Question for the "syringe method" mixers here

[MWorthington]

I realize the best way to mix is by weight, but, like a lot of you here I don't have scales so I do what I can.

My question is, when you measure flavors, do you account for the flavoring that's in the needle itself, or do you just count what's showing on the syringe scale?

For instance, you're mixing up a 10ml taster and you want to add .25 ml of a given flavor with a 1ml syringe, do you simply pull out .25 ml on the scale or do you allow for what's in the syringe? I'm sure it doesn't matter so much on larger quantities, but in smaller batches, especially with some of HIC's mixes where he uses as little as .25 percent, it seems to me it could throw off the ratios.

Or am I just over thinking it?

Thanks,

Michael

 

[Briandesimone]

I do not account for the needle when I'm making 10ml samples. It works for me and I haven't noticed a difference.

Sent from my SM-S120VL using Tapatalk

 

[Markw4mms]

I mix by weight now but I still use a syringe to pull flavors out of my bottles. I never took the amount in the needle into account, and never had any problems with something not turning out right.

 

[Heartsdelight]

I think it's accounted for by the syringe.

 

[PuffOn]

If there is no air in the syringe, whats left in the needle doesn't come out.

 

[HondaDavidson]

Its not. If it was you'd need a different syringe for every needle size.

If your blending down in the hundreths of a percent then the drop or 3 in the tube might matter. Otherwise don't worry about it....

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk

 

[AndriaD]

I figured what's in the needle is an unknowable amount, and I'm not anal enough to worry about it. And while mixing by weight might be a POPULAR way to do it, I don't thnk it's the best way, not at all. I still don't buy milk by the pound nor bacon by the gallon. I measure liquids by liquid measure, and solids by dry weight. Because IT MAKES SENSE TO DO IT THAT WAY.

If you need to make very small amounts and actually care about hundredths of a percent or ml (I AM anal enough to care about that, for very small quantities), get some 1ml syringes; their markings are down to hundredths of a ml. They're kinda hard to see, but if you're making a 5ml tester, you can get it just right. WizLabs is where I get 1ml luer lock syringes. Other places might have them, but I can't find them anywhere, only 1ml slip tips. I prefer luer locks so the pressure of the liquid leaving the syringe doesn't blow the needle right off.

Andria

 

[HeadInClouds]

My question is, when you measure flavors, do you account for the flavoring that's in the needle itself, or do you just count what's showing on the syringe scale?

I always found it harder to read the markings at the bottom of those syringes, so I tended to load extra & dispense exactly what I needed. Say you have a 1ml syringe, and you want 0.25ml of a flavoring. I'd load 0.5ml and dispense it down to 0.25...or load 1ml and dispense it down to 0.75. (Then dispense the excess back into the flavor bottle). That made it easier for me to measure really accurately.

 

[AndriaD]

I always found it harder to read the markings at the bottom of those syringes, so I tended to load extra & dispense exactly what I needed. Say you have a 1ml syringe, and you want 0.25ml of a flavoring. I'd load 0.5ml and dispense it down to 0.25...or load 1ml and dispense it down to 0.75. (Then dispense the excess back into the flavor bottle). That made it easier for me to measure really accurately.

I was mixing last night, and got reminded of another thing that helps to make syringes more accurate measures -- when you first draw anything into the syringe, there's a little bit of air, which makes the liquid not hit right on the measure-lines accurately... so I draw some up, then push it back down into the flavor bottle right away, THEN pull up to the correct measure -- it gets rid of the air bubble, so the liquid hits right on the measure line.

Andria

 

[MWorthington]

Thanks a million to everybody that responded. I really appreciate it. @HeadInClouds, I feel like a total idiot for not thinking of pulling out a multiple of the volume I need to begin with. See, I figured I was overthinking the whole process.

@AndriaD, Nicotene River has 1ml luer lock syringes @ .45 each in case you might happen to be there ordering flavors and need syringes at the same time. I ordered 5 of them this morning.

Michael

 

[AndriaD]

Thanks a million to everybody that responded. I really appreciate it. @HeadInClouds, I feel like a total idiot for not thinking of pulling out a multiple of the volume I need to begin with. See, I figured I was overthinking the whole process.

@AndriaD, Nicotene River has 1ml luer lock syringes @ .45 each in case you might happen to be there ordering flavors and need syringes at the same time. I ordered 5 of them this morning.

Michael

Never bought anything from them, but maybe I should stop by and see what flavors they have available. They may have some that are harder to find at the places I usually shop. Thx!

Andria

 

[MWorthington]

Never bought anything from them, but maybe I should stop by and see what flavors they have available. They may have some that are harder to find at the places I usually shop. Thx!

Andria

They have a huge selection of flavors at really good prices for the most part. Shipping costs tend to hit a hard lick right now, but I grit my teeth and pay it because I really like their nic. I just ordered 250 ml of 100mg nic, 500ml of VG, 3x10 ml bottles of flavoring and 5x1ml syringes this morning and the shipping was $13.96 to MS.

It hurts but whatcha gonna do? BCF has the better shipping costs but doesn't sell nicotene.

Michael

 

[Heabob]

Nicotene River has 1ml luer lock syringes @ .45 each in case you might happen to be there ordering flavors and need syringes at the same time. I ordered 5 of them this morning.

Be cautious using the plastic syringes with certain flavors like TFA Banana Ripe.
It will melt the rubber and tastes pretty nasty in recipes.
I started using glass 1ml luer lock syringes early on, but have since switched to using a cheapo scale.
(It's nice not having to wash syringes all the time).
You can find them on Ebay; the ones from China are cheaper but take some time to arrive.
And many of the .01 scales are cheap enough these days too.

 

[The Cromwell]

BCF has the better shipping costs but doesn't sell nicotene.

How about MFS?

 

[The Cromwell]

Be cautious using the plastic syringes with certain flavors like TFA Banana Ripe.
It will melt the rubber and tastes pretty nasty in recipes.
I started using glass 1ml luer lock syringes early on, but have since switched to using a cheapo scale.
(It's nice not having to wash syringes all the time).
You can find them on Ebay; the ones from China are cheaper but take some time to arrive.
And many of the .01 scales are cheap enough these days too.

I just buy Duda Diesel syringes from Amazon.

 

[MWorthington]

Be cautious using the plastic syringes with certain flavors like TFA Banana Ripe.
It will melt the rubber and tastes pretty nasty in recipes.

Thanks. I'll remember that.

How about MFS?

I will check them out. I just saw a coupon code for 13 percent off on a liter of 100mg. I wish I'd seen it a little earlier.

Michael

 

[JuicyLucy]

I realize the best way to mix is by weight,

I always cringe a little when I see that "rule" bantered around

I personally hate mixing by weight and only use syringes by choice

 

[MWorthington]

 

[The Cromwell]

I always cringe a little when I see that "rule" bantered around

I personally hate mixing by weight and only use syringes by choice

I agree. Syringes for me.

If I did large volumes I could see mixing by weight.
I do 120 ml batches.

I just measure out my flavorings, nic, etc into the bottle and fill the rest of the way with my PG/VG blend.
I measure my PG/VG blend into liter bottles with a measuring cup.

 

[The Cromwell]

Thanks. I'll remember that.



I will check them out. I just saw a coupon code for 13 percent off on a liter of 100mg. I wish I'd seen it a little earlier.

Michael

They are where I get all my nic and have been well satisfied with it.

 

[MWorthington]

I generally make 200 ml batches myself.

Michael

 

[Artemis]

I use syringes. I will never mix by weight.

 

[AndriaD]

I always cringe a little when I see that "rule" bantered around

I personally hate mixing by weight and only use syringes by choice

Likewise. As I always say.. I buy milk by the gallon and bacon by the pound. Mixing liquid by weight may be one of the stupidest things I've ever heard of. I don't find rinsing out syringes that big a deal... But then, I do have filtered water right at the tap; if I didn't have that, our hard water would definitely shorten the life of the rubber seals.

My shisha strawberry is a bit hard on the rubber seals too; if I don't rinse them RIGHT away, the syringe will lock up tight and have to be trashed.

Andria

 

[Briandesimone]

I always found it harder to read the markings at the bottom of those syringes, so I tended to load extra & dispense exactly what I needed. Say you have a 1ml syringe, and you want 0.25ml of a flavoring. I'd load 0.5ml and dispense it down to 0.25...or load 1ml and dispense it down to 0.75. (Then dispense the excess back into the flavor bottle). That made it easier for me to measure really accurately.

I never thought of that. That's a great recommendation.

Sent from my SM-S120VL using Tapatalk

 

[Heabob]

I just buy Duda Diesel syringes from Amazon.

Do those rubber plungers not melt?

 

[RonJS]

For instance, you're mixing up a 10ml taster and you want to add .25 ml of a given flavor with a 1ml syringe, do you simply pull out .25 ml on the scale or do you allow for what's in the syringe?

For that amount, I just use drops. (5-16 depending on drop size)

Saves cleaning.

Ron
---
"You must understand that there is more than one path to the top of the mountain"- Miyamoto Musashi

 

[Lotus Insane]

I don't mix by weight, I mix by mass.

 

[brandon555]

Mixing liquid by weight may be one of the stupidest things I've ever heard of. .

Andria

How is it stupid? When I order bulk sodium hydroxide at work, I'm quoted in price per pound rather than price per gallon. If you know the specific gravity of the liquid you're working with, then weight is perfectly acceptable method of measuring out what you need.

 

[The Cromwell]

Do those rubber plungers not melt?

Not so far.
But I do not do Hot cinnamon or artificial banana flavorings.
I do use one with Isopropyl flushing things out and it does ok.

 

[The Cromwell]

I figure a needle holds maybe 1/4 drop?

 

[RonJS]

How is it stupid?

For home hobbyist high percent flavor mixers; I can totally understand why mixing by weight could be impractical....






Ron

---
"Truth is not what you want it to be; it is what it is, and you must bend to its power or live a lie."- Miyamoto Musashi

 

[kross8]

I agree. Syringes for me.

If I did large volumes I could see mixing by weight.
I do 120 ml batches.

I just measure out my flavorings, nic, etc into the bottle and fill the rest of the way with my PG/VG blend.
I measure my PG/VG blend into liter bottles with a measuring cup.

i make 500ml batches at a time,, i have 1 500ml measuring cup that came with my smoothy mixer, so i put 250vg in it first, then off to the side i have a 'shot glass' with ml markings.. i 'pour/syringe' all flavors into that 'cup',, when the cup is holding all of the flavors i pour it into the smoothy cup (already holding 250ml vg and top off the whole cup to 500 mls with pg,,,,,,,,(that smoothy cup actually holds more) then i hit the whole thing with the blender for a minute until it turns to white foam then let it settle down and pour the batch into a stainless steel water bottle. nicotine is never part of my bulk mixing,, i add that at point of use or a dedicated 90ml bottle of ejuice.

i use syringes for measuring the smaller flavors ratios',, and just pour straight into the shot glass for the larger ratio's. the whole process takes about 2 to 4 minutes for 500 ml's,,,,,,,,,,depends if the husband or dog is annoying me

 

[AndriaD]

How is it stupid? When I order bulk sodium hydroxide at work, I'm quoted in price per pound rather than price per gallon. If you know the specific gravity of the liquid you're working with, then weight is perfectly acceptable method of measuring out what you need.

I'm not a scientist. I don't have the first fucking clue what "specific gravity" even MEANS. When my son tried to explain some chemical things to me, I told him... a mole is a thing on your skin that might or might not need to be removed... or a critter that might or might not burrow in your yard (don't have 'em here in GA, the clay is too hard to get thru). I have no need to know any other meaning of that word.

I measure liquids with liquid measures, and solids by weight. PERIOD. It makes NO sense to measure liquids by weight, UNLESS you're a scientist and you have some need to do things science-y.

Andria

 

[jpasint]

I realize the best way to mix is by weight, but, like a lot of you here I don't have scales so I do what I can.

My question is, when you measure flavors, do you account for the flavoring that's in the needle itself, or do you just count what's showing on the syringe scale?

I’ve done some pretty thorough, nonscientific testing with very accurate syringes and a very accurate scale. I've come to the below conclusion.

You should only draw the plunger up to the ml desired. There is no need to account for anything since the air preceding the liquid being drawn into the syringe will also force any liquid in the needle out when you dispense.

Just make sure you have no leaks in the lure lock or elsewhere and that no vacuum or pressure state exists in the syringe. Best to use 12 or 14 gauge blunt tips for thicker flavors. Some don’t use any tips for VG.

My test measurements showed the syringe measuring method (using precision syringes) to be off by an average of only .003 grams when comparing weight to volume measurements using water as the test liquid.

 

[Cormic]

I'm new at this stuff myself, but I use syringes,scales or drops with pretty equal results. I have found it can be really helpful to cut a flavoring/nic with pg first if your dealing with low percentages and/or small batches. You have to acount for the extra pg if you want a very specific vg/pg ratio though. But small errors in measuring will be less of an error in actual flavoring as you will need to add whatever multiple you cut it by.

 

[MWorthington]

I really appreciate all the responses. I was trying to keep from sounding like a total loser and just parroted info I picked up from this thread: http://www.vapingunderground.com/threads/guide-to-mixing-by-weight.22891/

Really missed the mark on that one didn't I?

Since I only mix up 150-200 ml at a time it's good to know I've been doing ok along. I've been vaping strictly menthol all this time but I jthought I might like to try a few fruit flavors for a change. I can use the money I might have spent on scales to grab a few flavors.

 

[JuicyLucy]

I really appreciate all the responses. I was trying to keep from sounding like a total loser and just parroted info I picked up from this thread: http://www.vapingunderground.com/threads/guide-to-mixing-by-weight.22891/

Really missed the mark on that one didn't I?

Since I only mix up 150-200 ml at a time it's good to know I've been doing ok along. I've been vaping strictly menthol all this time but I jthought I might like to try a few fruit flavors for a change. I can use the money I might have spent on scales to grab a few flavors.

I haven't read that thread but....

One of my pet peeves is the advice that you need a scale for mixing. I have seen it stop or delay folks from trying DIY who can't afford the initial investment and I think it is a great disservice

I think it belongs in the category of "here is another way to mix that a lot of people like"

 

[AndriaD]

For that amount, I just use drops. (5-16 depending on drop size)

Saves cleaning.

Ron
---
"You must understand that there is more than one path to the top of the mountain"- Miyamoto Musashi

I had to stop trying to use drops, after conducting my own experiments: PG vs. VG, this bottle vs that dropper, etc -- there's simply too wide a disparity in how much a drop equals, depending on the medium, and on what you're dripping it from. 100% PG is something like 35-40 drops per ml; 100% VG is about 22-28 drops per ml, 50/50 is somewhere between, and any other ratio of PG/VG, who the hell knows. Dropper size is also a huge disparity.

When I stopped even trying to use drops, and got some 1ml syringes so I could measure down to hundredths of a ml, all my test recipes got a LOT better, and a LOT more repeatable. It's not a huge deal if you're mixing up 60ml or more, I often round to nearest tenth of a ml, but with the 5ml-10ml test mixes, hundredths of a ml is a big deal, and drop-size is a huge deal.

Andria

 

[AndriaD]

I haven't read that thread but....

One of my pet peeves is the advice that you need a scale for mixing. I have seen it stop or delay folks from trying DIY who can't afford the initial investment and I think it is a great disservice

I think it belongs in the category of "here is another way to mix that a lot of people like"

Totally agree, and is the reason I initially resisted the idea of measuring by weight, I couldn't afford a fancy scale that would be used for NOTHING else. I probably could afford it now, but it doesn't make the idea of measuring liquids by weight one bit more sensible.

Andria

 

[Heabob]

Since switching to a scale I haven't washed, or rinsed, any syringes.
Skipping those extra steps is totally worth it for me.
I fought against using a scale for a year because I did just fine with the measuring part.
But once trying out a scale I've never looked back.
Neither way is right or wrong as it just depends on personal preferences.

 

[AndriaD]

Since switching to a scale I haven't washed, or rinsed, any syringes.
Skipping those extra steps is totally worth it for me.
I fought against using a scale for a year because I did just fine with the measuring part.
But once trying out a scale I've never looked back.
Neither way is right or wrong as it just depends on personal preferences.

For me, now, it's more a question of, where the HELL would I put it??? My mods, batteries, chargers, and DIY stuff has already claimed a full quarter of my kitchen counter space; I can't add another thing to that mess, or it might reach out to what's left, which ain't enough already! It's all very well to say, well then, clean it up... Yeah, I could do that... and it would stay that way maybe a week. My housekeeping method is "chaos till I can't stand it anymore"... then it gets cleaned up, but entropy prevails, and it soon becomes again "chaos till I can't stand it anymore."

Andria

 

[Heabob]

For me, now, it's more a question of, where the HELL would I put it??? My mods, batteries, chargers, and DIY stuff has already claimed a full quarter of my kitchen counter space; I can't add another thing to that mess, or it might reach out to what's left, which ain't enough already! It's all very well to say, well then, clean it up... Yeah, I could do that... and it would stay that way maybe a week. My housekeeping method is "chaos till I can't stand it anymore"... then it gets cleaned up, but entropy prevails, and it soon becomes again "chaos till I can't stand it anymore."

Andria

Since I have my own Office/Computer Room/Library/Man cave/Vape station I don't have that problem.
I have my own messes here and there but they're organized messes and they are all mine.
Kind-of a "territorial thing"...

 

[AndriaD]

Since I have my own Office/Computer Room/Library/Man cave/Vape station I don't have that problem.
I have my own messes here and there but they're organized messes and they are all mine.
Kind-of a "territorial thing"...

Yep, the kitchen is my territory alright... but I do have to cook here, too.

Things will improve just slightly, soon; I'm moving my desk into my bedroom, which means the printer goes too, which is currently occupying the very end of one of the kitchen counters. When it's outta here, the microwave can be slid 18 inches to the left, which will open up that counter quite a bit. And the wi-fi on my printer might start working, once it's no longer right beside a microwave!

Andria

 

[Carmmond]

For me, now, it's more a question of, where the HELL would I put it??? My mods, batteries, chargers, and DIY stuff has already claimed a full quarter of my kitchen counter space; I can't add another thing to that mess, or it might reach out to what's left, which ain't enough already! It's all very well to say, well then, clean it up... Yeah, I could do that... and it would stay that way maybe a week. My housekeeping method is "chaos till I can't stand it anymore"... then it gets cleaned up, but entropy prevails, and it soon becomes again "chaos till I can't stand it anymore."

Andria

My scale ended up taking way less space than the syringes I was using by far..... just sayin

 

[AndriaD]

My scale ended up taking way less space than the syringes I was using by far..... just sayin

Why, were you using like 100 syringes? I use about 3 at a time... a 3ml, a 1ml, and a great big 10ml. When they wear out, I get some new ones from a ziplock under the counter.

But as I've mentioned, I'm sure that having filtered water right at the kitchen tap does make a difference for me; I can rinse my syringes very easily after each flavor. I usually fill 2 bowls of water; one of hot water, one of filtered water, and give each syringe about 3-5 flushes from each, after each flavor. It still takes barely half an hour to mix up 10 days' worth, though I "clean as I go".

Andria

 

[RonJS]

I had to stop trying to use drops, after conducting my own experiments: PG vs. VG, this bottle vs that dropper, etc -- there's simply too wide a disparity in how much a drop equals, depending on the medium, and on what you're dripping it from. 100% PG is something like 35-40 drops per ml; 100% VG is about 22-28 drops per ml, 50/50 is somewhere between, and any other ratio of PG/VG, who the hell knows. Dropper size is also a huge disparity.

When I stopped even trying to use drops, and got some 1ml syringes so I could measure down to hundredths of a ml, all my test recipes got a LOT better, and a LOT more repeatable. It's not a huge deal if you're mixing up 60ml or more, I often round to nearest tenth of a ml, but with the 5ml-10ml test mixes, hundredths of a ml is a big deal, and drop-size is a huge deal.

Andria

Except for the nic. amount, I'm not all that concerned if I perfectly nail the 50/50 pg/vg amounts I desire. I'll look at the (usually) pg based flavors level amounts of anticipated mixes and mix up a couple of 200ml-600ml bases. Since I'm most often using 18mg nic in the mix, I will often use beakers to measure these base's pg vg & nic. amounts. All I then have to do is add the flavors.

In the past, sometimes I would use a syringe or just drip it out of the flavor bottle. (if the mix or flavor amount was small) Because I feel the knowing drop size can be significant in obtaining the correct amount of flavor; I determine what the dispensing tool's drop size is. I also use a program where I can plug in the various drop sizes I will be using.

There are several reasons why using a scale can be beneficial. Far and away my #1 reason is that I am often a lazy bastard.
Unfortunately a scale has been no use for me when I dig through 4 boxes of flavor bottles trying to locate those i wish to use that day.

Ron
---
"I should get one of those signs that says "One of these days I'm gonna get organezized"- Travis Bickle

 

[wllmc]

I always found it harder to read the markings at the bottom of those syringes, so I tended to load extra & dispense exactly what I needed. Say you have a 1ml syringe, and you want 0.25ml of a flavoring. I'd load 0.5ml and dispense it down to 0.25...or load 1ml and dispense it down to 0.75. (Then dispense the excess back into the flavor bottle). That made it easier for me to measure really accurately.

did you ever get a scale? lol . I used to do kinda the same but I would pull up extra and just squirt it into the flavoring bottle to where i needed it. countless times I added way to much trying to squirt out a quarter ml

 

[wllmc]

Why, were you using like 100 syringes?

just a hundred lol.... I have had out or 20 or more for sure on any average mixing day considering most the stuff I make is usuallly 6 to 10 flavor combo vapes. then washing and drying and even if you lube all your stuff with PG it still falls apart pretty fast.... nothing is faster and cleaner that a scale though. ....... if I absolutley posotivley have to use syringes for instace a flavor in a large glass bottle, I use disposable pipettes and my scale. to each thier own though

 

[AndriaD]

just a hundred lol.... I have had out or 20 or more for sure on any average mixing day considering most the stuff I make is usuallly 6 to 10 flavor combo vapes. then washing and drying and even if you lube all your stuff with PG it still falls apart pretty fast.... nothing is faster and cleaner that a scale though. ....... if I absolutley posotivley have to use syringes for instace a flavor in a large glass bottle, I use disposable pipettes and my scale. to each thier own though

Yeah... like I said... 3 at a time, and I rinse each immediately after it's used, so I can use it again right away with another flavor. Mine last a while, at least a month each, some much longer. But then I only mix 60ml every 10 days or so. I don't have flavor OCD or ADD.

Andria

 

[Rabbit Slayer]

I realize the best way to mix is by weight, but, like a lot of you here I don't have scales so I do what I can.

Why not just buy a scale, they only cost like $10