape On
 

f1r3b1rd

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What Rob SAID !

I have a noisy cricket, i use an indestructible or a bambino on it and that's it.
 

martnargh

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When you screw the atty on the mod and the pin is adjustable it can work its way back in and cause a dead short. I wouldnt use an adjustable pinned atty on a hybrid not even a reverse threaded one... just get a petri or a compvapes atty or a destructible... those all work on hybrids without needing to adjust anything.

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robot zombie

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just get a petri or a compvapes atty or a destructible...
??? Is that the one that DOES crush when put into a compactor? Or is that just what we're calling Indestructible clones?

Sorry, couldn't resist.

I agree, though. Compvape has some boss 510's. They're beefy motherfuckers that don't go nowhere. They naturally stick out a good 2-3 millimeters. Wotofo has really stepped up their 510 game, too. The Sapor and Lush play nicely with hybrids.

Like what others said,the more the 510 protrude the safer you are, I would highly suggest get a RDA/RTA/CLEARO that has a secure PIN PROTRUDING... This hybrids are just too risky... Not for me]
There are definitely some real risks to using them. Personally, I've been using them since they hit the scene with no problems, but many reservations. The reduced voltage drop is definitely a plus, but you do have to make some common sense judgement calls. It isn't worth taking any risks just to get a few extra tenths of a volt. I've always approached it like this: if there's any doubt... ...anything that makes you the least bit uncomfortable using it on a hybrid, then DON'T USE IT ON A HYBRID.

It's really simple. You just have to examine the atty. Take the pin out and see how it's all held together. Take a moment to feel for any play as you remove/replace the pin. Just see how snug it really is. Try to visualize what will happen to that pin when you screw the atty down. Good hybrids are designed to have no internal movement aside from the button assembly. If, after a quick examination, it can be determined that the pin isn't going to move during or after everything has been assembled, you can vape with confidence. If the atty doesn't give and the mod doesn't give, then you're in business. From there, you just have to check to make sure the pin is staying in place from time to time.

There was a time when atties had considerably more 510 pin troubles than they do now - it was basically expected that posts would eventually spin. Not so much these days. Manufacturers are getting better at making them secure and holding the center post in place. Buy from one that's been around for a few years and you should be alright. Avoid clones. Many are just fine, but some of them are still in the dark ages with their 510 design and insulators. You still have to check them out either way, though.
 

f1r3b1rd

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ordinarily the Aeolus would be an awesome hybrid atty, it has one of the biggest 510 pins I've seen. BUT it wouls tight to put a large enough build in there for a series box with 24g. The OP would have to use 26g or 28g.
 

BluelineVapor

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Follow up: ended up just getting the indestructible RDA for now. Once I get more comfortable with using it I'll be able to gauge what's safe and what's not. Thanks for the input all!
 

pulsevape

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OK..I'm not getting all this...when I was a newbie I had a little aga-t2 genny, and I grabbed my atty one day and just cranked it down on my mod without adjusting the firing pin in my mod.....when I cranked the atty down on the mod's firing pin it drove the 510 contact in the atty up into the atty and the firing pin in the mod made contact with the 510 and my mod suddenly got hotter and hotter I quickly unscrewed the mod opened the mod up and the battery wrap had started melting.....it did not explode....how come it didn't explode....why do we have venting in mods if shorting them causes explosions.why are we suddenly seeing this rash of explosions with these sub ohm tanks on hybrids...we've had hybrid adapeters for years and people have been using them with adjustable atty pins for years, so what's going on.
 
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BoomStick

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just make sure I don't use the flat head screw bottom ones.
That's nonsense. All of my rebuildable's have a flat head screw positive pin and none of them are adjustable. How far the pin protrudes past the threads and how secure the pin is matters. A straight slot on the pin means nothing.
 

BigNasty

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OK..I'm not getting all this...when I was a newbie I had a little aga-t2 genny, and I grabbed my atty one day and just cranked it down on my mod without adjusting the firing pin in my mod.....when I cranked the atty down on the mod's firing pin it drove the 510 contact in the atty up into the atty and the firing pin in the mod made contact with the 510 and my mod suddenly got hotter and hotter I quickly unscrewed the mod opened the mod up and the battery wrap had started melting.....it did not explode....how come it didn't explode....why do we have venting in mods if shorting them causes explosions.why are we suddenly seeing this rash of explosions with these sub ohm tanks on hybrids...we've had hybrid adapeters for years and people have been using them with adjustable atty pins for years, so what's going on.
People who do not know any better selling them to people that should have a clue, shitty batteries and set ups for failure out of the store.
 

pulsevape

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That's nonsense. All of my rebuildable's have a flat head screw positive pin and none of them are adjustable. How far the pin protrudes past the threads and how secure the pin is matters. A straight slot on the pin means nothing.
I have attys with flat head adjustable screw pins.
 

martnargh

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Ya nailed me.... indestructible*

Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk
 

robot zombie

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OK..I'm not getting all this...when I was a newbie I had a little aga-t2 genny, and I grabbed my atty one day and just cranked it down on my mod without adjusting the firing pin in my mod.....when I cranked the atty down on the mod's firing pin it drove the 510 contact in the atty up into the atty and the firing pin in the mod made contact with the 510 and my mod suddenly got hotter and hotter I quickly unscrewed the mod opened the mod up and the battery wrap had started melting.....it did not explode....how come it didn't explode....why do we have venting in mods if shorting them causes explosions.why are we suddenly seeing this rash of explosions with these sub ohm tanks on hybrids...we've had hybrid adapeters for years and people have been using them with adjustable atty pins for years, so what's going on.
Depends on the nature of the short, I suppose. If it's a small short from say, the positive pin to the negative threading, then there's only a small channel for the current to travel through. Like, if you have the positive and negative touching the positive end of the battery, then you have the shot circulating across those and the top of the battery. There's a bottleneck on the smallest point of contact - the negative. That surface-area of that bottleneck makes it harder for voltage to push current in. There's a limit to how much current the voltage can push through that tiny, singular pathway.

Anybody know what effect this has on resistance? My gut tells me that as the current is flying through this tiny path and heating it up, the resistance starts to go up and it gets harder for the initial current spike to be sustained. That heat has to do something to the structural integrity of the metal. I would assume that a piece of metal that's getting hot enough to fragment and undergo all of these molecular shifts isn't going to carry as much current, as the pathways have become garbled. Current should thus pass through more slowly.

Now, if the insulator failed and the whole pin was making contact with the negative, that's a much larger surface for the current to move across. You now have multiple entry points. The larger the contact surface, the more current you get for your voltage. The current doesn't have to compete for that one-lane road and since the voltage is pushing just as hard as before, more energy is released.

Perhaps with these newer spring-loaded tanks, it could be that the placement/characteristics of insulator and pin assembly has changed in such a way that a failure results in a bigger short. Internally, contact points are bigger. Fatter posts, bigger pins, etc... ...what starts initially as an external short becomes an internal short when the heat melts the insulator and brings the pin in contact with the deck inside and the current shoots right up through that shit.

A hot spring would probably help reduce the likelihood of this happening. I don't see why they can't be designed like mech buttons sometimes are... ...with the hot spring that breaks the circuit when the short comes through and melts it... ...or maybe insulate the spring mechanism with a material that melts like wax after a certain temperature and floods all of the contact points inside the 510.


This has got me thinking... ...maybe it's not hybrids that we should be focusing on. The problem is with the design of the spring-loaded atty. It's unnecessary for most mods. I can think of no reason why a pin on an atty should move at all. It just seems like this could all be prevented if we kept the spring-loaded 510's on the mod. I know those have their pitfalls, but their flaws are all fixable.

Moving contact points, in general, are probably something we need to be moving away from. If there was any standardization for connectors beyond the fucking diameter, all of our mods and atties would probably be a fuckton safer.

I dunno, just some hair-brained pocket change. I'm not basing any of this on anything concrete.
 

stevegmu

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510 should be obsolete, but is here to stay. It is the cheapest connection to manufacture...
 

robot zombie

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510 should be obsolete, but is here to stay. It is the cheapest connection to manufacture...
Yeah... ...plus it's established as sort of the de-facto connection type. Nobody wants to make a mod that you can't use the majority of atties with or vise versa. They made sense when we were dealing with cigalikes, but with the bigger stuff coming out nowadays, they don't make a lick of sense to keep around. It's frustrating for users and designers alike, no doubt.
 

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