Not liking all the new "." replacements for Hic's comments on old threads

[joeyboy]

So as I peruse old DIY threads looking for a certain thread of what FA fruit goes with what FA fruit listing, I see Hic has removed his tips in many DIY threads. The tips are recipe ideas for others who are trying to build a recipe.

I understand if you are selling a recipe on Mama J's that you would not want that on public view. If that information has been there to assist the OP and others, what is the harm?

I hope this site isn't turning in to the ECF. I read they had restrictions and would ban at the drop of a hat. Maybe VU doesn't ban but removing usable content that is not a patent or private is just as bad.

Think what would happen if all the relevant information was removed in the coil building section. A poster asks a question with the most helpful answer (s) as ".". I think people would stop using VU and move to a UK site.

Sure, there are many, many helpful people here that will always assist but if this trend continues from the "big dogs," what will be the final chapter?

Some know vastly more than others. Knowledge is power and should be shared. If you hold that knowledge and keep it to yourself who is really benefitting?

 

[BigNasty]

It was due to scumbag mother fucking thieves ripping his recipes off for profit and not giving credit to HIC for the creation.

 

[Zamazam]

Moderators are not removing the content.

 

[joeyboy]

It was due to scumbag mother fucking thieves ripping his recipes off for profit and not giving credit to HIC for the creation.

Then maybe the whole thread with any time he removed content should be deleted. The majority of these threads are people asking questions, others saying how they don't have that flavor or can I substitute this for that. Some good info in those, some not and some with people just being active. Active is good.

I think it will get real discouraging when and if Hic decides that he will never offer an opinion on a recipe due to someone stealing his idea. I already see where he has decreased his input. That's fine. It's a free world. There are others that will offer.

Many people look up to him for his knowledge. I just think going from 100 mph to zero mph is a little drastic.

Am I pissed about the whole thing? I guess you could say that.

 

[joeyboy]

Moderators are not removing the content.

I will have to stop or I will get banned from VU.

 

[BigNasty]

It was theft based off his replies, off a few different web sites and out of various calculators.
One was a member of this board who stole them and reposted and profited off them.
Another was Vapecrafter (who much hatred and venom is deserved).

But alas it was not just HIC, also many other diyers were fucked over by them and recipes they put up.

 

[VaporJoe]

I will have to stop or I will get banned from VU.

We don't ban people for their opinions. That's an ECF thing.

 

[VaporJoe]

It was due to scumbag mother fucking thieves ripping his recipes off for profit and not giving credit to HIC for the creation.

Well it is a shitty thing to do, but we grow and we learn. Never sell recipes wide open like that -- some dickhead is going to buy them all and just publish them to be an asshole.

 

[BigNasty]

Well it is a shitty thing to do, but we grow and we learn. Never sell recipes wide open like that -- some dickhead is going to buy them all and just publish them to be an asshole.

I think it was someone on the diy section, who was taking them directly and making them calling them his for sale. Then reposting them as his.
Vapecrapper mined more than one calculator and other forums.

 

[Zamazam]

I think it was someone on the diy section, who was taking them directly and making them calling them his for sale. Then reposting them as his.
Vapecrapper mined more than one calculator and other forums.

Happens all the time on the internet. Especially with eJuice.

 

[Foggz]

damn.. was so nice to have such a great place to learn.. Too bad that people can't appreciate something without destroying it.
I'd rather not see these recipes than to have someone's hard work be so grossly misappropriated

@HeadInClouds @wllmc @MODsVU @VUMembers - Thank you for sharing!

 

[UncleRJ]

I will have to stop or I will get banned from VU.

Let me be perfectly honest in one of my rare appearances as a mod and not just a fellow vaper.

No one is getting banned here.

Period.

Some asshat (from over at that other place..........AKA ECF) from what little I understand, got PO'd at our vaping brother HIC for jumping ship for a better forum, AKA VU and bought a boatload of his recipes and started posting them on Reddit without permission.

May this asshat rot in hell.

The removal of the "Usable Content" AKA HIC's recipe was done by the OP after HIC contacted the OP and voiced his concerns. to the best of my understanding.

And if HIC sees fit to delete the fruits of his own hard work, that is his prerogative. Plain and simple.

I myself have been in contact with our vaping brother and master "Chef" over this issue.

And HIC, if I got any of this wrong, you know how to get in contact with me and feel free to correct me if I have gotten any of this wrong.

And no, you will not be banned for doing so!

 

[wllmc]

I will let HIC speak for himself but here is what I can tell you. HIC has decided to collect everything at Mama J's. We have been working together as friends for a couple years now and I have already had a page on my site dedicated to "HIC's notes on" These notes have been updated by @HeadInClouds and its been extremely well done and much had been added to it. It will be a lot easier than swimming around what will someday be thousands of post to find HICs notes on to read only one note on one flavor then searching for another. They will still be linked back to VU as they always have been. Everyone has been loving them all being consolidated in one place and its going to be even better and more informative than the original set. I already have them and they will be updated in the next few days.

 

[joeyboy]

And if HIC sees fit to delete the fruits of his own hard work, that is his prerogative. Plain and simple.

I am talking about a Hic recipe. If he wants to go and delete everything, like some others have done, go for it. I am talking about helpful hints in other's threads. Is there some great secret about those?

I bought my flavors to not buy fluid. I can't see buying premade mix or fluid from anyone. I spent too much money getting to this point. If there are only 10 or so good recipes I created, that's the way the cookie crumbles. One thing I saw was the writing on the wall and starting documenting any recipe I though would be good so I would have it. I will continue to do that and will expand to some TFA recipes. Lord knows there are plenty of those on the net.

I see the point of why he would do that with HIS stuff but to delete helpful hints or suggestions from other's recipe creations is ridiculous. If we all did that then NO thread would be worth the kilobyte it is using.

 

[HeadInClouds]

everyone relax! Promoting DIY is my "thing" - always has been, still is. I'll address these one by one, clearly as I can.

my notes on: @wllmc gathered all those together some time ago for easy access. That was great, til I started reading them. Okay, my "notes on" were just waaay out of date - most dated back to ecf, when I was just starting to use them. And so many missing FA flavors. Wrong starting percents. Typos. lol So I gathered all together today in one massive document and spent hours updating, adding the missing bits (okay, still about 6 to go), and getting rid of just BAD advice. I just finished that tonight. I've been asked so many times to add the missing flavors, and to put them all in one document. Big thanks to @wllmc for all the help with that. So look for much more useful notes in easier-to-locate format, at mamaj's.

 

[HeadInClouds]

about bad advice:

Recent scandals about vendor flavors without warnings led me to search out my recipes with high diketones. They were mostly old ones, and they won't return. New DIYers read old threads, some treat that FA thread as gospel, and I sometimes posted outdated advice (hey, some FA Meringue will make that great! - shoot me), bad advice (thought it was great at the time, know better now), and just plain stupid advice (it's great at 2% total flavoring, you'll get used to it). Nothing I can do about similar posts I can no longer edit on ecf, glad I edit here on VU.

 

[HeadInClouds]

starting documenting any recipe I though would be good so I would have it.

If you mean mine, my best here are intact. In fact quite a few were recently updated. I have much more to do with them, and there are still some I need to find and weed out. I hope to do all that this week. If it's currently a "." it could be for a number of reasons. Some need to be overhauled. Some were already replaced with improved versions, especially fruit flavors, now that I'm more adept with those. Some just honesty sucked, though I liked them at the time. Nobody bats 1000.

And there is the issue with ease-of-use in the whole recipes forum. Wouldn't it be nice to have an embedded function on VU to search for recipes with various flavors? Search function isn't great for that. It's another topic for some other day, but as I have trouble finding what I search for, I can imagine how hard it is for a newbie to navigate.

 

[joeyboy]

I as originally searching for your thread where you listed FA fruits and what FA fruit goes with that one. That is where I found this and what started this whole, got pissed, thing.

I agree. The search is difficult. A little calmer now.

 

[HeadInClouds]

I as originally searching for your thread where you listed FA fruits and what FA fruit goes with that one.

You mean http://mamajsflavorshop.com/headinclouds-my-notes-on-flavor-descriptions/ ? Those are at this moment all the stuff that was here (to be updated with an improved, more complete version that mamaj's has for review right now).

 

[Mike H.]

Ive tried the "." Flavor..its pretty good.

 

[wllmc]

Ive tried the "." Flavor..its pretty good.

it goes nicely with /\/\/\/\/\><()()()()()()

 

[joeyboy]

You mean http://mamajsflavorshop.com/headinclouds-my-notes-on-flavor-descriptions/ ? Those are at this moment all the stuff that was here (to be updated with an improved, more complete version that mamaj's has for review right now).

I use that site for your notes but I didn't look there for that. I found it somewhere but that computer is now dead.

 

[Mike H.]

As long as it dont taste like ( ! )...its all good.

 

[outwest]

You mean http://mamajsflavorshop.com/headinclouds-my-notes-on-flavor-descriptions/ ? Those are at this moment all the stuff that was here (to be updated with an improved, more complete version that mamaj's has for review right now).

No notes about strawberry on mamaj's site and your notes about strawberry are gone from here, but @wllmc posted that he'll have the updates uploaded in a couple of days. So there's some stuff that's temporarily nowhere to be found, but. . .

There's a couple of recipes I had bookmarked for eventually trying that are gone (such as the tropical cranberry punch), but hopefully they're being replaced with new, improved, versions either here or on your ecommerce site

 

[BigKev77]

I was leery of this HeadInClouds aka "HIC" from the start. I have a great detective's mind. I know this because I took a "What kind of cop are you?" test on Facebook and it said detective every time. On top of that, for years I have watched all the crime shows on TV. In fact just this weekend I watched two episodes of Bones and if you have seen that show you know those people are crazy smart.

I made one thread on this forum asking for opinions on a my first DIY flavor order. After some feedback I made my order and was excited to get started. Shortly after, I got a post on my thread from "HIC" saying this other flavor would be good and you can do this and that with these flavors. I also noticed a link on his post to his private recipes. Being a new player in this flavor game I bought a recipe and read the ingredient list. Of course I was short a couple of flavors so back to the retail site again to make another order. Now over $70 invested in his scam. Apparently this is common place with this suspect.

That night I sent one simple private message about a cream and custard without a buttery flavor. This "HIC" had the nerve to write back paragraphs loaded with links and line after line of descriptions of all these creams and how they work together. He also included links to actual food recipes to help me understand more clearly. Now I have over $100 worth of flavorings in my wishlists and I'm searching for this so called "JOY" flavor that is no "joy" to find.

This is clearly the work of a professional and not "one of us". Now I see he is deleting information that would not be helpful and making his flavor notes more easily accessed by colluding with another forum member one "wllmc". They are both clearly plants from "big flavor" here to push us into spending our hard earned dollars on DIY flavorings. I would avoid at all cost if not the cost will be much much higher.

 

[Dhafir]

.

 

[HeadInClouds]

There's a couple of recipes I had bookmarked for eventually trying that are gone (such as the tropical cranberry punch),

This is a good example - a recipe that contains both butryic acd and likely diacetyl. The reason it was removed is this information, which I only recently learned of: http://www.nudenicotine.com/gcms-critical-info-butyric-acid-modulates-diketone-toxicity/ . I will need to investigate further before I feel comfortable having a recipe with MY name on it that is possibly more harmful than diacetyl!

 

[outwest]

This is a good example - an recipe that contains both butryic acd and likely diacetyl. The reason it was removed is this information, which I only recently learned of: http://www.nudenicotine.com/gcms-critical-info-butyric-acid-modulates-diketone-toxicity/ . I will need to investigate further before I feel comfortable having a recipe with MY name on it that is possibly more harmful than diacetyl!

That's understandable

 

[VapesXO]

It's pretty shitty that people do things like that, but I don't think it's ever going to change; there will always be thieves.

I just hope that you aren't planning on closing up shop, @HeadInClouds! You're truly a Master of the Mix, man!

 

[BigKev77]

This is a good example - an recipe that contains both butryic acd and likely diacetyl. The reason it was removed is this information, which I only recently learned of: http://www.nudenicotine.com/gcms-critical-info-butyric-acid-modulates-diketone-toxicity/ . I will need to investigate further before I feel comfortable having a recipe with MY name on it that is possibly more harmful than diacetyl!

That is one of the reasons I decided to try this DIY thing in the first place. I would much rather know what is in my juice. The other was to save money but HIC happened.

 

[HeadInClouds]

Why some of my recipes are now "."

5 were wrecked by changes in manufacturers' flavors
7 had either very high diacetyl/subs or possible butyric acid + diacetyl combo (see post #30 above for link to safety info)
7 sucked, mostly ones I had on ecf; some may be reworked; some are not worth the effort
9 were already incorporated into improved recipes that are still here
2 were accidental duplicates from long ago
1 had percentages I'm know are incorrect, will have to remake it
5 are sitting on my mixing list with big changes
1 was similar to someone else's (I tread very carefully to avoid that; unintentional, but still needed to go)
1 I'm not sure why I deleted

Counts may not be perfectly accurate, but that's 38 out of 135 or so. The 100 or so still on VU are freely available as always, and will give better info/results.


Why some of my comments are now "."
I won't do a tally here, but I'll give you some examples:
recommending flavors that would not work in that case (I didn't realize that when I posted it)
broken links
recommendations for vendors I no longer recommend
instructions for using flavors with known high diketones or potential buytryic acid+diacetyl in that application (post #30 above)
comments I never should have made, sometimes inflammatory or argumentative
misinformation regarding substitute flavors (aka screw-ups)
my posts of my own recipes or snippets that meet the criteria of the above paragraph
just plain bad advice - ever see one of your old posts and wonder WTF you were thinking? that.
There are still plenty of my posts out there with these problems. I'll "." them as I run across them.

I see no advantage to keeping any of those things. Overhauled "notes on" document will hopefully prove useful.

 

[Whiskey]

So as I peruse old DIY threads looking for a certain thread of what FA fruit goes with what FA fruit listing, I see Hic has removed his tips in many DIY threads. The tips are recipe ideas for others who are trying to build a recipe.

I hope this site isn't turning in to the ECF. I read they had restrictions and would ban at the drop of a hat. Maybe VU doesn't ban but removing usable content that is not a patent or private is just as bad.

Think what would happen if all the relevant information was removed in the coil building section. A poster asks a question with the most helpful answer (s) as ".". I think people would stop using VU and move to a UK site.

Sure, there are many, many helpful people here that will always assist but if this trend continues from the "big dogs," what will be the final chapter?

Some know vastly more than others. Knowledge is power and should be shared. If you hold that knowledge and keep it to yourself who is really benefitting?

We have removed NOTHING, and never will, HIC is in charge of his area and is free to remove what he feels he wants to.

 

[dnezarmichael]

I like that it is now in a central spot, easy for updating

And way easier to search, cntrl f4, and bamm!, I have the info that I need. No need for google-fu , btw google fu was how I found out about vaping underground, when the flavor art club, moved over from ECF.

I've considered turning them into man pages, (its a unix friendly manual page not porn (pervs))

However that being said, I still think he is "Evil" for giving a shit about people, and caring enough to erase his bad influence in the past, into the future.

Vaping Underground is "Evil" because they have level headed moderators and their website works so damn fast.

Ohh and almost forgot, wllmc is really "Evil", I have looked at his profile picture for a long time and he looks like he is having way to much fun.

 

[wllmc]

HIC's notes on are updated for anyone who wants to check them out ! http://mamajsflavorshop.com/headinclouds-my-notes-on-flavor-descriptions/

 

[HeadInClouds]

HIC's notes on are updated for anyone who wants to check them out ! http://mamajsflavorshop.com/headinclouds-my-notes-on-flavor-descriptions/

Thank you, @wllmc !

 

[outwest]

HIC's notes on are updated for anyone who wants to check them out ! http://mamajsflavorshop.com/headinclouds-my-notes-on-flavor-descriptions/

Thanks!

 

[soulshine]

HIC and wllmc, I just want to say thank you both again for all that you do. Sorry that you are getting so much flack...for doing what people WANT YOU TO DO...LOL Keep up the great work guys

 

[TrashCat]

Fantastic! Thank you both

 

[wllmc]

@HeadInClouds is the real hero, when we started mixing we had to buy them all and try them one at a time at different % and then move on to the next one

 

[cardassian]

@HeadInClouds is the real hero, when we started mixing we had to buy them all and try them one at a time at different % and then move on to the next one

We'd probably all be better mixers if we did this. However I prefer standing on the shoulders of giants, gives a great view for little work

 

[HeadInClouds]

@HeadInClouds is the real hero, when we started mixing we had to buy them all and try them one at a time at different % and then move on to the next one

Good times! Man, we all made so many orders from purevapes. Should have got 'em all at once.

I'm looking at the "the original thread" at that other place - @wllmc - quiz time! (no fair peeking)

who said this about which FA flavor: "I mixed at a tiny fraction of a percent. It just made me wanna heave."

and this one: "could taste the green leaves on it , skin and everything."

bonus, who wrote: "Nut Mix FA and Patchouli Vanilla NN...that's gotta be a winner."

 

[wllmc]

you on the first one and me on the 2nd ? haha dang I wasnt ready for a bonus question. um, @Cramptholomew maybe ?

 

[wllmc]

@HeadInClouds do I win a prize ?

 

[HeadInClouds]

@HeadInClouds do I win a prize ?

YES! You win the bottle of Dark Vapure I was describing in the first quote. CONGRATULATIONS, winner! (seriously, I still have it)

hahaha Second is you, about Strawberry.

#3 - We2rcool liked that NN hippie vanilla.

 

[wllmc]

YES! You win the bottle of Dark Vapure I was describing in the first quote. CONGRATULATIONS, winner! (seriously, I still have it)

hahaha Second is you, about Strawberry.

#3 - We2rcool liked that NN hippie vanilla.

haha I knew it , the bonus one threw me off but I remember that now to. thats just sounds like a flavor cramps would use , Patchouli Vanilla lol. I still taste the green leaves an black seeds in the watermelon. mmmmmmmmmm

 

[HeadInClouds]

haha I knew it , the bonus one threw me off but I remember that now to. thats just sounds like a flavor cramps would use , Patchouli Vanilla lol. I still taste the green leaves an black seeds in the watermelon. mmmmmmmmmm

early @Cramptholomew : "Herbs on the inhale, and tobacco on the exhale. A little bit of Thai basil I think." - about Zen Garden

early Huck: "Ditto for coconut. I don't eat it, but it's great what it does with a vape." Still says that about coconut.

another me: "...not your fault I have old recipes floating around!" See, I brought this thread back full-circle.

Oh LOOK, another wllmc, this is hilarious: "might have to email him about the bread crust. really wanting to try that or just moonlight and grab a bottle from that other place lol" Skull and crossbones moment right there.

Some things haven't changed.

 

[wllmc]

early @Cramptholomew : "Herbs on the inhale, and tobacco on the exhale. A little bit of Thai basil I think." - about Zen Garden

early Huck: "Ditto for coconut. I don't eat it, but it's great what it does with a vape." Still says that about coconut.

another me: "...not your fault I have old recipes floating around!" See, I brought this thread back full-circle.

Oh LOOK, another wllmc, this is hilarious: "might have to email him about the bread crust. really wanting to try that or just moonlight and grab a bottle from that other place lol" Skull and crossbones moment right there.

Some things haven't changed.

lmao ! and you know what he did have bread crust and sent it to me. .. and no nothing has changed we still spend far to much time in the DIY catgory, I try to venture out to the other parts but i dont really care about coils lets make some JUICE!

 

[MistyMe]

haha I knew it , the bonus one threw me off but I remember that now to. thats just sounds like a flavor cramps would use , Patchouli Vanilla lol. I still taste the green leaves an black seeds in the watermelon. mmmmmmmmmm

Sounds like you guys spent the early days in the DIY trenches. The least I can do is to thank you for your service and listen to your war stories (as I sit in the shade, on the veranda, vaping the fruits of your labor and sacrifice).

 

[AmandaD]

And let's not forget the roast chicken fiasco LOL

 

[toleary1988]

@HeadInClouds is the reason i got into FA flavors lately and now i cant pay my rent... haha jk, but seriously he is definitely the reason my mixes are 100 x's better and i owe 80% of it to him..... Im extremely thankful for his advice! !!!