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Is this Influx of Forum Noobs Suspicious to anybody else?


gsmit1

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I certainly would NEVER want to discourage new vapers from visiting forums like this. Just the opposite.

That said, this has been nagging at me for a couple weeks and I could be totally wrong. In fact, I'm not even asserting anything so much as just asking the question.

Why is it that as the PMTA deadline approached and now that it's past there seems to be this quite unusually high number of first time "I'm new to everything" posts popping up all over the place?

What finally persuaded me to ask this question is that I was just over at POTV and they have their forum software set to display 18 posts per page under "New Posts."

Of course they don't have PMTA over there, but of the 18 posts under new posts, 10 of them are brand new people. I've been going there for at least a year and have never seen anything like this.

Here too lately there seems to be all of a sudden an influx of "Hello there, I don't know what I'm doing" posts.

OR, sometimes just "Been vaping for a while, but finally decided to join the forum" posts.

Just seems odd to me.
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~Don~

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They all have to start somewhere...

But at least it’s not that one guy, “OMG 3F sold me a clone”

Fucking jerky

But yeah, you’d think they would of had some urgency to learn about the deeming regs etc... but no... last minute preppers.


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Ms. Trixy

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I see what you're saying G-Man. And yes, it does seem worrisome. Without sounding paranoid, our freedom of speech forums appear to have an influx of "new" vapers. Could it be coincidense or is it the perfect time to gather intel. Perhaps there are people here that want more than vaping advice. Our forum is a wealth of information that can be gleened by anyone, including anti-vaping, FDA persons getting a better glimps on where we shop and how we shop. Again, I know it sounds far fetched, but it's certainly possible.
 

~Don~

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Yeah im one of those guys. Been vaping for 6 years but new to the forums. I joined because of the pmtas It's the only way to keep up with whats going on. I know all about clones and "styled" products. I won't complain about that. Bought many of em from Fasttech over the years.

Oh we don’t give two shits if you buy clones

Just a guy was salty cause he believed a China site known for selling clones and well he got clones

It even says it at the bottom of all their listings too...




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The Cromwell

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Welcome to all the newbies here.

No clone wars here.

Any FDA spies can just consume excrement and expire.

Everyone else have fun.

The FDA has said they will be watching various online medias for enforcement.
For this reason any advice on going around FDA rulz please use PM's
We do not want to give the FDA our good secrets.
 

joha_wa_alhimar

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I would be against clones if authentics weren't so damn expensive. I understand things like limited runs, but for some things like mech mods, they're just fancy brass or steel tubes.

Having said that, I used to own clones (a Stingray and a Manhattan, for example) but now don't, since I can afford to support the companies I like. I wouldn't hold it against anyone though.

I'd welcome any new people. Let them gather data if they want; it's not like any shops are secrets, nor do we have any black market juice rings being run or anything.
 

JuicyLucy

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Yeah, been a little leery of all the newbs lately - just because of the FDA statement

Sad, because I'm sure most are legit and the ones that need our help need it more than ever
 

Carambrda

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I would be against clones if authentics weren't so damn expensive. I understand things like limited runs, but for some things like mech mods, they're just fancy brass or steel tubes.

Having said that, I used to own clones (a Stingray and a Manhattan, for example) but now don't, since I can afford to support the companies I like. I wouldn't hold it against anyone though.

I'd welcome any new people. Let them gather data if they want; it's not like any shops are secrets, nor do we have any black market juice rings being run or anything.
I'm not against clones, but I am against people trying to mislead others with all kinds of disinformation about differences between clones and their authentic counterpart, like, when people try to suggest that differences are too small to even be noticed while vaping. The reality is that, often times, these differences are so noticeable in fact, you'd have to be half blind to not be able to see them by just looking at pics that are floating around on the internet. Other times, yes of course getting the clone version of an atomizer might actually be a worthy alternative choice for those who lack the financial resources to buy a decent authentic atomizer instead, but then, this changes nothing of the fact that a lot of trying to do one's own research is required to weed out all the nonsensical claims like people claiming there are no differences when everyone can see for theirself that, just to name only one example, the clone version of the 24mm Deathtrap RDA has no front airflow hole whatsoever and uses a cap that is made out of a single piece, very unlike the authentic that has individually adjustable airflow on both the rear and the front because it uses a barrel and a chuff for that exact purpose.

Also, this changes nothing of the fact that clones would cease to be made if all the designers of the authentics would stop creating new designs that keep vaping alive, as nobody would still be buying authentics if differences weren't real. So, because there are differences, and because differences can be rather enormous also in addition to that, people who buy the clone to try it in order to be able to judge how an authentic will be like before they decide on whether or not they will spend their cash on the authentic are being (often seriously) deluded.

What also tends to bother me a lot is when people knock on an authentic for how it performs about the same as any other, much more affordable one, when all they really did was put in an underperforming coil build, position the coil(s) wrong, adjust the airflow wrong, make it a poor wicking job, juice it up in such a noobish way that air got trapped inside the cotton, and, they also couldn't for the life of them figure out why you need to also pulse it briefly before continuing to juice it up by dripping drops of juice straight onto the coils as opposed to merely painting the entire shit (also including their mod...) with juice as if nothing can ever matter at all. Not to mention the fact these people often typically will vape on those coil sizes at those wattages that are so totally out of line compared to the build space and chamber size of their choice of atomizer that it is only normal that everything that isn't complete garbage will vape almost identical.

I like to think of vaping like an art. In art, subtle details make a profound difference, and you can't judge a real painting by looking at a low rez poorly angled dirty lens overly lit and out of focus photograph of a painting that has been printed out through an inkjet printer on a normal, coarse-fiber sheet of paper with a refilled ink cartridge the ink in which is so cheap that it causes droplets to be bigger than normal. This was no rant. Rather, it was purely common sense... which some people seem to lack and be proud about lacking.
 

Just Frank

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I see what you're saying G-Man. And yes, it does seem worrisome. Without sounding paranoid, our freedom of speech forums appear to have an influx of "new" vapers. Could it be coincidense or is it the perfect time to gather intel. Perhaps there are people here that want more than vaping advice. Our forum is a wealth of information that can be gleened by anyone, including anti-vaping, FDA persons getting a better glimps on where we shop and how we shop. Again, I know it sounds far fetched, but it's certainly possible.
This has always been on my mind. I'm sure there's been plants in a lot of forums. Either whistle blowers, concerned mom orgs, or people collecting info for government agencies. I could just be paranoid but these platforms are open for anyone. Sometimes I see posts like "Who still ships flavored juice to NY?" It's not a good idea to answer questions like that if you know of places.
 

Ms. Trixy

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This has always been on my mind. I'm sure there's been plants in a lot of forums. Either whistle blowers, concerned mom orgs, or people collecting info for government agencies. I could just be paranoid but these platforms are open for anyone. Sometimes I see posts like "Who still ships flavored juice to NY?" It's not a good idea to answer questions like that if you know of places.
I wonder if even mentioning where we get stuff and 'how' we get stuff is a good idea. Fuckin' FDA.
 

Synphul

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Not sure, may have to do with Joe posting more about it, promoting it. Things like 'this is the time we planned for' and stuff regarding the forums. Could be FDA asshats but they can spy the forums without being a member. Watch all the conversations and stuff and we wouldn't know they were (though we could assume).

I know as the deadline got closer and a few days past a big influx of people in all different vape groups on fb going 'what are these pmta's I keep hearing about?'. So it's not just here. And for awhile the groups were all getting snarky saying we keep preaching to the choir yapping about advocacy and deadlines amongst ourselves, we already know. We need to get the message out to others. Well apparently not all vapers were in the loop (though not sure how they missed it - only been the top topic for how long now?). Lots of people getting into diy or even rebuildables even though so many reviewers said 'now's the time to look at getting a rebuildable, just in case' for months.

Or others I've seen. "I live in xyz state (with vape bans) and I went to order and they won't ship to me. How come?". Like dude, your state's been blocking online orders for months. Word travels slow to some. And others have mentioned they've been to various shops and mentioned pmta's and their shops don't have a clue what that is. Not just one or two, a fair handful. Enough to be scary that they were so clueless (their own fault). If anything the shops should kinda be up on industry news. At least the cliff notes.
 

nadalama

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Well, seems to me like if a shop can pretend they don't know, then they'll do that.

Most of them seem like it's gonna be business as usual until someone MAKES them stop selling.

I have been waiting, and have talked with @wildgypsy70 about, an influx of people needing to know how to DIY, but so far it hasn't happened. People are buying juice somehow, some way. I think DIY or Die is having something of an increase in noobs, but nothing like I'd have expected to see.

It's almost like the shops who promoted advocacy (who "outed" themselves as KNOWING that a deadline was coming) are the ones that have folded, or at least have restricted entire product lines, like thezfo.com.

It also could be true that more companies submitted PMTA applications than we expected, even if they had to just throw something together, if the FDA accepted it, then it's a submission.

Who the hell knows? I've been just totally puzzled over the last two weeks, just waiting for the shit to hit the fan.
 

The Cromwell

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It also could be true that more companies submitted PMTA applications than we expected, even if they had to just throw something together, if the FDA accepted it, then it's a submission.
For those types of applications the FDA has given them 90 days to get the applications into an acceptable format or they will be rejected.
At the end of 90 days the FDA will issue a list of accepted applications and the products they represent and I expect that that time the big hammer will begin falling repeatedly.

Last year the FDA got hundreds of those non acceptable applications and rejected 400 or so and only accepted maybe 15? And not all of those were vape related. Of course if a vape application was accepted about this time last year and not yet approved... Well the keep selling with an approved application thing is only good for 1 year from date of filing it...

And remember any application not in process for acceptance and filed after Sept 9 requires an APPROVED PMTA BEFORE selling product.

imho vape retailers are just selling till the hammer hits them.
 

wildgypsy70

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Well, seems to me like if a shop can pretend they don't know, then they'll do that.

Most of them seem like it's gonna be business as usual until someone MAKES them stop selling.

I have been waiting, and have talked with @wildgypsy70 about, an influx of people needing to know how to DIY, but so far it hasn't happened. People are buying juice somehow, some way. I think DIY or Die is having something of an increase in noobs, but nothing like I'd have expected to see.

It's almost like the shops who promoted advocacy (who "outed" themselves as KNOWING that a deadline was coming) are the ones that have folded, or at least have restricted entire product lines, like thezfo.com.

It also could be true that more companies submitted PMTA applications than we expected, even if they had to just throw something together, if the FDA accepted it, then it's a submission.

Who the hell knows? I've been just totally puzzled over the last two weeks, just waiting for the shit to hit the fan.
Agreed. I really thought the weeks leading to the PMTA deadline were gonna be gang busters. Nothing. No noobs. No questions. Nothing. It is a conundrum.

And stuff is still being sold left and right. I’m still getting emails from Element, 8 Vape, etc.....selling liquid and devices. I agree with Crom....they’re gonna sell until the hammer comes down.
 

The Cromwell

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As to the no noobs I suspect that most vapers in the US are still very clueless about what is coming.
We on vape boards have always been in the extreme minority of vaper as with DIY types.

Most deal with vape shops and most vape shops have made ZERO effort to educate their customers.
Those of us who order online are also in the minority.

some state bans and juul banning flavors got some attention but aside from that....
 

The Cromwell

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Another point...
Thru my grandson who vaped for a while I met several of his friends and discussed vaping with them.
When asked about ordering online I just got blank looks and when discussing vape reviewers all they knew was dry Knuckles Super Bloke..
And to them me making my own juice was very strange and they wondered if I was poisoning myself...
These were 18- mid 20's...

That was in the big city an hours drive away and a university town as well. Where I live out in the sticks aka rednecksville I seriously doubt that there are 5 vapers within 5 miles of me... I know of none and rarely see one in the wild in the town/county seat when there.
Just puff on their cigs and tell me that vaping will kill me, worse than smoking, etc. 2 of the neighborhood locals have died of smoking related problems since I started vaping... I tried to get them to switch... but finally one day I just gave up.
I just keep on vaping.

I guess vaping helps me keep up my image of being strange :D
For which I am grateful for I sure do not want to change and blend in...
heck I do not even own anything camo pattern....
 
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eSMOKA

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And to them me making my own juice was very strange and they wondered if I was poisoning myself...
These were 18- mid 20's...

That's not surprising, dude. Today's breed of Westerners are bred to think if it doesn't come from a factory it's probably bad for you or not worth having/using. And why make anything if you can just buy it.

This is what you call "slaved to the system".
 

eSMOKA

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I tried to get them to switch... but finally one day I just gave up.

I stopped trying to convert people, too. Vaping is something you have to want to do and you have to be willing to treat it like a journey rather than a destination. I find that the vast majority of smokers are not the type of person to switch to vaping successfully.
 

Synphul

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I really have no idea, I have no real interaction with vapers in real life. Either vapers, vape shops, none of it. Far as I know the neighbor's gf who lives out of state and shows up once in a great while switched to vaping, I helped her out some with where to find some deals. I think she buys most of her stuff locally to her. The neighbor across the way and their son (early 20's now) have vaped on and off but keep going back to smokes. They treat vaping like complicated do-hickey smoking of the future or something.

In my 4.5yrs of vaping it's all been online. This forum's helped a great deal, I was totally on my own. But I'm the sort of person who digs for info, whether it's repairing stuff, carpentry, auto, electrical, computers. I'll watch 8 reviews on something and dig through another 20 articles or whatever before I purchase. An ex of mine on the other hand just a couple years younger than I am, she couldn't understand how patient (or obsessed) I was hunting info down. She'd get bored after 5-10min tops and be like screw it I don't need it or the purple one looks cool.

So many people seem not to care even enough to compare two products by their box specs. And the younger crowds from what I've noticed blow through money. Even those with min wage jobs will be like cool a burger. Doesn't matter if it's $5 or $15. It's only money. They either have it or don't. No real concept of value or budgeting. Like if you have $100 to your name maybe skip the $15 burger for the $2 burger until money's better. They just want easy and with that mindset I don't think they care to know how to make their own juice. They often don't cook their own meals, they just can't be assed with it. Even to know for critical times like having to be self reliant. If full serve gas goes down they're fucked. And they don't care.

Just don't think they care to know how to build coils or make juice, they'll find someplace or some way to get it easier no matter the cost. On social media vape groups I've noticed a rise in people being new mixers or builders. Not like you'd think but I wonder how many vapers know a damn thing other than it don't work or a light flashed, plug it in. I get used to people being more educated and on top of stuff because of the forums and groups I'm in, forget that's such a small minority compared to the masses. Who all they hear are antz ads and crap.

And while I love vaping and am willing to put in the work, lots of people aren't. Even 'easy' kits, pods and things, compared to smoking it's a pain in the ass. That's how the lazy generation feel about it. It's the difference between picking up a $5 cup of coffee from a drive thru vs omg, having to get a maker and put a pod in it and wait for it. And that's the equivalent to pod vapes, switching coils, adding juice, recharging. To many it's like nope, too much. My dad's like that, it's too high tech for him. Much less the concept of getting coffee beans, grinding them, cleaning a reusable basket, brewing your own cup. People these days if they can't tell Alexa to do it, fuck it.

The number of vapers vs non vapers is already pretty small. Whittle it down to those who bother reading forums, articles, research, educating themselves and it becomes what, like all 30 of us here on the forum? lol. I mean I joke, but seriously it's a small disproportionate amount of an already small minority. That's paying attention, on top of the pmta's and such. Sad but it's the reality of it. I'm sure many shops don't know what's going on. They just saw this new vape thing is selling so let's do that. Let's carry that if we can flip it for a buck. Also doesn't shock me vape shop employees might know jack. I've been to plenty of places, home building centers, electronics stores where employees knew fuck all. Trying to read the side of the box (hell I can do that). Pc repair shops googling the issue. My latest venture to the auto parts store, it's not a repair shop I get it. But they offer battery charging system tests. First guy couldn't figure it out. 10min later here comes the store manager, he's gonna get it fixed. Oh umm.. yea umm.. well see cause it's a side post battery.. you umm.. have to like trick the machine.. uhh.. What the fuck does that have to do with it? Clueless. In the end wasted over 30min and they printed it out. A blank 'charging system' report came out like an empty receipt and they were both like 'dude, bummer'. It's like living in Idiocracy. "Wheres your taTOO, how come you have no taTOO?!". People think toilet paper sold out like mad during the pandemic, I could've made a small fortune selling them 'instructions' to go with it.
 

MyMagicMist

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For this reason any advice on going around FDA rulz please use PM's
We do not want to give the FDA our good secrets.

Alright. I'll still give out our bad secrets though. The one about how to vape Tide pods is always well received.

Even those with min wage jobs will be like cool a burger. Doesn't matter if it's $5 or $15. It's only money. They either have it or don't. No real concept of value or budgeting. Like if you have $100 to your name maybe skip the $15 burger for the $2 burger until money's better. They just want easy and with that mindset I don't think they care to know how to make their own juice. They often don't cook their own meals, they just can't be assed with it. Even to know for critical times like having to be self reliant.

Me & wife have agreed we don't worry about money. Our not worrying about though comes from a different angle. We've lived below, or in poverty all our lives. We see the reality of money. For ourselves that reality is why worry over what we don't have? Then, why worry if we get it because it leaves so quickly we may as well not have it.

That aside though we did live on our own for about a decade. Her grandfather helped out us out some, yes, but he always got it back either directly, or taking a pound of my flesh. I would help him timbering, building structures, running fence, any number of odd jobs he needed done. My labor for him helped pay back what we owed. He knew we did our best to not ask for help.

One year we had a week without power. Me and him put our noggins together and pulled all the refrigerated and frozen goods out. We used waste board boxes to store stuff outside. It was cold enough to keep it all good. This meant we didn't need to run a generator but maybe two to four hours a day. We did that to keep the basics going alright. Otherwise me and wife did without power and were fine.

Agree though, this younger crowd coming on really lack any sense of that. And the elders to teach them have died off. Reckon now we need to be the teachers, sadly there's many what choose to not learn.

People these days if they can't tell Alexa to do it, fuck it.

Exactly, technology has made some get dumber while making others more self reliant. You need to go check sources on stuff, find information, be an informed consumer or user of X. It is an interesting schism to see happening.

People think toilet paper sold out like mad during the pandemic, I could've made a small fortune selling them 'instructions' to go with it.

*chuckles* Probably so.
 

The Cromwell

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I know taking a draw off a mod and RDA takes me quite a bit to plan. I stay busy figuring out how to do it all day. :p :D :)
Yep it requires battery (charged), juice applied every few draws if dripping refill tank if squonk. Clean replace coil wick. And make sure everything is always in supply and handy.
A bit of cursing if mech and contacts not working right (cleaning).
Put in pocket, bend over hear hissing and feel warmth in pocket. Crap did not lock the mod!
Now rewick, etc... extinguish pants if too noisy around to hear atty hissing.

vs pulling a cig out of a pack (which does not leak juice in yer pocket), lighting it, inhaling it and tossing the butt.

You can also hold a cig in yer mouth and smoke it while doing other stuff with your hands...
 
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The Cromwell

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And if you vape and have a smart phone you do not have any free hands...
Hard to hold little jimmy's hand to keep him from running into the street.

Yep vaping if LOTS more trouble than smoking but I like it.
Also do not have a smart phone so have at least one hand free :)

WAIT! How does one text and vape?
 

MyMagicMist

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Yep it requires battery (charged), juice applied every few draws if dripping refill tank if squonk. Clean replace coil wick. And make sure everything is always in supply and handy.
A bit of cursing if mech and contacts not working right (cleaning).
Put in pocket, bend over hear hissing and feel warmth in pocket. Crap did not lock the mod!
Now rewick, etc... extinguish pants if too noisy around to hear atty hissing.

All of this becomes second nature. Besides a good portion of it happens well before you simply take a draw, or should. My point is it takes a lot of planning to have the urge to draw, push a fire button, draw.

Reckon I ought to explain sarcasm. In which case think I'll go to being reticent, as those whom I feel ought to understand obviously do not. This means I can hold no confidence in communicating with them.

That also implies doubting my capacity to gauge friends. May as well be silent at that point. If that cuts off a nose to spite a face, so what at this point? It's a free area of communication. I'm not out anything nor is anyone else. I, or they may find other venues.

For what is worth, I do understand your humor. I see other aspects going on though. Apologies I cannot ignore those aspects. This isn't the first time such aspects have come to bear.

I know that it's not all founded upon my interpretation of these aspects. Could see that a possibility one or two times, this goes well beyond that. It continues happening no matter my re-framing of what is perceived, so no, it's not all on me.

Ergo, ...
 
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eSMOKA

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You can also hold a cig in yer mouth and smoke it

I'm addicted to that. But it's sporadic. The yearning comes on, then goes away for a while. That's why I stocked up on certain small clearomizers and small automatic batteries.

When I get the craving, I put an Aspire Mini Vivi Nova using a Hippovape VSS V1 RBA with a 1.8 ohm coil on top of an automatic 510 cigalike. It's a very satisfying 6-7 watt, hands-free vape that I can comfortably hold in my teeth. I can't explain it, even though it's only 6-7 watts, it packs a punch that I never got from 2014 clearomizer vaping.



I sometimes use a 650mAh automatic eGo with the same results, but those batts are much harder to find than cigalike batts. Plus, it's a little heavier...but I can still hold it in my teeth. I use this setup for when I want something fatter to better simulate a cigar rather than a cigarette.

 

The Cromwell

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ooooo, I don't know about that. The taste of a burnt cig filter is much worse than a dry hit to me. Now burnt Japanese OC, maybe. But I can stand a dry hit here and there.
for me a cig burned the wrong ways tastes bad but does not send me into a coughing fit.
I switched to vaping with 810 cigalikes. for me still to heavy to comfortably hold in mouth while doing stuff.
 

PaulS

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That's not surprising, dude. Today's breed of Westerners are bred to think if it doesn't come from a factory it's probably bad for you or not worth having/using. And why make anything if you can just buy it.
Which is why pods are taking over.

First mechs and RDAs were super popular. Then it was cool to have billets. Then everyone wanted to squonk. Then MTL RTAs started to rule. All of these devixces have been around awhile popularity among vapers runs in cycles. Now all the noobs want convenience. No more building - I used to love a REo with a small RTA stuffed with rayon. Still use one on occasion. Provari is gone, dicode chips confuse people new to the community. DNA came out with replay to simplify TC.

Don't get me wrong. I use a pod when I walk the dog. I'll use a pod when I go out to the store, etc. But when I see reviews telling me the flavor is as good as the best RTA or RDA - well, seriously?

Sry - venting. I'm not in the US but the laws here are getting a bit crazy too. I'm stocked up. See some of my posts. I have mods, attys and am fully capable of making juice (have needed to in awhile but ... ).

Back on topic - yepper lots of noobs about. Vaping is getting mainstream - becoming cool. I'm sure there are spies but equally sure most noobs are for real and we need to lead them not put them down.
 

eSMOKA

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There was also the 808 thread...

Yes, there was. That was my first vape, KR-808D-1. Same as today's 510 cigalikes with with an 808 thread. There was also 808D-2, RN4081, RN4027, 901, DSE103, 401, L88B and who knows how many others lol
 

The Cromwell

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After the 808's I moved up to this. Stubby Ego's with 808 threads and little 808 clearos.

SAM_0075.JPG
 

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