Seeking advice regarding how to increase the vapour from my Troll V2, 22mm RDA.

[µDavid]

Hello.

I have been vaping for a few month now and I have completely abandoned Clearomizers, I now use only RDAs and I also have a RDTA but it was some time ago that I used it. I had thought that I would always be using my Cubis tank or some other similar tank for when I went outside and such due to the non-leaking design of those things. But after having stumbled into the RDA world I have never even touched my Cubis again, what is a little leak risk in comparison to having a awesome RDA instead?...

Just to say I am using a Cuboid MOD with batteries rated as 3100mA/h 40A peak discharge(pretty sure that is pulse-discharge, which as far as I have seen might be sort of applicable to vaping since most pulse-discharge definitions I have read have specified the pulse duration as over 1 minute, but during vaping you are never discharging for so long, but then you are also most certainly violating the resting time duration after an discharge)

But I have had some problems getting the clouds I want, I see people online on youtube and such using the same tanks as me but they appear to be producing much larger clouds than I have ever been able to do. I do understand that you have to learn in order to some day actually know what you are doing(relating to producing vapour, not safety) but I have reached an impasse.

My favourite tank to use is the Troll V2(22mm version) which for me is the best RDA that I have found(I really love vaping with Kennedy V4 but it is such an pain in the ass to drip or refill it since you have to pay attention to those air holes so no juice is flowing into them), I have with this and other RDAs been trying out winding Clapton-Coils, my smallest was a Kanthal 0,25mm centre wire and an Nichrome 0,12mm outer wire, and the largest was using both for centre and outer wire Kanthal 0,7mm("those coils where huge" would seem like an understatement) and a lot of sizes in between those. I tried both Kanthal claptons and SS316 claptons and now I have stopped buying SS316 wire since I am running my Cuboid in POWER mode.

I have also stopped winding claptons because I haven't experienced any results in comparison to single strand 0,4mm(AWG 26) Kanthal that would justify the enormous increase in cost that inevitable follows clapton-coils, and right now I am using a quad-coil build made with 13 turns of 0,4mm(AWG 26) Kanthal with a inner-diameter of 2,5mm which ends up as a resulting resistance of 390mOhm(I know for a fact that the display isn't that accurate since I have been comparing it with the measurement on my LCR-meter which have an accuracy that is below +-1%, but I rarely any more have the motivation to fetch my LCR-meter to get a within +-1% measurement but it is at least close to 0,39Ohm) and depending on the juice recipe I am vaping I use that build on 70 or 80W.

Can any one suggest what I could do to increase the vapour production with my Cuboid + Troll V2?

I can't think of anything to do different but others do create quit a bit larger clouds from what I have seen, at least 50% more.
Oh and I am always wicking with Scottish roll style wicks, I have tried ordinary wicks and wicks with synthetic cotton but nothing beats tightly rolled Scottish roll's.

I am vaping juices containing PG/VG = 30/70 @ 6mg/ml nicotine.

Maybe I shouldn't give up on clapton-coils?

Regards

 

[HondaDavidson]

First it is safe to use stainless in regular regulated modes as well as unregulated and TC.

Second if you are comparing your clouds to those in vids.... you will always loose. Ever heard the expression "the camera adds 10lbs"... it also makes clouds look bigger.

I think you are building both too high in ohm range and to much mass vs surface area in the coils. Your building too slow and cool a coil. Model some builds in steamengine... get the flux up and the capacity down

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk

 

[SirRichardRear]

the cloud production will pretty much be dependent on your build. You sound like you have some good experience already so just play around a bit.

 

[µDavid]

I had previously visited steam engine but I had not looked very close at it's calculators, but now having done so I am quite puzzled.

I didn't know that flux was a concept applied to other things than magnetics where I have dealt with it before, although as I think about it why wouldn't it be applied elsewhere.

In the beginning I used mostly SS316 material but as I begun using RDAs I experienced that the heating of the coils did vary so much that I clearly felt it, which is why I have since then chosen Kanthal. But I am beginning to see some problems with Kanthal due to the fact that it's resistance is quite a bit higher than say SS316, oh I should state that I am vaping in POWER mode.

Is there any two materials that I could mix to even out the unevenness(I don't actually know what is happening apart from the fact that it is due to the materials resistance coefficient is changing with temperature), in electronics design you from time to time come across circuits where someone have countered the drifting effect of a negative temperature coefficient(such as the one found is some zener diodes) by inserting a silicon diode(one which has a positive temperature coefficient) in series with the zener diode, and the designer has chosen the zener diode and the siicon diode very carefully to ensure that they exhibits the same amount of voltage change due to temperature only of opposite polarity.
Is there materials to do something along those lines with vaping heating coils?

Do anyone agree that there may be a problem with Kanthal wires due to the high resistance?

Do you think it could be possible to generate more vapour with a well designed dual-coil build than what vapour I am generating with my currently poorly designed quad-coil build?

Because the fact that I am using a quad-coil build brings limitations the the wire gauge I can use, of course I could use a lesser inner diameter for the coils but I am quite fond of 2,5mm(~0.98inch) inner diameter(I have gotten used to how to roll Scottish rolls for that diameter, by the way I recently decreased the time I need to spend rolling Scottish Rolls considerably by talking to my local vape shop and asked to be allowed to buy the largest peace's of cotton they have. Ordinarily the sell peace's that are ~5cm*6cm(~1.97in*2.36in) large but they cut those out from ~26cm*26cm(~10.2in*10.2in) peace's so they sold be a couple of those large sheets, then I use a custom made board of plywood covered with a cloth to roll on and a twisted thick gauge SS316 wire as a tool to roll the cotton around, a tool that when the roll is rolled can be dragged out of the roll by twisting it back and forth while pulling it out. It can be a little annoying to get the tool out if the rolled cotton but I would really recommend this style of rolling Scottish roll even if you do it with ordinary small cotton sheets it is so very much quicker and less of a pain to twist together to ss316 wires and roll the cotton around that.
With that I can roll 1 Scottish Roll that is about 20cm(~7.9inch) long and then I cut that up in several Scottish Rolls If anyone would try this I should say that when I have gotten the rolled cotton off of the wire tool I then use the palm of my hand to roll the cotton in one and the same direction over and over again to compress the cotton until it is nice and packed with the thickness you need).

I have more to write about this but I want to thoroughly go through steam-engine first so this will have to suffice for now, kind of a long post anyway.

 

[RatRacer]

I had previously visited steam engine but I had not looked very close at it's calculators, but now having done so I am quite puzzled.

I didn't know that flux was a concept applied to other things than magnetics where I have dealt with it before, although as I think about it why wouldn't it be applied elsewhere.

In the beginning I used mostly SS316 material but as I begun using RDAs I experienced that the heating of the coils did vary so much that I clearly felt it, which is why I have since then chosen Kanthal. But I am beginning to see some problems with Kanthal due to the fact that it's resistance is quite a bit higher than say SS316, oh I should state that I am vaping in POWER mode.

Is there any two materials that I could mix to even out the unevenness(I don't actually know what is happening apart from the fact that it is due to the materials resistance coefficient is changing with temperature), in electronics design you from time to time come across circuits where someone have countered the drifting effect of a negative temperature coefficient(such as the one found is some zener diodes) by inserting a silicon diode(one which has a positive temperature coefficient) in series with the zener diode, and the designer has chosen the zener diode and the siicon diode very carefully to ensure that they exhibits the same amount of voltage change due to temperature only of opposite polarity.
Is there materials to do something along those lines with vaping heating coils?

Do anyone agree that there may be a problem with Kanthal wires due to the high resistance?

Do you think it could be possible to generate more vapour with a well designed dual-coil build than what vapour I am generating with my currently poorly designed quad-coil build?

Because the fact that I am using a quad-coil build brings limitations the the wire gauge I can use, of course I could use a lesser inner diameter for the coils but I am quite fond of 2,5mm(~0.98inch) inner diameter(I have gotten used to how to roll Scottish rolls for that diameter, by the way I recently decreased the time I need to spend rolling Scottish Rolls considerably by talking to my local vape shop and asked to be allowed to buy the largest peace's of cotton they have. Ordinarily the sell peace's that are ~5cm*6cm(~1.97in*2.36in) large but they cut those out from ~26cm*26cm(~10.2in*10.2in) peace's so they sold be a couple of those large sheets, then I use a custom made board of plywood covered with a cloth to roll on and a twisted thick gauge SS316 wire as a tool to roll the cotton around, a tool that when the roll is rolled can be dragged out of the roll by twisting it back and forth while pulling it out. It can be a little annoying to get the tool out if the rolled cotton but I would really recommend this style of rolling Scottish roll even if you do it with ordinary small cotton sheets it is so very much quicker and less of a pain to twist together to ss316 wires and roll the cotton around that.
With that I can roll 1 Scottish Roll that is about 20cm(~7.9inch) long and then I cut that up in several Scottish Rolls If anyone would try this I should say that when I have gotten the rolled cotton off of the wire tool I then use the palm of my hand to roll the cotton in one and the same direction over and over again to compress the cotton until it is nice and packed with the thickness you need).

I have more to write about this but I want to thoroughly go through steam-engine first so this will have to suffice for now, kind of a long post anyway.

Another issue you may be facing if you are using a Cuboid, is that it has a 25A output limit, so you may be getting throttled.

 

[SirRichardRear]

I had previously visited steam engine but I had not looked very close at it's calculators, but now having done so I am quite puzzled.

I didn't know that flux was a concept applied to other things than magnetics where I have dealt with it before, although as I think about it why wouldn't it be applied elsewhere.

In the beginning I used mostly SS316 material but as I begun using RDAs I experienced that the heating of the coils did vary so much that I clearly felt it, which is why I have since then chosen Kanthal. But I am beginning to see some problems with Kanthal due to the fact that it's resistance is quite a bit higher than say SS316, oh I should state that I am vaping in POWER mode.

Is there any two materials that I could mix to even out the unevenness(I don't actually know what is happening apart from the fact that it is due to the materials resistance coefficient is changing with temperature), in electronics design you from time to time come across circuits where someone have countered the drifting effect of a negative temperature coefficient(such as the one found is some zener diodes) by inserting a silicon diode(one which has a positive temperature coefficient) in series with the zener diode, and the designer has chosen the zener diode and the siicon diode very carefully to ensure that they exhibits the same amount of voltage change due to temperature only of opposite polarity.
Is there materials to do something along those lines with vaping heating coils?

Do anyone agree that there may be a problem with Kanthal wires due to the high resistance?

Do you think it could be possible to generate more vapour with a well designed dual-coil build than what vapour I am generating with my currently poorly designed quad-coil build?

Because the fact that I am using a quad-coil build brings limitations the the wire gauge I can use, of course I could use a lesser inner diameter for the coils but I am quite fond of 2,5mm(~0.98inch) inner diameter(I have gotten used to how to roll Scottish rolls for that diameter, by the way I recently decreased the time I need to spend rolling Scottish Rolls considerably by talking to my local vape shop and asked to be allowed to buy the largest peace's of cotton they have. Ordinarily the sell peace's that are ~5cm*6cm(~1.97in*2.36in) large but they cut those out from ~26cm*26cm(~10.2in*10.2in) peace's so they sold be a couple of those large sheets, then I use a custom made board of plywood covered with a cloth to roll on and a twisted thick gauge SS316 wire as a tool to roll the cotton around, a tool that when the roll is rolled can be dragged out of the roll by twisting it back and forth while pulling it out. It can be a little annoying to get the tool out if the rolled cotton but I would really recommend this style of rolling Scottish roll even if you do it with ordinary small cotton sheets it is so very much quicker and less of a pain to twist together to ss316 wires and roll the cotton around that.
With that I can roll 1 Scottish Roll that is about 20cm(~7.9inch) long and then I cut that up in several Scottish Rolls If anyone would try this I should say that when I have gotten the rolled cotton off of the wire tool I then use the palm of my hand to roll the cotton in one and the same direction over and over again to compress the cotton until it is nice and packed with the thickness you need).

I have more to write about this but I want to thoroughly go through steam-engine first so this will have to suffice for now, kind of a long post anyway.

It really depends on what you are trying to accomplish in your build. There is nothing wrong with kenthal by any means. It's resistance is higher then other wires, but it isn't "high" by any means. For example with 24 guage and since you are building a quad coil with 6 wraps and an ID of 3mm you would be around .15 I don't see how anyone could consider that high? even with a dual coil you would be around .3 with 6 wraps of it. How low are you looking to go?

As far as mixing wire types, I've been playing around with it, but haven't been able to come up with anything conclusive so I'm not going to give any advice on that. Today I'm vaping on a twisted mix of Nife48, SS430, and Kenthal A1

As far as the coil amount, the answer is yes. Even back in the days I could generate a ton of vapor with a single kenthal coil then I've seen people do with 4 poorly built coils. More isn't always better. I can build a single 3 wrap fused clapton in my aeronaut that will kick the ass of many 4 coil builds i seen. It's really subjective, but in reality you don't need a bunch of coils to generate vapor. not anymore with all the fancy coil wire we have access to now. You did before becuase there wasn't many options other then kenthal wire in various gauges. there wasn't claptons, fused claptons, tigers, aliens etc. now those wires are easily available to everyone

Also when you wick, don't pack it too tight

 

[µDavid]

When I say high resistance that was only relative, I have not been using quad-coil builds for long and the most recent build, the one I am using today is a dual notch coil and I am using it in temp mode. First I tried to use it in power mode and it worked great at first but very soon it started to taste burnt, but in temp mode it has worked out quite well.
Though the taste has diminished in comparison to quad-coil builds.
But I am quite happy with it anyway because previously with my quad-coil builds I had to adjust the airflow so that it was quite low, I would say that it was somewhere in between lung hit amount and mouth-lung hit amount so that I drew vapour straight down my lungs but not fully and then afterwards inhaled as in a mouth-lung hit. But with notch coils I can adjust the airflow into a much larger flow which is really nice.
The only down-side is that I have begun develop a vanilla type juice and it would be nice with more flavour, as I wrote that I remembered that I have a Monkey King RDA that I have lent to a friend that I had planned to get back in order to use it for sampling my juices since it is built for taste(or so I have been told) and it is very easy and quick to change wicks.

But back to the coils, I feel as if I am missing something or simply that I am inexperienced enough to not really understand what it is all about.
I got somewhat confused when I visited steam-engine's MOD calculator, first of all that lead me to discover Cuboids 25A limit although I am not able to get it to deliver more than 24,4A. So when my quad-coil build(made with bought fused clapton-coils of 0,6Ohm each which equals 0,16Ohm on the display, theoretically it's 0,15Ohm) the maximum voltage was 4V. And I don't understand how I get the steam-engine MOD calculator to tell me the optimal resistance, it seemed to show the optimal value according to what value I set it too.

On ebay you can find boxes with 6pc of 8 different coils, I bought one of those so I can test clapton-coils, fused clapton-coils, alien clapton-coils, twisted coils and a couple of more kinds. After having been winding my own clapton-coils I came to believe that it could be worth it to buy pre-made coils if I can find a coil which I am happy with, the cost isn't that much higher than the cost for the wire and I have wind enough coils for a few years(I have been winding inductors for years)

I also plan to buy one of these, they look like them could be awesome.

I have been advised to roll my Scottish rolls as tight as I can and it seems to work out nicely, the notch coils I have came delivered with a peace of cotton in it and I tried that but I guess I have come to be used to Scottish roll because I couldn't predict at all when the cotton was beginning to get chard and hurt my throat.

I don't know if I have written anything that leads the discussion forward but I have lost my train of thought but I'll return soon.