Need a little advice guys, percentages.

[Doc Roland]

So I started diy and have went crazy over how many flavors I've bought in about 3 weeks time. My flavors taste great but feels like something is just missing with each one. I'm about 95% sure they just need to steep. But I want to ask about flavor percentages, I'm at 15% right now so for a 30 ml bottle that's 4.5 ml flavor. My question is.. What's wrong with using too much flavor? What happens? Is it okay for me to go up to 20%? I need to know what the outcome of raising my percentage will be. I'm making mostly 40% PG 60% VG mixes if that helps at all. With 6 mg nic. Thanks in advanced. You guys are awesome.

 

[Huckleberried]

Less is usually more, depending on the brands you're using. Some are super concentrated, so they won't require nearly as much. With some, having too much flavor, it can completely mute the flavor, add a chemical taste, or just simply not be good. Sounds weird, I know, but the flavors will really come through at surprisingly low percentages.

Over time, I've even been able to reduce by quite a lot. Smoking will kill out taste, healing from that brings all flavor to life, not just vape flavors.

 

[Doc Roland]

Hmmm. I guess I'll have to try it. I get crazy with my mixes though. Like 6 or 7 ingredients. Should I lessen the amount of ingredients too?

 

[Ablonz]

@Doc Roland I have a recipe that uses 9 different flavors but only totaling to 11.5% flavoring. Having complex recipes actually gives you more sense of accomplishment in my eyes anyway. The most flavorings I have had in one juice is 11. Ended up tasting like fruit stripes bubblegum right after mixing. I have always used no more than 3% per flavor as taste is subjective. It is true though with flavorings, less can actually be more. Hope this helps.

 

[Huckleberried]

Hmmm. I guess I'll have to try it. I get crazy with my mixes though. Like 6 or 7 ingredients. Should I lessen the amount of ingredients too?

Nope. We have mixes posted in the Recipes area by members that have 11 flavors that are delicious. The total percentages don't go very high, even still. Mix to YOUR liking, regardless. Assortments of flavors are what make them taste so good!

 

[SteveS45]

Less is usually more, depending on the brands you're using. Some are super concentrated, so they won't require nearly as much. With some, having too much flavor, it can completely mute the flavor, add a chemical taste, or just simply not be good. Sounds weird, I know, but the flavors will really come through at surprisingly low percentages.

Over time, I've even been able to reduce by quite a lot. Smoking will kill out taste, healing from that brings all flavor to life, not just vape flavors.

Huck sounds like you stole my line.

 

[lirruping]

Bearing in mind what Huck said, my experience has been that it's fine to use multiple flavors--OH.. I see everyone has beat me to it Yes, go nuts! Just beware of muting that sometimes happens with a total percentage that is very high!

 

[SteveS45]

So I started diy and have went crazy over how many flavors I've bought in about 3 weeks time. My flavors taste great but feels like something is just missing with each one. I'm about 95% sure they just need to steep. But I want to ask about flavor percentages, I'm at 15% right now so for a 30 ml bottle that's 4.5 ml flavor. My question is.. What's wrong with using too much flavor? What happens? Is it okay for me to go up to 20%? I need to know what the outcome of raising my percentage will be. I'm making mostly 40% PG 60% VG mixes if that helps at all. With 6 mg nic. Thanks in advanced. You guys are awesome.

Doc I just used Green Apple today for a recipe the manufactures suggested percentage is 1% and this is what I started with now I use a mixer and the I heat my e-Liquid to around 135 Degrees for about a half an hour or so just until it is almost settled and clear, by mixing with a frothing mixer and the heating while it rests I speed up the time for aging or "steeping". I hate that word! I tried my new recipe and said maybe I will tweak it by using 1 drop in 2 MLs which you would not think was anything but the result was not good. Less is many times more. I look at it as why do you need 20% of the volume in flavorings? I am using Liquid Barn stuff right now and I think I will continue in the future.

Good Luck with your DIY Adventure!

 

[SteveS45]

The highest percentage I have used so far was 11%. When I use multiple flavors I try to estimate total percentage of flavor of ALL the flavors. if you use 2 that the suggested is 8% try 4% to 5% to start because when you mix it you smell it and see if maybe you want more at that point. In a recent post someone said the tasted the flavoring and almost puked! Think of 20% of your DIY e-Liquid being that flavoring? Seeing what I am trying to make you picture?

 

[SteveS45]

Here is an except from a manufactures site about flavorings.

Too much flavoring can overpower the liquid, and have the opposite effect of what you are trying to achieve (overwhelming your taste/olfactory senses, resulting in a muted flavor) or just an off or bad taste.

 

[Doc Roland]

You guys are fucking awesome. Thanks. I will definitely go lower on the percentages. I super appreciate it. And Steve I have heard of a ton of people using the frother but haven't tried it. I've been trying to use a hot bath for it because I mostly use cream fkavors and I don't want to wait 2 weeks! I've managed to start selling my juices though so that's a plus. Thanks again guys!

 

[Doc Roland]

Also sorry for my spelling and stuff. On hydros for pain and yeah... out of it.

 

[SteveS45]

I would be careful selling your e-Liquids because one person gets the shits and they can sue your ass. The money you make selling your e-Liquids will not pay the Lawyer for one hour! How many threads you see people blaming their illnesses on vaping?

 

[AndriaD]

All flavors are different, in the amount that can be used without the flavor going sideways -- Inawera Shisha Strawberry can be used in very high percentages without ill effect; my strawberry and cream is 30% flavor, 15.6% of which is that shisha strawberry, and it's great.

The guideline I've heard, and generally try to stick close to, because it usually works out well, is 50% main flavor, 50% supporting flavors -- creams, vanillas, sweetener. Very few flavors will be good without the supporting flavors. I generally try to keep my recipes above 20% flavor, and the fewest flavors I use in any recipe is 5 -- for that 30% strawberry and cream. Another that i do has about 10 diff flavors, though it comes out to about 25% flavor. Usually tobaccos can't be used at very high percentages without going wonky, and nearly always need a fairly long steep. I use upwards of 20% flavor in most of my recipes just so i can avoid that tedious steeping crap; if I'm gonna go to the trouble to mix something, I need to know right away if it's vapable, not wait around and then discover it's no good.

Andria

 

[SteveS45]

All these flavors that are raved about I always see these high percentages and even though I am just getting into DIY going to be a while before I switch vendors. I would rather have strong extracts then use 20% to 30%.

Just my opinion so please do not take it as a criticism since I can't criticize something I never used.

 

[lirruping]

I would be careful selling your e-Liquids because one person gets the shits and they can sue your ass. The money you make selling your e-Liquids will not pay the Lawyer for one hour! How many threads you see people blaming their illnesses on vaping?

I actually haven't seen any threads where people blame their illnesses on vaping--but then I have a pretty restricted sphere. For purposes of research and curiosity, could you refer me to some of those?

 

[SteveS45]

If you look through the forums you will see. One recent was a guy saying he gets more colds now. Blaming it on vaping. I do not have links or the energy to search just look through the recent posts and they will still out like a young guy with a woody on his first date!

 

[lirruping]

I guess I'll have to venture outside the DIY sections at some point.

 

[SteveS45]

Here is one

http://vapingunderground.com/threads/does-vaping-suppress-the-immune-system.220742/#post-1049219

 

[SteveS45]

Here is another

http://vapingunderground.com/threads/vaping-and-nerve-pain.221432/#post-1051414

 

[SteveS45]

 

[Doc Roland]

I find that hilarious because I'm a medic and they're so full of shit. But you do have a good point. I've thought of things like that. Thanks man.

 

[Heabob]

All these flavors that are raved about I always see these high percentages and even though I am just getting into DIY going to be a while before I switch vendors. I would rather have strong extracts then use 20% to 30%.

Just my opinion so please do not take it as a criticism since I can't criticize something I never used.

 

[SteveS45]

 

[pescadore]

When I first started DIY, I used high percentages and just never could get flavors right. Since I have cut my percentages (mostly in half) my juice is much better and I have made some really good recipes. I can definitely testify that for me less is more when it comes to flavorings.

 

[SteveS45]

One of the hardest thing I found to deal with was like when planning a dinner. What to make? So I started out simple and as I delve further into the DIY Experience I am slowly getting more complex and paying careful attention to the percentages. I feel if a flavor is suggested at 8% and you use more than one you need to lower that percentage so the tastes compliment each other instead of competing for dominance. The most important ingredient I use is KISS.

 

[Doc Roland]

Def gonna cut my percentages in half. Thanks guys. You got me pumped to jump back on it this weekend.

 

[Markw4mms]

Def gonna cut my percentages in half. Thanks guys. You got me pumped to jump back on it this weekend.

Let us all know how it works out for you.

 

[pescadore]

Def gonna cut my percentages in half. Thanks guys. You got me pumped to jump back on it this weekend.

Good Luck ... I hope all goes well for you and you have some delicious juice to show for it.

 

[SteveS45]

I like to try to think of the finished product and just how much flavor is added to the TOTAL VOLUME. Not an exact science so try mixing testing and tweaking. It is easier to add more flavor but you can't take it out. Sure you can add volume with base but then take the chance of a 30ML batch that is a Toilet candidate becoming a 60ML flush worthy batch.

Good Luck and happy mixing! Don't forget to print out your mixologist name tag sometimes it helps!

 

[Tumbleweed]

The viscosity you make your juices at will also affect flavor. I prefer at least 80% VG & do sometimes find in some recipes that I need up to 22-25% flavor, but that's not always the case. I know for sure that if I was mixing 50% VG that I would need less flavor, as PG carries more flavor. With the last 4-5 batches I've made now at 80% VG, only one recipe (Twinkies) needed that much. Most of mine are good at 14-16%.

 

[SteveS45]

I make primarily 70/30 or 80/20 myself. I did do a 60/40 recently but I have never gone over 11% total with my flavorings which are higher concentrations I guess. To each his own and all that matters is you find you sweet spot!

 

[Tumbleweed]

I make primarily 70/30 or 80/20 myself. I did do a 60/40 recently but I have never gone over 11% total with my flavorings which are higher concentrations I guess. To each his own and all that matters is you find you sweet spot!

If I was making 60/40 I probably would be at 10-12% myself. But with TFA, Capella & FW flavors I find I need higher percentages at thicker viscosities. I am waiting on a good sized order to arrive from FA & I'm told they are more concentrated.
I can't wait to find out.

 

[SteveS45]

I prefer a thicker e-Liquid myself and doing DIY allows me the freedom of expression so to speak. The 60/40 I did was an experiment with Sweet Pipe Tobacco and I mix it in my tank for the most part. I haven't actually found PG carrying flavor better from my limited DIY experience.

 

[Doc Roland]

Yeah that would make sense as to what my problem is since I stick around 60/40 or 50/50

 

[SteveS45]

I have found that the 60/40 goes fast when vaping it.

 

[SteveS45]

But whatever works for you!

 

[Doc Roland]

You ain't lying there steve. And I vape about 24/7 unless I'm working and then I'm taking 30 min smoke breaks. Juice goes fast.

 

[SteveS45]

 

[Tumbleweed]

I have found that the 60/40 goes fast when vaping it.

Me too, I notice higher PG also messes with my sinuses.

 

[SteveS45]

Me too, I notice higher PG also messes with my sinuses.

How does it mess with your sinuses?

 

[Doc Roland]

Could be if he exhales through his nose a lot. I'm one of those people that do that. Doesn't really cause me problems but if he were to exhale primarily through his nose it could dry up his sinus cavity more. And I would think with more pg than vg it would worsen it. Just a thought though. I just save lives not fix em.

 

[SteveS45]

Actually I asked because vaping a new recipe was making me have a runny nose but not sure if it was attributable to the vaping, the weather or seasonal allergies. Although I have gotten dry from vaping but smoking also gave me cotton mouth! LOL

 

[Doc Roland]

Well it'll Def give you cotton mouth. So the same with the nose. But it's allergy season so I'd say that's why.

 

[Tumbleweed]

PG will make my nose run & gives me sinus headaches.

 

[Tumbleweed]

In fact, in one of my recipes that uses all LA flavorings (high in PG) I noticed it right off. I like a thick, 80-max VG juice.

 

[Doc Roland]

Very interesting. I have a new question for you guys. Why does my tank have amazing flavor but my RDA doesnt. I've tried some 80/20 in the rda but also my 60/40 just to see if that was the issue.

 

[Tumbleweed]

Very interesting. I have a new question for you guys. Why does my tank have amazing flavor but my RDA doesnt. I've tried some 80/20 in the rda but also my 60/40 just to see if that was the issue.

Can't help you there as I'm not an RDA guy.
I use a Crown tank.

 

[SteveS45]

I know vaping does dehydrate you and I am a water junkie who normally drinks lots of water regularly. I drink anywhere from 6 to 8 bottles of water a day.

 

[Doc Roland]

Steve I'm the same way but then I drink like 8 beers at night so.... yeah. And tumbleweed, I also have a crown tank. I love it. Atomizers are 7 bucks for a 4 pack on ebay! Can't beat that.