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jwill
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Gold/Silver and Copper are some of, not the best conductors. Gold is widely used because it is good enough of a conductor and doesn't oxidize like some of the others. That's why they plate stuff with it and not use pure gold. Platinum, Palladium and even tin are less resistive than Silver or copper. It boils down to cost and feasibility to produce. No one really uses tin anymore (high voltage/amp) for electrical because it has burned down way too many homes and it isn't used in decorative finishes because it looks like shit and oxidizes quickly.
Silver is a better conductor than copper but only marginally. There are other much more conductive metals than any of these being argued about.
Conductivity & Resistivity in Metals
Material
Resistivity
p(Ω•m) at 20°C
Conductivity
σ(S/m) at 20°C
Silver 1.59x10-8 6.30x107
Copper 1.68x10-8 5.98x107
Annealed Copper 1.72x10-8 5.80x107
Gold 2.44x10-8 4.52x107
Aluminum 2.82x10-8 3.5x107
Calcium 3.36x10-8 2.82x107
Beryllium 4.00x10-8 2.500x107
Rhodium 4.49x10-8 2.23x107
Magnesium 4.66x10-8 2.15x107
Molybdenum 5.225x10-8 1.914x107
Iridium 5.289x10-8 1.891x107
Tungsten 5.49x10-8 1.82x107
Zinc 5.945x10-8 1.682x107
Cobalt 6.25x10-8 1.60x107
Cadmium 6.84x10-8 1.467
Nickel (electrolytic) 6.84x10-8 1.46x107
Ruthenium 7.595x10-8 1.31x107
Lithium 8.54x10-8 1.17x107
Iron 9.58x10-8 1.04x107
Platinum 1.06x10-7 9.44x106
Palladium 1.08x10-7 9.28x106
Tin 1.15x10-7 8.7x106
Selenium 1.197x10-7 8.35x106
Tantalum 1.24x10-7 8.06x106
Niobium 1.31x10-7 7.66x106
Steel (Cast) 1.61x10-7 6.21x106
Chromium 1.96x10-7 5.10x106
Lead 2.05x10-7 4.87x106
Vanadium 2.61x10-7 3.83x106
Uranium 2.87x10-7 3.48x106
Antimony* 3.92x10-7 2.55x106
Zirconium 4.105x10-7 2.44x106
Titanium 5.56x10-7 1.798x106
Mercury 9.58x10-7 1.044x106
Germanium* 4.6x10-1 2.17
Silicon* 6.40x102 1.56x10-3
Silver is a better conductor than copper but only marginally. There are other much more conductive metals than any of these being argued about.
Conductivity & Resistivity in Metals
Material
Resistivity
p(Ω•m) at 20°C
Conductivity
σ(S/m) at 20°C
Silver 1.59x10-8 6.30x107
Copper 1.68x10-8 5.98x107
Annealed Copper 1.72x10-8 5.80x107
Gold 2.44x10-8 4.52x107
Aluminum 2.82x10-8 3.5x107
Calcium 3.36x10-8 2.82x107
Beryllium 4.00x10-8 2.500x107
Rhodium 4.49x10-8 2.23x107
Magnesium 4.66x10-8 2.15x107
Molybdenum 5.225x10-8 1.914x107
Iridium 5.289x10-8 1.891x107
Tungsten 5.49x10-8 1.82x107
Zinc 5.945x10-8 1.682x107
Cobalt 6.25x10-8 1.60x107
Cadmium 6.84x10-8 1.467
Nickel (electrolytic) 6.84x10-8 1.46x107
Ruthenium 7.595x10-8 1.31x107
Lithium 8.54x10-8 1.17x107
Iron 9.58x10-8 1.04x107
Platinum 1.06x10-7 9.44x106
Palladium 1.08x10-7 9.28x106
Tin 1.15x10-7 8.7x106
Selenium 1.197x10-7 8.35x106
Tantalum 1.24x10-7 8.06x106
Niobium 1.31x10-7 7.66x106
Steel (Cast) 1.61x10-7 6.21x106
Chromium 1.96x10-7 5.10x106
Lead 2.05x10-7 4.87x106
Vanadium 2.61x10-7 3.83x106
Uranium 2.87x10-7 3.48x106
Antimony* 3.92x10-7 2.55x106
Zirconium 4.105x10-7 2.44x106
Titanium 5.56x10-7 1.798x106
Mercury 9.58x10-7 1.044x106
Germanium* 4.6x10-1 2.17
Silicon* 6.40x102 1.56x10-3
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Check scientific notation on your table. Metals are listed in descending order of conductance. Silver provides least resistance of any structurally stable metal. Non-metal superconductors can be produced with better conductivity, but they’re not suitable for our purposes for use as resilient battery contacts.
jwill
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These values are at 1m and very controlled circumstances. It becomes marginal at shorter and shorter distances which is why I was referencing resistance. I'm sure someone with a calculator can whip the formula into actual measures for each of these devices based on their respective lengths. Calculate a small loss for connections and come up with hard numbers.
I have no skin in this argument over one high dollar mod hitting harder than the other and imagine they both do a nice job. I think silver one is a much smaller, more compact package from what I can see, so there is a very real possibility that this device hits harder than a purge mod because it has less resistivity, is more conductive and has a smaller loop to complete.
What you'll find is Pilak owners like myself consistently state that it's the hardest hitting Mod we own and a number of us have a sizable collection that we can compare it to. High Dollar doesn't always mean better, but a lot of times it does. I have a number of high dollar mods and there are a few I really haven't been impressed with but most of them yes. This is do to doing my homework before spending the $$$$$ and it has worked out for me
Example as @CrazyChef v2.0 stated earlier in this thread about the Pilak
jwill
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It is a beautiful mod. I am putting this on the top of my bi annual big spend item (if I can find one when that time comes). In my opinion and from only seeing it online and in photos here it looks to be machined better, has a nicer finish and is just a better presentation overall. I have read some reviews elsewhere and the general consensus is it is a ultra premium device that actually performs like a boss. That is something I want in my life.
If we have a werewolf outbreak I can shed a tear, melt it down and make bullets with it.
jwill
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I gotcha man. I’m just pointing out the scientific notation thing
After rereading I ended up editing the original post slightly because I didn't convey my thoughts accurately. I would rather be called out for it than have it going down in internet history as just plain wrong. So I appreciate it.
Yeah it IMO is way worth the money, plus another thing I have to say about the Pilak's is this. It is also the smoothest I've vaped, this is also commented by others who I have let vape off of my Pilak's, they all rave about how smooth it is. Do I have scientific proof? Nope, it's just how it vapes. I can take an RDA off another Mod, pop it on one of my Pilak's and you can tell a noticeable difference.
Cheers man
jwill
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My only fear with it is like anything else premium I have. I get it, fall in love and then want more. Watch the dollars fly out of the wallet.
That is the major problem ........... lol ............
The way I justify it is how much money I used to spend when I was still on the Stinkies
Ya thy are not made in China my bad I’m not saying thy are a bad mod buy no means
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We already know you consistently state it, just like we already know you consistently keep ignoring reliable evidence in support of the opposite, i.e. highly accurate measurements to show that the metal the tube itself is made of doesn't matter, and you also consistenlty keep ingoring that pure silver contacts are available for Purge Mods... which is why this debate is circular and to the point of pure retardedness instead of doing your homework.
At least someone will admit when they're wrong, unlike others that we know of
No I'm not talking about you Sleey0 to insure I clarify.
Look who's talking again...At least someone will admit when they're wrong, unlike others that we know of
No I'm not talking about you Sleey0 to insure I clarify.
You guys are funny.... I love both pilak and purge mods.
I really can't imagine the pilak being any different to a purge with silver contacts. I will say also there really isn't any way possible that the pilak is manufactured any better because purges are downright beastly. I'd probably put them on even ground and let preference of looks and where it's made decide where your money goes to.
I really can't imagine the pilak being any different to a purge with silver contacts. I will say also there really isn't any way possible that the pilak is manufactured any better because purges are downright beastly. I'd probably put them on even ground and let preference of looks and where it's made decide where your money goes to.
I can agree to a point, I myself don't have a Purge but Chief does and did his comparison. What I can compare too is I have a few Rig V2's with pure silver contacts and springs, plus a few other tubes like my Heimdall and that is copper with silver contacts. I also have parallels like my MCV Raptor G2's (Aluminum and Copper) which have the pure Silver upgrade kit. They all hit damn hard almost as well as my Pilak's but just almost but nothing scientific that I can prove but the Pilak's seem to be smoother also, this isn't just me for those who've I've let vape from them all comment on the smoothness.
Anyway most all of this is just opinions, I could really give a shit either way for while I do take into consideration the opinions of others I form my own. I will share my opinions if some agree or some disagree it's really no shit in my shorts. There are a lot of people out there that really take this way too seriously.
Cheers
That is precisely what I have been saying all along. The funniest part IMO is, in threads like these there's always someone who takes himself so seriously that he goes into complete denial by claiming it's not him, but other people who take this way too seriously, i.e. he keeps arguing for the sake of argument because, if you've read the thread, then you already know as well as I do that he really does have that much shit in his shorts. After all, this isn't the first time he's been throwing around his fantasies like this.
Not trying to be inflammatory here. If your rig mods don't hit as hard as your Pilak, I don't think that is even any kind of proof that a silver mod hits noticeably harder. It could have more to do with the design of the mod like the contact the threads make, the switch design, etc. I know a bunch of people who own silver mods have jumped in and said that they hit harder, but that is just anecdotal evidence from people who most likely have a confirmation bias.I can agree to a point, I myself don't have a Purge but Chief does and did his comparison. What I can compare too is I have a few Rig V2's with pure silver contacts and springs, plus a few other tubes like my Heimdall and that is copper with silver contacts. I also have parallels like my MCV Raptor G2's (Aluminum and Copper) which have the pure Silver upgrade kit. They all hit damn hard almost as well as my Pilak's but just almost but nothing scientific that I can prove but the Pilak's seem to be smoother also, this isn't just me for those who've I've let vape from them all comment on the smoothness.
Anyway most all of this is just opinions, I could really give a shit either way for while I do take into consideration the opinions of others I form my own. I will share my opinions if some agree or some disagree it's really no shit in my shorts. There are a lot of people out there that really take this way too seriously.
Cheers
I am open to the possibility that I am wrong about all of this.
No confirmation bias just from observation from use plus I have more expensive mods than the Pilak that don't hit as well and I know @CrazyChef v2.0 also has Mod's more expensive also. As for the switch design, but as I also mentioned all contacts and threads on the mod are all silver. As I stated above that's my opinion along with others so take it for what it is.
Oh and you're not being inflammatory and I'm not taking it the wrong way, you're just asking questions.
More denial. Just the kind of thing every sane person would expect from someone who very clearly has all the reason to keep hiding the old shit in his shorts.
For the sake of not trying to be inflammatory here, I am open to the possibility that unicorns exist. AFTER he shows me one.
Do you mean to tell me that mod in the pic you posted is pure silver? Because if not, you definitely should get your money back!Fine this will hit harder then ur purge game over
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I have four purge mods including the executioner. They are expensive. Are they worth it? To me, yes they are.
As far as how hard it "hits", I have a $20 able clone from a flea market and that's a hard hitting mofo too!
This discussion reminds me of the audio guys talking about how much better a $2k cable sounds than lamp cord!
I can tell you this though. Purge mods will get a lot more "hits" from people asking to see it!
As far as how hard it "hits", I have a $20 able clone from a flea market and that's a hard hitting mofo too!
This discussion reminds me of the audio guys talking about how much better a $2k cable sounds than lamp cord!
I can tell you this though. Purge mods will get a lot more "hits" from people asking to see it!
Well with a $2k cable you still have the benefit of the doubt because the human hearing system is incredibly sensitive to some differences that most engineers would call inaudible─as these people's views typically are limited by how small these differences look on paper as well as due to there being a fuck ton of severely flawed DBTs out there that are claimed to be "reliable proof of inaudibility" by hoards of self-defined objectivists (who remind me of Big Pharma and Big Tobacco)─when the reality is that some of these incredibly small differences have nevertheless been shown to be audible in a real DBT (see: http://www.aes.org/e-lib/browse.cfm?elib=17497 ). There's just too many complex variables and too many unknowns when dealing with audio signals and the science of psychoacoustics. Whereas the reality check here is in the fact that the voltage coming out of a mech mod is just a single variable that's easy enough to 1/ measure accurately (with the right kind of equipment), and 2/ use to compare differences to the order of magnitude that is representative of the smallest difference discernible by vaping.I have four purge mods including the executioner. They are expensive. Are they worth it? To me, yes they are.
As far as how hard it "hits", I have a $20 able clone from a flea market and that's a hard hitting mofo too!
This discussion reminds me of the audio guys talking about how much better a $2k cable sounds than lamp cord!
I can tell you this though. Purge mods will get a lot more "hits" from people asking to see it!
Can most people tell the difference in 5W using a decent reg device such as a DNA? Most differences are <5W electrical. If outside that range something is seriously wrong. (and TBH is)
And esoteric cable may be demonstrably superior with ideal conditions, equipment, etc. the point of diminishing returns has far exceeded the wow factor.
I won't even go to the ludicrous such as stands to hold wire elevated off the floor and power cables for monoblock amplifiers that costs thousands of dollars!
Hearing IS by far the best sense one has. And too, possibly the biggest modern day travesty is 99% of the population not only uses its potential, but destroys it with crap music being pumped into their canals on a daily basis!
And esoteric cable may be demonstrably superior with ideal conditions, equipment, etc. the point of diminishing returns has far exceeded the wow factor.
I won't even go to the ludicrous such as stands to hold wire elevated off the floor and power cables for monoblock amplifiers that costs thousands of dollars!
Hearing IS by far the best sense one has. And too, possibly the biggest modern day travesty is 99% of the population not only uses its potential, but destroys it with crap music being pumped into their canals on a daily basis!
As Mooch explained in his reddit post, if we can assume that the wall of the tube is 3mm thick and we can assume 50 amps (150 watts at the coils), then the difference between a silver tube and a copper one is only 0.00002 volts. Even if the wall is only 1mm thick, then the difference is still only 0.0001 volts so the difference in power loss is actually less than 0.01 watts, i.e. a whopping 500+ times smaller than those 5 watts that you mention... so this is why, clearly, this whole discussion is as moot as moot can be, and, you should just let the thread die.
https://www.reddit.com/r/electronic...chanical_mod_tube_metal_choice_doesnt_matter/
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You might consider taking you own advice to heart.
I was going to─until someone revived the thread.
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So in other words - you weren't.
At first I was, until the post about the audiophile analogy temporarily changed my mind.
This. Other factors will certainly apply (machining of threads, number of connection points, etc.) but from a materials science standpoint, and with regard to choice of metal used in a mods construction, this.
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The 5W figure came from actual bolometric measurements on a malfunctioning tube (Rig Descendant). Its button was getting very hot. The point was very few if any can tell a difference between 95W and 100W (setting on a regulated box) and 5W as you pointed out is MUCH greater difference on materials given same machining quality and specs.
Even so, you will have folks claiming that they can immediately tell the difference between their SS shorty and copper one. There may be indeed a difference but it's not due to the material the tube is made of.
It is never the tube material. It is the contacts and the threading and whether it is hybrid or standard. Pilaks hit hard becuase the contacts are solid silver and the machining is spot on. Let's stop talking about tube material and start talking about contacts and machining. The Purge performs better when you replace the magnets and contact with silver spring and contact. Purge engraving and machining is excellent. Is it worth the price? Dunno.
I had this same conversation when I got my Duvo. It is a nice mod. I love Manhattens (Duvo is a Msanhatten essentially). Is it worth 2oo dollars though. I'm buying a Chronicle from purecoils and I bet it will hit as hard. It is hybrid. @CrazyChef v2.0 says it hits very hard. It is half the price of a Duvo and a third the price of an engraved or twisted Purge.
These are circular conversations. No one can say whether or not the Purge is worth it. I was told to get an Able not a Duvo. Guess what - I had two Ables and preferred the Duvo. Right now I'm using a Dreamer that I love as my daily and it is less than 100 dollars. Button never gets hot. It takes my fav batteries (sanyo 20700 and five prong ijoys). Everyone has there preferences. My son has two Purges and swears by them. He did not care how much they cost.
So many mods seem outrageously priced. I squonk. Why are 3d printed mods more than 50 dollars? I paid more for my Plug, my Ion, my Boxer, etc. Crazy. No. It is what it is. If you don't want a Purge don't sweat it. If you do - pay up.
I had this same conversation when I got my Duvo. It is a nice mod. I love Manhattens (Duvo is a Msanhatten essentially). Is it worth 2oo dollars though. I'm buying a Chronicle from purecoils and I bet it will hit as hard. It is hybrid. @CrazyChef v2.0 says it hits very hard. It is half the price of a Duvo and a third the price of an engraved or twisted Purge.
These are circular conversations. No one can say whether or not the Purge is worth it. I was told to get an Able not a Duvo. Guess what - I had two Ables and preferred the Duvo. Right now I'm using a Dreamer that I love as my daily and it is less than 100 dollars. Button never gets hot. It takes my fav batteries (sanyo 20700 and five prong ijoys). Everyone has there preferences. My son has two Purges and swears by them. He did not care how much they cost.
So many mods seem outrageously priced. I squonk. Why are 3d printed mods more than 50 dollars? I paid more for my Plug, my Ion, my Boxer, etc. Crazy. No. It is what it is. If you don't want a Purge don't sweat it. If you do - pay up.
The silver spring is the most important upgrade for me, not because it hits harder (it does), but because it makes the button throw perfectly smooth. Whereas with the magnets it can be a bit jerky (excepting after you remove one magnet thereby making the button throw much softer) and also you can get partial misfires if you don't hold your finger in the right spot before you press the button. The hard silver spring fixes all that. The Mathew Hagermann engravings are machined copies, but yeah... the quality on them is marvellous. Just not as marvellous as the ones that are hand engraved by Mathew Hagermann directly onto the mod in question.
And just as an aside. Copper contacts are a bitch. You have to clean them twice weekly. How hard is it to make a solid silver or at least silver plated? Even disregarding that silver hits harder - it stays cleaner. Which is why it always hits hard. I have copper contacts in a few of my tubes and mech squonks. Damn I hate them. Thankfully you can go to Vape Mechanikz and get diver contacts from Eric for most tubes!
Yep I have to agree, silver is so bloody easy to maintain.
I've gotten a lot of contacts, springs and 510 pins from Eric and love the results!
As much as I hate to rain on your parade... last time I checked, both the silver spring and the silver firing pin from Purge Mods are solid silver.
Well I never said they were not.
My silver "upgrade kit" for the subzero shorty in fact, are silver plated over copper and I can faintly see the red sheen coming through the silver plating after a few gentle cleanings.
The silver springs are solid silver, yes. And they need to be maintained as silver is a poor material for a spring. Little current should flow through the spring in the first place!
My silver "upgrade kit" for the subzero shorty in fact, are silver plated over copper and I can faintly see the red sheen coming through the silver plating after a few gentle cleanings.
The silver springs are solid silver, yes. And they need to be maintained as silver is a poor material for a spring. Little current should flow through the spring in the first place!
Then why are you replying to a thread that has been turned into yet another typical mod bashing fest?
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Was thinking about buying the pure silver contact pin for the dreamer. Did you feel the difference in how hard it hits/conductivity when you put it in?
Purge is American made, they have hands down the BEST customer service of ANY company I’ve ever dealt with. The machining and craftsmanship is top notch above all, performance and aesthetic pass the check as well. All in all one of the best company imo hands down.
I’ll live and die by my purge
I’ll live and die by my purge
