PG (propylene glycol) VERSUS VG (vegetable glycerin)

[chickenmonkey]

The FDA and industry will say anything to scare people. We use the pink antifreeze purposely because it is safe for consumption. When folks think of antifreeze they think of the motor vehicle type which is poison. I agree it is not the same thing at all. You can drink the pink stuff and be perfectly safe. It's all propaganda to scare the public to not vape, ban vaping and put high taxes on raw materials.

 

[GargoyleK1]

I loves me my zero PG juices… Well… except for the pg in the flavors… And someone forgot to tell my coils they need to get gunky… Clean as a whistle!! Hmmmm…

Honestly… You should vape what you like and what works for you.. whatever the ratio is.. We are all different.. Embrace it yo!!!

Plus….. I likes mah cloudz o vaperz….. LOL!!!!

 

[Smoky Blue]

pg is for flavor.. vg is for clouds..

as far as drinking pink antifreeze.. no thanks.
some of the pink anitfreeze does carry ethanol

 

[Damwow]

Yes VG is very heavy on the lungs, just look at your cars inside windshield with a heavy film that builds up which is kind of hard to remove even with windex. That film I believe can stick to your lung receptors in the same way with possibly making it hard to breath at times. Happens to me with high VG.

Having only vaped for just over 4 months and find myself after reading that comment, do u think over time that the film you mention could be found later on to have built up in vapers lungs and cause problems?

Honestly, we will I die from something and if it wasn't for vaping, it would have been the nasties that got me! So please don't take that question wrong!

 

[Damwow]

In my house we went from a 60/40 PG/VG to 20/80 PG/VG mix because my wife had developed deep muscle leg cramps. I did a a little research and found the PG lactic acid connection and did the switch to the lower PG and the wife's leg cramps went away.
I have been vaping using the same Kanger t3 for a month using the original coil, all I have had to do is change the wicking material for flavor. This is because I avoid using dark colored liquids. When I do use dark colored liquids my coils barley last a week.
So saying that vg gunks up coils is a fallacy.

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Wow I just told my husband I had been getting a lot of leg cramps lately! I vape 50/50, at least that's what they tell me it is where I buy my main adv! Very interesting!

 

[VapingHippie]

Wow I just told my husband I had been getting a lot of leg cramps lately! I vape 50/50, at least that's what they tell me it is where I buy my main adv! Very interesting!

Lower the amount of PG and see if it makes a difference. It took two days for my wife's leg cramps to go away once we made the switch.

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[Damwow]

I will have to try to ask the shop if they can get it made for me like that, or find a flavor I like and try to have it made that way until I know for sure. As it is my B&M store went with another brand of strawberries and cream but keep a big bottle for me in stock of the old version!

 

[ajaymes2001]

I'm one of the ones that HAS to use a high VG solution...I'll explain why. Less than 2% of vapers do develop an allergic contact dermatitis, they usually, but not always, have had a skin disorder prior to using PG. The most common skin disorder that PG exacerbates is eczema, users will develop symptoms similar to acne. I had eczema as a child, so I have to limit my PG to no more than 30%. I tried the industry "standard" 70p/30v when I first started vaping and almost immediately, my skin broke out. Started making my own and fiddling with ratios until I started clearing up.

 

[VapingHippie]

I will have to try to ask the shop if they can get it made for me like that, or find a flavor I like and try to have it made that way until I know for sure. As it is my B&M store went with another brand of strawberries and cream but keep a big bottle for me in stock of the old version!

Most B&M will mix your juices to.order, maybe they will have a flavor you may like as well. Right now peaches & cream is my ADV. Before it was butterscotch.

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[buffaloguy]

I will have to try to ask the shop if they can get it made for me like that, or find a flavor I like and try to have it made that way until I know for sure. As it is my B&M store went with another brand of strawberries and cream but keep a big bottle for me in stock of the old version!

You could also simply head to CVS and buy some plain veg glycerin (labeled just as glycerin there) and a bottle of distilled water. Add 20% distilled water to the VG and vape that most of the time for a couple days if you dont mind 0 nic unflavored. Just to see if it helps.

 

[chickenmonkey]

You might also add that some can't vape high VG either! People always talk about a 'sensitivity' to PG, but you don't see it mentioned that many people can't tolerate high VG - too heavy on the lungs, cough uncontrollably, and can affect breathing.

I tried a 30/70 pg/vg recipe and it is making me wheeze and cough badly. I made the same recipe using 50/50 without any problems. I thought I would try it. Guess my hubby will get all that. It did also mute the flavour alot. I didn't notice much of an increase in sweetness.

 

[Dchap]

PG matabolizes in to lactic acid. Lactic acid is produced in your body when you exorcise and is what gives you cramps if you do not stay hydrated. So stay hydrated and you should be good.

 

[MrScaryZ]

I tried a 30/70 pg/vg recipe and it is making me wheeze and cough badly. I made the same recipe using 50/50 without any problems. I thought I would try it. Guess my hubby will get all that. It did also mute the flavour alot. I didn't notice much of an increase in sweetness.

yeah more VG just takes longer to steep and as its natural and sweet it can change a recipe quite a bit I sometimes run 90% VG 10% distilled approx to just vape VG I like to mix things up I really do not like going below 40% VG and as of late I mostly make my recipes either 50/50 or 90vg 10% distilled

 

[AmandaD]

I think 40 years of smoking did my lungs no favors, and I can't vape much VG. I DIY at around 80pg/20pg which seems to be better - any more and my lungs rebel. It's different for everyone, but most people seem to do well on 50/50, which gives a good combination of flavor, throat hit, and clouds.

 

[MrScaryZ]

I change up all the time as I have been having some weird sinus issues trying to find out if its the VG or PG I started at 70/30 like most
now that I DIY I usually do 60/40 or50/50 I may sub-ohm at 20/80 but just for giggles of clouds

 

[ButtKickers]

I used 50/50 pg/vg for a while til I didn't quite feel right, then switched to 100% vg which made me feel better, until after about 10 weeks my lungs started to feel constricted; now I'm back using 50/50, but I know the pg will start to bother me eventually; so given what I've read in this thread, I'm going to try 70vg/30pg, and see how it goes

Thanks for posting this topic!

 

[JustBlowinSteam]

UMmm yes it could be but you should read this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifreeze


With proper antifreeze, a wide temperature range can be tolerated by the engine coolant, such as −34 °F (−37 °C) to +265 °F (129 °C) for 50% (by volume) propylene glycol diluted with water and a 15 psi pressurized coolant system.[1][2]
Early engine coolant antifreeze was methanol (methyl alcohol), still used in windshield washer fluid. As radiator caps were vented, not sealed, the methanol was lost to evaporation, requiring frequent replenishment to avoid freezing of the coolant. Methanol also accelerates corrosion of the metals, especially aluminium, used in the engine and cooling systems. Ethylene glycol was developed, and soon replaced methanol as an engine cooling system antifreeze. It has a very low volatility compared to methanol and to water.

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AND...... It's also used in Asthma Medications and people inhale those on a daily basis.....just sayin!!

 

[ButtKickers]

I've recently noticed that if I add just a tiny amount of PG (literally a few drops) to my 100% VG liquid; that it no longer affects my breathing.

In my case a small amount of PG seems to be beneficial. Has anyone else noticed this?

 

[cherrycakes]

PG = PROPYLENE GLYCOL
THINNER CONSISTENCY
NO SWEET UNDERTONES
ALLOWS MORE INTENSE FLAVOR
SOME MAY BE SENSITIVE TO PG
MORE THROAT HIT
WARMER VAPOR
PRODUCES LESS VAPOR
LESS LIKELY TO GUNK UP YOUR ATOMIZER




VG=VEGETABLE GLYCERIN
THICKER CONSISTENCY
SLIGHTLY SWEET
CAN MINIMALLY REDUCE FLAVOR INTENSITY
SOLVES SENSITIVITY ISSUES SOMETIMES CAUSED BY PG
LESS THROAT HIT
COOLER VAPOR
PRODUCES MORE VAPOR
MORE LIKELY TO GUNK UP ATOMIZER

I can't deal with the throat hit. PG also makes me really dehydrated, constipated (TMI I know) and makes me break out in mouth sores/cracked lips/sore mouth
I use vg but because most of the good flavors are pg based I end up with like 80/20.
And yea it's thick as shit and a pain to work with but I add a little distilled water so it doesn't clog everything

 

[cherrycakes]

PG has many uses - who cares what they are! It works in vaping

it's also in food, shampoo, all kinds of stuff

 

[ButtKickers]

It's something that I prefer to have a minimal intake of. A small amount seems to make me tolerate VG better, but I keep my 50/50 intake to a minimum; as it gives me an upset stomach, and makes my mouth sore after a while. 70vg/30pg or lower pg content is where I try to stay

 

[Demoniacal]

PG is used in commercially sold antifreeze for vehicles, I work at a parts store, it's in the low tox antifreezes that anybody who works on their own car and cares about their dogs or cats enough should buy, I ask any customer who's looking for antifreeze if they have pets and sell them low tox if they do.
Not alot of parts stores around my area keep it in stock, it's a special order at most of them, but being an animal lover, and the manager who does all of the add on orders for my store, I try to remember to get at least a case in each week. That being said, it doesn't really matter, some like PG, others can't handle it. Personally, vape what makes you happy and keeps you stinky free, does it really matter what other uses the ingredients have as long as they're safe for consumption?

 

[Delion]

In our business we use the pink antifreeze (marine) to winterize abandoned properties. On the bottle it says 40% propylene glycol and 60% ionized water.
The exert below is from Wikipedia. Google rv antifreeze ingrediants and the msds.

Like ethylene glycol, propylene glycol is able to lower the freezing point of water, and so it is used as aircraft de-icing fluid.[4][8] Water-propylene glycol mixtures dyed pink to indicate the mixture is relatively nontoxic are sold under the name of RV or marine antifreeze. Propylene glycol is frequently used as a substitute for ethylene glycol in low toxicity, environmentally friendly automotive antifreeze (such as Sierra, Prestone Low Tox, and Texaco PG). It is also used to winterize the plumbing systems in vacant structures.

Chickenmonkey I use to be in that same business, unfortunately the money and numbers just keep getting lower and lower on that particular business so will probably shut my doors on that particular business soon.

As for the PG/VG thing, I do 50/50 and I keep my tanks cleaned at least once a week. So am not sure if the gunk build up is very bad in my mixes due to how often I do clean my tanks. However I noticed the same some have about to much vg yanks my flavor way down, and I get to sweet of a throat hit as it were. Yet I get the serious clouds on higher levels of vg. I have not tried it in reverse on the PG high end may have to give that a go.

 

[chickenmonkey]

Chickenmonkey I use to be in that same business, unfortunately the money and numbers just keep getting lower and lower on that particular business so will probably shut my doors on that particular business soon.

As for the PG/VG thing, I do 50/50 and I keep my tanks cleaned at least once a week. So am not sure if the gunk build up is very bad in my mixes due to how often I do clean my tanks. However I noticed the same some have about to much vg yanks my flavor way down, and I get to sweet of a throat hit as it were. Yet I get the serious clouds on higher levels of vg. I have not tried it in reverse on the PG high end may have to give that a go.

Do you contract for safeguard crooks.

 

[Delion]

Do you contract for safeguard crooks.

Nah I stayed as far away from them as possible, but the money is still alot lower then it was when I first started is why I am thinking of giving up on it.

 

[Mommay]

You know the old saying? Opinions & assholes - everyone has 'em! Well here's my opinion regarding PG/VG (and a couple of related items).

We are all different with PG/VG preferences - just like flavor profiles. I have found that I do best with no more than 60-65% VG. More than that & my chest does feel heavy. I also feel that my coils gunk faster with VG. WAIT! Before I get flamed for that statement, I must add that I vape sweet fruit juices & I chain vape, which causes my coils to stay hot & (I theorize) that causes the thicker juice to literally cook onto my coils. The sweet & the continually hot coils just don't get along well. Even with 50/50 juices, I go through pre-built coils at a record rate. Thank goodness, I learned to rebuild the Kangers, now use some RBTAs & the new BVC seem to last longer with the higher VG juices. (I can still cook them, it just takes longer).

I don't care that a product I use in ejuice may be used in some scary (unsafe) sounding products, as long as I know it's safe for me to ingest or inhale. Heck, I make an on-spot flea & tick killer for friends with dogs. It has peppermint, clove & vanillin in it (plus some other goodies). Does that mean that I won't vape anything with any of those things in it? Even though it's in flea & tick killer? Heck, no! Now, with DIY juice, I can make/vape whatever preference I desire. That's what this is all about anyway - what is right for me, is probably not perfect for you.

The best part of DIY is finding your own perfect blend & using the things that are currently believed to be safe. I'm sure as more research is done & we learn more, that "safe list" will evolve (ex> Coca-Cola no longer has extracts from coca leaves or kola nuts)...just like our preferences & opinions regarding PG/VG. Find your favorite, make sure you share it with us - we might (or might not) like it, too & vape on, cordially.