Question for the Vet juice cooks

[Evertking]

I stopped smoking 2 packs a day a little over 2 years ago!! At first I was saving a ton of money with my aspire vape set up but as you know things change and you collect alot of gear and now find my self blowing through 15 bucks of juice a day!! I need, well have to cut this down! Wayyyyy down!
So, my question is..
If I toss out 80 bucks to get this DIY juice thing going will I save?
What do you think the savings are compared to buying retail?
I would be content with a juice close to dura smokes mint chill or halos kringles kurse.
Thanks.

 

[CalBlackSheep]

I'm no vet but I do know once you get the hang of it your $15 dollar a day habit will be more like $1 a day, maybe even less. It might take you a couple weeks to make something you're happy with. So I'd checkout Verde Valley Vapes (V3) website to get you by in the mean time. There's a great thread on here about them. I spent $40 for 250ml on there site.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

 

[Kinser]

I've been vaping for 3+ years now, mixing for almost 3. Personally I would not recommend purchasing a "DIY Kit". Reason being is the vendor, while probably going to include what you need, is almost certain to throw in a bunch of things you don't need. I'm going to assume you already have a dripping atty because you'll need to test the juice repeatedly while mixing.

Assuming you're going to be making small batches you will need nicotine base (if you use nicotine), VG USP grade, and PG USP grade. I recommend Wizard Labs for the nic, cheap nic can be "peppery" if they're sold out I use myfreedomsmokes. You will need flavors of course, shop around, buy small bottles if you can, Wizard Labs has TFA, Capella and some other flavor companies flavors available in 8mL sizes, perfect if you've not used a flavor before. (also the tiny vials are perfect for test batches later)

You will also need at least one of the following (and preferably more than one, but you don't need hundreds) syringes: 1mL, 3mL, 5mL and 10mL. And a beaker of at least 50mL.

Dropper bottles (though if you have saved any of your old bottles you may not actually have to buy them--my S.O thought I was a hoarder for a while). If you do save your bottles you'll want to wash them and try them thoroughly BEFORE using them to store juice. Hot soapy water works fine.

You will also need a notebook and pen (or other system) to make notes with as you mix. Some people use a phone app, some people use a computer program. I use a dollar store notebook--cause I find it the easiest way to take notes.

If you want to mix by weight you'll need a scale that measures to 1/100th of a gram.

You'll probably want gloves, but you can pick that up at your local CVS or Wallgreens. They have about 900 different kinds of exam gloves. Some people say this is a need, I say it is an option--of course I also say that people exaggerate the the dangers of nicotine.

 

[Huckleberried]

If I toss out 80 bucks to get this DIY juice thing going will I save?
What do you think the savings are compared to buying retail?
I would be content with a juice close to dura smokes mint chill or halos kringles kurse.

YES. You will save money.

Depending on how much you put into juice on a monthly basis, the savings will be huge. Halo 30mls run around $20 if memory serves. I can make well over 240ml for that. 30ml of juice in DIY is under $1, depending on what and how you're mixing. At many places, you get buy a 4oz bottle of premium 100mg nic for that price. 4oz of nic lasts me over a month, mixing for a few people. Maybe 2 months.

There's a recipe for Kringle's Curse in the Recipes section. http://vapingunderground.com/threads/hics-clone-of-halos-kringles-curse.1774/

This is only one small perspective. You would be very happily surprised at how much cheaper it is to DIY.

 

[Tumbleweed]

I just got started on DIY myself & am very happy at the prospect of saving a lot of money. I go through 4-5 tanks a day in my Crown & was spending a ton of money. There will still be a few I will buy from juice companies, but I can see my store-bought collection shrinking down to that number from the 40-50 I currently have. I've made 2 recipes so far & both have turned out really good. I just wished I wouldn't have waited so long to get into DIY.

 

[Huckleberried]

I just wished I wouldn't have waited so long to get into DIY.

This is one of the most popular phrases in the DIY area, LOL. I felt the same. I was trying to over-complicate it before I even started. Was surprised how easy it turned out to be.

 

[Tumbleweed]

I can't believe anyone as dumb as me can be such an over thinker.
I'm my own worst enemy!

 

[Heabob]

If I toss out 80 bucks to get this DIY juice thing going will I save?

Initial cost can be whatever you allow it to be, but the typical problem is getting a bunch of flavors that are wrong, bad, or just don't like.
It can take some time and more money to find the flavors/brands you like the best and there's always a "next order".
But if you plan a weekly, or monthly budget, you can then add more flavors, and other things along the way.
Certain brands cost like 3-4 dollars for 10ml, so maybe buy them in the smaller sample sizes, like 5ml I think, until you find the ones you like.
FW 10ml, TFA 10ml, can be had for less than 2 dollars, usually around 1.60 so it doesn't make much sense to buy smaller sizes IMO.
CAP comes in 13ml for around 2.50, or less at some places so it's not too bad.

1 Gal. PG 25.00
1 Gal. VG 25.00
240ml NIC 25.00 (estimated because I buy 120ml of 100mg and cut it to 50mg with PG, so I get twice the amount)

Initial cost can be high unless you buy smaller quantities, but it's also less economical long term.
But when you can make 30ml of your own for around a dollar, vs. 30ml of pre-made for 15-20 bucks or more, quite a difference.

ECX use code: UNDERGROUND10 for 10% off
BCV use code: VU6 for 6% off
Some things are excluded tho, I suspect the heavier stuff like PG & VG.

I don't like the Starter Kit's either as you get some things you may not ever use.

 

[lirruping]

speaking of my freedomsmokes.com, I ordered my initial DIY (everything but flavor, PG and VG) supplies from there and they have gloves, syringes, amber glass bottles (for dividing & storing the nic), 250ml (& other size) plastic bottles with yorker dispenser caps for nic base and/or PG and VG storage and nic.

If you buy a liter of nic along with that other stuff, it will probably put you in their 75 dollar + free ship zone. It's a lot of money, I know, and doesn't leave too much leftover from your original estimate for flavors, PG and VG.

Also, if you do it the way I did, you'll want also to buy ten or twenty 10ml flavors (20-60 bucks depending on what brands you buy) and a big bottle each of PG and VG. I get those either through essentialdepot.com or on amazon.com. searching for essential depot brand. They have a deal where for under 45- inc. shipping you'll get a gallon of each.

If you do it this way, you should be all set for at least a year and under $200 if my math is right--except for whatever additional flavors you'll undoubtedly find yourself wanting to purchase.

 

[lirruping]

I can't believe anyone as dumb as me can be such an over thinker.
I'm my own worst enemy!

I totally know this feeling. The cure? Just pick a way to begin and DO IT! Once you're started mixing, the rest will start to flow much more naturally. You'll definitely save lots of money and chances are your juice will be better than what you're used to!

EDIT: I thought you were the OP when I was responding to you, but now I've looked more carefully I see you already on your way

 

[Mattp169]

Every piece of advice you have received so far has been spot on

6-12cents a ml.
IT varie son certain factors like
how many flavors
what brand of nic
and HOW MUCH BULK DID YOU BUY

For me i Buy nicotine by the liter
i buy vg by the gallons
and flavors i buy in 30 or 60ml sizes usually

BUT YOUR NOT GONNA DO THAT to start you first DIY ORDER

step 1.
think of something simple to try
for me it was peach mango, which was my adv for 4 years before diy and is still my ADV
SO that is simple
I need 2 flavors

next step get the flavors a 100ml or so of vg/.pg premixed to what you are used to using
and say 30 ml or so af 100mg nic. WHY 100mg cuz its heape rin teh long run and your going to dilute it down one way or another

SO i shopped around on like 5 or 6 websites till I could find what I wanted all form one place for a good price. I ghot 3 different brand sof peach and 3 different brands of mango
That cost me about $70 for that order

once i had all that I used those syringes you get free at the pharmacy or vet for measuring childrens or pets liquid medicine.
I washed out old bottles to mix in

SO that was a pain using those things to measure such minute amounts of flavor. I mean i was needing to add .12 ml of peach or whatever. But i made it through it
And made 3 differnet peach mango flavors to try

THEY ALL SUCKED

SO read more posts on the DIY forum
posted what must have seemed like the dumbest questions
ordered a different brand of flavors and spent another $50
and 3 or 4 tries later using different ratios of the flavors BOOM!
I mixed up what has become my new ADV.

SO I wasted osme money and have a bunch of flavors I would never use. Thats ok my daughter uses them to make chapstick, and flavored water and what have you.

Then I decided measuring using drops, syringes etc was PITA and spent $20 on a nice little scale and use that to mix juice
I bought a liter of nicotine and 2 gallons of VG
that liter of nic and 2 gallons of VG is enough to last me about 2-3 years and cost me like $175
I buy the 2 different peach flavors and mango flavor I use for that recipe in 60 ml bottles for $6.50 each
SO for $39 in flavoring costs I can make 6 liters of that flavor

it gets cheaper once you have recipes you know you like. BUt trying out recipes and buying all the different flavors to keep trying out new recipes is what gets expensive. I do not try many recipes out

I have 1 reicpe I buy the flavor premied for me from mamaj's cuz it has lke 8 or 9 flavors in it and Im lazy
my adv is 3 flavors
sometimes i add 3 more things (vanilla,pear, and cream to it for a change)
I have my hot apple which is 3 flavors
I have my rootbeer which is 1 flavor

I have $100 worth of stuff I may never use. Another $100 I burned through trying stuff and will ever buy again
But I am a happy camper now. I got several different things I really like
And it costs me like 8 cents or so a ml I vape
and I vape between 10-20ml a day

 

[SteveS45]

I started on DIY this Tuesday with the Liquid Barn Starter kit. Everything you need to get started and you pick 10 flavor. 500/500 VG/PG 250 ML 48MG Nicotine comes with it. I now have 4 different DIY FLavors sitting next to me for 120 MLs of stock. I am just getting started so taking it slow. Actually vaping up a storm so gone through a few ML's.

Best advice, keep it simple and some of the single flavors that Liquid Barn offers are nice. Orange Banana was a big surprise!

 

[SteveS45]

Half the price of a Starter Kit can be blown buying a couple of e-Liquids that just suck! So dive in!

 

[soulshine]

Before you even make any kind of investment at all, READ. Read the DIY tips/tricks/tutorial section. There are PLENTY of posts that will answer any kind of question that you will come up with. It will have links to all of the vendors that everybody uses for PG/VG/Nic/Bottles/Syringes/Eliquid Calculators and anything else you might need.

Next, read through the recipes section. You will see that the vast majority of the recipes are primarily made with Flavour Art flavors (there are some others here and there but you will notice that it is mostly Flavour Art). Find 3 or 4 recipes that you want to try and order those EXACT flavors. When you receive them, make small batches and learn what you like. Using other people's recipes at first accomplishes 3 things. It gets you familiar with "the process", it allows you to get hands on experience with how flavors work together and most importantly allows you to achieve success quickly. The worst thing that you can possibly do is go order a bunch of flavors thinking "oh I'll just throw a little of this and some of that in there and it will be WONDERFUL". It'll discourage you because you will be making a TON of crap juice and then you'll be posting every single day about "I don't know what I'm doing, here is the crap that I bought, can somebody please tell me what to do with it??". If you doubt that statement, just read some of the daily posts in any of the DIY sections.

DIY will save you plenty in the long run. I was one of those people that I'm warning you not to be so I learned the hard way...by wasting A LOT of money initially. I'm sure many others will tell you that they had the same experience since many of us started DIYing before VU brought us together. There is a wealth of information here, all you have to do is read it.

 

[SteveS45]

Soulshine would you mind my asking what happened that you needed to learn the hard way? I did a ton of reading and asking questions. Many on that other forum with some helpful answers and some stupid ass statements that makes you want to punch something or someone! I have not had a failed batched so far because I am keeping it simple to start.

 

[soulshine]

Soulshine would you mind my asking what happened that you needed to learn the hard way? I did a ton of reading and asking questions. Many on that other forum with some helpful answers and some stupid ass statements that makes you want to punch something or someone! I have not had a failed batched so far because I am keeping it simple to start

Well you did it the way that it SHOULD be done. Most new DIYers unfortunately don't. All I seem to see anymore is "I'm new and don't know anything....give me all the answers" threads. This OP was not trying to do that, he/she was just asking if the savings was there to be had. The downside to all of this interaction is that plenty of people will happily tell you what works for them, but that doesn't mean that what works for me will or should work for everybody. My point to the OP was that yes, the savings is there. You only have to educate yourself with the general knowledge that is so abundant here and to approach it wisely without going overboard. Hell not only did I do that with eliquid, I went through quite the phase of "buy everything that's new and shiny" with equipment too...lol It was just a word of caution.

 

[soulshine]

Ok, I don't know what happened..I was just trying to get rid of that huge picture. Here is my response to you Steve:

Well you did it the way that it SHOULD be done. Most new DIYers unfortunately don't. All I seem to see anymore is "I'm new and don't know anything....give me all the answers" threads. This OP was not trying to do that, he/she was just asking if the savings was there to be had. The downside to all of this interaction is that plenty of people will happily tell you what works for them, but that doesn't mean that what works for me will or should work for everybody. My point to the OP was that yes, the savings is there. You only have to educate yourself with the general knowledge that is so abundant here and to approach it wisely without going overboard. Hell not only did I do that with eliquid, I went through quite the phase of "buy everything that's new and shiny" with equipment too...lol It was just a word of caution.[/QUOTE]

 

[SteveS45]

That is the old YMMV

 

[SteveS45]

So what exactly went wrong with your first DIY batches? I am curious because hearing what mistakes you made might just stop me from making the same if I decide to get too creative. I also cook so i know that just a pinch too much of one spice can ruin a fantastic meal.

 

[soulshine]

So what exactly went wrong with your first DIY batches? I am curious because hearing what mistakes you made might just stop me from making the same if I decide to get too creative. I also cook so i know that just a pinch too much of one spice can ruin a fantastic meal.

Basically, I thought it was something any monkey could do. Take a little of this, mix it with a little of that, and hell I'm ready to start my own ejuice company! LOL Really, that is the mentality of MANY new DIYers. Once I realize I had absolutely NO idea what I was doing, I decided to actually try to figure it out on my own. That prompted me to read about the experience of others, to going back to square one and find recipes that might help me find some success to keep me motivated. I came here and started following the recipe thread. I discovered many of the talented mixers here like HIC, Wllmc, Squonk and many many others. Then I realized I didn't have to reinvent the wheel. I had all the information I needed right here in the DIY forums. Now, through the "osmosis" of making the recipes of others, I understand how many of the flavors that I like interact and have tried my own recipes. So yeah, if I could go back to the beginning, especially if I could start here at VU, what I outlined in my post is exactly the way I would choose to start. It would definitely have saved me a lot of money and wasted juice if I had.

 

[SteveS45]

See what I ran into was I had all the knowledge but no practical experience and tried to get some tips on that other forum and got a few helpful suggestions but also ran into the most obnoxious a-holes who could not answer a direct question. If I ask what percentage you use for a tobacco do not tell me about all the various tobaccos and additional flavors. Say I started with this and moved up incrementally to here using this brand. Period done question answered!

 

[soulshine]

Well again, that's why I'm so grateful for all of the generous people here at VU. Most of the people who are kind enough to post recipes will post with with %'s. Not only that, if you have a question, they will usually be happy to reply in the thread or respond to a PM. I mean, it's not the only way to learn. It's just what worked for me that allowed me to start seeing those savings you hear about when you start vaping, but aren't so apparent once you actually start. If that makes any sense.

 

[SteveS45]

With the experience I had trying to get help to get started I am more than will to try even though I am only into DIY with 120 Mls so far. But to have 4 successful batches and not toss in the toilet recipes I think I am off to a good start. I do follow the old saying though.

 

[Heabob]

I just wouldn't recommend new DIY'ers to start with "off the wall" brands like ELiquidBarn.
Unless you know specifically what brands they use.
Or LA, for that matter, as they will surely be asking what's wrong, or how much to use of this flavor, or that flavor.
Which we get anyway, even with the well known brands, but at least we can offer up some better help & ideas.

Plus very few, if any, recipes are posted here using brand X flavorings.

 

[SteveS45]

I hope you don't mean Liquid Barn of you do then please provide more details of why you said off the wall.

 

[Heabob]

I hope you don't mean Liquid Barn of you do then please provide more details of why you said off the wall.

Sorry about the typo, but yes, that's what I was referring to.
Nothing off the wall said tho.
First off: Kit's are really not a good idea for beginners IMO.
Much less, those that are using unknown brands of flavorings.
Fine to try out once you have 200 of the "name brand" flavors and many good recipes to make first.

I started on DIY this Tuesday with the Liquid Barn Starter kit. Everything you need to get started and you pick 10 flavor. 500/500 VG/PG 250 ML 48MG Nicotine comes with it. I now have 4 different DIY FLavors sitting next to me for 120 MLs of stock. I am just getting started so taking it slow. Actually vaping up a storm so gone through a few ML's.
Best advice, keep it simple and some of the single flavors that Liquid Barn offers are nice. Orange Banana was a big surprise!

Nothing wrong if you like them, but not much help from those around here that don't use the same brand.
This is why I wouldn't recommend this kit for a new DIY'er as things can be frustrating enough without adding more unknowns.
Sorry, I don't mean to sound like a jerk, but just offering my opinion to a another new DIY'er.

But you've had some success with them and that's all that matters in the end.
Keeping it simple is a good standard tho, spot on, especially for beginners to DIY.
I'd just suggest you should try some of the other brands too, which I'm sure you will eventually anyway.

 

[SteveS45]

Sop you have no proof of your statement. And your attitude towards my POLITE Request was uncalled for.

 

[Heabob]

Sop you have no proof of your statement. And your attitude towards my POLITE Request was uncalled for.

No proof?
How many recipes have you seen posted here using that brand X flavoring?
What brands are they actually using then?

Attitude?
Not at all, just stating my opinion, take it or leave it.

Polite?
Lol, don't get all bent outta shape, I'm not picking on you, yet.

Uncalled for?
You asked, I answered...

Do you work for Liquid Barn?

Starting to sound like another MaGoo thread.

 

[Heabob]

My apologies to the OP for trashing up your thread.

 

[SteveS45]

No, I do not work for Liquid Barn but I am very happy with my purchase. Have you actually used the Liquid Barn line of products? Like their premium flavors made in their Diacetyl Free Lab? Do the flavors you use all have a FDS?

Liquid Barn's selection of Premium Flavor Extracts.
Flavors engineered for eLiquid and vaping.

 

[Chrispdx]

I hope you don't mean Liquid Barn of you do then please provide more details of why you said off the wall.

Off the wall means...they are kinda sorta maybe pre mixing stuff for you. They don't normally tell you what they put in it. It's meant to take the hassle away from researching flavors and recipies and for someone kinda sort mix and go. But you don't easily have a choice to increase decrease flavor profiles to taste. So often your left with wanting more of something but no where to go.

This is the main reason why veteran diy'ers recommend picking 6 recpies you hope you will like and purchase from there. Those recipies can range from simple to complex (2 flavors to 10)...that mix of those ingredients is what you bought from liquid barn in a general sense. However, now that you have seperate ingredients when you say, "hmmmm I want more cream" you have cream without everything else.

 

[Heabob]

No, I do not work for Liquid Barn but I am very happy with my purchase. Have you actually used the Liquid Barn line of products? Like their premium flavors made in their Diacetyl Free Lab? Do the flavors you use all have a FDS?

Liquid Barn's selection of Premium Flavor Extracts.
Flavors engineered for eLiquid and vaping.

Nope, I use FA, TFA, FW, CAP, INW, FW, Hangsen, DIYFS, & a couple of NF & LA.
What's an FDS, don't care about bad stuff cause it's still safer than using tobacco.
Those that want clean flavors use FA, and pick out the other safe versions from the other brands.

I certainly won't try Liquid Barn flavors as I've got 380 flavors from well known companies and am quite content.
Why would I even want to, it just doesn't make much sense to me.

I'm glad your happy with your purchase and I see so many others here have such rave reviews about them too.

 

[SteveS45]

Quality

At Liquid Barn, we only carry the best products in the industry. In a market where there is a flood of low quality products such as industrial grade compounds, and low quality nicotine, having a reputable supplier that is transparent is essential.
Liquid Barn provides Material Data Safety Sheets, Certificate of Analysis Sheets, & more on each products page. To view these documents, go to the product page you want information about, and click on the icons located below each products description.

 

[SteveS45]

When you actually use Liquid barn products then I will feel you are qualified to criticize them. But There is an FDS for every single flavor.

 

[AmandaD]

Flavor Art also provide MDS sheets and are transparent. That said, use whatever concentrates you like - I use mainly Flavor Art simply because there are so many great recipes for their flavors, and I find them to be excellent.

 

[SteveS45]

Well since I have not tried them or used them before I can't offer an opinion or review on them. When I do then I will feel I am qualified to offer a review.

 

[Huckleberried]

I, myself, keep lots of different manufacturers of flavorings on hand. It's simply nice to see that more and more of them are jumping on board with keeping their customers well informed, rather than the very few of them that used to, or even still (don't) do. I like being informed of what I'm buying, even if I happen to choose a flavoring that might have a miniscule of the "bad stuff" that many of us would like to keep away from.

I'm not gonna argue who is best. We all have our own preference when it comes to what we buy. The fact of the matter is, today we have the option to vape safer and to stay quit from smoking.

 

[SteveS45]

Huck I am not arguing who is best I only tried to voice my opinion of MY PURCHASE to a New DIY'er. But many times those with no first hand experience with a product seem to consider themselves an expert. There is nothing better than first hand experience at least in my opinion.

 

[SteveS45]

One thing I do not understand is why people who did not purchase the Started Kit say you get things you will never use? Well I do have a Graduated Cylinder and a Graduated beaker I have not used yet and a couple of syringes unopened but those are reserved for the flavors I have not used yet. Where is all this stuff I supposedly paid for but will never use?

 

[Huckleberried]

Huck I am not arguing who is best I only tried to voice my opinion of MY PURCHASE to a New DIY'er.

Yep, I agree. I tell ya, we DIYers are pretty passionate people, aren't we? LOL!! I do have my faves, too, but I simply try to stay open to what I hear is good. I suppose that's party of the whole experience, just to keep on learning. If I'm not teachable, I'm dead.

 

[SteveS45]

The only people who have knocked what I just purchased and got me started on my DIY creations have not purchased the kit. So I can't imagine where they got the information from. I do know that originally the company did not let you choose the 10 flavors but they listened to their customers and changed it so you select what you want and what you get. Everything you need in one package to get started DIY'ing. Even the manuals which I will admit I did not RTFM.

So far have 120 MLs of successful creations with NO wasted mixes.

 

[Huckleberried]

So far have 120 MLs of successful creations with NO wasted mixes.

That's a win no matter who ya are. I can't begin to tell ya how much juice I've... not done so well with, LOL. But once you find you groove, it's heaven.

 

[SteveS45]

I actually thought there was something missing from my order so I called the phone number and spoke to a person after 1 ring! Nothing was missing I just did not see it in the package.

 

[SteveS45]

That's a win no matter who ya are. I can't begin to tell ya how much juice I've... not done so well with, LOL. But once you find you groove, it's heaven.

So many thread posters try to make it out to be some complicated procedure requiring a PHD and a Chemical Engineering background. Sure creating some copy of a companies Premium e-Liquid might be hard but start out simple and then you get creative. You do not just start off making an Herd Crusted Rack of Lamb without knowing how to turn on the over first.

 

[Chrispdx]

Beep bop boop. I think the part we are missing here is the reference to the threads that have discussed some of these topics in super great detail. Especially in the guides/tip/tricks/tutorial section.

There you will find properly typed explanations why to do a kit vs not. How mixing by weight reduces the needs for extra mixing supplies. And so on.

The benefits to these threads is seeing my dumb butt asking some of the same questions. . Or the info was there before I started DIY. And thankfully at that time having a whole bunch of very respected mixers like (spelling errors coming) headbob, HIC, amanda, and like 10 others. Venice is why many of them are also sticky threads.

 

[SteveS45]

What really missing the OP getting an answer will her $80 actually be a savings. In my humble opinion am emphatic

YES

 

[Huckleberried]

What really missing the OP getting an answer will her $80 actually be a savings. In my humble opinion am emphatic

YES

Nu uh!!! I said yes way up there ^^^ Wanna rumble??

 

[SteveS45]

Mixing up up another new batch, this time it's Rainbow Sherbet so add 30 MLs to the the total even though I have not taste tested it yet I am sure it will be good!

 

[Huckleberried]

Sounds good. I hope you do enjoy it.

 

[SteveS45]

Smells just like it does in the freezer. The flavoring was so potent and it was hard to tell what it was going to smell like when mixed. I can't wait for a taste test in a little while. Need to let it rest for a bit before I taste it.