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My first Clapton.
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Bean8379
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It's really not that big of a deal to me though. I hear what you're saying, but its no big deal. If I'd wrapped this Clapton on a smaller pin, it would have less surface area and require less power to heat up. I might try again. For now I have a standard 0.83 ohm coil on it. My mod wasn't totally overheating, but some glue did start to melt in the circuit panel. It had a very long ramp up time, 3-4 seconds. Probably too much for just about any single battery mod. I didn't get a too hot warning, just a tiny amount of glue melted. To be honest, the flavor with the coil I have is not that bad. The Clapton might even have had too much flavor. My tongue is really irritated. I may try again on a smaller pin, I may not. For now I put a different build on and its OK. I do still like this mod. Maybe I will throw some Clapton's on a mech mod some time. Also maybe blowing into the atty while its ramping up may help keep it cooler, idk.
Right,
Those CLAPTONS are amp drainers, that's why, it's best to VAPE those coils on regulated devices. CLAPTONS on mech mods make sure u wear some gloves cuz it will get hot..
22g NICHROME and 32 NICHROME 5/6 wraps 2diameter on my sig 150 OG
Mods getting warm,not a good thing.. Be safe bro
VAPE ON
Those CLAPTONS are amp drainers, that's why, it's best to VAPE those coils on regulated devices. CLAPTONS on mech mods make sure u wear some gloves cuz it will get hot..
22g NICHROME and 32 NICHROME 5/6 wraps 2diameter on my sig 150 OG
Mods getting warm,not a good thing.. Be safe bro
VAPE ON
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Bean8379
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Good point about mech mods and heat, probably won't vape a Clapton on a mech now that I think about it. I saved the one I made after I took it off, made it less wraps but haven't put it back on yet because this coil I'm using is OK. What probably made it worse is I was trying every flavor I have on the Clapton, if I hadn't done that it might have been ok. I also wasn't putting enough power to it, it was killing my battery so I turned the watts down and that might have actually made things worse. But for now I'm sticking with the standard coil I just built. Got a few feet of rayon coming tomorrow, maybe that will improve flavor enough I won't even need a Clapton. A lot of people say rayon gives excellent flavor so we will see.
Bean8379
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I'm actually seeing much better vapor production with the standard coil. The Clapton was a little lower in resistance, but due to the surface area and ramp up time, it was taking me about 9 seconds per pull to get any decent vapor. Only taking 6 second pulls now and getting at least as much vapor if not a little more. Clapton's are great for flavor, but not really great on battery life or temperature wise for my mod. But I decided I had to try one out lol. I was at a local cloud comp a few nights ago and we were talking about Clapton's, and someone said they were easy to build. They said it can be done with a drill and just feed one strand of wire around the other. After thinking about it, I decided to try it but I messed up a few times and wasted some wire. Got one done, threw it on but for me right now the cons outweigh the pros.
Bean8379
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I haven't put the Clapton back in yet, but I removed the outer winding from the legs. I read somewhere that you can do this. If what I read was wrong, worst that will happen is ill get a shorted message and it won't fire. My thinking is that by removing the windings from the legs, the resistance will be that of the core wire and not that of the winding if that makes any sense. I also think it will heat up quicker by putting power directly to the core instead of the windings. This may help with the heat issue. Haven't tried it yet though.
I run claptons on a series mechanical mod pretty much exclusively now, but mine aren't getting too hot to chain vape... ...not even close really. And with 8v going to them, some of them are generating every bit of 140w of power. Not gonna lie, the vape on a dual 24/40g clapton running at 8 volts is hot by most people's standards, but my device doesn't heat up more than a .2 standard dual would on a single-battery mech.
It's probably hot because of the 26g outer wrap. Try 36g or smaller and see if that doesn't make a difference. The thing about thin wire is that it heats up really fast, but it doesn't retain it well. Both of these are what you want for your clapton. All of that mass you've got on your coil is nothing but a giant heat-sink. It probably takes a lot of power to heat up. And by the time it does, it stays hot because the heat has to disperse across all of that metal.
In theory, a well-matched clapton should actually run cooler than a solid coil of the same mass running at the same power level. More juice is making contact with the surfaces of the coil and a large portion of the coil's mass doesn't generate heat of its own - the outer wraps only disperse heat. With enough airflow carrying that heat away, it should run cool.
Which reminds me... ...another factor is going to be airflow. Claptons crave lots of airflow. I tend to run mine wide-open on my mutation x v4, troll, twisted messes... ..you get the point.
And on resistance, the outer wire makes little difference. Let's think for a moment about what the length of the outer wire is going to be. Depending on the the thickness it's going to be 15 to 20 FEET of wire to make something like 8 inches of clapton wire. The resistance of 26g kanthal is .29 ohms per INCH. 15 feet of that is going to be a staggering 52 ohms of resistance. Assuming you use even just 2 inches of that wire to wrap a coil, you're still gonna be looking at an outer wire with a resistance that's almost in the double digits.
Electrically, this essentially makes it non-active. When placed in a parallel circuit with the core wire, which is probably well under an ohm, all of the current is going to flow through the core wire. The outer wire in the post itself simply reduces connectivity a bit because the current has to jump across it to get the core. But at that point where the core and the outer wire meet, the current is going to follow the path of least resistance, every time. Rather than travel along the high-res outer wrap, it's going to jump into that super-low-res core as soon as it has the chance to.
It's probably hot because of the 26g outer wrap. Try 36g or smaller and see if that doesn't make a difference. The thing about thin wire is that it heats up really fast, but it doesn't retain it well. Both of these are what you want for your clapton. All of that mass you've got on your coil is nothing but a giant heat-sink. It probably takes a lot of power to heat up. And by the time it does, it stays hot because the heat has to disperse across all of that metal.
In theory, a well-matched clapton should actually run cooler than a solid coil of the same mass running at the same power level. More juice is making contact with the surfaces of the coil and a large portion of the coil's mass doesn't generate heat of its own - the outer wraps only disperse heat. With enough airflow carrying that heat away, it should run cool.
Which reminds me... ...another factor is going to be airflow. Claptons crave lots of airflow. I tend to run mine wide-open on my mutation x v4, troll, twisted messes... ..you get the point.
And on resistance, the outer wire makes little difference. Let's think for a moment about what the length of the outer wire is going to be. Depending on the the thickness it's going to be 15 to 20 FEET of wire to make something like 8 inches of clapton wire. The resistance of 26g kanthal is .29 ohms per INCH. 15 feet of that is going to be a staggering 52 ohms of resistance. Assuming you use even just 2 inches of that wire to wrap a coil, you're still gonna be looking at an outer wire with a resistance that's almost in the double digits.
Electrically, this essentially makes it non-active. When placed in a parallel circuit with the core wire, which is probably well under an ohm, all of the current is going to flow through the core wire. The outer wire in the post itself simply reduces connectivity a bit because the current has to jump across it to get the core. But at that point where the core and the outer wire meet, the current is going to follow the path of least resistance, every time. Rather than travel along the high-res outer wrap, it's going to jump into that super-low-res core as soon as it has the chance to.
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Yessah. Wismec/Jaybo Noisy Cricket. It's technically not even a box in the typical sense. It's a series hybrid mod with a SMPL-style button on top. All mechanical - no wiring, just points of contact. It's basically a SMPL with two batteries. It's roughly the size of those little 60w evics, but it definitely hits just a little harder than an evic...
Thing is practically made for claptons, man. Gotta have those self-wicking properties just to keep up with 8v!
Bean8379
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Great info @robot zombie. Thanks!
Real talk... ...I wouldn't recommend it to newbie vapers, but any experienced hybrid user would be stupid not to get one. It's a kickass little mech! It's a solid, absurdly-tiny, hard-hitting, flawless performer that you can find for $35 or less. DUH!
Yep yep, just some things I've noticed in my experiences with claptons to help get you on the path to wrapping better claptons.
I feel like a lot of people initially get discouraged by the performance they get from them compared to the work done to set them up. They're kind of tricky to wrap and they really don't perform well if you don't understand certain things about how they work. I picked them up at the beginning of the year and promptly put them down for similar reasons. 6 months later, I decided to give them due diligence and tried every combination of gauges, atties, and power levels under the sun.
And ever since I worked the kinks out and struck the right balance with them, I've been having a really hard time going back to standard coils. Claptons and all of the different variations rule the high-wattage vape game imo.
I agree, when u said u hit the clapton with a series mech box, first mod came to my mind was the cricket, and I was correct!!
Series mech mod/slash STACKING!! if you know what I mean
VAPE ON
Bean8379
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I'm following the KISS principle right now (keep it simple, stupid), but I might try Clapton's again sometime. My mod only goes up to 30w so its not like I have a whole lot to push out lol. Maybe I'll get something like an evic mini which pushes 60w and try with that, who knows. I liked the flavor I got with the Clapton, but I don't hate the flavor I'm getting with standard macros either. Rayon gives much better flavor than cotton IMHO so thats helping right now too. Actually to be honest, I have a peach flavor that is coming out very smooth on my macro with the rayon. And I'm running at the minimum power setting for my resistance, which is 16w @ 0.83ohms. It'll fire if I turn it down lower, but the ohms reading flashes as a warning that the power is too low. Rayon doesn't burn as easily as cotton either, at least from what I'm noticing.
I have been interested in finding some info on the theory behind specialty coil builds. Thanks. Any resources for further, more in depth, explanation of coil science?
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Hmm... ...I don't know if I'm the best person to ask about that stuff. There's some excellent writing out there that's very illuminating when it comes to the fundamentals, but I never got much out of that, myself (it never clicked until I figured it out on my own) so I'm not familiar with much that really breaks it all down at the entry level.
I've learned what I know by process of elimination - trial and error. You start seeing the patterns and conventions more clearly as you go along. Once you start doing new builds every day, you get into the habit of conceptualizing them before you even do them. You start asking yourself what tweaking such and such variable will change about the performance and thus start getting more deliberate. You set goals within limitations by asking yourself "How can I get x result without compromising y?" Doing so prompts you to think about the mechanics in more detail, just based on what you pick up as you go along. The results and the questions they make you ask are your best teachers. You just have to make it a point to put the limits of what you know to the test. Find problems to solve.
It helps to just see what builders are talking about. That has honestly been my most valued resource for learning about the nitty-gritty stuff. The people who are into specialty builds also tend to be the most prolific builders by nature. They're constantly thinking about and trying new builds. A lot of enlightening discussions are taking place around the internet. I picked up a lot of great little tidbits along the way from following and participating in them.
I learned a lot in a short time just lurking around on places like this forum, youtube videos, ecr and the other various coil-related reddits... ...basically just by following and joining in the idle conversations of people who were always experimenting and trying to unravel the mechanics behind their builds. Watch what they try and ask them specific questions about specific builds. Specialty builders love to talk about their builds and posit on the how's/why's of them.
It's not hard science, you know? It's more like cooking. If you hang out in a cook's kitchen for long enough, your understanding of cooking starts to improve in ways that a recipe book can't facilitate. "Building theory" is a loose term that I try not to toss around because I feel it is misleading in that it implies that there is a clear and concise way to conceive of a build. It's more of a craft than anything - as much an art as it is science. The people who are best at it have usually been at it for a long time. The physics behind it are simple and can be picked-up quickly, but in practice, only experience knows best.
Point is, it's not something that you can just read a bunch about and expect to really understand. You kind of have to start breaking it down mechanic by mechanic on your own - it's a personal quest. There are countless factors involved in how a coil performs. This applies uniformly to all coils, from the simplest standard singles to the most hyper-elaborate 10+ wire coils. There's really no definitive school of thought on advanced-level building.
If you're really interested in learning more about advanced builds, I think its best to start by experimenting regularly with the most simple builds you can think of... ...do it until you reach a point where you can think up a coil entirely in your head and be able to, with reasonable success, intuit exactly how and what will make it perform the way that it does. Once you reach a point in your practice where you can do that, I think you will find your grasp of more complex coils expanding more readily.
I don't know how helpful any of this will actually be to you, but what I'm trying to get across here is that the mindset of the people who come up with their own specialty builds is not bound by rules and principles, but rather by subjectivity. It's not like they pull off interesting ideas because they know the hard science behind it. Many will tell you that they simply know what they know. And they know what they know because they have made a habit of doing things just to see what happens. They have their own whims and tastes. And over time, they have gone to lengths that to the outside observer are extraordinarily elaborate, but in reality, are not all that founded in anything concrete. Their wisdom is not a bed of closely guarded secrets. There's not nearly as much to it as there seems to be, and yet there's so much more to it that can't easily be explained... ...oftentimes not even by the builders themselves.
Just practice and observe! It's really that simple. Though they are somewhat necessary in a very fundamental sense, better understanding the mechanics and constructs behind advanced building is not so much a matter of how much knowledge and skill you have as it is a simple endeavor in sustained inquiry. If you have any questions about specialized coils, why not ask your wire? Don't sweat the theory. Just build!
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Thanks for the great reply.
Trial and error has gotten me this far. But because the way my mind works, I always want to know "why?".
Whether or not we specifically consider it into our builds, the science is there at work with us. I think understanding it will only speed our progress.
I do appreciate the craft and all the creativity being demonstrated. Its awesome this is what I got after deciding to put down the smokes.
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Trial and error has gotten me this far. But because the way my mind works, I always want to know "why?".
Whether or not we specifically consider it into our builds, the science is there at work with us. I think understanding it will only speed our progress.
I do appreciate the craft and all the creativity being demonstrated. Its awesome this is what I got after deciding to put down the smokes.
Sent from my XT1528 using Tapatalk
That's very awesome, man! All of it. You're already well on your way and you've come to the right place to feed that drive for the edge of what is known about vaping.
All I'm trying to say is that the why's will come to you as you go along and continue asking the questions. I'm all about understanding the technical side of what we're doing. In fact, I often make it a point to break it all down for folks by way of exhaustive, long-form posts on these forums. For better or worse, it's become my MO for being here... ...I'm finding that I learn about as much as I teach here. It's a really great platform for jumping into the deep end.
I don't want to eschew a more concrete understanding of the endeavors we take on with our builds. I'm only meaning to imply that you'll know exactly what to research and when just by building frequently and taking the time to think it all through. Just along the course of doing your builds, you will learn about thermodynamics, fluid mechanics, macrophysics, chemistry, metallurgy, aerodynamics, electricity, and so much more.
With a better grasp of the craft comes a more fundamental and well-substantiated appreciation for the science behind the mechanics of coiling. Build fancy coils and you will learn the technical ins and outs of how they work.
I have come to understand and appreciate many branches of science that I never thought about before just by taking a similar journey to the one you're on now. Hell, I'm still on it and I've been at it for a several years! You talk about getting there faster, which is all well and good - I get that your mind is thirsty and I want to encourage you to let that propel your quest for learning. Never let that go. It's a critical component. But I'm telling you... ...it never ends, man! There is an overwhelming amount of scientific information to take in when it comes to the nitty-gritty side of vaping. No need to rush it. Just enjoy the ride.
Hang around here for a bit. Read, build, and discuss. You'll be a build engineer before you know it.
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