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Low resistance + Low Wattage

FlavorOverClouds

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I’m getting ready to start recoiling some RDAs and have questions around Watts law and the impact on vaping experience. I see that coils with lower resistance are generally recommended for vaping at higher wattage. What are the advantages and/or disadvantages of vaping at low wattage (40W) using low resistance coils. Seems like the battery would last longer. Does it affect flavor at all?
 

5150sick

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The disadvantage would be less vapor production.
it all depends on how you vape.
Some people crank it all the way up and only take a second long puff, some take a much longer puff at lower wattage.
I like around 0.25ohms at 70 to 75 watts.
If you want the battery to last longer try a higher resistance.
A Crown tank at 0.5ohms vapes good at 40 watts.

How low is the resistance of the coils?
 

FlavorOverClouds

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I have some various Claptons rated at .3ohms and planning to put them on a single coil RDA. I want to use these for flavor reviews and not aiming for cloud production. I know some flavors seem to pop at different wattages and I will probably test them from 30 - 80W.

Now that I think about it, I might set one RDA as a dual coil and test them at 100W+.

This is still new to me, but I tend to get pretty anal about this kind of stuff. I’ll probably end up keeping a spreadsheet with my results.
 

Syythe

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Resistance doesn't determine how much power is needed for a certain coil, on a regulated mod, as you probably already know. But one issue with under powering a coil is that it boils the juice instead of vaporizing it. That can kill a coil much faster, and you will get a lot of gunk built up very quickly, which both effect flavor. Some flavors from the juice won't come through if it doesn't have enough heat to properly vaporize, so it is pretty important to keep the power high enough to avoid that issue especially if you are reviewing a flavor. If your coil isn't tiny, you will typically have a good 30-50w range where it will vaporize properly to play around with to find the best flavor for a given juice.
 

Carambrda

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There's a certain combination of tipping points involved. Power (watts) is unit energy (joules) per unit time (seconds). In our case power is also the rate at which electric energy coming from the battery (watt-hours) is turned to an equal amount of heat energy so, on a regulated mod, the resistance of the coils doesn't have any impact aside from having a, generally moderate, impact on the efficiency of the mod in question, i.e. how much of the power just goes to waste whilst the mod fires. That is, as long the resistance is still within the range that complies with the hardware limitations of the regulated mod.

But heat is not the same as temperature. To raise the temperature by one degree, Kanthal wire, if using the same exact thickness and length, requires more heat than stainless steel wire does, for example, which means the latter choice of metal type ramps up faster (and also cools down faster). Nichrome 80 wire is a little bit faster still, on a regulated mod, watt for watt, and given the same wire thickness & length─and same number of wire strands, if they are multiple of course.

The rate at which heat is transferred from the coil into the juice is part determined by the total surface area of the coil, due to the juice coming in contact with the coil's surface. And is part determined also, by both the temperature of the coil's surface and the temperature of the juice.

But, as the part of the juice that fizzes vigorously on top the the coil's surface when it boils is turned to vapor, it, too, dissipates a lot of its own heat energy to both 1/ the surrounding air, or airflow and 2/ the actual evaporation process itself. A freezer works by evaporating a liquid substance and accelerating the evaporation process. Where this can get a bit confusing is after you also take into account the fact that increased air speed of air moving stably across the liquid surface is what causes increased rate of evaporation, which, in turn, causes increased rate of heat dissipation, i.e., rate of heat moving from the liquid surface to the surrounding airflow/vapor. Increased surface area of the liquid's surface also does the same, which is fairly obvious. Less obvious is that what happens to the temperature during a pull is the combination of all of these factors that are playing together. With faster evaporation comes faster-flowing juice out of the cotton wicks into the coils which is yet another thing that can also have a major impact on all of the above described physical phenomenae.

That being said, the higher you go up in wattage, the easier it generally becomes to burn stuff up and burn your mouth, BUT... there are certain things that we can do to avoid having to turn the wattage down and still be able to get the kind of vape experience that does NOT feel like sticking a heat gun in our mouth (or like inhaling rocket engine exhaust from Elon Musk's latest experiment, if you mean what I get:blah:). It's all rather multifactorial like I said, and, a lot can be achieved by experimenting with various different airflow characteristics and atomizer choices, coil choices, positioning of the coils when using a rebuildable atomizer,... the list goes on. Given the type of vape hardware that can be used for fine tuning some or most of the variables, it is possible to modify both the flavor and how the vape feels like, an infinite number of different ways. Once you hit that sweet spot, the vape can in fact turn out to be so significantly improved in pure terms of how it redefines your own comfort zones, preferences, and priorities, that you might start to think of it as a whole new hobby to maybe want to pursue. Which some of us do.
 
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Just Frank

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The resistance is whatever it ends up being. You want to power the coil or coils efficiently. The amount of power needed has to do with how much metal you're using.

There's can be low ohm builds that don't need much power. There can also be high ohm coils that need lots of power. Using Kanthal will keep your reading higher than using something like N80 or SS. When Jai Haze says something like "I like using high ohm builds" what he really should be saying is: I only use thin gauge Kanthal and like to use a lot of wraps. Using SS or N80 (same build/wraps, ID) will immediately lower the resistance reading. Using a wrap or two less drops it even further.


Check out Steam Engine's site and play with the wire calcs. Watch how the numbers change when you adjust the values of things. There's a really popular misconception. Low ohm builds need more power and higher ohm builds need less power. That isn't true. There's lots of ways to manipulate your resistance reading. You can come up with lots of different builds in the same Ω range that require different amounts of power to heat optimally.
 

SkoldVape

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I say just vape at whatever wattage you want. I have a 0.23 build in my Zeus X at the moment and I'm only at 40 watts. I don't think you should vape at 100 watts just cos it's a low ohm build. I'm vaping at this wattage cos I don't like a warm vape. Personal preference, wouldn't think bout it to much with a regulated mod :)
 

MyMagicMist

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... I'm vaping at this wattage cos I don't like a warm vape. Personal preference, ...

This is where I am with using coils rated down to 0.25 or lower. Don't care for a warm vape. Reminds me drawing a cigarette right down to a nub. Why I stay in the 0.30 to 0.50 range with my coils. This range works out well for me on a regulated, or mechanical device. I know what I'm doing for myself & think that's about all that matters. :)

Oh yeah, @Just Frank & @5150sick are both correct on how you get there having all kinds of ways to get there. Yes, the metal matters as does the mass.
 

SkoldVape

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This is where I am with using coils rated down to 0.25 or lower. Don't care for a warm vape. Reminds me drawing a cigarette right down to a nub. Why I stay in the 0.30 to 0.50 range with my coils. This range works out well for me on a regulated, or mechanical device. I know what I'm doing for myself & think that's about all that matters. :)

Oh yeah, @Just Frank & @5150sick are both correct on how you get there having all kinds of ways to get there. Yes, the metal matters as does the mass.
I hear ya there. Recently I've been doing 0.5/0.6 builds and am only at like 28 watts :)
 

MyMagicMist

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I've always thought about mechs to be fair :D got all the knowledge but never got round to getting one!

Well at present it seems I'm on a bent to using the Geekvape Athena squonker. They did run $50 - $60. @nadalama found one on sale for $30 or less once, think she did use one or still does. Anyway, I wound up with one and am quite grateful to her for sending it. :) When I saw them at $15, had to grab two new ones. They're well built & once you figure out the firing plate to clean it, they're right smart.
 

nadalama

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Well at present it seems I'm on a bent to using the Geekvape Athena squonker. They did run $50 - $60. @nadalama found one on sale for $30 or less once, think she did use one or still does. Anyway, I wound up with one and am quite grateful to her for sending it. :) When I saw them at $15, had to grab two new ones. They're well built & once you figure out the firing plate to clean it, they're right smart.

Yes, as a matter of fact, I've been vaping one a good bit of the day today. And I would definitely buy another one if the price was right.
 

MyMagicMist

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Yes, as a matter of fact, I've been vaping one a good bit of the day today. And I would definitely buy another one if the price was right.

Sorry they're out of stock at VapeSourcing. It wasn't me this time, I promise. This is the first I mentioned them, directly. I learned about that with the Gorge RDA. "Don't give up the secret goodies so easy. Keep yer gob shut." ;)
 

MyMagicMist

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I have an asmodus lunar on the way :D

Lucky dawg! "How dare you arrogantly display your Fu Gunk?" *chuckles*

ETA: Ah, neato! Found one running about $50. Might need to tell my boss Lady I need her to use the Card to fetch me one. Red Stab Wood, even. Mmm, looking sharp. Bah, now the inner debate.:facepalm: "Must not give in to Shinyitis." Ah but good, it's "Out of Stock".

Ha! I see how you are, a tease. Hmph. *chuckling*
 
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SkoldVape

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Lucky dawg! "How dare you arrogantly display your Fu Gunk?" *chuckles*

ETA: Ah, neato! Found one running about $50. Might need to tell my boss Lady I need her to use the Card to fetch me one. Red Stab Wood, even. Mmm, looking sharp. Bah, now the inner debate.:facepalm: "Must not give in to Shinyitis." Ah but good, it's "Out of Stock".

Ha! I see how you are, a tease. Hmph. *chuckling*
I only got it cos was cheap on eBay. I can't afford asmodus mods ahaha. I've been eyeing that geekvape Athena you keep raving about though ;) that's actually in my price range
 

MyMagicMist

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I've been eyeing that geekvape Athena you keep raving about though ;) that's actually in my price range

Muhashahaha!!! I shall now go buy all of them up. ;) :D

Yeah, think I will build on that Athena RDA here in just a few. Need a head call & some breakfast/coffee. Figure I'll try some SS Clapton 24g*2 w/ 34g wrap. Give it a go just because I got some pre-made spooled Clapton on hand. Could try a plain but just for giggles, eh.
 

SkoldVape

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Muhashahaha!!! I shall now go buy all of them up. ;) :D

Yeah, think I will build on that Athena RDA here in just a few. Need a head call & some breakfast/coffee. Figure I'll try some SS Clapton 24g*2 w/ 34g wrap. Give it a go just because I got some pre-made spooled Clapton on hand. Could try a plain but just for giggles, eh.
Good look was last one muahaha. It's not listed now ;)

And that's cool. I mainly use plain ol round wire too but I do have some micro Fused Clapton's 0.5 ohms that work okay in my single coil RTA's. I'm using the Savor RTA with DL insert now though and does better with round wire builds. Vaping at a whopping 25 watts ahaha
 

MyMagicMist

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Good look was last one muahaha. It's not listed now ;)

And that's cool. I mainly use plain ol round wire too but I do have some micro Fused Clapton's 0.5 ohms that work okay in my single coil RTA's. I'm using the Savor RTA with DL insert now though and does better with round wire builds. Vaping at a whopping 25 watts ahaha

SITREP: Sun 24 Jan 2021 08:19:56 AM EST

Tried the Clapton. Did not like it as 10 wraps to get 0.40 took too long to ramp up. Too much mass being all I can think is the cause.

Tried a single 26 awg at 3 wraps to get 0.40. Well, if I hit it for about two seconds it's okay. Any longer and yes I get a fireball up the chimney. *chuckles* It does not burn the wick but it burns the juice "evaporate" as it comes up.

"Well lookie here! Did he just say it burns your vapor?"

"Why yes, yes, I do believe he did."

Figure too little mass causes the opposite to occur. It ramps up super quick ergo you only need to fire two seconds. I like a longer draw time and don't want to burn up juice like that either.

Will "play" with it more later. May break down and use dual round wire at 6 wraps each coil. That'll still get me my 0.40. I'm using that as a half way betwixt 0.30 - 0.50. That's my "sweet spot" range. :) Now, if you like lower rated builds and know all the secrets to getting a cool one, go for it.

The RDA doesn't suffer. It is solid and good. What I've done is just basic "lemme try this" user trail and error. *chuckles* Had some idea where I was going. Still do just not ready to pull a second build out and try a third. :)
 

SkoldVape

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SITREP: Sun 24 Jan 2021 08:19:56 AM EST

Tried the Clapton. Did not like it as 10 wraps to get 0.40 took too long to ramp up. Too much mass being all I can think is the cause.

Tried a single 26 awg at 3 wraps to get 0.40. Well, if I hit it for about two seconds it's okay. Any longer and yes I get a fireball up the chimney. *chuckles* It does not burn the wick but it burns the juice "evaporate" as it comes up.

Figure too little mass causes the opposite to occur. It ramps up super quick ergo you only need to fire two seconds. I like a longer draw time and don't want to burn up juice like that either.

Will "play" with it more later. May break down and use dual round wire at 6 wraps each coil. That'll still get me my 0.40. I'm using that as a half way betwixt 0.30 - 0.50. That's my "sweet spot" range. :) Now, if you like lower rated builds and know all the secrets to getting a cool one, go for it.

The RDA doesn't suffer. It is solid and good. What I've done is just basic "lemme try this" user trail and error. *chuckles* Had some idea where I was going. Still do just not ready to pull a second build out and try a third. :)
In my Zeus X I do dual 5 wrap 26g. Could try that :) that's actually my only dual coil after selling or getting rid of rest but I've used it in a lot of dual coils. I've tried 22g or 24g an it dunt give me the resistance I'm after. But this micro Clapton is working well in the Savor. The round wire tasted like burnt socks for some reason haha
 

SkoldVape

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Ha! "Look at the fire EATING dragon!" *LOL*
Lmao you do make me laugh. We have sarcasm in common haha. Bit yeah 5 wraps dual coil. I also found that single coils don't work well in dual coil. That's why I like my dedicated single coils like the Savor, kayfun v5 but I don't vape really high wattage. I like a restricted draw. I was trying out the pharoah mini finally haha but keeps leaking. I also don't have a massive rotation like some on here. I do have a few mods and attys but only ever use one daily setup which at the moment is a Savor RTA an voopoo drag but I do have a Kayfun v5 on the way :D
 

MyMagicMist

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I also found that single coils don't work well in dual coil. That's why I like my dedicated single coils like the Savor, kayfun v5 but I don't vape really high wattage. I like a restricted draw.

Be still my heart. Not tried a Kayfun but have used an RSST for a bit. You know my mod kit rotation now. I cannot really settle out of the few I got for a "favorite". To me yes it's a bit of hobby but ultimately they're things, you use things, love people. :)

Like a restricted DL draw myself. Though at times I like sucking air too. :) My main point is I'm using nicotine more safely than with cigarettes. I don't chase clouds or flavor. Sure, it's nice to plume a bit but that's just not "all that" for me either.

Then, I also do not understand "stealth vaping"? Um, c'mon you're going to vape or you're not. I don't care too much for high watt vaping either though. The 50 watts on the Topside Lite with the Gorge suits my high watt craving. Again though, I don't use it constantly.

Yeah, mechanical mods suit me with their average of 28 watts for a single cell 18650, or a big 20700 single cell. I always try to watch for "head space" too. That's leaving about 20% voltage on a battery so you don't "deep cycle" one. Can usually tell, "hm, not much vapor. Reckon battery swap time."

Bah, goofy me forgetting words.
 

SkoldVape

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Be still my heart. Not tried a Kayfun but have used an RSST for a bit. You know my mod kit rotation now. I cannot really settle out of the few I got for a "favorite". To me yes it's a bit of hobby but ultimately they're things, you use things, love people. :)

Like a restricted DL draw myself. Though at times I like sucking air too. :) My main point is I'm using nicotine more safely than with cigarettes. I don't chase clouds or flavor. Sure, it's nice to plume a bit but that's just not "all that" for me either.

Then, I also do not understand "stealth vaping"? Um, c'mon you're going to vape or you're not. I don't care too much for high watt vaping either though. The 50 watts on the Topside Lite with the Gorge suits my high watt craving. Again though, I don't use it constantly.

Yeah, mechanical mods suit me with their average of 28 watts for a single cell 18650, or a big 20700 single cell. I always try to watch for "head space" too. That's leaving about 20% voltage on a battery so you don't "deep cycle" one. Can usually tell, "hm, not much vapor. Reckon battery swap time."i

Bah, goofy me forgetting words.
That topside and gorge sounds like a good setup. The gorge dunt get the praise it deserves! The flavour is on par with high end RDA's. Sure the build quality won't match something like the goon but for the price it's great. I'd go as far as saying it's my favourite single coil RDA. May have to have a look for mine after :) but I'm not sure if I sold it :(
 

MyMagicMist

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That topside and gorge sounds like a good setup. The gorge dunt get the praise it deserves! The flavour is on par with high end RDA's. Sure the build quality won't match something like the goon but for the price it's great. I'd go as far as saying it's my favourite single coil RDA. May have to have a look for mine after :) but I'm not sure if I sold it :(

Well if you did sell it, forget finding one in stock nearly anywhere. Dumb me had to go and sing the praises of it. Very next day I tried finding more for sale. Yeah, that was and still is a joke. If they get them in they're gone as soon as. All because I opened my gob and said "hey these are great RDAs!"
 

SkoldVape

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Well if you did sell it, forget finding one in stock nearly anywhere. Dumb me had to go and sing the praises of it. Very next day I tried finding more for sale. Yeah, that was and still is a joke. If they get them in they're gone as soon as. All because I opened my gob and said "hey these are great RDAs!"
I'm in the UK otherwise I'd let you know a site with them in stock. I need to find one cos must of got rid of it :(
 

MyMagicMist

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I'm in the UK otherwise I'd let you know a site with them in stock. I need to find one cos must of got rid of it :(

Here is one w/ a US warehouse but also ships/sales to Canada. Gearbest seems to have 'em. Lucky8 got for $20 CAD. Italy seems to have them.

Uh huh, sure right when I'm calling for some austerity people start getting the bugger in. *shaking fist in air at no one*
 

nadalama

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The atomizer that surprised me the most with low res and low wattage has been the Haar RTA (mine is a clone). I have a 0.22 ohm single round stainless coil in it and I run it at 28W. It's very happy there, gives good flavor, a very respectable amount of vapor, and quick ramp-up time. It is quite a restricted DL (even with airflow wide open), but I like it.
 
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MyMagicMist

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The atomizer that surprised me the most with low res and low wattage has been the Haar RTA.
I have a 0.22 ohm single round stainless coil in it and I run it at 28W. It's very happy there, gives good flavor and a very respectable amount of vapor. It is quite a restricted DL, but I like it.

*nods, grinning* Uh huh. Been having a debate on that one. The biggest con in my case is it being a tank. Love that Mr. Todd designed it and his heart is right in it. Just that issue of being a tank, gah. If it were an RDA, well no doubt I'd be spending $20-$30 US for it.
 

nadalama

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*nods, grinning* Uh huh. Been having a debate on that one. The biggest con in my case is it being a tank. Love that Mr. Todd designed it and his heart is right in it. Just that issue of being a tank, gah. If it were an RDA, well no doubt I'd be spending $20-$30 US for it.

This is one piece that my conscience has bothered me about buying the clone. I'd much rather have invested in the authentic, because it's Todd's design. Just could not see the possibility of doing that before time ran out on us. I may still buy one if it's possible, come tax return time.
 

SkoldVape

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This is one piece that my conscience has bothered me about buying the clone. I'd much rather have invested in the authentic, because it's Todd's design. Just could not see the possibility of doing that before time ran out on us. I may still buy one if it's possible, come tax return time.
Which RTA are you on about?? Todd is hands down my favourite reviewer. He is the only reviewer who vapes on what I like. Restricted single coilers. You have my attention now :D
 

SkoldVape

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My main RTA for a while has been the Savor RTA but I wanted more of them and they are discontinued :(
 

nadalama

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Which RTA are you on about?? Todd is hands down my favourite reviewer. He is the only reviewer who vapes on what I like. Restricted single coilers. You have my attention now :D

This is a good clone of the Haar that Todd collaborated on. I can't remember right off WHO he collaborated with!

 

SkoldVape

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This is a good clone of the Haar that Todd collaborated on. I can't remember right off WHO he collaborated with!

Thank you I shall have a look :D
 

Carambrda

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The amount of power needed has to do with how much metal you're using.
That plus the total surface area of the coil plus the speed of air slamming right into the coil. Using more metal generally translates to getting a larger total surface area, but using wires that are both thinner and longer─or more numerous such that their combined lengths will be longer─translates to getting a larger total surface area also.

A lot of atomizers are designed such that putting the airflow holes wide open typically will result in less than half of the total amount of airflow slamming right into the coil. Which causes the coil to overheat if using high wattage so, people complain that it is too hot. You're not going to keep a cooking fire from burning up food by blowing more air onto the fridge that is standing next to it. For this same reason, coil placement is equally as paramount as airflow optimization. Especially if the total surface area of the coil is comparatively small, it may easily start scorching. That's just because the heat energy can not escape from the coil's surface fast enough if the total surface area is too small.

Another common mistake made by people who can't seem to figure out how high wattage vaping factually works, is this. Don't vape at 200W as if you're only vaping at 20W. Suck a bit of air through your atomizer FFS. And, choose an advanced coil type (e.g. aliens) the numerous tiny cavities and crevasses in which keep sucking juice out of the cotton wicks really very fast during your entire puff. (If you don't want to see blue smoke come out.)
 

MyMagicMist

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For this same reason, coil placement is equally as paramount as airflow optimization. Especially if the total surface area of the coil is comparatively small, it may easily start scorching. That's just because the heat energy can not escape from the coil's surface fast enough if the total surface area is too small.

Alright, let me try this. I read this and see a conflation of two different things.

First you're discussing placement of the coil. That to me infers you're talking about height of coil from the deck, nearness to center of deck and the like.

Secondly, you're discussing the surface area of the coil. To me that infers the mass, shape and size of the coil. (Apologies, tired I had to edit that so I, myself was clear. I thought I wrote one thing but wrote another. Knew what I meant but wouldn't expect you to know.)

I understand you're trying to express a clear point. The disconnecting for me comes when these two seem conflated. I know you are not confusing the two aspects. It seems that way to read it though. That confuses me then.

What does one have to do with the other? Does size of the coil mean it needs to be more near the deck center if bigger, smaller? If a coil is merely average size does positioning matter?

How are they related? I'm seeing portions of relation but it isn't exactly clear because of the seeming confusion.

Can you explain it based on only one of these aspects? If positioning matters more then can you explain why? Conversely if size matters more, explain why?

See? I'm trying to understand, I might if you can present it with more clarity. So, I ask questions to help you clarify if you can. This isn't me being confrontational. It's me wanting to understand.

Hopefully we can communicate. I hope so.
 
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Carambrda

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Alright, let me try this. I read this and see a conflation of two different things.

First you're discussing placement of the coil. That to me infers you're talking about height of coil from the deck, nearness to center of deck and the like.

Secondly, you're discussing the surface area of the coil. To me that infers the mass, shape and size of the coil. (Apologies, tired I had to edit that so I, myself was clear. I thought I wrote one thing but wrote another. Knew what I meant but wouldn't expect you to know.)

I understand you're trying to express a clear point. The disconnecting for me comes when these two seem conflated. I know you are not confusing the two aspects. It seems that way to read it though. That confuses me then.

What does one have to do with the other? Does size of the coil mean it needs to be more near the deck center if bigger, smaller? If a coil is merely average size does positioning matter?

How are they related? I'm seeing portions of relation but it isn't exactly clear because of the seeming confusion.

Can you explain it based on only one of these aspects? If positioning matters more then can you explain why? Conversely if size matters more, explain why?

See? I'm trying to understand, I might if you can present it with more clarity. So, I ask questions to help you clarify if you can. This isn't me being confrontational. It's me wanting to understand.

Hopefully we can communicate. I hope so.
The incoming jet of air continues to be slowed down while it gets spread out to some noticeable extent as it continues to travel from the air hole toward the coil. So, the greater the distance between the coil and the air hole, 1/ the weaker the impact when airflow collides, and 2/ the larger the area that it can potentially collide with─or can potentially collide with in a direct manner. So then, there's the resulting relationship between that effect and the size of the coil, or how it can be taken also into account, as playing with the variables changes results in ways that are affected by it.

Sucking air out of the chamber creates a low pressure zone. The air that's on the outside of the atomizer can therefore be seen as a high, or higher, pressure zone. In a lot of cases, local variations in pressure that occur inside the chamber are comparatively subtle, and, they don't bend the trajectory of the jet of air excepting by only just a little bit.

Other cases it can happen that some non negligible restrictiveness goes on between the area below the (horizontally oriented) coil and the area above it and/or the jet of air is deflected downward due to it bouncing off of the bottom half of the coil to some extent, thus creating a bit higher pressure underneath to get uplifting effect not wholly dissimilar to the bottom airflow type. In which case the relative size and vertical height placement work differently together compared to a design where air passes more freely up from below. So there's another example of how both coil size and placement can optionally be used as various tweaks on airflow characteristics.

Using thick wires in coil building specifically for high wattage vaping, especially if it's Kanthal, tends to emanate so much heat that you'll get a toasty vape that can be so toasty in fact, it is more akin to sticking a heat gun into your mouth and/or it tastes burned if you don't let go of the fire button soon after it ramps up and/or you don't do at least something "out of the ordinary" such that you still manage to tame it... one way or another. Thinner wires lend themselves better IMO in the particular sense that the heat energy generated therein is, on average, located at a closer distance from the surface through which heat can escape from the metal, i.e. into the juice that surrounds them. As a result, heat buildup on the inside of the wires will be less significant thereby causing differences in heat buildup between different locations in the coil to be less significant also so, the temperature is balanced─via the juice-and-airflow combination that it reacts to─less restrictedly and more evenly IMO.

For reasons that should be obvious, the larger the total surface area, the more heat can escape from it. One way to increase the total surface area is to simply build a bigger coil, but doing that will also increase the amount of metal of course. That's why increasing the combined lengths of the wire strands while at the same time also decreasing their thickness is among popular choices for high wattage coil building.

Faster airflow and/or increased total surface area causes faster evaporation, which, in turn, causes faster dissipation of heat thus allowing coils to not overheat as a result from using higher power levels.

Finally, by increasing the number of tiny cavities and crevasses between the individual wire strands that make up, say, an alien coil build, it also is possible to achieve faster juice flow between the cotton wick and the exterior of the coil during evaporation such that faster evaporation resulting from using higher power levels does not cause certain parts of the coil's surface to be desaturated. Which tends to be critically important for high wattage a lot because keeping the cotton wick well saturated at all times does not guarantee that the actual coil itself will also remain well saturated for the entire duration of the puff.
 

MyMagicMist

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Faster airflow and/or increased total surface area causes faster evaporation, which, in turn, causes faster dissipation of heat thus allowing coils to not overheat as a result from using higher power levels.

How difficult was that to write out?

I can understand that as saying "more surface area speeds heat displacement". Have read/heard that elsewhere and could easily have understood it.

Instead of easily having wrote the above out, you chose to do otherwise. What you chose was an effort to humiliate, to cause someone to feel inferior.

What was to gain in that choice? I don't need you to reply to that as it seems obvious enough an answer exists.

What seems obvious to you is not always obvious to everyone.

I've faced the same with people. I don't make the choice to be condescending & confrontational with people though. Instead I see them as equals. They might see something I don't see as obvious.

Why not write plainly, easily? Why not communicate?

Why shut people down? Again I don't need an answer to that. I can fairly well guess with a bit of certainty.

Sorry your ego cannot handle equality. Will remember that from now on. People like you, I do not communicate with as it requires a fight instead. Not worth the effort.
 
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f1r3b1rd

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I’m getting ready to start recoiling some RDAs and have questions around Watts law and the impact on vaping experience. I see that coils with lower resistance are generally recommended for vaping at higher wattage. What are the advantages and/or disadvantages of vaping at low wattage (40W) using low resistance coils. Seems like the battery would last longer. Does it affect flavor at all?

my preferences have bounced around a bit over the years.
When I first started out all we were really using was regular round wire. I was using 28-30g in a single coil atty with a small chamber. A typical build was around 1.3-1.5 ohms on a regulated mod at 12w. On a mechanical we were scathed for building below 1 ohm. However; I had a dual coil rda with a drilled out airflow that would have a 0.7 ohm build in it.
- at the time that made me a rebellious cloud chaser.
As time went on and technology changed many of us were building down to a 0.2 dual coil with more airflow. The lower resistance would push more current from the battery; hence higher power. again this was still using regular round wire. 24g kanthal was the most popular thing to use at the time.
Flashing forward to more recent times; with the better battery tech and boards we have today. I’m either using a quad core Clapton with a 0.08 dual coil build in an airy atomizer for high power vaping, around 90-100 watts. Generally I only use those builds when I really need a nic fix. Typically I’m using a single quad core coil in an atomizer with a smaller chamber and less airflow, around 50-55 watts. Primarily I do that because I prefer the flavor of single coil tight atomizers; but, I also like that I can get all day on one battery. another point is the more vapor you make, the more liquid you’re going to use up. That’s just another reason I prefer the single coil life. I like keeping my juice consumption down to a reasonable level for many reasons: cost, health and convenience being chief among them. To head out for the day, I’m good with my squonk box with a full 8 ml bottle and fresh battery. I don’t need to bring anything else with me.

I won’t say that one method has an advantage over the other. It’s really all about what you prefer.In any case; upping the battery output will always deplete the life of the battery. It’s like a gallon jug of water: you can have not for a gallon of water in it. The more water you pour out, the faster it will empty.

I’ve heard it all in terms of flavor output. Back in the day, when we were all on mechs or 12w regulated mods; the argument was always made that more power equates to more flavor; due to the increased vapor production. I think we’ve hit a tipping point some time ago there; however. Even with a 200 watt pull from a triple coil atomizer; I don’t get any better able quality. What I do get are different flavor notes coming through, some may better flavor notes if that individual flavor is something preferential to the other notes; but, nothing of higher quality. It will definitely push much more vapor. Especially when you consider the higher airflow across the coil. the argument for the single coil users of today is that the chamber is tighter (smaller), the airflow is direct to the coil, so the vapor condenses a bit before it goes up through the drip tip giving you full flavor. Who’s more correct? I don’t know, I’m not a scientist, nor an expert. I’m just a long time vapor with a well refined flavor palet. My preference for all day every day is the single coil. That little single coil in a 22mm atomizer with a 510 drip tip gives me limited airflow, a nice direct lung hit and the chamber is tight enough to condense that vapor to give me full flavor. Edit to add: I do use a single coil 25mm tank a lot, but it’s a small chamber in a big tank to make it able to hold a fairly substantial volume of liquid.

keep in mind, that with vaping we have so many options these days that you can get whatever performance you want as the user. And that’s what it’s all about. You vape your way, and stay off the smokes and I’ll vape my way.
 
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MyMagicMist

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the argument for the single coil users of today is that the chamber is tighter (smaller), the airflow is direct to the coil, so the vapor condenses a bit before it goes up through the drip tip giving you full flavor. Who’s more correct? I don’t know, I’m not a scientist, nor an expert. I’m just a long time vapor with a well refined flavor palet. My preference for all day every day is the single coil. That little single coil in a 22mm atomizer with a 510 drip tip gives me limited airflow, a nice direct lung hit and the chamber is tight enough to condense that vapor to give me full flavor.

keep in mind, that with vaping we have so many options these days that you can get whatever performance you want as the user. And that’s what it’s all about. You vape your way, and stay off the smokes and I’ll vape my way.

Thank you. :) I also don't feel a need to in what I see as obvious, waste power, using a dozen batteries. A single coil, simple, a single cell battery and I can do fine. Yes, most of my RDAs are 22 mm diameter. Have some that are 24 mm, they do okay but I like 22 mm just fine. :)

Original-OUMIER-WASP-NANO-RDA-Big-Deck-Rebuildable-Tank-22mm-Diameter-Adjustable-Bottom-Airflow-NANO-RDA.jpg

Aren't they cute? *chuckles*
 
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f1r3b1rd

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Thank you. :) I also don't feel a need to in what I see as obvious, waste power, using a dozen batteries. A single coil, simple, a single cell battery and I can do fine. Yes, most of my RDAs are 22 mm diameter. Have some that are 24 mm, they do okay but I like 22 mm just fine. :)
No thanks required; again it’s all in personal preference.
I own probably 30 -35 rdas many are dual coil and 25 to 26mm but most are single coil and 22. The only 24 rda I have in regular rotation is the reload s; which is a single coil and condensed chamber. I do use a taifun and kayfun 5sq, both are 25mm; but also, they are single coil with a very small chamber. The size for the tanks is mainly so that they can carry the volume of juice they do. Kind of makes them a pain in the ass at times to make sure you have a mod they’ll fit well on.

all but one of my dual coil attys are in the drawer collecting dust. I keep a goon out for homework time with the kid. I need that extra nic hit to make sure I keep my sanity through that experience.
 

f1r3b1rd

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Thank you. :) I also don't feel a need to in what I see as obvious, waste power, using a dozen batteries. A single coil, simple, a single cell battery and I can do fine. Yes, most of my RDAs are 22 mm diameter. Have some that are 24 mm, they do okay but I like 22 mm just fine. :)

Original-OUMIER-WASP-NANO-RDA-Big-Deck-Rebuildable-Tank-22mm-Diameter-Adjustable-Bottom-Airflow-NANO-RDA.jpg

Aren't they cute? *chuckles*
Wasp is a nice one. I run a 26g parallel in mines. Lately though I’ve been bouncing between the hadaly, citadel and entheon for rdas. I keep an elder dragon on a mass mods squonker for out and about. I like the airflow on those guys, especially with a tighter borehole drip tip.
 

Carambrda

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How difficult was that to write out?

I can understand that as saying "more surface area speeds heat displacement". Have read/heard that elsewhere and could easily have understood it.

Instead of easily having wrote the above out, you chose to do otherwise. What you chose was an effort to humiliate, to cause someone to feel inferior.

What was to gain in that choice? I don't need you to reply to that as it seems obvious enough an answer exists.

What seems obvious to you is not always obvious to everyone.

I've faced the same with people. I don't make the choice to be condescending & confrontational with people though. Instead I see them as equals. They might see something I don't see as obvious.

Why not write plainly, easily? Why not communicate?

Why shut people down? Again I don't need an answer to that. I can fairly well guess with a bit of certainty.

Sorry your ego cannot handle equality. Will remember that from now on. People like you, I do not communicate with as it requires a fight instead. Not worth the effort.
The fact that it isn't always obvious to everyone is why I already did explain─right after the part you quoted.

What's condescending & confrontational is that you purposely 'missed' the fact that this is how I wrote it:
"That's just because the heat energy can not escape from the coil's surface fast enough if the total surface area is too small."
Do yourself a favor. Go to see a doctor.
 

MyMagicMist

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Do yourself a favor. Go to see a doctor.

I see several doctors thank you. Reckon you've the best of them as you seemingly know more than them. It's so damn obvious you're far better than they at reconciling cognitive dissonance. Really, I ought to send one or two to you to train up better.

I apologize for what you saying not registering until you said it differently. Sometimes I too need to say something differently so someone understands. For example do you know how difficult it is to explain you need scents related as colors, or textures? People often get confused about that.

"I smell by sight, or touch." Can really send someone into strange directions. "..."

"You reckon roses smell red?" Usually tends to get a pause but then, people can actually understand needing to describe the color of scent. "No, roses smell more blue. They're almost purple."

"Does blood smell oily?" Makes them consider how the description of smelling of copper, metallic might convey as a texture. "It smells like water, soft and wet like water."

Does it make me better or worse to not have a sense of smell?

It makes me neither, it only affords me being human the same as you, the same as @SkoldVape, @f1r3b1rd or any other human.

Do I get condescending, pissy, confrontational trying to explain a difference? I try diligently to not do so. Will admit I'm no saint and sometimes that negativity does come up. Most often though if I accept the challenge to communicate easily, it doesn't.

Because I need to engage then. I have to think different to explain a difference, differently. This keeps me learning. It keeps me living.

That's why I feel sorry you choose to put others down. In all your grandiose you don't see something so simple. Nobody wants to hurt you. Nobody cares if you make a mistake. We all bumble up from time to time. So what? We're human and that's naturally part of it.

Well, I hoped. I tried. I saw.
 
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MyMagicMist

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As an aside, I tried using the Athena RDA again as a single coil just now.

I twisted two strands of 26 awg SS316 L together. Wrapped that 10 times around a 3 mm inner diameter to get roughly 0.35 oHm rating. Wicked the coil just twisting up some cotton, new to me as I usually wick using Scottish roll.

Tried it full air open using the chuff cap drip tip. It was way too loose a draw & made me cough for the heat from it. Wound the air down to about half. The draw was a little better but still coughing.

The kit comes with a 510 drip tip adapter and 510 drip tip. Tried it with that at about half air. Still coughed from the heat. Went to 2/3 air and it was okay, not so much coughing.

Picked up another Athena mod sporting a 22 mm Wasp Nano with a plain old single strand 26 awg Kanthal coil rated at roughly 0.35 oHm. Hit it and no coughing at all, smooth even draw. On my Wasps I crank the air flow so it's roughly a 2 mm hole on either side.

My take away, while I cannot say fully that the Athena RDA is not meant to use single coil, can say if so it isn't in my case. Apparently I'm lacking "something" needed to get "there" from "here". Which is fine given there are other RDA that obviously work out for me. As I too keep saying, you do what suits yourself.

Reminded of a joke I expressed to a psychologist who had been doing his work thirty years. "Hey doctor, I figured out the sacred 'IT' that everyone says you need to find."

"Ah, now this I'll be interested in knowing too. You see, even I have been searching for the elusive 'IT'."

"Well doctor, stop looking. No such thing exists. It's the cosmic joke left to us all. The universe laughs as we bumble on trying to find something not there."

He looked sincerely dumbfounded for a minute. Then, he grinned. "You know, I had heard that when first starting out thirty years ago. An older psychologist tried explaining it to me. Never really got it until now. Thanks." He was sincere.

So yeah, reckon I lack "something". :) It's just not a sense of humor.
 

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